[Closed] Wheel Build Costs - Paying for Expertise?

I'm guessing you don't want the standard black hope hub?? £340 is a bloody good price for that build

I'm guessing you don't want the standard black hope hub

Why?

Try Just Riding Along.

Yup standard black Hope Pro2Evo hub.
But this is my point....if it is a good price, how do I know its built well and I wont have no end of trouble?

If you want the black hub they will come direct from hope pre built

If you want the black hub they will come direct from hope pre built

Not with Sapim D-light spokes.

But this is my point....if it is a good price, how do I know its built well and I wont have no end of trouble?

Well, really you can only go by a mix of general reputation and, preferably personal recommendation from people you know and trust. I have a mate who builds wheels professionally, runs a bike shop, and I've never had a duff wheel from him. Nor have any of my mates. End of.

But it's like anything. How do you know how well made anything is, particularly when there's an element of craftsmanship involved?

Try Just Riding Along.

If you want the black hub they will come direct from hope pre built

Sorry yeah just noticed the spoke spec

. I'm not naming and shaming,

And in that case, how are you going to know whether other people have had good or bad experiences with the wheel-builder in question? I don't see why it's 'shaming' someone because they've quoted you more btw?

To be fair who ever gave the quote of £400 still a good price for that build spec.

Not sure how many spoke lengths the build requires but if the D-Lights aren't a stock spoke for the shop then they could potentially have to buy 3 boxes of 100 spokes so the shop would almost certainly look to cover this with the quote.

Why not just get hope hoops and save £80 over your cheapest quote? Personally I'd not use alloy nipples, to much siezing, snaping and cracking. Not sure about 1.6 spokes either, unless your light they might be quite flexy for some (I'm presuming with hope hubs not being the lightest but are probably amongst the most reliable) everyday wheels?

Either that or learn to build them, I taught myself with the sheldon guide and if you buy stuff like rims and spokes form wherever is cheapest online (usually rose for spokes and CRC/wiggle for rims), it doesn't take long to learn, especially if you make life easy for yourself and get a spoke tension meter (about £60 for the park one off CRC).

And in that case, how are you going to know whether other people have had good or bad experiences with the wheel-builder in question?

Im asking if Im paying for experience over another company. I know its hard to quantify really.

To be fair who ever gave the quote of £400 still a good price for that build spec.

Either that or learn to build them,

Tbh good build or bad build - i predict a life o hassle from that specification

Tbh good build or bad build - i predict a life o hassle from that specification

Actually, if its the Crest rim youre referring too, its more likely to be the Arch EX.

Saving weight by speccing ali nipples and then using hopes seems a little counter intuitive.
The d-lights look interesting though.Not seen them listed by Chickens (importers) so might be tricky to get hold of.Fair weight saving over lasers (60g) with the short butts and not super thin (1.65mm) in the middle.Might look into them for work.
Edit-Found em....now whether they've got any is a different matter!!

Saving weight by speccing ali nipples and then using hopes seems a little counter intuitive.

why those spokes out of interest?

Re cost, it's a odd build spec.

Strength/Weight/cost over Super comps or even C-Xray. Were suggested by one of the builders.

The d-lights look interesting though.Not seen them listed by Chickens (importers) so might be tricky to get hold of

Chickens have stock of 256-266mm in 2mm jumps.

Rims fine - run 355s my self

Its the alu nipples and ultra fine gauge spokes that bother me given you cant go high on tension with stans

There's a reason those spokes are popular you know 😉

trail rat beat me to it, what spokes do Stans recommend?

Two things, I would build a wheel with anything else than DT swiss spoke. And I certainly would not build a wheel with stan's rim, they are not up for the job.

🙄

There's nowt wrong with stans rims, and only DT swiss spokes?, have you heard of sapim? - I've only used Sapim spokes on my wheel builds and i've broke 2 spokes in 22yrs + of riding, and that was due to a stick entering the spokes so i guess it doesn't count.

Care to quantify your statement Juan or was it just a brainfart?

Tried Dave at Cyclefast?

Stan's are very bad, non LBS whatsoever round here is going to build a wheel using them, they are not just good enough for off road use. A friend of mine had a pair of wheels build online with stans, and they just need too much maintenance, plus he wouldn't jump big steps on them, so not "fit for purpose"... As for sapim well don't get me started.

Oh where to start....

I think the main 3 questions to ask Stevo is;
What are the wheels for, gen riding, XC racing, dh or AM?
How heavy are you?
And riding style, smooth, hard, have you trashed a wheel in the past?

Also does any of the higher prices include tape, Vavle set up? (I take it you running tubeless?)

As for stan rims Juan,, sounds like some of your friends of had a heavier set of rims, as there are planty od worldcup DH riders ride stans and do OK with them!

All your local shops got bad wheel builders them juan ....just out to troll tonight are we ?

DH riders ride stans and do OK with them

Are they really as in the wheel last the whole season or do they just change them at each run...?

Trail_rat if you think so. However you kind of fail to gasp that I don't just pootle around the woods. Terrain here is tough. Very though and you need durable wheels.

My wheels lasted just fine all over les arcs Backtrails holiday , they were Stans arches front and back of a 160 mm hardtail playing keep up and pass the fs riders 😉

I run 355s on my xc race bike

And i have smashed up 2 sets of carbon forks on my rigid 29er , stans arch 29er rim has held up just fine, one of the forks was head on into a tree at full tilt on a downhill ... Burst the tire and bust the forks. Wheels fine

Only issue i have had was my hope hoops ( 355 on sp hubs ) being terribly built. I rebuilt them with new spokes my self and been fine since.

Built countless for customers as well . No issues other than one that was run over by a car

For reference when I was building regularly I changed £10 -15 per wheel for standard patterns, about 2 and a bit years ago. This was cash though not a business just people would pass on my name. Customer supply components, I would advice on spoke length. So mainly it would depend on how much people could source the parts for.

Again trail_rat, les Arc is by no means hard. LBS has been building probably has much wheels hav you have. And they won't touch sapim or stan's so I trust them on that. And has for breaking fork and not wheels, it has nothing to do with the build. It all has to do with physics. However as some people clearly think they "know it all" because they have been riding in les arc (done the TV or the tp yet??)and that I am just a "village idot" not sure I'll waiste my time anymore on this thread.

Lol

Ok

Carry on.

Ps if any more of your locals want stans and sapim spokes send em my way , ill gladly pick up on your lbs' short comings.

Juan, Does you LBS say that DT swiss and Mavic rims are the ONLY rims you must use as well????

I think you LBS is not telling the whole truth to you!
Ok I know a few wheel builds who Like to use DT over Samip and a few others who like Samip over DT BUT NONE have said the other make are crap and will not use them.

I think it more to do with the fact that Madison is the supplier for, DT swiss spokes, rims and also supplies Mavic rims. they also supplier for Shimano, So the LBS well prob use them a lot.
So sticking to just those brands from one supplier will help make up orders, (free P&P) & better rates for dealer/bulk buying.
Also it will save time (= money) and P&P ordering in one place and not going to Chicken or Paligap to order parts from diffent places.

Also just useing one make of spoke helps keep stocking (lenghts and spoke types) and re stocking cost down.

I do get it if that what the LBS is doing, and I don't blame if they are.
(Also Hope hoops are so cheap most LBS can't order the parts and build the wheel and make as much money)

BUT to turn around and bad mouth 2 good poducts with good reps is a little off IMO, but then they might think it easier to do than "sorry, don't really do Sapim/Stans, as we can't be assed to speed more time and money in ordering them in"

better to say "we use DT/mavic with think they bit better/vaule than Sapim/stans"

juan - Member
Two things, I would build a wheel with anything else than DT swiss spoke. And I certainly would not build a wheel with stan's rim, they are not up for the job.

This IS a brainfart!

I ride Stan's rims and I can ride steps. Just because your mate won't doesn't make them 'not fit for purpose'.

I've never heard as much tosh matey!

Stans rims are fantastic. I've been using them for years and not had a single problem. Some hand built, some manufacturer built.
Olympics, 355, Podium, Crest & Race Gold 29er. No issues.

I built a set of wheels with Flow rims and the customer destroyed the rear one in a few days! Oh hang on....he was repeatedly pulling 360's and finally got one wrong, came up short and slammed the rear wheel into a tree stump....

Plenty of people use Stans in BC and the terrain is arguably just as hard as France. Sapim or DT? Who cares!

I rode some of the East Midlands most hardcore towpaths yesterday and my Stans rims held up just fine!!

Rob that would be true if I was leaving in the UK, I am not. LBS Use plenty of rims other than mavic. And they try everything before deciding weather or not they offer it to the customers. Obviously if you get in and sya I WANT STANS they will build you some stan, probably better than a trail rat (btw trail rat are you up for a challenge, TransV this year, the faster of the two of us got the right to brague about it on here). But they have decided they are not good enough, so I trust them. And sapim they are purely for roadies.

Every wheel build has their preferences. I've built thousands of high quality wheels for all kinds of riders. I prefer Mavic rims, but others, including DT and Stans are perfectly acceptable. I prefer DT spokes, but Sapim and Wheelsmith are also lovely. Alloy nipples? Run away!!! 😆

No idea about that wheel spec, but a confirmed Stans user here, and I'm heavy and clumsy. Never had a problem with them.

That's all.

Mavic for building. Stans for riding. I prefer the eyelets and stength of a Mavic to build, but give me the width and lighter weight of a Stans for riding. I wish Mavic would WAKE UP and build/sell wider rims (without having to buy into their wheel sets).

DT spokes used to be best to build with as they were better finished; not sure if this is still the case.

Super light spokes and alloy nipples are good for race/posing wheels IMHO. If you do this and use them hard your looking at a rebuild in 1/2/3 years... which might not be a bad thing with a Stans rim anyway.

If you want a long lasting wheelset and don't mind the extra weight go Mavic with DT Super Comp and Brass. If you want weight weenie and are willing to rebuild a bit earlier then go with your plan.

FWIW - I ride with the lighter and wider Stans now as I like the feel. I know the rims are weaker and won't last as long as a Mavic but I'll live with that compromise. The next wheels I build will have carbon rims... wish me luck 😕

BiTD, I used to buy wheels as cheaply as I could to save me the hassle of lacing them, and then check the tension and stress-relieving had been done properly myself. Often got a couple of extra turns on every spoke...

I'm not going to tell you what to build and what not to build, i've been out the bike trade for a while now but I used to build around 2 sets of wheels a week for 4 years,not a lot for some mechanics but enough for me.

we used DT swiss spokes and encoraged people to use them as they were easliy available cheep and wellfinished,i think it was around 75p a spoke compared to the sapims which from around 90p to silly amount. obiously if you wanted double butted or tripple butted etc you'd pay a little more.

I hated using sapium as i found them harder to work with,my boss hated them because we charged a set rate for wheel builds so the mark up wasn't as good. alloy nipples,we'd see the wheel set in at some point in the near future, but for racing this wasnt an issue.

as for stans rims being not fit for purpose, it depends on what rim you go for and what your doing. I prefered working on mavic rims or sunlights as they were easier and slightly stiffer, so they reaced lessto a tweekon the nipple. the stans and dt rims ifound a littlemore flexible so you had to be a little more carefull.but once built they all made good wheels

I had been riding a set of bontrager race lite rims on dt swiss hubs with tripple butted spokes built by me for 6 years and never trued them i just sold some factory built ones that were my spares that just weren't being used. I ride n the lakes im no light weight (i was almost 15stone when living up there, and a heavy rider.

Rscott, don't you find your wheel get a bit woobly under hard breaking using thin triple butted spokes?

to begin with i did yes, but once i got used to it, as with anythign it wasn't really noticeable. I've not been entirely honest in my post these wheels are now decommissioned as the bearings in the hubs had gone and the free hub was shot. it worked out cheaper to get a second had pair of wheels and sort them.

Im now running hope pro2's on mavic xm321,dt swiss double butted stainless spokes,brass nipples. i bought them for the hubs and was going to rebuild them on to my racelite rims but i cant justify the time at the min, and they are in much better condition than i thought when i bought them.

That is the point I guess, in my point of view, rims are consumables, if you use good quality rims and take care of them, you may be able to keep them 4-5 years, but I suspect that is the top. Then they get to many dings and dongs to justify being used again. Basically, if I get 4 years out of a 717 disk or a VO2max, I'll consider myself very lucky. I follow your point regarding hope hubs though, not the "lighest", but by far the most durable.

on hope hubs don't get a hope bearing kit for them for a ridiculous price. take the bearings out and toke them to your local engineering shop they will be able to sort you out for a round £2 a bearing. they'll use the specific code on the seal to get the exact same one for a margin of the price.

if you find a good LBS that builds you a quality wheel they are well worth the extra you pay.
i've been running a Sun Ringle Abbah SOS rear hub and a Marzocchi 20mm front hub laced with plain guage s/s spokes on a pair of Atomlab Trailpimp 24 inch rims on my DH bike / Atomlab Trailpimp rear hub and WTB Laser 20mm front hub with plain guage s/s spokes laced to 26 inch Atomlab DHR rims on my hardtail for 5 years now and through all the abuse they have had, they've never needed to be trued once.
having said that i think i was quite fortunate really as at the time when i got the wheels re-built (hub swap between the rims) my LBS was taking part in an exchange programme with Shimano (they were one of 4 shops worldwide to be invited to take part) and Shimano sent a mechanic over from Japan to live and work with them for 2 months...and boy could he build wheels!!
the only time any of the wheels have gone back was 2 months ago when a broken rear mech ripped a spoke out of the rear wheel.
i suppose you may say that the strength of the wheel has more to do with the fact that the parts choice makes them heavy but super strong but the quality in the workmanship cant be faulted.
i've had wheels built from here before and they've always been perfectly done.
the shop in question is Ride-On....yes the same Ride-On where the Global Ti bikes and the Empire AP-1 originated from.