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Hi All,
I have just completed the 20' TP test on a Watt Bike with a TP reading of 222W. Clearly this gives plenty of room for improvement but would be really interested in others folks experiences and readings.
Dogsby
It also depends how heavy you are.
Mines 330 and I'm 66kg
Eddie,
I am 78kg which makes my readings even more depressing!
You also don't know how much I ride or my age so there are lots of factors here.
But the main thing is how you handle a bike in a race, you may whallop me down hill?
Eddie,
I would doubt that! Just in the first week of a training programme so we will see how I get on.
Yep exactly, I've raced for years and am a big numbers geek.
Things to consider are can you push yourself harder when you might end up second? I struggle with emptying myself on a turbo where I can in 'anger' it's all relative in my eyes.
Goodluck with the program, stick it for 12 weeks then loads of adaptation will of happened
Mines 330 and I'm 66kg
Your also 5w/kg and ready for a GC challenge, well done but probably not typical of the average stw'er.
OP- 2.8w/kg is pretty good.
For perspective 3w/kg is an hour up ADH.
Eddie,
I am following Joe Friels programme so I will hopefully be able to see my progress in the coming months. I'll let you know in four weeks!
I wouldn't feel too bad, when I did the Zwift from test I got 165w and I'm 80kg+ 😕
I'm not [i]that[/i] slow though.
Cheers Wilburt, makes me feel a bit better!
Mines 330 and I'm 66kg
Is it? That's pretty bloody good.
I could do 330W for 20 minutes, maybe more over the summer, probably less now.
Also depends what was used to measure the power. Wattbike should be pretty good, virtual power on trainer road or similar can be innacurate (but that does not matter if it is repeatable).
Eddie can still ride a bit for an oldie !! I won't blow his cover on here, but his figures would be true enough.
Taxi25 do I know you? Thanks for acknowledgement
Njee20 - yes it is, but I'm rubbish at going round corners so it's all relative!!
I could do 330W for 20 minutes, maybe more over the summer, probably less now.
You don't weigh 66kg though.
5w/kg is bordering on world class. 10 seconds on Google shows Eddie's identity. He's good, I'd suggest maybe calibrating the power meter 😉
Edit: too slow - all due, you must be utterly atrocious at going around corners!
According to trainerroad my FTP is 307 and I weigh 57kg, however as I'm a prime example of a mid-field warrior I'm either a rubbish bike handler or trainerroad is wrong. I'm hoping it's the latter!
To be fair, while numbers are great for training I don't think they mean as much as aggression and desire when it comes to an xc or cx race
Njee20, ha ha I might get a lower result if I caliberated it!
I've done that figure on two separate machines , wonder if I can post my graph, I don't have a biological passport though.
I looked on google and didn't find too much.
Flippin eck , this is like a how much does my bike weigh thread!
[img] http://home.trainingpeaks.com/getmedia/a4f43215-cd08-4a58-93b8-b9c8801727fa/PowerProfile [/img]
You've lapped me often enough at the cross lol, but that's as far as it goes. Your identity isn't much of a secret here in S.Wales.
I have just completed the 20' TP test on a Watt Bike with a TP reading of 222W. Clearly this gives plenty of room for improvement but would be really interested in others folks experiences and readings.
If this is your first test, you'll soon see quite an improvement simply by getting better at doing the test.
Your email may give it away?
Good table Wilburt
Last summer I was hovering around 4w/kg that was good enough to start troubling the local strava koms and generally in the top 20 of the gorricks. After illness and putting some weight on I'm around 3.5 ish. FTP test on Tuesday. Likely to be unhappy 🙁
Your email may give it away
That's what I did! Absolutely agree that getting better at the test is worth a good few watts! Probably more than you'll manage to train!
4.4 Watts/kg (67 kg) estimated from racing not a trainer. Threshold power is not what really matters though, as I have posted before. Power profile is what really counts and it should double from 20 min to 1 min to 5 seconds. Mine doesn't so I am confined to be E123 pack fodder, a happy domestique, or a very unlikely veteran podium finisher (one day!).
I'd be better off competing in 100 mile time trials to be honest.
301 Watts (measured via 20 minute FTP on a PowerTap). I weigh 72 kgs normally (bit overweight from Christmas at the mo....)
Mine is less than last week.........more than next week. Bloody golfers elbow.
4.4 Watts/kg (67 kg) estimated from racing not a trainer. Threshold power is not what really matters though, as I have posted before. Power profile is what really counts and it should double from 20 min to 1 min to 5 seconds. Mine doesn't so I am confined to be E123 pack fodder, a happy domestique, or a very unlikely veteran podium finisher (one day!).
So you're saying a top notch power profile would be like this:
20mins - 300W
1min - 600W
5s - 1200W
??
OP: I haven't done a test since Christmas but I'll probably do one next week - woohoooo!!!!
Your also 5w/kg and ready for a GC challenge, well done but probably not typical of the average stw'er.OP- 2.8w/kg is pretty good.
For perspective 3w/kg is an hour up ADH
No chance!
180w average for a 60kg rider is not going to get you up AdH in an hour!
A heavier rider at the same w/kg is going to be even slower.
Yeah, looks like you need a bit more - Bloke here has plotted it out:No chance!
180w average for a 60kg rider is not going to get you up AdH in an hour!
http://alex-cycle.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/lalpe-dhuez-one-for-mortals.html
3.8 W Kg-1 is required for the Alpe in an hour.
Are people remembering the x0.95 for 20minute tests? It makes 5w/kg pretty hard.
As an old git I prefer a longer test - can manage 3w/kg over 15hrs.
Are people remembering the x0.95 for 20minute tests? It makes 5w/kg pretty hard.
Interestingly the Watt Bike test doesn't mention this. Bit of a daft oversight, but it implies that your 20 minute power is your threshold power.
Yeah, looks like you need a bit more - Bloke here has plotted it out:
I was going by that chart but from memory, which is obviously as good as my wattage!
That seems odd from Wattbike. I used the 95% rule - I got 317W average for 20 minutes.
It's a while since I looked, but it's because they suggest you do a 3 minute test IIRC and it suggest zones from that. It's not based on a 'conventional' FTP, but there's nothing about the 95% thing.
From the Wattbike Website:
20 minute threshold test
What is it: This is a test for experienced cyclists only. It is usually conducted at 75-80% of maximum minute power (Z5 heart rate and power training zone) and measures improvement in sustaining a high percentage of maximal aerobic power. [b]The 20 minute test can be used to estimate functional threshold power (FTP)[/b]When to use it: The 20 minute threshold test is a progress test which can be used by experienced cyclists to check progress throughout a specific training plan or at the beginning of a programme to estimate FTP.
Doesn't explicitly say 95% anywhere.
Wattbike seem to have their own way of doing things. I think the 20 min field test thing for FTP comes from the Hunter Allen book. They are all just different ways of coming up with estimates, all will probably all give slightly different results.
(Here...
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/functional-threshold-power-the-most-important-power-metric
... for the 95% of 20 min thing.)
Threshold power is just a small part of the picture too, especially for mtb. Things like a power profile across a range of durations is important, especially short hard efforts. And repeatability/recovery is a key factor too.
Sure but given much of whats written in the thread will he double dutch to people new to power testing keeping it simple has value.
Being in that situation myself not long ago, I like the 20 minute test and he 95% formula transfers it into real world challenges like ADH quite nicely. I suppose its all only subjective testing but quite motivational intresting to hear what results others are getting.
Contributors so far are likely the top end of the range, the most common rides on zwift for example are quoted as being 2/2.5 w/kg which is a bit more realistic for most people.
The key is to pick one protocol and stick to it to measure your own progress. Comparing to others is interesting but not much use.
Other things like skills, kit and aero will make a difference to real world performance.
You don't weigh 66kg though.
That's why I'm crap 🙂 The original question didn't ask for weight!
Comparing to others is interesting but not much use.
Mmmm...maybe for some but the table on the previous page suggests ftp can be used as an indication of real world performance.
W/KG is also the cornerstone of online cycling which looks to become pretty big so a consistent formula is important.
I remember seeing this a while back and thinking it'd be nice bombing round everywhere at about 25 mph without breaking a sweat.
[img] 
[/img]
Mmmm...maybe for some but the table on the previous page suggests ftp can be used as an indication of real world performance.
Is an interesting point that as often it isn't. Most people will do theirs on the turbo, ideal-ish conditions, a constant resistance. Some people are much better than others at translating that to real world performance (e.g rolling terrain, winds, etc.)
Also just because two people have the same 60 minute power, they could still have very different 20MP, 8MP, 3MP, 1MP, etc. Same goes for recovery and repeatability of those efforts.
So it's just one part of the puzzle when it comes to real world performance. You can get a lot faster without much change in your measured FTP (but then that can depend on how you measure it!)
exactly. Turbo power is usually different to road power, like it or not.
I have got up ADH in under an hour, 49 minutes actually. my FTP is (was) 385w (Quarq, on the road) and at 83kg.
However I'm currently 88kg and a lot less watts. work to do.
You do get good at doing tests, I find it much easier to put out big power on mountains than the trainer, I guess it's because you can see a physical goal (the top) there's interest and I quite like to hurt myself uphill on the road.
Jeez, some big numbers here. Thanks for making me realise how shit I am!
You do get good at doing tests, I find it much easier to put out big power on mountains than the trainer, I guess it's because you can see a physical goal (the top) there's interest and I quite like to hurt myself uphill on the road.
Also how your muscles are used (recruitment, firing patterns etc.) are different up hills to flat so power can be quite different.
Jeez, some big numbers here
When I started racing few years ago (aged 45), the number was a lot smaller! I gained a bit of power and lost a bit of weight.
Jamz, if you look at the table posted by wilbert you will see that on a Watts/kg basis, reading ACROSS a row, power halves from 5s to 1 min and again to 20 min (5min is an outlier so I ignore it). a rider's characteristic power profile is how close one is to this flat profile. Sprinters will have better 5s relative to 20 min (\), most of us will be the other way(/). GC contenders tend to be flat (-) and have about 6 W/kg at 20 min.
Any value you measure is a start. Riding will improve it. Riding lots will improve it more. Then hard training will improve it again. But most people spend all their time fretting about their 20 minute efforts, but these count for little in a sprint at the end of a race where points are concerned.
Jamz, if you look at the table posted by wilbert you will see that on a Watts/kg basis, reading ACROSS a row, power halves from 5s to 1 min and again to 20 min (5min is an outlier so I ignore it). a rider's characteristic power profile is how close one is to this flat profile. Sprinters will have better 5s relative to 20 min (\), most of us will be the other way(/). GC contenders tend to be flat (-) and have about 6 W/kg at 20 min.
Interesting, thanks! Looks like I need to improve my 5 second power.
_______________________
With regards the high figures some people give (not suggesting anyone here is wrong) - a lot of people miss the 5 minutes maximal interval before they do their 20min test. The protocol should be:
-Warm up
-5min max effort
-10min easy riding
-20min TT
And then 95% of the power you average for the 20min interval. Your FTP is equivalent to the power you can sustain in a steady state for a 1hour TT. Missing the 5 minute max interval, or not going hard enough, will not provide an accurate estimation of your 1 hour power.
FTP threads are becoming the new bike weight threads.
Just to balance some of the big numbers here, mine is 141 at 63.5kg so 2.22w/kg bang on the average recreational cyclists ftp according to coggans table. And that's exactly what I am 🙂
An FTP test is just an indication or marker is not a real time figure. As @TiRed said power profile & mean maximum is where it counts as these are numbers from actual riding or racing. You can have a lower FTP W/kg than the next man but the one who is better trained at holding those numbers will always be king.
Looks like I need to improve my 5 second power.
You aren't the only one! Mine under-reads by 4 Watts/kg 🙁 . A sprinter I am not. I prescribe 20/40's which is 20 second full efforts with 40 second recovery. To exhaustion. If I get past 12 I am doing well.
You aren't the only one! Mine under-reads by 4 Watts/kg . A sprinter I am not. I prescribe 20/40's which is 20 second full efforts with 40 second recovery. To exhaustion. If I get past 12 I am doing well.
Sounds delightful - just what the doctor ordered! I'll give it a go next week.
An FTP test is just an indication or marker is not a real time figure. As @TiRed said power profile & mean maximum is where it counts as these are numbers from actual riding or racing. You can have a lower FTP W/kg than the next man but the one who is better trained at holding those numbers will always be king.
Unless you're a time trialist... and we all know that's the race of truth 😉
I got up Alp d'Huez last summer averaging about 3.85W/kg and it took me about 56minutes.
That's somewhat lower than my FTP figure. Generating FTP for an hour in the real world is flipping difficult.
Then your FTP is wrong 😉
A pro's 20 min 'test' just before doing a fairly chunky ride. Got to love ten Dam https://www.strava.com/activities/466510725/overview
Have a look at his laps..
It could well be knowing how reliable Stages power meters are 😉
Only done one FTP test using a Quark PM, 319w for 20mins giving 303w with 75kg = 4w/kg. I race in Grand Vet and finish in the upper end, need more power and skill to reliably win stuff though.
unless you're a time triallist
then your FTP is wrong
And that's partly the problem with it. Things like the 20 min test, it's just an approximation. The protocol doesn't specify any riding condition either. An hour's climb or time trial, there will be lots of variability around your average power value, always going a bit over and a bit under. May be harder or easier than churning out 20 min on the turbo, will depend on the individual.
Thanks for all of the contributions and debate so far; really useful and adds a lot of context.
I think my view is that it doesn't really matter and knowing the figures isn't going to make me faster but as a baseline to work from and to judge improvement it will be really helpful.
I'll let you know in a few weeks when I test again!
Dogsby
Like i said its useful for your own progress. One other thing ive found using my power profile (off strava) is i am getting better at pacing. So i know roughly how much i should push for say a 8min segment. For me generally i can push slightly more in the real world than on the turbo. Could be pm calibration, or the fact there is more to distract from the pain.
The 20minute test is an approximation, but its done in a controlled environment and its for setting your power zones for training and measuring progress. If your FTP goes up over a period then its resonably safe to say you've got fitter. That will translate into the real world - whether you can hit better or worse numbers on the road than on the turbo.
then your FTP is wrong
When I said 3.85w/kg to get up AdH in 56 minutes I didn't say I was going all out either 😉 It was still somewhat unpleasant....
This is more controversial than the discussing wages thread........
The 0.95 is a killer, being a % and taking away proportionately more as your output increases or not.
73kg and 334W = 3.58W/kg. To get to 5W/kg I need to get to 370W gross and drop to 70kg - ain't gonna happen! 4.8, better bike handling and racecraft will have to do.
^spot the maths error
I guess the main purpose of knowing your FTP is making your structured training more effective.
I know my FTP and I know it's not the reason I get my arse handed to me in Cat 4 races.
Eddie Fiola - Member
It also depends how heavy you are.Mines 330 and I'm 66kg
I would not question your power ... would definitely question the 66kg (10st 3lb) though.
If you said 76kg I would raise an eyebrow ... closer to 80kg would have been my guess though.
As njee said...
10 seconds on Google shows Eddie's identity.
I'd not doubt his numbers.
330w and 66kg isn't too astounding. It's good for an amateur but possible with training. That's close to what I'd be aiming at if I didn't like cake so much!
Doesn't tell the full picture though does it.
It's good for an amateur but possible with training
Indeed, I'm not far away now (305/67), but what is his 5 second power? 😈 Short Term Muscular Endurance is what will win races. Can you break away and stay away? Than means a few minutes in the red zone. He can.
Basic training gets to the point where all engines are good enough to not get dropped in races, but it's when the hammer goes down that mine is found wanting 👿 . That, and the sprint at the end - I'm not alone in this feature, most training is aimed at tuning the engine for FTPs.
Off-road, skills not fitness are what hold me back. I'm in awe of the lap times for cross and mtb for riders who I know I can compete with on road.
Had a little dabble in cat 4 last year and can confirm that if you have good power but lack race craft and a sprint then you're in for a frustrating race!
IIRC the shorter end of coggans power curve is distorted by A lot of the data coming from track sprinters who specialize in short huge power outputs. The only real point of working out your FTP is to establish training zones and to measure progress ( however the best indicator of performance ......is performance). The W pKG is More important for pros as they will often race in the mountains but it is much lesss relevant on flatter ground . That's why you won't see Quintana racing the classics anytime soon and why Wiggins has put on 16kg to enable him to compete on the track. Testers are much less bothered with w/kg (unless it's a hilly TT ) and much more interested in power output and aerodynamics , the latter can make a significant difference to your time in a TT.
I've just nearly killed myself doing the 2 x 8 CTS test. 🙁
with an average of 232 average over both sessions.
so being 69kg that's puts me at 3.3W/Kg.
Although I have read that my power should be factored by 0.9 for the 2 x 8 test as opposed to the .95 factor for the 20 minute test.
Is this right? and do I factor it before calculating zones.
Please bear with me I'm new to this stuff 😳
0.9 for 8 minute and 0.95 for 20 is what I thought too, that's what TrainerRoad use anyway...
Yes, multiply your average for the two 8min efforts by 0.9 to get an estimate of your FTP. It's the FTP you then use to calculate your zones.
cheers guys, off to do some calculating.
Wattbike seem to offer the online one, are they all the same?
My understanding is yes (0.9) for the 2x8 test and assuming you had the prescribed 10 minute break between the 8 minute hard intervals.
And yes, you need to factor it before working out your training zones.
assuming you had the prescribed 10 minute break between the 8 minute hard intervals.
yip I did, although 10 hours would have been better 🙄
Not sure what you mean by the "online" one?
Not sure what you mean by the "online" one?
the one on the wattbike website, just plug your FTP and THR and it sets your 6 zones
[url= https://wattbike.com/uk/functional-threshold-power ]This one[/url]