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I've have a set of XM 481 rims built up on Tairin hubs since September and the other day I managed to put a couple of pretty sizeable dents into the rear when I came over a blind crest that turned out to be hiding a gap - I pulled for it at the last minute but cased it pretty hard. The wheel holds air but the rim is quite dinged up with a decent flat spot.
I swapped to this wheel set from some lighter duty carbon eThirteen wheels primarily because I was sick of constantly snapping spokes and I was hoping for a bit more set and forget durability. In the short term I plan to true the wheel up and keep riding. The wheel builder (Ryan builds wheels) has a great warranty policy and he'll replace the rim for me at trade pricing but I feel like I probably need to look at a more burly rim.
I could go for an EX 511 but I'm wondering if I'll end up in a similar situation down the line. Another option I'm considering is shelling out for some We Are One union rims at £257 each. I never had an issue with my old carbon rims beyond broken spokes and the we are one warranty would replace the rim for free if it ever did break.
Basically, is it reasonable to expect a wheelset of whatever material to take the occasional big whack and keep on going? Am I going to get any better durability out of a burly carbon rim compared to an EX 511?
Basically, is it reasonable to expect a wheelset of whatever material to take the occasional big whack and keep on going?
Not really. If you **** any rim into a solid lump of rock with lowish tyre pressures then there's every chance it'll be damaged.
XM481 is a decent all mountain sort of rim - I’ve got quite a few and have never dented any of them.
That said if you’ve properly cased a gap then I’m not surprised you’ve damaged it. I’d keep the 481 on the front but go either ex511 or fr560 / fr541 on the rear if you are hard on wheels.
I’ve not run carbon mtb rims - but given the cost they’d have to be bloody amazing to be worth it.
This is why Rimpact, Cushcore etc exist.
That type of incident could potentially break anything. How fast would you get a We Are One replacement should the worst happen?
I've definitely bashed my back wheel before and not had this happen, I think this is probably the biggest hit though. I guess I'm trying to pick apart what difference the material made to the outcome which is kind of unknowable.
XM481 is a decent all mountain sort of rim – I’ve got quite a few and have never dented any of them.
That said if you’ve properly cased a gap then I’m not surprised you’ve damaged it. I’d keep the 481 on the front but go either ex511 or fr560 / fr541 on the rear if you are hard on wheels.
This is probably the right answer - just get a 511 on the back and keep riding.
This is why Rimpact, Cushcore etc exist.
I know what you're saying and I have run inserts in the past but I'd like to not if I can get away with it and I feel like I should be able to.
How fast would you get a We Are One replacement should the worst happen?
That's a great point, something I hadn't considered and probably the reason why I shouldn't do it.
The original rims on my Levo dented so easily. Put Rimpacts in and no problems since. I’ve now got EX511 and XM481 on both bikes but I liked the feel of the Rimpacts so I kept using them. I think it would take a hell of a smack to damage the DT Swiss rims with the Rimpacts in them.
If you're running the tyre pressures you like OP and still trashing rims then the only choice is beefier rims and/or some kind of rim protection.
I’m planning on beefier rims for sure, just thinking about what kind of beefier. Looking at the EX 511 vs the FR 560 the DT website says there’s only 15g weight difference so maybe I should go straight to the FR.
I bought a set of those superstar isotopes in the sale last year and killed the rear rim on the second ride and replaced it with an ex511. You’ll get 3 ex511 rims for the price of carbon 🤷🏻♂️
How much do you weigh, what does the thing you cased into look like, was it a dead stop?
I’m planning on beefier rims for sure, just thinking about what kind of beefier. Looking at the EX 511 vs the FR 560 the DT website says there’s only 15g weight difference so maybe I should go straight to the FR.
Should really be more than that, worth double checking.
I’m about 80kg kitted up. The feature was a drop of about 4ft height with about a 4ft gap and a root (or maybe it was a log I can’t remember) at the top of the landing. I came at it too slowly not realising it had a gap as I was riding the trail blind and by the time I saw the gap it was too late to abort so I tried to hop it and caught the back wheel full on.
Describing it, it isn’t really surprising that the rim got bashed up, it’s interesting that there are two dings though, I suppose it bounced and hit again maybe.
Those weights are from the DT Swiss site, they say the EX 511 29” is 590g and the FR 541 29” is 605g.
I just took a look at the r2 bike listings for both rims because they always show a photo of the product on a set of scales. Definitely surprising that they’re so close.
Edit: I’m just realising that I wrote FR 560 initially by mistake.
Add the nipples and phr washers to the ex511 in that pic and it'll be heavier!
Depending on what and how you hit that, it could trash most rims. I’d suggest an insert or higher pressures.
Get a rimpact pro in there now.
If it still needs replacing, I'd get an ex471
put more air in your tyres
If it helps, I have We Are One wheels and can share my experience. They've had some punishment (bone shaking impacts, Ard Rock/Ard Moors, Peaks descents, all on hardtail) and have held up well.
I went through a phase of snapped rear spokes, but that coincided with the lower end of my dirt jump learning curve, and I've since learned to up the pressures. No inserts.
Definitely surprising that they’re so close.
This Pinkbike article gives a good comparison and shows where they are the same / differ and where material has been added / removed to keep the weight similar.
PS. Biketart have the EX511 for £47 at the moment.
DT IMO make the best rims and the fact that so many dh racers are on their enduro rims speaks a lot- there's entire competition brands that have nothing that's as durable as an xm481 I reckon.
But, they're not so good at scales. I don't think they're necessarily deceiving but their claimed weights are all over the place, both up and down. And whether they include phr washers or not seems erratic too.
I've decided to go with an FR541 as a replacement, I'll be interested to see what it actually weighs and crucially I can have it in my hands tomorrow and built up by the LBS on Wednesday.
My 541 rim arrived and it weighed 605g on my scales (excluding washers and nips). Given that I can't really think of a reason not to choose the 541 over the EX 511.
Having it built up today to hopefully ride tomorrow.
I have over a million feet of descending on a pair of XM481's, plenty of trips to france, italy, scotland, lots of places with a lot of rock. Brass squorx nipples, sapim race spokes and phr washers. Get the occasional broken spoke, normally trail debris causes that.
Hitting a square edge like you did will kill any rim, so you were just unlucky.
Go back and case the same jump on the new rim.
Bro science demands it.
caught the back wheel full on.
TBF it does sound like a decent hit. I'd be surprised if many (any) rims would roll away from that unscathed.
I have over a million feet of descending on a pair of XM481’s, plenty of trips to france, italy, scotland, lots of places with a lot of rock. Brass squorx nipples, sapim race spokes and phr washers. Get the occasional broken spoke, normally trail debris causes that.
Hitting a square edge like you did will kill any rim, so you were just unlucky.
Probably true, I'm just choosing to sacrifice some weight for a bit more piece of mind this time around.
Go back and case the same jump on the new rim.
Bro science demands it.
If it fails then I'll have to get the we are one's. Can we have a whip round so I have them in hand before the big experiment?
There's a comprehensive comparison of the DT trail enduro and DH rim profiles here
I trashed a hub on my 511 so decided to get a 541 wheel built and keep the 511 as a spare rim. <br /><br />
511 was great. 541 was pretty good… but not bullet proof* Glad I kept the 511 rim as it’s now being used again.
*or drivingintoatreeproof for that matter.
Hah, oh no! I picked my wheel up today and took it for a ride. It is still round but I didn't **** it into a square edge (or drive it into a tree).
