[Closed] What's the point of wide handlebars?

I see your point,there are good points,for instance wide handlebars open up the breathing space for the lungs when climbing,I can see this to be a big advantage for,there will be more folk along with more advantages,hope I have helped.

And no,700 is ample.

700mm is narrow now.

I have a pair of 680's in the shed,can't imagine using those anymore.

Along with discs, wide bars rank up there.
Genuine progress IMO.

Less thruppeny bitting, nicer stance, better fit.

720 is plenty for me, or else I start hitting trees.

I feel like I'm more in control and less of a passenger.

...allows you to graze your knuckles on trees when riding tight singletrack. Unfortunately the foresters in these parts didn't get the memo that said they need to move the trees wider apart.

Its a manliness gauge. Grrrr.

My ability to stay on the bike after clipping obstacles has improved a lot thanks to wide bars as I clip trees so often I've got the knack of managing to avoid an OTB 😀

Key to wide bars though is a shorter stem. Cuts down on the front wandering about and brings the wider reach closer so it's not such a stretch out. Likewise if you were thinking of a shorter stem for forward reach purposes, wider bars are recommended to compensate for steering issues with short bars and short stem.

Balance innit

[img] [/img]

I think it's related to shoulder width and torso length.

I also think that some are too wide - your elbow is nearly straight, less opportunity for bump absorption and movement around the bike.

I just put 800s on my full-sus and OMFG they feel so good it's ridiculous. Over the last two years that bike has gone from 711 to 750 and now 800 (all with a 50mm stem actually). However, that's a bike for riding fast/steep/techy stuff - not for pottering about, where I suspect such massive width would feel rather silly.

I think the bars on my MTB with the toddler seat (WeeRide) has 670mm bars and I wouldn't want them any wider for that purpose. And my hardtail is getting the old 750s because that's the sensible limit for our main area of local singletrack (which is tighter than anywhere else I've ever ridden).

As not everyone is built the same we all have different width shoulders, I feel so much more comfortable on the bike up near 800.then there is the control aspects.

[quote=ricky1 ]I see your point,there are good points,for instance wide handlebars open up the breathing space for the lungs when climbing

You should tell those TdF riders, because they clearly struggle climbing hills with their 420mm bars.

What size drops do you use Aracer?

I've gone from 42 to 46 and noticed the same improvements in comfort and control that I did when going wider on the MTB.

I don't do time trials BTW. 🙂

I just went and measured mine, 560mm. Works fine for me.

[Edit] As there's all sorts of talk about shoulder width I measured across my shoulders too, somewhere between 500mm and 520mm

I possess stupidly wide shoulders - hence my preferred bar-width (prefer about 750 yet currently self-limited to 700mm as encounter narrow trails often) may not have been the 'correct' width for (say) Stan Laurel..

+1 for opening up the chest so lungs may breathe big and free on those climbs.

I'm on 40cm road bars (42 on the crosser and tandem), though I've now embraced wide on my MTB and have 600 bars on that 😉 I think 42cm is now fairly standard in the peleton - that's apparently what Cav is using - though plenty on narrower bars than that, apparently 38 is becoming fairly common.

You'll also not find XC pros on superwide bars - sure they're wider than they used to be, but almost all on less than 700. Either they're doing something wrong, or wider bars don't really improve your performance by helping you breath easier.

I'm not a pro racer.

I don't worry about how my seating position compares to Jenson Button's before driving to the shop for some milk either.

That's fine, whatever works for you, I'm not suggesting you should use narrower bars - I'm guessing you don't suggest that your seating position helps your driving performance. If wider bars really did help open up the lungs for climbing then you'd think the pros would notice the issue.

You may well be right.

I seem to remember some pro or other banging on about the advantages of narrow bars in something I've read recently - David Millar?

I just find them comfier.
My lungs are screwed anyway and I have all the aerodynamic efficiency of a bungalow.

Did you ever work out where we met BTW? 🙂

Dunno why but the thing is, every time I go wider, I can't go back. I've gone up about 10mm a year without fail since I got my 710mm easton wide dh bars. Bar inflation, death and taxes. 780mm seems to be my limit mind but then I thought that when I tried 760mm a few years ago.

And yep sometimes it genuinely is too wide for the trail- there's a tree gap in the pentlands that I can't ride any more. But I just like how it feels, it just basically feels more right and puts me naturally into a better riding position.

My hybrid has 750mm bars 😳 Going from the mtbs to commuting just felt really odd.

And yep sometimes it genuinely is too wide for the trail- there's a tree gap in the pentlands that I can't ride any more.

[quote=Rusty Spanner ]Did you ever work out where we met BTW?

I'd forgotten we had - presumably you mentioned it before? Not on ton's touring weekend?

You posted a pic of yourself on some ridiculous one wheeled conveyance.
🙂

I remarked that I'd met you, small world etc.
You enquired as to the circs, but I didn't reply as I'd not noticed your response until much later.

Just trying to be pleasant to a fellow forumite. No matter.

I've got 740 on my HT (50mm stem), 760 on my susser (70mm stem), and 685 flat bars on my Pantera (90mm stem). At some point in time those felt spot on but they feel weird and narrow now (but totally fine for about town)

Get him to try 700mm and if they're too big then trim them. My guess is that he'll probs be fine with them as they are.

I don't really see the point if you're just cruising on relatively tame tracks and trails, does anyone suggest otherwise?

There is no point. You should ride what you are comfortable with not what others use.

I ride on easy single track and fire roads and use 600mm bars. Any narrower and I feel cramped and have less control, any wider and it feels like I am steering a ship and my arms feel splayed out.

For me 600mm gives me quick steering, good control and comfort so perfect.

I ride on easy single track and fire roads and use 600mm bars. Any narrower

You can buy bars less than 600mm??!?!?

Short stem, wide bars= more control, even just pottering along a towpath I prefer that feeling of confidence it inspires, I think the arms out balancing pic above explains it well.

I'd say it's partly related to bike geometry/slackness, overall balance/feel, and the way the bar width creates a wider-top triangle between grips and contact patch and how the wider that is in proportion to the height the more control you can get in corners, till your bars drag the dirt. It's also about bar shape and the rest of the bike, wide doesn't suit some bike at all.
If I crouch down and put my fists in front of me in a stable but 'ready' position with muscles relaxed/neutral they end up about 750-780mm apart - a tad wider than I like on most bikes but for max tech ability that'd be right.

700mm bars were fairly common for jumpy XC bikes in the late 90s so they've not grown as much as it seems, maybe it was more that silly-narrow 1991 bars took ages to die out. Roadie-ism in MTB : )

In your Dad's case, just put whatever width he's comfortable with.

I rode my HT last night and it has a pair of old Easton Monkey DH carbons on it - felt seriously narrow after riding my FS with wide Renthals on it. Crackers really, as when I bought them 711mm was DH wide!

I seem to remember some pro or other banging on about the advantages of narrow bars in something I've read recently

On the road at speed, better aerodynamics from a narrower frontal area. That's the theory anyway, I've no idea if it's supported by any data, but it hasn't stopped me putting 40cm bars on the race bike.....

To be honest, how bothered is your retired father going to be about bar width? He's better off just cracking on than reading this thread.

For the sake of adding to the pile, I have 780 bars and 50mm stems on 3 bikes because I want them to feel the same and I like man handling them on rough trails. Narrow bars just feel dangerous by comparison but on a canal path I doubt I'd care.

So opening your arms out giving your chest more room to breath doesn't help your breathing,what planet are you on a racer,I'm not talking about Chris froom and the likes of cavendish,I'm talking about his father that might find it a bit easier.

Surely putting your arms closer together having the effect of restricting your breathing is only an issue if you have considerable moobs/boobs?

I like to think I could ride with narrower bars and still breathe normally. That said, I have 780 bars...
Must be the moobage...
😀

I remember one of my riding buddies using Sunline 745s about 4 years ago, they just seemed utterly daft. Like steering a boat - I was on Easton 660 Monkeylites at the time. 745 is about standard now.

Moved up to 685 and it felt a little better, I'm now on 711s which seem perfect for me.

711 is unfashionably narrow now which is probably why I got rather nice Easton Haven Carbon bars for just £59 but wide enough for me

http://inrng.com/2013/01/whats-new-with-rider-position/

North wind +1.

My narrowest bar is 777mm now!

Given the amount of cynicism on the bike industry thread, i'm surprised no one has mentioned a conspiracy. It's not like you can make narrow bars wider, you have to buy new bars 😉

I've 750 on my FS and alternate between 720 + 740 on the HT. The 750's were 780 from new but i had them cut in the shop as they felt too wide (i have longer arms and torso than most and wide-ish shoulders). I do have a habit of hanging my palms off the end of my bars to help with steering (no matter how wide/narrow they are - something i picked up riding motorbikes) and there's no way i could x-up with anything wider that 750. I guess, like all things, it's personal.

[i]mostly for exploring landrover tracks and forest roads...

I don't really see the point if you're just cruising on relatively tame tracks and trails[/i]

There isn't any. My Singlespeed dog walking bike has 660mm Monkey Bars as there are narrow gates to go through where I take the dog. I don't have any need for wider bars on these tracks. (Or a short stem) (Or suspension) (Or gears)

I'm guessing the bikes are being sold with the 700mm - I'd just leave them on. Cut them down if he says they don't feel right, or get in the way.

Problem you have with this thread is that hardly anyone reads your actual post, just the title, then bangs away about how wide their bars are for shredding the gnar.

No he'll be fine. No hindrance at all.

it can help with body position etc but its no biggie.

I seriously doubt that someone who isn't a regular cyclist will get on a new bike and even consider the width of the bars.

Narrower ones will fit through smaller doors.

Euro - Member

Given the amount of cynicism on the bike industry thread, i'm surprised no one has mentioned a conspiracy. It's not like you can make narrow bars wider, you have to buy new bars

Well they had a crack at it with 35mm bars but luckily the internet, despite having not tried it, decided they were too stiff so its entire impact has been to make it hard to shop for short stems.

I didn't know the UCI had a maximum bike width... I spent ages trying to find wider drop bars!

[quote="ricky1"]So opening your arms out giving your chest more room to breath doesn't help your breathing,what planet are you on a racer,LOL.
Beyond a certain point (very slightly over shoulder width) it makes no difference how wide you go for breathing. Unless you are massively overweight. Then it's your knees crushing your gut you need to worry about.

TBH for 99% of what 99% of those on here actually do (not what they [i]say[/i] they do) a nice sub 600mm bar would do just fine. Same as the OPs dad. Just ride what's fitted.

ghostlymachine - Member

TBH for 99% of what 99% of those on here actually do (not what they say they do) a nice sub 600mm bar would do just fine.

Of course it'd [i]do[/i]. It'd just be shit, is all.

ghostlymachine - Member = GW?

[quote=Rusty Spanner ]You enquired as to the circs, but I didn't reply as I'd not noticed your response until much later.
Just trying to be pleasant to a fellow forumite. No matter.

I'm not good at guessing games - there's quite a long list of possible places I've ridden that - would love to know where it was. Apologies if I've come across as being rude 🙁

[quote=ricky1 ]So opening your arms out giving your chest more room to breath doesn't help your breathing,what planet are you on a racer,I'm not talking about Chris froom and the likes of cavendish,I'm talking about his father that might find it a bit easier.

The planet where it's not only the road pros (and the MAMILs) with much narrower bars, but also the XC pros who are almost all on <700 despite aerodynamics not making a big difference. The anatomy of Froome, Absalon at el isn't any different from the rest of us, so if there's no breathing advantage to them of wider bars, there won't be for you. I doubt the OP's father would notice or care, it certainly sounds unlikely he's pushing his limits on the climbs.

I'm not suggesting there are no advantages to wider bars, and can understand that for many people they're even more comfortable, simply that the breathing one is spurious.

[quote="chakaping"]ghostlymachine - Member = GW?Pardon?

No worries Aracer, I know I often come across as a complete and utter knob, no offence meant, I can assure you.
🙂

I think we met at the TdF, not far from where I live in Burnley?

Met loads of people I knew that day - I THINK it was you, having seen your photo.
Apologies if not.
😐

Enjoy meeting fellow STW'ers, don't think I've met anyone I didn't actually like yet.

[quote="Northwind"]Of course it'd do. It'd just be shit, is all.Well no, it wouldn't, you'd not notice the missing width. As all the "advantages" don't apply for most people (or are complete bollocks, you decide), it's just a load of extra metal sticking out the side.

[quote=Rusty Spanner ]I think we met at the TdF, not far from where I live in Burnley?

Ah, no, wasn't me then. Saw a TT stage on the Tour of Britain somewhere near there about 15 years ago (before I rode silly one wheeled things), but haven't been to the TdF there or anywhere else.

You do remind me that I also have a set of 12cm wide handlebars - though in that case I can steer without the bars and the leverage is down to how long the "stem" is - which is about 40cm from the steering axis - they also need to be narrower than my knees so I can dismount without catching them 😉

[i] it's just a load of extra metal sticking out the side.[/i]

You're holding the bars in the wrong place matey.

ghostlymachine - Member

Well no, it wouldn't, you'd not notice the missing width.

Complete and utter bollocks. You must think we're stupid tbh.

Well no, it wouldn't, you'd not notice the missing width. As all the "advantages" don't apply for most people

Ahahaha, nobody benefits from +600mm bars! Classic STW.

One example, i rode my dj bike the other day. Bars around 640...i almost got flipped as the front wheel twisted on a rock. I know my trail bike wouldn't have been anywhere near as sketchy as the extra leverage would have corrected the wheel instantly without any active input from me.

And using 780 bars i ride the twistiest of trails no bother, you just learn to lean the bike at short notice!

In short, slightly wider bars than stock will be much comfier for your pap.

One example, i rode my dj bike the other day. Bars around 640...i almost got flipped as the front wheel twisted on a rock. I know my trail bike wouldn't have been anywhere near as sketchy as the extra leverage would have corrected the wheel instantly without any active input from me.

Bet your trail bike has a much slacker HA than your jump bike. I know mine had (and it had 700mm bars). I also bet your trail bike forks are plusher too.

Don't know if i have a point, but i think there's a 'window of sweetness' when it comes to handling/turning of a bike. Raking out he head angle probably makes this window smaller but widening the bars might go some way to increasing the WOS. A steep HA and wide bars would handle poorly especially if the forks were set on the soft side, removing the WOS entirely and replacing it with the 'windowsill of instability'. Never good to be on the windowsill.

I've a spreadsheet that has calculations showing the WOS for most head angles, bar widths [i]and[/i] stem lengths. It's worth a look - just to check you're not on the 'sill. [url= ]Here[/url]

A steep HA and wide bars would handle poorly

Euro - Member

I've a spreadsheet that has calculations showing the WOS for most head angles, bar widths and stem lengths. It's worth a look - just to check you're not on the 'sill

All I could see was some cool body painting and a prickly pear cactus?

Not you on the Pickenflick then Aracer?
How disappointing.

I wonder who it was - they said they were on here quite regularly.

Only around 720mm here, not adverse to longer bars but during the Summer had a few "moments" due to getting hand/bar caught in bramble or general undergrowth.

As much due to my poor riding as anything else though. lol

Narrow bars feel very twitchy to me. When I test ride my wife's bike it feels really narrow and unstable. It's perfectly fine for canal paths though and a distinct advantage through bridges and in the tunnels - I'm scraping the walls 🙂

When I sprained my wrist badly in summer 2014 and couldn't ride my 740mm or 780mm bars. I found my old 680mm bars were perfect though and I was able to rehabilitate the sprained wrist slowly (4-6 weeks) until I could put the wider bars back on and feel comfortable again. Kept the 50mm stem throughout.

I'd say the major advantage of wider bars comes in when you're in rock gardens or ruts and the front wheel is being guided away from you by the trail. With wider bars you have a lot more leverage to keep the front wheel where you want it to be.

I don't tend to notice the jump from 740 (10mm rise) to 780 (20mm rise) much though when I jump on the different travel bikes. It takes seconds to adjust. I notice the 2 degree head angle difference (67/65) more if I've ridden one more than the other for a few rides. Both 50mm stem and 600mm ETT bikes. I had considered putting the same bar on both when I upgraded to carbon bars but I felt comfortable on both bikes. Personal preference I guess.

Yikes, hadn't seen how this one had grown, had forgotten to check back in!

To be honest, how bothered is your retired father going to be about bar width? He's better off just cracking on than reading this thread.

Yes, very true. Maybe I should have rephrased the question as 'Are there any drawbacks to wide bars for someone who doesn't care about the extra control'.

Instinctively I can't imagine the wider stance being more comfortable, seems like you'd need to engage more muscles the wider the bars get.

Ultimately he'll ride what the bike comes with and cut if necessary. I'll also be referring back to this thread if I ever buy the new Superfly I've been eyeing up to use as a sort of suspended CX bike for the week of wrist 8)

Ahahaha, nobody benefits from +600mm bars! Classic STW.

I don't think anyone has actually said that though have they?

They've said that for a lot of people and many kinds of riding then wide bars offer little benefit, like the one described in the OP, and in some cases offer negatives.

And there's been some debunking of the 'wide bars help you breath better' statement, based on some fairly good and real examples.

There's also the acceptance that people are different sizes and so it's no surprise that some people like bars of different widths (just like top tubes, seatposts etc.)

The general trend upwards in recent years is no bad thing but please don;t pretend that it's a one size fits all thing and that everyone must ride wider bars or else they're missing out on something.

So i'll reply with

Ahahaha, people not reading the OP, misreading responses and making generalisations Classic STW!

I'll wade in on the breathing thing too, why not. 🙂

I don't see runners holding their arms further apart to get more air in their lungs.

From reading "Faster" by Michael Hutchinson, when British Cycling were exploring any and every avenue for marginal gains on the track, they looked at bar width and realised the reasons that had stopped people going narrower than a certain width weren't really an issue, and they went narrower. And the perceived drawbacks were about steering stability, not breathing. Max aerobic capacity is fairly important in track cycling, from what I gather.

And back to the OP, I wouldn't worry about your Dad on 700mm bars.

If you feel like it, you can always move the controls and grips in board for him on a trial, and if he prefers it, lop off the excess.

Wife's got 720s. I'll be doing the same soon enough.

Yes, very true. Maybe I should have rephrased the question as 'Are there any drawbacks to wide bars for someone who doesn't care about the extra control'.

As long as they don't make the reach from saddle to grip too long, then no, there aren't. Look at the handlebars and geometry of bikes over the last century and you'll see some really wide bars on comfier generic bikes. You wouldn't want the effective reach a modern enduro bike with wide bar has on a bike that's just for cruising around, it's not a relaxing body position.

For road racing there are clearly aero disadvantages with wider bars whilst with mountain biking there are tree gap disadvantages.

I think it depends on the bike. Head angle, and wheel size are important factors. I tried 760 and 740 on my old Patriot, and they felt awful. Handling was so slow, and riding position just uncomfortable. But then it's an old bike with old geometry, so old width bars seem to make sense.

It was a flat bar though, so I'd like to try a 720 or 740mm riser, if anyone has one..?

[quote=gelert ]Narrow bars feel very twitchy to me.

Whilst I acknowledge the point you mention about better leverage in rock gardens, I suspect that is largely down to familiarity - that and it's only a sample of one, where there could be lots of other things different. I have a feeling this may also be stem length related - I'm also still running a fairly (very by modern standards) long stem on my bike with "narrow" 600mm bars.

I should probably try wider bars at some point, but I doubt I'll suddenly become all gnar as a result.

Whilst I acknowledge the point you mention about better leverage in rock gardens, I suspect that is largely down to familiarity - that and it's only a sample of one, where there could be lots of other things different. I have a feeling this may also be stem length related - I'm also still running a fairly (very by modern standards) long stem on my bike with "narrow" 600mm bars.

I don't think that's the case at all. I'm very familiar with 750mm bars and 50mm stem - I've been riding a bike with them a number of times a week for over a year. I put 800mm bars on this bike, rode it up a fire road for a few minutes and went straight into a fairly rough fast descent at full speed. They felt good. I then rode a bit more and pushed up a steep techy slippery descent, turned around at the top and charged down it. Got to the bottom and despite there being no-one to talk to couldn't help but rave to the empty forest about how bloody awesome these wider bars are.

I think you've missed the point - my suggestion is that narrower bars than gelert is used to feel twitchy because of familiarity with wider ones.

Narrow bars feel twitchy because they are more twitchy, like a smaller steering wheel on a quicker rack. Just like steeper head angles, shorter wheelbases and higher bottom brackets. It's about finding a balance between stability to the point that you cannot change a bike's direction of travel vs instability to the point that you cannot keep a bike travelling on its intended path.

Unlike the other changes, wider bars do not affect the inherent stability of the vehicle but they slow the steering speed and increase the steering leverage, giving you more torque to control the vehicle (both through steering and leaning).

If you're still riding 600mm bars then you don't have a very good frame of reference! My first MTB in 1988 predated the stupid narrow bar trend of the '90s, which was a completely anomalous decade in terms of off road bike handlebars over the last century. Sadly my second MTB no longer had a short stem and big wide swept back riser bars, instead having a long stem and narrow flat bars. I'm glad those bad days are mostly behind us, even though narrow bar advocates decry wide bars as a trend, which is clearly not the case if you look at the bigger picture.

I've never believed that bollocks about being able to breath better.

For me, its about leverage and control, both the ability to really heave a turn into rough ground without wheel tucking or trapping on the obstacle, and also steering accuracy, by increasing fine control via mechanical advantage. The former is about exerting more force when required, so you can overcome the force of the wheel deflection and continue to steer, the latter is about increasing the 'ratio' between hand input and the steerer, so that finer steering inputs can be achieve with greater accuracy.

I found wider bars showed up my flexible wheels more as a result.

I do like the feel of wider bars but limit for me is 750mm - even then I struggle at times to fit through trees.

[quote=chiefgrooveguru ]If you're still riding 600mm bars then you don't have a very good frame of reference!

It's a sufficient frame of reference to know that bars that wide don't make a bike twitchy (any more than 40cm wide bars on a road bike do). Sure it might be a bit more twitchy than a bike with wider bars, but on the basis of leverage only 20% more so than 720mm bars, which isn't really "very", particularly given that for most non gnar riding leverage doesn't really come into it as you're not yanking the bike around by the bars, you're sterring by leaning - most of the difference is surely a psychological one due to what you're accustomed to. I'm accustomed to bars that narrow and they're fine. unconvinced by your quicker rack analogy, because there isn't a quicker rack, just a smaller steering wheel.

Maybe this just comes down to your riding - if you're a XC rider that avoid the most technical descents and revels in the climbs, narrower bars will suit you better. If you like to take your time up the hills and get as rough and fast as you can down, then wider bars are unquestionably best.

<700mm, lycra, you love waxing your legs, talking for hours about HR zones and boasting about your new slick 350g tyres. You cry yourself to sleep every night.
700-740mm, perhaps you're thinking of making a move to racing down the hills, but not quite ready. You own a significant amount of lycra but your chammy cream tub hasn't been touched for a few months. You struggle to find friends.
740>, your pot belly is an advantage as it keeps your centre of gravity lower on the rough, you have owned a dh bike and strava is only used to time descents as far as you're aware. You enjoy your biking.

Bollocks, as evidenced by my bike with 720mm bars and a 74.5 head angle.
But then I think you knew that :-).

Rumbled 😀

720 isn't particularly wide though. I'm thinking more 780-800 which a lot of people seem to like.

Another thing, again, not totally serious, but w i d e bars may help with steering/leverage but they may possibly have an adverse affect on for/aft movement. For example, how many of the supawidebar gang can hold a manual for more than a couple of seconds?
[url= ]
Here's[/url] another spreadsheet showing the ideal reach/width for successful manual/stoppie-ing

Sure it might be a bit more twitchy than a bike with wider bars, but on the basis of leverage only 20% more so than 720mm bars, which isn't really "very"

I would never say 'only 20%', 20% is a big deal in sport.

particularly given that for most non gnar riding leverage doesn't really come into it as you're not yanking the bike around by the bars, you're sterring by leaning

The lean comes partly from the hip shift and the feet and partly from what you do with the bars. When I was running 711 bars on my Spitfire they felt too narrow whenever my hips were tight. With 750 bars that extra leverage and more forwards body position meant I could always initiate the lean regardless of how knackered my hips were feeling. The 800 bars seem to help that further but also pull me into a position which allows me to weight the front wheel better and ride with more commitment nearer my limit.

most of the difference is surely a psychological one due to what you're accustomed to. I'm accustomed to bars that narrow and they're fine. unconvinced by your quicker rack analogy, because there isn't a quicker rack, just a smaller steering wheel.

If car steering wheels were directly operating on the steering 1:1 rather than by a rack to gear them down, then it would be just like changing the wheel size. But they don't, they use a rack which hides a lot of the effect of the wheel diameter. There's definitely a psychological thing happening as well - having got used to rider a much longer, slacker and lower full-sus my old hardtail ended up feeling strangely nervous.

For example, how many of the supawidebar gang can hold a manual for more than a couple of seconds?

Sadly the width of my bars has no bearing on that - one roller/hole/puddle is my current limit! 😉

[quote=glasgowdan ]Maybe this just comes down to your riding - if you're a XC rider that avoid the most technical descents and revels in the climbs, narrower bars will suit you better. If you like to take your time up the hills and get as rough and fast as you can down, then wider bars are unquestionably best.

Of course - I'm very definitely not at all gnar (I suspect it says a lot about my biking that there's stuff I'll ride on a unicycle I wouldn't ride on a bike!) and fairly happy with that - at least in the context of serious riders on here, though I've ridden plenty of black runs at trail centres for what that's worth. I'm certainly not disputing that wider bars are better for gnarlier riding.

[quote=chiefgrooveguru ]I would never say 'only 20%', 20% is a big deal in sport.

5% is a big deal in [b]competitive[/b] sport, yet that's at the limit of human perception for what we're discussing. We're not talking 20% difference in times either - though it's only those who haven't already completed Strava who care about that.

Sadly the width of my bars has no bearing on that - one roller/hole/puddle is my current limit!

Similarly I doubt wider bars would make much difference to my ability to do anything on a bike.