[Closed] What’s the benefit of carbon rims??

Stronger and stiffer.

Bling, innit plus you get to taste the very expensive kool-aid...

Stronger (apparently) and a very fine way of shedding pounds (from your wallet)

Viagra & steroids & Xenical / Picolax 👍😀

Seen a Reynolds carbon rim explode dropping into Treacherous Puddle in Chopwell.  Made a hell of a bang, and totalled a relatively expensive piece of kit which none of us who normally wide it have had a problem with.

If I wasn't paying for them I'd try them, but when a Flow Mk3 is <£70, it's a no-brainer.

The lightness/stiffness advantage increases as the rims get wider.

I replaced my Crests on my ss with LB 30mm wide ones.The rims were the same weight as the crests but as wide as flows (they ended up a lighter build cos of hubs/spokes).

I used to think the noodly handling of my El Mar was just me being fat and SIDS being weedy.Notsomuch.........it was my alarmingly bendy wheels!! It actually took me a while to adjust to the stiffer wheels as I'd either run wide over bumps or overturn (especially loading up in berms).
And now I can run sub 20psi with out getting all rolly (if I still actually rode that is).

I broke a 1 yr old rear Giant XCR 1 the other week and didn’t even notice it, regular xc riding and no jumping. Even after a healthy discount the replacement was over £350.  If I break another it’ll be a pair of Mavic XA Elite or Hope’s.....

The narrower ones are similar to crests. But the wider ones are much much lighter than any allow rims.

There's also a 280g super light LB rim with a 95kg rider limit!

It means you can show people you don't know that you spend a lot of money on your toys.

Also, the LB ones aren't that much extra over a normal wheel build. They certainly aren't £1500 like off the shelf wheelsets, which is a pisstake.

Willy waving rights innit?

Ok. There may be a weight/strength gain. But we're talking F1 levels of cost/gains here I think. A klutz like myself probably wouldn't notice any benefits, but would notice the lightness of my wallet.

But we’re talking F1 levels of cost/gains here I think.

Not really.  The rims are about £120 each.  A pair of Hope Pro 4 hubs is what, £190?  £40 for Sapim Race spokes, that's around £500 with the price of building.  That sort of price for a wheelset gets tossed around quite casually on here and on the website.

Can you post a link to a decent modern carbon MTB wheelset for £500 please.

Awaits with baited breath...

why would you use heavy hope hubs with carbon rims? ah yes stiffness.

I can live with a carbon frame and carbon bars but carbon wheels scare the pants off me.Lol

100g in the rim is a fairly big difference tbh,if you think about it another way, would you want to swap your Crests for a 480g rim, like say a KOM i29?

But it does get fairly hard to beat out the last few grams, especially when the alu kit is already light and making sacrifices of strength like a Crest- there's simply minimum volumes of material and minimum strengths that you run into. For me it's heavier use where carbon worked out better, though not everyone will agree- I have the 390g 29er LB rims on my Remedy, there's no 395g alu rim that I'd put on that bike. If I went alu it'd probably be an EX471, at 530g apiece.

Now some people would say, 140g a wheel isn't a difference worth worrying about. And those folks obviously won't be interested. I have a heavy duty wheelset with 560g alu rims (not so much because they're that much stronger than my carbons, mostly because they're cheaper- downhilling, rims no matter how strong are in the firing line and I'd much sooner damage a £45 rim!) and it makes a big difference to me.

Wheels strength is always hard to judge- strength and toughness are fairly separate, the wheel needs to survive whatever everyday hits it'll take but toughness really comes into it with exceptions- casing on a rock edge, flatting a tyre and riding it out on the flat. Some tyres are strong but not tough (Flow Ex was a good example) And the rider makes a big difference to how many times you need tough- how much tyre they use, how tidy they are, how they ride and where, pressures etc.

For me, it comes down to what it took for me to break my original LB rim, a 360g 26er. I wrecked 2 middleweight alu rims on that bike, then replaced with the LB and it outlived those 2 alu rims combined by about 2 years. I eventually cracked it with a big stupid mistake which realistically could have damaged any wheel. My 29er ones have given good enough service that if I was to break one tomorrow I'd say, fair enough- especially if it was some riding error like that one was. (I just saw the price they are now and tbh, I'm not totally sure I'd buy them again! But only because of the 50% price increase)

I'm lucky if I spend £500 on a bike, never mind wheels for a bike!   I expect cost will come down in time though?

Can you post a link to a decent modern carbon MTB wheelset for £500 please.

Think you misread my post. I'm saying that if you buy LB rims and build them up you can get a wheelset for in the region of £500 ish. That is much cheaper than off the shelf carbon wheelsets.

@howsyourdad1

why would you use heavy hope hubs with carbon rims? ah yes stiffness.

If you look at weight/cost, it becomes a bit balanced.  For a wide plus size rim, the WTB scraper (£70) weighs 650g, a cheap(ish) carbon one under 500g, that is 250g difference, for ~ £200.  Just over 1g saved per extra £ spent very roughly speaking.

By contrast, a DT 240s 6-bolt weighs 240 g and costs £230,  a decent Novatec hub a tad under 340 g and costs £60 or so, saving more than a gramme per pound saving.  (On front hubs the weight diffs are way lower, but so are the price diffs so a carbon rimmed front wheel is going to be expensiver whatever hub you use.)

So at least on the rear, budget hub/carbon rim is a serious option.  But you would probably want to go carbon on the front as well, and that would be expensiver however you did it.

ok cheers. I have stuck with aluminium on dt 240s. cost is the main reason,  but also yeah, one wheelset/one that I need to be working. lots of people have said to me ah yes buy 3 or 4 rims from LB so when you break one you have a spare to hand. All good but  = more cost.

if I was to get carbon I would save up and do the santa cruz warranty thing

You'd likely be able to build the carbon ones with less (28) spokes, so that might save another 30-40g (20g each end). The carbon ones can be ran tubeless at higher pressure.  I've had a set running at 70psi for over a year.

Can you post a link to a decent modern carbon MTB wheelset for £500 please

ICAN 650B XC Bike Hookless Rim Carbon Mountain Bike Wheelset 30mm Width Front 15x100mm Rear 12x142mm Shimano Freehub https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B072L8233Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_SBlUAbWP9E56R425 icann on Amazon

I've had a good think about it and IMHO it's "nice things are nice to have".

For your average Muggle rider like us it's not going to be a massive performance benefit, yeah they'll 'feel' better, but I've seen a load of rabid tech consumers be given an 4 year old smart phone in fancy case and told it's a the latest greatest thing and they all thought it was amazing.

They *should* be lighter and stronger than an Alu equivalent, but as so many people have already stated, it's actually pretty easy to find a lighter Alu rim and they're not exactly exploding on every cased jump or badly ridden rock garden. No I think the only stated benefit is they're stiffer - but then in the early days of Enve rims some riders were complaining about a rough ride because they were too stiff so who knows.

 it’s actually pretty easy to find a lighter Alu rim

Not above 30mm it isn't.  And below that there's only one rim I know of that's comparable.  What light alloy rims are you thinking of?

icann on Amazon

He said decent not bargain bin knock-off!

The WTB scraper mentioned above in 29 x 45mm costs £73 weighs an astonishing 725g!  The LB plus rim is 490g and costs $210 or about £150, import duty and shipping notwithstanding.  So you could be saving a pound on your wheels for approximately £150 extra or thereabouts.

That's a pretty damn good upgrade to your 29+ bike for the money, IMO.

why would you use heavy hope hubs with carbon rims?

So what hubs are the weight weenie choice these days?

Re. the OP, as with anything it's diminishing returns. A good alloy wheel will be close to a much more expensive carbon one, but if you want that weight saving you have to go carbon.

Whether its worth it (including the bend vs break factor) is up to you. If I were to get a carbon rimmed wheel set, it would probably only come out for XC races.

For a wide plus size rim, the WTB scraper (£70) weighs 650g, a cheap(ish) carbon one under 500g, that is 250g difference, for ~ £200.

Hmm dodgy maths alert. Scrapers are (claimed) 550g for i40 and 650g (i45). LB carbon plus rims are (claimed) 480g for 40mm internal and (strangely) 450g for 45mm internal. So best case 200g.

Edit those are 650b+ weights

"Molgrips"

You're looking at nearly £500 to land your rims (AM/EN728) at your front door all taxes paid add Hubs, spokes etc.  My Hope build will be £760 at present exchange rates - not £500.

Still less than half the price of new SC Reserve rims albeit without the unconditional guarantee, which may be worth the extra if you break rims regularly.

Oh, nearly forgot;

DT Swiss 240's for the weight weenies.

A good variety of replies 🙂

I was also looking at some carbon rims for my hardcore hardtail..but....although that WOULD offer the better wieight saving as they'd be wider rims, i'd be more concerned that i'd thrash that bike more, and thus worry about breaking the rims...

I was just surprised that there isn't a huge weight benefit over my current CX rims....

However, I do also buy into the 'nice things are nice' philosophy...

If i were to get rims, it's be a straight swap, so i wouldn'#t be buying new hubs on top (Hope pro2 evos currently)...

Food for thought

DrP

I thought I had already done so, but in case I hadn't, I hereby apologise unreservedly for my arithmetical error.

 You’re looking at nearly £500 to land your rims (AM/EN728) at your front door all taxes paid add Hubs, spokes etc.  My Hope build will be £760 at present exchange rates – not £500.

Which is why I ended up getting mine from Blue Flow Wheels rather than messing around getting them from China. They start at £679.

Light bike wheels are only around 600 quid aren't they?

Wish I'd have brought some salt and vinegar for all these shoulder chips 🙂

I've had all sorts of wheels from the cheapest 26" to SC Reserve 29ers. The Reserves feel and ride extremely well! The thing is, as I've progressed as a rider, I've had more expensive upgrades, so it's hard to compare.

I just like the warranty and the fact that they look nice. Them making the bike fun to ride is a plus too. The cheap Superstar AMX 26" were great on my Voodoo Hoodoo! I suspect I wasn't exactly stressing them to the limits though back then 🙂

You’re looking at nearly £500 to land your rims (AM/EN728) at your front door all taxes paid

What tax and shipping did you pay?  £750 is still much much cheaper than off the shelf carbon wheels though.

Import duty and VAT here.

Some suppliers enclose a low value invoice with the goods.  I guess it is between you and your conscience whether you declare what you actually paid.

What was the actual cost though?  Duty varies widely.

EDIT seems to be 4.7%.

That makes the 45mm rim about £190.  So £250 extra on your wheel build for a 450g saving.

I wouldn't go carbon on my cx on the basis that's the one bike I continually crash in new and unusual ways - I'm sold on cheap there as I'll be last regardless.

ANyone actually got those ICAN wheels? Is 30mm enough for 2.8 tyres to be sensible shapes?

If you ride aggressively, occasionally pinch flat tubeless tyres and want to enjoy hammering down rocky trails without worrying about your rims making it out alive then stick with alloy.

If you want to do none of the above then get carbon rims and enjoy the slight increase in stiffness and slight reduction in weight.

CRC / Wiggle are selling carbon rimmed road wheels for ~£500 using their Prime brand. I can imagine that if they expanded into MTB wheels costs would be similar so its not inconceivable we'll soon be seeing £500 pre-built wheelsets with proper warrenty etc.

slight reduction in weight

We've established it can be a pretty signifiant reduction.

I've got carbon wheels on my big bouncy bike. Was concerned about breaking them then saw Danny M trying to break a set. Not so worried now.

He said decent not bargain bin knock-off!

I ran some chinese carbon wheels with novatec hubs for 3 cyclocross seasons and they were brilliant. Heard some good reports of icann rims from fatbike owners.

Lots and lots of people running novatec hubs out there.. But yea where are you going to find named brand carbon wheels for  £500.. you aren't i expect

I read a few reports of Ican wheels - most people seem to be complaining about the hubs and the build.

I think with factory build wheels it's always wise to get the spoke tensions checked by a local wheel builder.

That said my factory build LB carbon on hope have been fine aside having to get the back wheel rebuilt due to a sudden meeting of derailleur /spoke.

It's a shame they're more expensive now, I think mine cost about £650 all in direct from LB built on hope hubs.

I don't really do proper DH or enduro, but I did have a proper brown pants moment going down a rubble strewn bridle path, front tyre punctured and I was riding on the rim with the tyre flapping about as I tried to slow down as fast as I dared.

No damage to the rim other than a couple of scratches.

Managed to safely, slowly come to a stop. That's an AM spec 32h rim.

They are bloody strong. Although I'd be wary of going for a lower spoke count or an xc layup to save a few grams.

So after my latest wheel tacho debacle (after buying new forks and shock same month I wasn’t banking on such an early upgrade) I was pondering what to buy.  Either blue flow carbons, Santa Cruz reserve or hope on flows.  I chose the later built up locally by Mboy.  Just because I’m sick of breaking stuff.  I am very hard on wheels and the weight saving benefit was soon outweighed with reliability.  To be honest I’m chuffed with my mk3 flow on pro4 build and can firmly recommend Mboy as a wheel builder in the midlands/south west.

@russyh, not everyone'll agree but I'm pretty confident my LB 29ers are tougher than Flows. Certainly tougher than my mk1 Flow (cracked at the valve hole after a couple of years) and Ex (flatspotted to the point it couldn't hold a tyre on)

That's not a fair comparison because at today's prices I think you can buy about 3 Flows for one LB, so you could argue that the LB has to be 3 times more durable- and it definitely is not.

I looked at LB rims Northwind but your right the cost and for me hassle meant I couldn’t be bothered.  I had broken a LB 650b rim previously (cracked at spoke nipple) the cost vs accessibility suits me.  To be honest I’m fed up with broken stuff of late, having a bad time of it of late.

Interesting then - I have Novatech hubs on my road wheelset for the Tripster - not exactly demanding but not had a squeak out of them.

£400 for carbon plus wheels would be lovely, even if I have to tension and true a bit.

Aye the newer rims are more expensive but my last pair of 30mm hookless were just over £325 delivered, including duty and tax, built onto existing Hope Pro2 hubs off my old wheels so it was a relatively cheap wheelset all things considered. My first pair of 30mm rims, bought more than 4 years ago were £20 less, but the rims were cheaper back then and the exchange rate was better.

I got tired of replacing stan flows (which I think are awesome rims). When my last set failed I managed to get some SC wheels cheap and oh my they are good. They stay dagger straight, track well and give confidence. I abuse mine on the trail bike and they haven't loosened a spoke. I don't think I'd ever pay full whack for them as it's a lot of cash but there are benefits for a more maintenance free wheelset and confidence that they will stay round.

That being said they are slightly heavier than my stans which are now my 2nd set of wheels with light tyres for more pedalling duties. But if I'm just going up the Golfie or in Morzine then the carbons will stay on permanently with butchers on.

I don’t really do proper DH or enduro, but I did have a proper brown pants moment going down a rubble strewn bridle path

Probably sums up the vast majority of STW'ers in one brief sentence 🙂