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It's something I'd really like to learn, and if I can end up with some spangly wheels at the end then even better! Some googling brought up Ryan Builds Wheels, who I've seen recommended for purchasing wheelsets in the past but has anyone done the course and can recommend/feed back? It looks like Stayer Cycles in London also do a course at a similar cost, I'm down in Surrey/Hampshire borders so that's closer but I'm not against a weekend away somewhere to attend the course and get in some riding & relaxation too!
Any other recommendations gratefully received, my current plan would be to take the Hope Hubs I have already on some redundant wheels and buy rims/spokes to suit my gravel(ish) bike from whichever course I attend:
https://www.ryanbuildswheels.co.uk/product/wheelbuilding-weekender-handbuilt-wheel-classes/
I would recommend giving it a go yourself with help from a couple of youtube videos/ Sheldon Browns website or the Roger Musson book. I laced up some rubbish wheels with random parts and learnt from there. A wheelbuilding stand is useful but not necessary.
I'm sure the wheelbuilding course would be great though and if the money isn't a factor then go for it. You might feel like it wasn't as hard as you expected once you've completed it though.
Yep it's partly as I'm being pestered for something I'd want as a birthday present, so I thought a skill rather than a 'thing' would be nice to gain. I'm sure I could have a crack at it with some online help, but it could be fun to learn from someone and potentially pick up a bit more insight.
I'd suggest a "book" too - Musson used here and it worked fine right from the 1st attempt. I think the purchase of the book is cheap but truing/building stands can be bought to suit pretty much any budget (or the Musson book includes instructions for building (a wooden) one)
As said above.
Ask for a wheel building stand and spoke key, depending on how generous some hubs spokes and rims.
Download the musson book and bash on. It takes some thought and care, but the book is good.
Or buy an old wheel and take it apart for practice
Learnt myself - useful skill especially if commuting on rim brakes (as you'll need to rebuild wheels when the rims wear out. Plenty of on-line calculators for spoke lengths, and plenty of videos about lacing and where to start - important bit is getting the first spokes correctly positioned for the valve hole !
A truing stand is handy though - I have a Minaura. Axel adapters available off ebay etc.
I'd probably do a mix of the suggestions above. Get a book and have a go. Have an idea of the basics and you'll get the finesse and quality from a proper course. I make very serviceable wheels, but sub millimetre trueness and properly even tension eludes me, that's how a course would help.
Or buy an old wheel and take it apart for practice
That I wouldn't suggest. Old rims, and to a lesser extent spokes can be a right pain in the arse to work with. Better to get new but cheap if you feel a need for that.
Ali Clarkson's videos on YouTube are enough for anyone to get a great wheel.
Another +1 for "just try it". I got Roger Musson's book but literally the only section I use is the lacing guide (cos if I don't have it in front of me I always screw it up). I never even read the rest.
The thing is, it's actually way easier than truing an old wheel, because with that you're not just tensioning, you're fighting the history, every bend and bad tension and emergency repair and seizey nipple is against you. New parts and building from scratch is a pleaseure by comparison. (and +1 for tthew, it's easier with new bits)
No need for a stand or owt, doing it in the frame or fork with cableties is really no different. One tool I do recommend though is an adjustable nipple driver, like this. These are fantastic, even better if you have a drill driver- you just spin the nipples on and it sets them all to the exact same "depth", so the wheel starts out all sort of balanced, and it makes the tuning much easier. With a little luck this can get you right to the final finetuning, I actually had one wheel come off the driver perfectly usable without doing a single adjustment. It wasn't <good>, don't get me wrong, but it was better than some wheels I've paid money for. Unior do a cheaper unadjustable one which to me misses the point but some people really like it.
Another +1 for "just try it". I got Roger Musson's book but literally the only section I use is the lacing guide (cos if I don't have it in front of me I always screw it up). I never even read the rest.
I'm exactly the same, down to referencing the lacing guide from that. Self taught too, just started with rim swaps and progressed - can be quite enjoyable evenings with a beer. Lacing guide just keeps me right when inserting the first spoke in each run.
Attention to detail - it matters:
And +1 for the adjustable nipple driver and electric screwdriver.
Attention to detail - it matters
It really doesn't! I had about 4 goes to get my Hope logo in the right place and in the end left it where it was. Dunno why that wheel caused me such an issue with that.. but anyway, wheel is built, been battered about on the front of my ebike and nobody has noticed that the logo is slightly off, including me. I don't often bump into snobby wheel builders out riding 😜
it could be fun to learn from someone and potentially pick up a bit more insight.
Guess everyone's skipping over the birthday pressie and the above. I don't see how you could go wrong with the course you've highlighted.
Get it booked 🙂
It really doesn't! I had about 4 goes to get my Hope logo in the right place and in the end left it where it was. Dunno why that wheel caused me such an issue with that.. but anyway, wheel is built, been battered about on the front of my ebike and nobody has noticed that the logo is slightly off, including me. I don't often bump into snobby wheel builders out riding 😜
How do you sleep at night 😆
My only cock up was once not starting the first spoke in the correct direction next to the valve hole. Made it difficult to attach a chunky pump head - see front wheel...
I did a weekender with Ryan @ RyanBuildWheels. I can wholeheartedly recommend. Mine was a two day group session but I think he also does a one day 1-2-1.
Thanks all! I'm now torn between asking for the tools/stand vs doing the course - perhaps I'll suggest both options and see what they go for. Maybe I'll get lucky and end up with both but we do tend to steer towards buying each other experiences rather than objects 🙂
i found this youtube video good
My only cock up was once not starting the first spoke in the correct direction next to the valve hole. Made it difficult to attach a chunky pump head
🖐️<shrug>
My only cock up was once not starting the first spoke in the correct direction next to the valve hole. Made it difficult to attach a chunky pump head - see front wheel...
Yep I did that on one wheel, and it's enough of a PITA that I now take time to make sure I get it right on others. Screw that hub label valve hole thing though.
OP, I'd say it depends how much tinkering you're into. It's fundamentally simple, but it'll take a few wheels and mistakes to learn everything you'll be taught on a course, eg spoke length calculation can be a bit nuanced...allowing for stretch, measuring 'real' ERD allowing for the spoke head vs manufacturer's listed value etc. J bend vs straight pull. The list goes on.
I learnt most of mine by tinkering, but since going down the rathole had a fair few conversations with Ryan over the years buying spokes etc when he was in Bristol - he's a good bloke, and keen to demystify wheel building and spread the knowledge. I've built my own wheels for years, but still occasionally think about doing one of Ryan's courses as I reckon I'd learn something.
I'd say I probably enjoy tinkering with bikes almost more than riding them! Although whether that would extend to building/re-building/re-rimming (ooh-er) wheels regularly I'm not so sure, but I also feel that the best way to learn how to fix something is often to have built it in the first place or at least be able to.
I'm pretty hands-on so I'm sure I could pick it up with a book or videos but I think I'd learn the nuances and the 'why' rather than the 'how' better in person.
Bit late to the thread, but I'll chip in with another recommendation for Ryan and his two day wheel building courses. He's a top chap and it's great to have a guru on hand while you're learning!
Ryan's videos are a great reminder of what to do when you're building more wheels, but you can't beat a live person for learning the first time.
He's now moved to South Wales from Bristol, if that makes any difference for you.
For me, I was motivated to learn after poor experiences with LBS built wheels over the years (wrong components, losing tension, not dished correctly, not laced correctly etc.). Mechanics are under great time pressure and being in a rush doesn't result in great wheels... (plus most have a two/three week waiting list).
If you're looking for kit recommendations, I'd say the two most important things would be a decent spoke key (DT Swiss Proline) and a tension gauge (Park Tools TM-1), job's a good'n.
And learning to have sensible conversations about nipples, rims and lube etc. without s****ing, that's pretty tricky.
Not too late at all, appreciate the feedback!
I've not had any bad experiences with built wheels, but I have shied away from paying to have some built at my LBS because they seemed very nonchalant about component choice and seemed to be of the opinion that 'it's all the same really' so I went off the shelf instead.
South Wales works just as well for me, as I'd be doing a weekend course and stopping locally on the Saturday night anyway.
Find out if you need a course first.
Here's how:
1. Obtain a free wheelbuilding kit, ie acquire an old wreck of a bike.
2. Turn it upside down, remove wheels and any other redundant bits. Voila! it is no longer a bike but a wheelbuilding jig.
3. If only you had some wheels to practice on, you could start right now. Oh, wait a minute, there's 2 old wheels over in the corner.
4. Take a couple of pics close up of the spoke pattern. You'll notice the spokes weave over and under each other. Take careful note of that. (Unless you have an old British upright roadster, some of them didn't weave the spokes)
5. Now you're ready to start. Before you do, mark where on the hub the spokes that go to either side of the valve hole go. This is not essential, but saves the embarrassment of discovering that you've made the valve somewhat inaccessible by having a spoke crossover in the wrong place. Dismantle the first of the wheels. Keep the spokes sorted.
Now you're ready to start wheelbuilding.
6. Start with one of the spokes that goes next to the valve hole. Thread the nipple on with just a couple of turns, it's easier to keep everything loose at this stage. Then fill in every second hole on that side of the hub. You'll notice that the spokes go into every 4th hole on the rim, ie 3 empty holes between spokes.
7. Now it's time to do the other side of the same hub flange. This will involve a bit of spoke weaving, but it's basically the same procedure. These spokes will be going to the middle hole on the vacant holes on the rim.
8 Repeat for the other side. When you're finished you should have a complete but loose wheel. Time to put it in the jig/fork.
9. To finish the wheel you now need to tighten the spokes. You're doing this without any wheel building tools so getting the tension even on all spokes on a side is important. Note that hubflange spacing from the centre may be different, so unless they are equal don't expect tension to be the same on both sides. Because you are doing this on a wheel where the calculations of spoke length were presumably correct, the easy way to do this is unwind the spoke nipple completely then put it back on and wind it down a set number of turns, say 10. Go round the wheel until you're back to origin.
10. The wheel will still be soggy, so repeat with a set amount of turns, use your judgement. If it's close, a small number of turns, otherwise pick a higher number. Keep going until your wheel is tight. How tight? Ting, ting works for me if I don't have my spoke tension tool to hand. 🙂
11. Now spin the wheel. Does it wobble side to side? Does it wobble up and down? This is where the fun bit starts, getting it right.
12. Tensioning. It's important that you do this methodically. Try to work out all the places that need adjusting and mark them and then attend to those spots. Remember any adjustment you make will have an effect on adjacent spokes and opposing spokes. Near enough is going to be good enough for this time.
13. Now dismantle the wheel and do it again. You'll be much quicker and confident, so expect bungles - especially if you have mates round with beer while you're demonstrating your new skill. That's good because you'll be motivated to dismantle it again and repeat. Keep doing taht until you can look at your wheel and smile.
Useful tips:
Oil the nipples. I use my wife's sacred Extra Virgin Olive Oil. It gums up nicely once the wheel is finished but keeps the nipples easy to adjust.
A suitably sized screwdriver makes a great nipple driver. Just cut a groove in the middle of the head so there's room for the spoke.
Those skinny Post-It Notes that are used as page markers are really handy for making which spoke you start on, or as a marker if you are interrupted.
I make a point of keeping all nipple heads aligned until final tensioning. Not essential, but a handy visual guide.
Once you're ready to start building from scratch, this is a useful site for calculating spoke size:
https://spokes-calculator.dtswiss.com/en/
Experience will make you good at this, so don't expect perfection right now. I don't claim to be a great wheelbuilder, but I've been building my own wheels for decades and never had one fail or lose its truth. The art of wheelbuilding is a bit of knowledge that takes a couple of minutes to acquire but a skill only gained with lots of practice.
I’ve used Roger Mussons book and diy stand. I built a couple but have recently been doing more spoke replacement and truing. Getting better at it and aim to build next wheels myself.
look at Aliexpress for tools. Wheel building stuff seems disproportionately expensive - £35 for that cycles nipple tool?! Theresa a Risk one on Ali for £3. I recently bought a £5 Aliexpress spoke tension meter and it made a big difference to my previous ping a spoke technique (I don’t think my hearing is good enough). No idea if it’s accurate but it is consistent so I can take a reading off a good wheel and use that to check the one I’m working on. And use it to check consistency around the wheel.
im about to order an Ali jig as mine was built in the age of 26 wheels and is now bodged up on plastic packers.
I always make sure to intentionally misalign the hub logo so that anyone who knows, will know that *I* built the wheel, I didn't just get it from a shop.
At least that's what I tell my children when they mock me.
+1 for Roger Musson book.
That's what I did on my front wheel oldnpastit, definitely, definitely.
Despite the fact I curse my design/error with the valve hole in a tight cross it's definitely a security/ identification system.... Honest
You haven't built a wheel until you have laced all 31spokes into... Ah ****.
My dad taught me to build wheels at the age of 16 😁
Started off truing a couple of old road wheels, then took apart an old MTB wheel, and finally built up some new Araya rims on black Deore XT hubs.....I still have those wheels 34 years later!
I've built and rebuilt many wheels over the years, never owned a stand, just use frame or forks with zip-ties (or a steel ruler taped to the chainstays for final side to side truing).
Genuinely, the only piece of equipment that is essential is a decent spoke key. Even tension can be achieved by feel and ear. Make sure to bed the spokes in where they cross (I use an old non-drive side crank as a lever for this).
Sheldon Brown's website is invaluable for when you have a brain fart and need reminding of lacing patterns 😆
I've built and rebuilt many wheels over the years, never owned a stand, just use frame or forks with zip-ties (or a steel ruler taped to the chainstays for final side to side truing).
It's been said a few times on here, and regularly in other threads about wheel building, but a proper stand stood at the right height on a workbench really makes wheel building a nicer experience. I've done wheel repairs in an upside down bike before I got into full building so have both experiences.
It's like having any proper tool for the job really. Makes a task much more pleasant.
I've built and rebuilt many wheels over the years, never owned a stand, just use frame or forks with zip-ties (or a steel ruler taped to the chainstays for final side to side truing).
It's been said a few times on here, and regularly in other threads about wheel building, but a proper stand stood at the right height on a workbench really makes wheel building a nicer experience. I've done wheel repairs in an upside down bike before I got into full building so have both experiences.
It's like having any proper tool for the job really. Makes a task much more pleasant.
I'll agree to disagree, I've built wheels on a stand, and apart from having to put a frame in a bike stand and attach a few zip-ties, etc. for me there's no real difference. Its just what I'm used to.
If you're building the wheel in the frame it's going to be ridden in, I think there's also an advantage in seeing clearances, etc.
I'm not anti-consumerist (I'm an MTBer we love stuff) but a wheel jig is an extra thing I don't really need when you consider the volume of wheels I actually make - maybe build a full set every couple of years, and a true up or spoke replacement a couple of times a year.
I'm confident in the wheels I build, and I'm not doing it as a job, so it works for me. YMMV if course.
Personally i like the stand. I built the RM stand. Using the wheel in situ on the bike is too bodgy for my brain, doesn't set me up to the right frame of mind for wheel truing/building. Using the stand means I'm more likely to be careful and not rush it, and less likely to give up and take it to shop.
If you're building the wheel in the frame it's going to be ridden in, I think there's also an advantage in seeing clearances, etc.
There's only one time when this might have helped me, my commuter bike has an offset hub to narrow the Q factor but keep the belt drive straight. That was a puzzler why I couldn't seem to get the wheel in straight!
look at Aliexpress for tools. Wheel building stuff seems disproportionately expensive - £35 for that cycles nipple tool?! Theresa a Risk one on Ali for £3.
Not the same thing, the Cyclus one is depth adjustable, you use it to set the nipples all to the same depth as a starting point.
A nipple inserting tool is a nice thing to have but cocktail sticks do the job just as well and are double ended 🙂
Must admit I do tend to forget that not everyone has good pitch hearing, for me it's dead easy to set tension just by the ping and I think that's true for most people but yep not everyone can do that.