[Closed] What's with people racing 'challenge' events? Or just me that isn't? Discuss

you mean my commute is not a race? My view is why care what others do? Just enjoy the event you can ride at whatever speed you like

Chipps, I think you raise some good points regarding incentives for organisers to keep going and the technicalities of bridal ways being used but if there's a clock running and prizes at the end then some if us will go as fast as we can.

While I know I'm not going to win I aim for the top third and enjoy trying to out climb, catch others and beat myself up doing it; even our night rides are competitive, it's just how some of us are 😀

who would still do this kind of event knowing it could be 'illegal' to do so?

Is it possible that Chipps is the exception here, being quite happy to pootle around these "not-a-race" events?

For me it's just a case that they're often attended by people who aren't quick enough for 'real' racing, so they turn things like that into a race. Ego boost. No different to sportives.

From the Tour de Ben Nevis blurb

However, we stress this is more of an event than a race. Those that are super fit and want to race hard will not be disappointed and the special timed sections will spice it up a bit and really bring out the competitors from within. Those who see this as a major personal challenge will be able to pace themselves and enjoy the adventure and wilderness of this remote area.

Can't we leave it like that?

For me it's just a case that they're often attended by people who aren't quick enough for 'real' racing, so they turn things like that into a race. Ego boost. No different to sportives.

honestly this is not the case, I know some very competitive racers did the Malham race yesterday.

Start with the road, i think most know what a road race is, or what an Audax is, so what is a Sportive?

Move to MTB scene, we have XC races and Downhill races which the rules are fairly clear on what they are. then there are the challenge events, but are they the equivalent of a sportive or an Audax? both, neither???

As for riders, too many riders don't want to loose so choose not to race, but do ride in a manner that is almost racing. but on open tracks where they can't "loose" except to mates. If you don't do well at a challenge event you can't loose, if you do well then you get bragging rights it seems.

Is it possible that Chipps is the exception here, being quite happy to pootle around these "not-a-race" events?

I've entered a few road sportives and have never once considered them a race. The closest I got to that mentality was prior to the advent of bike GPS when I did use the events to try and keep up a good pace as it was the only time I would ride on unfamiliar roads without having to stop and whip out a map every few miles. But since GPS now allows me to do this on any ride I've started to treat sportives as more of a communal cycling day out.

There's a similar situation with the Exmoor Explorer and it was always made very clear at the start briefing that "this is not a race" as it was held on a combination of bridleways and permissive paths. The finish times used to be posted in alphabetical order in an attempt to make it more difficult to compare times.

The finish times used to be posted in alphabetical order in an attempt to make it more difficult to compare times.

but why publish times at all?

Serious question it is a challenge, so what purpose is served by publishing a time when anyone can get the results dump them in excel and then claim to have finished in X position??? If you want to know how long you took that is what cycle computers and watches can do. Only difference is you can't know what other peoples time was.

thinking, I can never remember seeing results published in any form for the HONC, i can remember getting given a finish time when i have done it but no more.

What mrmo said. Remove all timing except a fairly generous maximum allowable time (like an audax) so that the organisers can have a set time that they can start packing up for the day.

There are never results for the HONC other than mentioning who was first home which I guess is a result of sorts but...

For me it's just a case that they're often attended by people who aren't quick enough for 'real' racing, so they turn things like that into a race.

is this a put-down? are you condemning them for not being quick enough to race? if you are, then maybe you're part of the problem.

and i suppose if you want to push the Audax thing further, introduce check point opening times, IF you arrive early you can't be said to have completed until your card is stamped....which means standing around until someone lets you leave.

Then you can race from point to point, but you just get to stand around for longer.

[quote=njee20 ]For me it's just a case that they're often attended by people who aren't quick enough for 'real' racing,
Is it not the case that most road racers are only as quick as they appear because they have a bunch to hide in/behind and that winning is as much about "race-craft" as anything else? If everyone raced TT style then only the truly fastest would win.

only issue I have is that these events are aimed at getting times up so if you just want to pootle then why enter, spaces are limited, you may as well save your money, and let someone who does want to ride it as intended the chance to do so. too many people take up the limited places for these events and just bimble round, I dont mine if youre slow but want to challenge yourself, but dont just waste the limited places.
you can go bimble round any time.

njee20 » For me it's just a case that they're often attended by people who aren't quick enough for 'real' racing,

Probably but hardly suprising. I used to road race and was decent enough at it. Now I'd get shelled out very quickly so there'd be no point me going to a road race. If I did a sportive, I could to some extent replicate road racing even in my shocking state of fitness.

FWIW, I don't really do sportives but I can see why people do and race them.

njee20 - Member
For me it's just a case that they're often attended by people who aren't quick enough for 'real' racing, so they turn things like that into a race. Ego boost. No different to sportives.

I expect better from you. We're not all super fit race Elite gods and never will be.

only issue I have is that these events are aimed at getting times up so if you just want to pootle then why enter, spaces are limited, you may as well save your money, and let someone who does want to ride it as intended the chance to do so. too many people take up the limited places for these events and just bimble round, I dont mine if youre slow but want to challenge yourself, but dont just waste the limited places.
you can go bimble round any time.

so they are races then? which makes most of them illegal?

only issue I have is that these events are aimed at getting times up

Really? I always thought racing (and training) was for getting times up and that these non race events were about increasing participation and having a nice day out with cyclists that you wouldn't otherwise ride with and probably in an area that you wouldn't normally ride.

is this a put-down? are you condemning them for not being quick enough to race? if you are, then maybe you're part of the problem.

No it wasn't meant to be, perhaps I should have used the word "perceive" in there somewhere! I think people perceive that 'real' racing can be too competitive/difficult, so they do non-competitive events and turn them into their own competitions. These things are usually referred to as a race, even when they're clearly not.

Is it not the case that most road racers are only as quick as they appear because they have a bunch to hide in/behind and that winning is as much about "race-craft" as anything else? If everyone raced TT style then only the truly fastest would win.

In part for sure, but I'm prepared to wager the average road racer is fitter than the average sportive participant, and I know plenty of MAMIL types who will gladly tell everyone they did a race at the weekend, meaning a sportive.

I don't mean it in a derogatory fashion at all, it's a certain subset of riders, who I think are drawn to events like this, and display the attitude Chipps talks about.

Not saying in any way that everyone who enters is of that mindset, or that indeed those who are like that aren't necessarily very quick racers.

[quote=njee20 ]
In part for sure, but I'm prepared to wager the average road racer is fitter than the average sportive participant, and I know plenty of MAMIL types who will gladly tell everyone they did a race at the weekend, meaning a sportive.
Sure, but the sort of stuff you do isn't "real" racing either, is it? It's not like you're competing with the really fit/fast guys, so what's the point? 🙂

Very true, but where did I make such a comparison, or say "like me", or anything like that?

I entered it as a race, it said it was a race. I had trained for it, I did nowt the two days before on the bike so I was fresh. I set off like it was a race (anyone in the 9.25 am start wave see my greyhound out of the trap start to confirm?) Got 41.4mph downhill on a xc gheyboi bike, thought it was good course, did not finish though as my spandex was not warm enough, will try and WIN IT next year.

I got three KOM Strava uphill segments on the route as I use this for training and looking back at the stats.

I also race on the road with BC+LVRC, TT's and BCF XC races.

So what??????

I also live on the door step of Rivington and organise un official XC knarlfest races round there with my mates (This is the how MTB all started "back in the day ya know") PM if you fancy a burn up around this area (dropper post/body armour/45 litre ruck sac riders need not apply)

BTW Waste of time this thread.

^^ That encapsulates the sort of attitude I was thinking of just perfectly! 🙄

I'm hoping it's ironic!?

Kingkongsfinger, you've just Alphamaled yourself into my affections 😛

njee20 - Member
^^ That encapsulates the sort of attitude I was thinking of just perfectly!
I'm hoping it's ironic!?

It was race, end of.

Been MTB'ing and racing since 1987, I was born before the "wrapped up in cotton wool culture began and also before the H+S and PC brigade"

(Although we need the above for many of the numpties that ride bikes nowadays that are blindly lead and told what they "NEED" by magazines/websites and forums like this)

Was a good RACE EVENT which was ultimately a bit grim and let down purely by the weather.

For every 'subset' of riders, there is an equal and opposite 'subset' of inverted snobs looking over the rim of their glasses at them, tutting at them for not being in a 'proper' race, or indeed not knowing it wasn't a race (according to them(ETA:the inverted 'snobs', not the subset of riders))

perhaps I should have used the word "perceive" in there somewhere! I think people perceive that 'real' racing can be too competitive/difficult, so they do non-competitive events and turn them into their own competitions

My perceptions of how tough real racing is are based on finding myself right at the back of a proper XC race despite not being all that unfit - when I know I'd still have been up towards the front of any "challenge" type event (yes I know it's not a race, but anybody who reckons nobody will be trying to go faster than the next person even if they have no timing at all is rather naive). As mentioned above, there are several reasons why people prefer challenge events to "proper" racing - firstly that it is too hard and your average punter (who would still like to compete against other punters) will find themselves off the back, which is of course a self-fulfilling prophecy as the punters don't turn up. I'm old enough to have raced back when XC racing was popular, and despite having been a much worse rider then, didn't experience the same issue. Also challenge events get to see lots of the countryside on a varying route, rather than round and round the same little course. Finally there's the distance involved - challenges tend to be longer, which certainly suits me personally.

It is very similar in a way to the debate about road racing vs. sportives. I always reckoned lower cat road races were too short and on terrain which wasn't challenging enough - almost every one I ever entered finished in a bunch sprint as there was nothing to split the field. A totally different challenge to sportives in terms of terrain. I'll wave my willy here as I was once the fastest finisher in a little local sportive - I'm not all that sure we were racing though, as I certainly never really had the intention of trying to beat the other chaps who were in the little group we formed at the front (we even stopped to wait for one chap at the top of a climb part way round, and then when it was down to 2 I stopped to wait for the other chap when he had a mechanical), it was just a case of the others dropping off the pace in the tougher bits of the course.

njee20
^^ That encapsulates the sort of attitude I was thinking of just perfectly!
I'm hoping it's ironic!?

(encapsulates) In what respect njee? 😯

 

I have a new favourite line from this thread, thanks.

did not finish though as my spandex was not warm enough

I woory because I have sat down with some of the people who if impacted by this type of event be writing very strong letter to the local council, NT and local landowners with every intent of using it as a case for reducing MTB access, they sit on the Local Access Forums and have long memories and bear grudges

A strongly worded letter? Ooh I'm worried already. Seriously these guys don't actually make the law on access, so I'm struggling to see how they can prevent us from riding on BWs no matter how upset they get. If MTB access was being significantly increased by such forums, and this was likely to be set back then there might be an issue, but it isn't is it?

The elephant in the room here is the archaic law about racing on BWs. Yes we can legally race on FPs (as I have many times), but as soon as you meet a BW you have to cross then you're tiptoeing around the law. Oh, but if you strap an engine to your bicycle then all of a sudden it is then legal to race on a BW. The big issue here isn't non-compliance with the law, it's the stupidity of the law. It did even get brought up in parliament during the debate on the most recent bill about access, but the minister concerned appeared to completely misunderstand the issue and dismissed it out of hand (if anybody can remind me what that bill is and so give me a clue where to start I'll try and dig up the relevant quotes from Hansard). What we should be doing is working on a concerted campaign to repeal the current law, rather than complaining about people breaking it.

Been MTB'ing and racing since 1987, I was born before the "wrapped up in cotton wool culture began and also before the H+S and PC brigade"

so you were wearing the black alpaca tights then? when they kicked up a fuss over mass start road races?

Cycle racing on Bridleways has always been banned, nothing to do with H&S. If you don't like it compaign to get the law changed, or accept it isn't a race and that you will have to give way as and when necessary.

local council, [b]NT and local landowners[/b]

Pretty sure that the last two can restrict access if they choose and it's not actually a RoW...

I wish you'd get over this obsession with whether it's legal or not fella, quite simply, we don't CARE !!!! Not in the slightest...

too many people take up the limited places for these events and just bimble round, I dont mine if youre slow but want to challenge yourself, but dont just waste the limited places.
you can go bimble round any time.

of course it depends whether it's a proper sportive or is actually a race that can't afford full insurance/find a decent course so is mislabelled a sportive.

At the semantic level, calling something a challenge is going to make people 'challenge' themselves. Usually by trying to complete the challenge quickly, as opposed to seeing who can stare off at the view for the longest...though I kind of like this idea!

I guess if it was called a 'bimble' or something similar you'd get a different type of entrant and a different atmosphere.

It's unlikely the organisers gave it the wrong name by accident, so they were probably looking to take on some of the attributes that the word 'challenge' inspires.

Interesting read on where MTB is these days.

imo the appeal of the early (late 80s-very early 90s) races was that an average rider wasn't miles off the pace aside from the front few and could have some fun during the event. Whereas now XC races seem to be a smaller, faster crowd? Or at least that seems to be common perception. So 'events' pull in the average riders who still want a bit of race sport without the pressure or seriousness associated with 'proper racing', as well as fast riders who want a different challenge outside of lap-based races.
Since NPS-style racing is almost a side-line niche now, events are filling the need for the majority and that seems to be close to where it was in the early days.

Bike events should be whatever you make of them, as long as you're not one of those shouty idiots barging past people in a race for 27th place.

too many people take up the limited places for these events and just bimble round, I dont mine if youre slow but want to challenge yourself, but dont just waste the limited places.

Sancho - Member

only issue I have is that these events are aimed at getting times up so if you just want to pootle then why enter, spaces are limited, you may as well save your money, and let someone who does want to ride it as intended the chance to do so. too many people take up the limited places for these events and just bimble round,

Ironically every race organiser in the world would say the opposite- numbers of races are related to demand. More bimblers = more races. Often no bimblers = no race at all.

I wish you'd get over this obsession with whether it's legal or not fella, quite simply, we don't CARE !!!! Not in the slightest...

you don't have to care, i assume that when the landowner sues you for damages, or blocks the trails. etc you won't care. When the landowner in the case of the NT invokes the bylaws, racing on a bridleway means you will be tresspassing, and takes you to court for tresspass, i guess you won't care. In future when someone wants to organise an event and this gets thrown in their face you won't care?

When the landowner applies for the trail to be closed or rerouted, you won't care, etc, etc.

The stupid thing is you can race on a footpath!!!!

[url= http://imba.org.uk/public-rights-of-way/cycle-racing-on-bridleways/ ]http://imba.org.uk/public-rights-of-way/cycle-racing-on-bridleways/[/url]

Pretty sure that the last two can restrict access if they choose and it's not actually a RoW...

Where is there such access not on a RoW?

Slightly bizarre in any case, as the suggestion appears to be that access will be removed from trails which it is legal to race on because people have raced on trails which it isn't legal to race on. Presumably if people had raced on the trails you're proposing they might withdraw access from then there wouldn't actually be a problem?

Is spandex the same thing as lycra then? Genuine question, I've never heard a cyclist, let alone someone claiming to be racer, call it spandex.

I havent read all this but what I have read I agree with Crikey and Oldgit.

Its not racing if nobody else knows its a race and unless everyone agrees its a race "winning" means FA.

To you. Not necessarily to everyone. Hence the thread 😉

i assume that when the landowner sues you for damages, or blocks the trails. etc you won't care.

Sues you for damaging a RoW? If you can point out to me where that has ever happened I might accept you have a point. Blocks a RoW? Well that would be illegal.

When the landowner in the case of the NT invokes the bylaws, racing on a bridleway means you will be tresspassing, and takes you to court for tresspass

Which bylaw is that exactly? I don't see any mention in the law about racing on BWs of it revoking your RoW.

When the landowner applies for the trail to be closed or rerouted

The BW? I think you'll find they have to have rather greater cause than that somebody raced down it one day to do that (even assuming they can prove that actually happened).

Its not racing if nobody else knows its a race and unless everyone agrees its a race "winning" means FA.

I doubt those who are "racing" care all that much what you think! Most of us are happy that it isn't officially a race, just that some are upset at people going as fast as possible and trying to be faster than other people unless an event is properly sanctioned.

What we should be doing is working on a concerted campaign to repeal the current law, rather than complaining about people breaking it.

Spandex is used sometimes in the US instead of lyca.

It has a ring to it, a certain panache, I use it instead of lyca as it amuses me. (small things blah blah)

BTW The name "spandex" is an anagram of the word "expands".

mrmo - Member

Been MTB'ing and racing since 1987, I was born before the "wrapped up in cotton wool culture began and also before the H+S and PC brigade"

so you were wearing the black alpaca tights then? when they kicked up a fuss over mass start road races?

Cycle racing on Bridleways has always been banned, nothing to do with H&S. If you don't like it compaign to get the law changed, or accept it isn't a race and that you will have to give way as and when necessary.

One word....spinaci

lycra is a branded elastic

Spandex is used sometimes in the US instead of lyca.

I like racing to the extent that most mass start enduro/challenge/fun events don't really appeal to me. Who wants to queue to ride sections, or be held up so badly you have to freewheel the best bits?* I'm not the kind of racer who barges past people either, but I do like to ride as hard as my waning speed and fitness allow. I can't say that I'm excited about the prospect of being routed over lots of boring non technical wide track and even tarmac just to link the decent bits together either. Give me a solid XC course any day, especially if it's on private land and you get to ride non IMBA compliant sections because the land gets to recover for a year.

It seems to me that if you think you're some kind of hero for overtaking hordes of fun riders with little fitness and/or off-road experience, but think XC racing is too serious or poncy, then you might want to think about that fragile ego of yours and have a proper look at racing because for most it's done for exactly the same reasons of fun and personal challenge.

The law does seem to be an ass on bridleways, but while it is, even untimed mass or staggered start events don't seem responsible to me because deep down most of us are competitive to some extent, so it's bound to end up in bad publicity for mtb at some point giving fuel to the anti mtb access nut jobs.

* The exception I'll grant is the Roc D'Azur event. Getting held up by the sheer number of riders was frustrating after puncturing 3 times, but it is just so brilliant I'll forgive it this weakness. If you get national series point though you should get an earlier start wave though.

One word....spinaci

and,

Nothing wrong with resting your forearms on the tops if your not racing, i find i get a uncomfortable after a couple of miles. I was under the impression commisiares don't tend to look favourably at it...

Don't have a major issue if it is more like an Audax reliability trial (ie "here's a set of checkpoints, navigate round them, no marshalls, no route markings, can't average faster than XXXX mph"). Do have an issue if it uses the word "race" anywhere in the promotion, or there is a "winner", or best time is a key part of taking part.

So what's the deal if I just happen to be going for a walk/hike on one of these footpaths/bridlepaths? Will every rider slow down? ring a bell? expect me to step out of the way in good time so that they don't lose time or flow? Will a marshall stop me and prevent me from walking the footpath/bridlepath? or warn me that there is a "race", so pay attention to faster than normal cyclists? or just advise me that there are more cyclists than normal, so be aware?

The BW? I think you'll find they have to have rather greater cause than that somebody raced down it one day to do that (even assuming they can prove that actually happened).

quite word with the council and it is amazing what you can achieve....

It seems to me that if you think you're some kind of hero for overtaking hordes of fun riders with little fitness and/or off-road experience, but think XC racing is too serious or poncy, then you might want to think about that fragile ego of yours and have a proper look at racing because for most it's done for exactly the same reasons of fun and personal challenge.

There are a whole load of riders out there who do have fitness and plenty of off-road experience (I'll include myself in that lot) but are intimidated or put-off by racing. However they'd still like to take part in an event and once on the start line can't help but compete. I'd suggest that these "challenge" events are the direct equivalent of the grass-roots racing that was the old breeding ground of racers and that many of the riders go on to race "properly".

quite word with the council and it is amazing what you can achieve....

Oh yes? How many BWs have been extinguished that you know of? Are you even aware of the procedure required to do so?

Spoke to another forum member about this today, and it does look like there are grey areas.
As someone that races road, cyclo cross and a bit of XC I see events as just that, events.
But as I said as we talked we came across grey areas. I see 24's as races, but there will be hundreds of folk just having fun. Then there's the CLIC I did some years back, and they were very clear that that 24 wasn't a race as it used some BWs.
So on a personal note, a challenge ride would be a social. I'd ride quick sticks, but I'd chat at food stops or ride alongside someone for a chat.
In my head what is a race and what isn't is very clear.
I suppose you would need to know what the 'event' was classed as when the organizers sought all the permissions and insurances? I wonder if the organizers of the event called it a race then.

stilltortoise, it doesn't sound like you're in it for the ego trip, so that wasn't really aimed at people like you, but I wonder why you feel intimidated by racing, it's not really any less accessible. IMO you swap the crowds for more excitement. It also led me to at least trying road, cyclocross, and track racing with virtually no experience, just a willingness to give it a go.

so that wasn't really aimed at people like you

Fair enough, I didn't think so, but it only reinforces the point I was making which is that there's a market for an event that isn't a full on race but isn't a non-competitive pootle. Maybe such events don't [i]officially[/i] exist, but the very fact Chipps has started this thread and the very responses it has generated show that is how they are approached by many. Does it really matter and if so what can be done about it?

As for the intimidation factor of races, I'm not sure why I have this, but it's what put me off joining a (road) cycling club for years, since it always appeared to be about time trial this and race that. I finally joined a club last year and have loved getting out on the club rides with them, but I'm still nervous about competing in a race I know I have no chance of being competitive in. That's not to say I don't enjoy giving it some beans on the club rides now and again 🙂

Whenever someone says

"It's not a race"

one of my mates says

"what sort of race isn't it ?"

Stilltortoise, the best advice I can give to anyone in your market is to find a local race series and give it a go. You might just surprise yourself, I think I came third in my first Beginner race and that was riding from the back because I didn't think I'd be competitive so I didn't want to get in anyone's way at the start. You might be intimidated for 5 minutes at your first ever race, but frankly if you've done big events, the organisation and scale is usually distinctly grass roots, and flash bikes and kit does not necessarily indicate a rider is fast or fit.

Depending on your fitness there are fun/beginner, open, and sport categories designed to give you access. You won't be racing against the elites, experts, or even the masters, just the weekend warriors and maybe some Juniors. Most people aren't going to be competitive for the win, top 5, or even the top 10, but they still enjoy racing against those at their approximate level, the course, and the event atmosphere.

If there's more than one person on the trail. It's a race.

Londonerinoz, I confess the intimidation factor was really in relation to road races. Having "competed" against all sorts of MTB fast boys (including Nick Craig!) at the Singletrack Weekender, I know a race doesn't have to be intimidating.

Oh yes? How many BWs have been extinguished that you know of? Are you even aware of the procedure required to do so?

extinguished, agreed, but rerouted plenty. Some for very stupid reasons and the creation of routes that are crap.

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byelaws_in_the_United_Kingdom ]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byelaws_in_the_United_Kingdom[/url]

Plenty of scope for criminal prosecution if the landowner sees fit.

Yes, I'm aware of the existence of byelaws - I was asking for the details of the one which meant you were trespassing if racing on a BW.

Evidence of racing on a BW still isn't a valid reason for rerouting it, whatever anecdotes you might have.

Yes, I'm aware of the existence of byelaws - I was asking for the details of the one which meant you were trespassing if racing on a BW

the trespass is probably by the organiser of the race rather than the individuals. The individuals are commiting a highways offence which is a criminal act

the issues with racing on bridleways are set out quite sensibly here http://imba.org.uk/public-rights-of-way/cycle-racing-on-bridleways/

based on the responses on here you couldn't get rider compliance with the restrictions (giving way etc) and therefore I wouldn't organise an event based on bridleways even if it was legal

Fair enough, I didn't think so, but it only reinforces the point I was making which is that there's a market for an event that isn't a full on race but isn't a non-competitive pootle. Maybe such events don't officially exist, but the very fact Chipps has started this thread and the very responses it has generated show that is how they are approached by many. Does it really matter and if so what can be done about it?

there are plenty of events that go out of their way to encourage people to "have-a-go", it's just percieved as an easier option to enter a "challenge" event

the trespass is probably by the organiser of the race rather than the individuals. The individuals are commiting a highways offence which is a criminal act

I don't think an organisor can commit trespass by proxy. In any case I was referring to the previous statement "When the landowner in the case of the NT invokes the bylaws, racing on a bridleway means you will be tresspassing, and takes you to court for tresspass" which clearly refers to the people actually racing.

I'm aware of the legislation and it is still an anachronism. Would you refuse to organise an event which uses BWs as well as the FPs and multi-use forest tracks currently used by such events (with BWs carefully avoided) where competitors do respect other trail users and manage without conflict? I've competed in a few of those, and it is very strange the way BWs have to be treated differently. I think you're confusing non-acceptance of the current law with lack of courtesy for other users.

Oh, and I've also taken part in events which were strictly speaking illegal under the current law (and an awful lot of events which skirt around the edges on the basis that given free route choice and that everybody goes different ways it's not racing even though it's a timed competition where prizes are awarded). I've never heard of a conflict between different trail users in any of those events, whatever the stupid law might say.