[Closed] What's the average STW bike these days...

160mm full susp.

All the koolaid kids are on gravel bikes now.

A road bike

A gravel bike that never leaves tarmac?

Average STWer, some 5-10 year old hardtail, with more zip ties than gears. The 1% have a Starling or Geometron.

Average of the ST journos - £5k+, you can change gears and order craft beer from a pub in Hebden Bridge via it's built in bluetooth. Occasionally they'll have to do a review of entry level £3k hardtails and spend most of it telling you how much cheaper they are than their other bikes and how that impacts their performance, but doesn't impact their performance.

Very occasionally they will review a rigid single speed, it will still cost £3k.

haha....DaveyBoyWonder to be honest that's the way i went mainly because i moved to London. Less faff, less endless damage, less maintenance, less driving.

Technology has improved and been refined making it more accessible, usable and affordable in when it comes to "average".

Look at smartphones and computers. A typical newer phone can do far more than one of 10-15 years ago.

A longer travel full suss used to be more expensive, more specialist, less reliable, heavier, etc than they are now.

The average has moved.

Main difference from 10-15 years ago is all my wheels are about the same size.
Gone are the 26er 5.75" travel (replaced by a very similar priced 5" travel 29er) and the steel 26er hardtail, replaced by a higher specced, but 2nd hand 29er alu hardtail. Gone is the road bike, replaced by a very high spec Ti gravel bike, well before they were called gravel bikes though, cos I is ahead of the curve me.
Average STW bike doesn't exist does it?

Speaking more generally than just STW in MTB terms, it tends be around the £2-3K full suspension bikes with 120-160mm travel, though the surge in e-bikes I've seen around here in North Wales is insane recently. I've had rides where regular pedal powered bikes have been vastly out numbered by the number of e-bikes. Most blast past on the climbs and then wobble their way down the descents at a snails pace...

All the koolaid kids are on gravel bikes now.

They've realized that gravel bikes are the best tool for the majority of UK trails.

Louise

Yeti Arc 35th anniversary obvs

£2-3K new or used price?

3yr old generic alloy hardtail from Marin

I'm just going to leave this before I go on holiday 🚵‍♂️

E bike 150mm travel 650b+ or 29er

Probably a Turbo Levo

Around 5K

In 5 years time some one will look at this thread, lets see who was in the right ball park 😉

Speaking more generally than just STW in MTB terms, it tends be around the £2-3K full suspension bikes with 120-160mm travel,

Nah thats nonsense. Go to glentress or similar on a nice saturday.

Low to mid level hardtails of varying ages reign supreme. As the should because no bike offers more bang for your buck than a budget bike thats gets lots of people out there.

For me, gravel / road / SS CX / fat bike plus a couple of 26's I don't really use and an Eroica bike

They’ve realized that hardtails are the most fun for the majority of UK trails

FTFY.

Average bike (singular)?!😂 If I averaged my bikes it would probably be some sort of short travel soft-tail with 29” wheels - 50% ti, 25% CF and a bit of alloy and steel. 150mm 29FS, 130mm HT, rigid 29er, road bike and commuter. That’s ignoring the various ancient 26” frames etc that are kicking around. Many more miles done on the road than off-road these days unfortunately.

Aren't we all on Bird AM9's now or have I gone wrong?

They’ve realized that gravel bikes are the best tool for the majority of UK trails in the overpopulated, elite owned south.

🙂

though the surge in e-bikes I’ve seen around here in North Wales is insane recently. I’ve had rides where regular pedal powered bikes have been vastly out numbered by the number of e-bikes. Most blast past on the climbs and then wobble their way down the descents at a snails pace…

I suspect that's probably because they travel at a different pace to a normal bike.

Swinley car park is always at capacity, yet you only see 20 people on the trails, because the other 500 are more than a few hundred meters behind/ahead of you. And you only see the slow people and e-bikes because that's all you catch up with or get overtaken by.

it tends be around the £2-3K full suspension bikes with 120-160mm travel

I dunno, I think there's been a huge growth in so called Halo models. I'm not convinced that's made a huge difference to what actually gets ridden though. If anything I'd guess the average age of bikes seems to be getting older as people keep them longer, and in spite of the hype only a handful have actually changed all that much (just look at the geometry charts for something like a Specialized enduro from 2006. 66HA, low BB, long top tubes and short stems, and it's 15 years old).

Aren’t we all on Bird AM9’s now or have I gone wrong?

Don't forget the few on Flare Max's...

There is an extra dimension to this though
Average STW user had n bikes 10-15 years ago. Now they've got n+x bikes, what is x and how are they distributing their riding time between the bikes. Me personally, n=2 x=2

With regard to my MTB I've migrated from a Titanium hardtail 26er with 80mm forks to a Carbon softail 29er with 100mm forks, but I'm in the flat&muddy southeastlands.

The average STW bike is not going to be the same as the average mountain bike, that's for certain.

Average STW bike doesn’t exist does it?

Dez beat me to it. "mountain bike" is such a broad church, there's no possible single answer to this.

For me, road bikes not being included.
28" wheels
Carbon, with an Alu top tube
122mm fork, 111mm travel
11.5 gears, half of which are electric, the others cable operated.
166mm dropper
100wh battery and 50w motor.

Averages are fun aren't they?

A gravel bike that never leaves tarmac?

or

A gravel bike that never leaves a Zwift setup in the shed?

Who wants to be an average STWer anyway 😉

Don’t think there is an ‘average’ bike because

1. N+1
2. All bases covered
3. Who is ‘average‘?

I have a ten year old 26er hardtail as described (more gaffer tape than zip ties tbh), a retro road tourer and a rigid 29er that could be upgraded to 29+

Also a Dutch Utility bike in bits. And a footbike.

In 5 years time some one will look at this thread, lets see who was in the right ball park

Yeah, in 5 years time most of will be too damn old and decrepit to pedal under our own steam.

Whatever the bike type, a saddle angled at the front hub, a colour 'theme' and Hope stuff? Always has been hasn't it? : )

I feel very off-trend these days with my rigid niche SS. It'll come back into fashion about the same point I get too old to ride SS anymore.

Whatever the bike type, a saddle angled at the front hub, a colour ‘theme’ and Hope stuff? Always has been hasn’t it? : )

I'm not sure when the trend from saddles pointed at the sky to being pointed at the ground flipped, there must have been a biref period where "cool" was to have your saddle level, in the way the manufacutrer designed it.

2015 Bird Aeris here 140/150mm.

Whyte Shoreditch Road hybrid for tarmac commuting duties.

Hardtails have gone through a renaissance. Evo LLS geo with wider rubber has meant they're rideable on most UK stuff. They've become the one bike do it all with minimum faff IMO. Oh, and the best of the new gen look sweet.

29+ rigid and a gravel bike. But I’m a posh southern softy.

If I lived somewhere with decent riding I’d have a 140mm full sus 29er and be happy with that as my only bike I reckon

Marin B17 or Mount Vision

Wot no fives?

Assuming the average rider focus is E E focused - e-bike or enduro

Assuming n+1 I'm going to guess the average collection as:

Full sus geometry du jour - may or may not be E-bike

Full sus circa mid last decade

Millennium hard tail - covers Souls etc

On One Scandal (GX build) and a Kona Bandwagon road SS here.

Do you want the perceived or data for actual?

I'm still riding those bikes. A 2010 Pitch, 2013 Chameleon, Trailstar LT and 2004 Norco Shore.

Perception is everyone is on a £5k XL carbon gnarpoon with a dropper that they can't live without and 1x because a front derailleur is just too hard.

Yeah, in 5 years time most of will be too damn old and decrepit to pedal under our own steam.

OK boomer. (37yo millennial here)

Looking at passing riders on the south downs way last sunday it appears everyone rides a gravel bike. Seemed quite odd when a Stumpjumper bounced by...like seeing a Wrangler on a rally course. Where there's trails a mid to long travel Canyon, YT or Turbo Levo.

I am still living in 2005.2005 26 inch heckler 90s marin 2005 Dh bike 1999 sunn steel xc bike and a few old but decent bmx bikes.still happy with no intentions of getting anything newer.i think the average bike would be a cotic or on one of some sort or a FS trail or enduro bike.ht bikes do not get as much love partly due to an aging membership base although this is a bit tongue in cheek.to be fair the soul,the scandal and other ht bikes are popular although many say they are too beaten up by ht bikes so I guess that depends where you ride.

It's a broad church. In the shed I've got a jeffsy 27, an e-converted 29er rigid for commuting, a nostalgia Marin bear valley se single speed (well almost finished), a Saracen DJ frame to build and I really want an inspired trials bike. Borrowed a Trek Rail last weekend and it was a revelation for bike parks, so that's also clouding my vision. Had a couple of CX bikes but sold em on as didn't really gel.

They’ve realized that gravel bikes are the best tool for the majority of UK trails.

Possibly this. I've got a 2011 5 which I think Iv'e used twice this year, an old HT which I was using until I got a Spesh Sirrus & put some gravelly tyres on, now It's all I'm using (when I ride from home) If I went up the Dales or NYM I'd probably use the 5.

Nah thats nonsense. Go to glentress or similar on a nice saturday.

Low to mid level hardtails of varying ages reign supreme. As the should because no bike offers more bang for your buck than a budget bike thats gets lots of people out there.

That probably says more about Glentress than the ‘average MTB’. In the last month or two, I’ve been to Cwmcarn and Afan a couple of times. Mid-priced full-sus was the overwhelming choice of bike in both places. Also, when I ride the local stuff here in S Wales, it’s more usual to bump into riders on very expensive bikes than cheap stuff.

And, thinking about it, when I visited Glentress a couple of years ago, I didn’t notice huge numbers of cheap hardtails. Do they congregate at the skills park or something? (As they might at Afan.)

I would say the average bike I normally see is a 3-4k 150mm+ travel full sus on my local rides. But as a caveat majority of my cycling is in Surrey lots of Yeti and Santa Cruz bikes.

Assuming the average rider focus is E E focused – e-bike or enduro

Assuming n+1 I’m going to guess the average collection as:

Full sus geometry du jour – may or may not be E-bike

Full sus circa mid last decade

Millennium hard tail – covers Souls etc

I think this is pretty spot on. Well for me any way I see myself as your average rider and I have a full sus, ht and gravel bike / commute because london roads are awful and I actually enjoy gravel rides.

From this morning at sherwood pines it’s either a mid range hardtail (possibly rentals but still plenty not) or ebikes.

Looking at passing riders on the south downs way last sunday it appears everyone rides a gravel bike.

Probably the best choice for the terrain...

10 old Blue Pig X. 26 obviously, Revelations. Upgraded to 11 speed slx recently.

I've got a Kona utility bike (Big Rove) in the garage too and a Bird Aeris 145 frame to build up when I have the cash.

I'm in Surrey, so lots of older money bags riders about. I reckon the brands I see out most are Santa Cruz, YT and Whyte. 130 to 160 full suss. Hardtail are about 30% from what I can see.

I don't get the 'gravel bikes are best for UK trails'. You could survive most stuff but even my local woods, a proper MTB will be 1000 times better

A longtravel, bikepacking, fat tyred gravel bike thats long, slack and has a cargo deck. Must also be in any material as long as it's not carbon, but could be carbon some of the time. Travel between 0-180mm, but not adverse to 250mm on occasion. Simultaneously, Rigid forks and a hardtail.

I don’t get the ‘gravel bikes are best for UK trails’

Except that’s a strawman argument 😉

It’s normally agreed that ‘the from the door multi-surface stuff ‘we’ (we olduns) in the UK used to ride in the early 90s on rigid ATB/MTB bikes is also rideable/netter suited to gravel bikes today’

ie backroads, devent bridleways, towpaths, tracks, fire-roads, odd bit of singletrack.

When I got my first MTB I’d typically ride 8-10 miles road, towpath and bridleway to a fireroad and then possibly a loop around something tame like this:

OTOH I don’t see many if any arguing that gravel bikes are ‘best’ for the type of woodland trails/singletrack that are best ridden on mountain bikes*

Any ‘gravel bike can replace a mountain bike’ argument is only valid if you’re using your mountain bike primarily on backroads and gravel and as an allrounder everyday bike. In which case a gravel bike may be a better choice. Even then, they come in all flavours from monster-crossy+ to lightweight roadsters with 35Cs

*Not to say that no-one has ever claimed this, just that I haven’t seen it.

EDIT! 🤣 (Note to self: Read comments before commenting) 🤣

They’ve realized that gravel bikes are the best tool for the majority of UK trails.

‘Majority of UK trails’ is undefined.

When I got my first MTB I’d typically ride 8-10 miles road, towpath and bridleway to a fireroad and then possibly a loop around something tame like this:

That video just needs the music from American Flyers and then it would be perfect!

don't forget your flannel shirt over your lycra when on your gravel bike. And wistfully look at those having fun on trails wishing you could have a go. But alas. Drop bars... but its ok because you rode there on the road slightly faster.

I assumed the average stw bike was something off bicycle pubes but tbh i think it's probably a amix of FS bikes.

I've a 2010 Carrera Fury that's really only used for quick bursts along the abandoned railway line next to us and a 26 ain't dead BFe.

I do want a FS though as my work is hard on my knees (maintenance before you get all lewd) and for the past year or 2 rough trails do them no good a all, or im just getting soft in my old age.

don’t forget your flannel shirt over your lycra when on your gravel bike. And wistfully look at those having fun on trails wishing you could have a go. But alas. Drop bars… but its ok because you rode there on the road slightly faster.

Looks great fun to me...

don’t forget your flannel shirt over your lycra when on your gravel bike. And wistfully look at those having fun on trails wishing you could have a go. But alas. Drop bars… but its ok because you rode there on the road slightly faster.

🤣 I did have flannie and lycra in the winter! Point taken, I’m fortunate maybe in that I can also enjoy having fun on bikeparky trails. As well as the ATB (currently Longitude) I do have an aggro SS hardtail. Would switch it nowadays for a full-sus for playtime but can’t yet afford/justify it. Even though, my first love was/is exploring/cycling for cycling’s sake/being outdoors/getting places with no car involved. Before injury/ongoing rehab I’d typically ride 50-70 miles on any given Sunday exploring the wilds of Shropshire or Welsh Marches (including tooth-rattling Long-Mynd descents) before either camping overnight or embarking on the 40 mile back lanes, forests and towpaths home in the twilight/dark/starlight/pissing-rain/snow. Small (or big) adventures, getting away from it all, etc.

Now, of course, I can chuck the hardtail in the boot of the car and go have fun up the Mynd without the shirt or bib. But I’d miss out on the being out all day with, map and sandwich in pocket, not quite knowing where I’d wind up/whether need to hike-a-bike this next bit or not. It’s all fun for me, while realising that I’m possibly an oddity in being rarely bored, rigid - while always bored in a car.

“It’s normally agreed that ‘the from the door multi-surface stuff ‘we’ (we olduns) in the UK used to ride in the early 90s on rigid ATB/MTB bikes is also rideable/netter suited to gravel bikes today’“

By whom? Around Brighton we have miles of woodland singletrack, some steep, some jumpy, most of it rooty. All better on a MTB unless you’re being a masochist.

We also have the South Downs National Park, where I’ll agree a gravel bike may be better into a nasty headwinds but the rest of the time a MTB will be better whether it’s wet or dry, especially on the fast descents.

All better on a MTB unless you’re being a masochist.

But what is 'better'? Easier, faster - even safer? Or challenging? I rode something recently on my gravel bike that was distinctly adrenaline-inducing, and which I got a great sense of achievement from cleaning. On my Jeffsy, or probably on any of my flat bar bikes it would have been relatively straightforward - but is that 'better'?

29er short travel full-suss and hardtail. Lets call it down-country so I be bang on trend for once in my life!

Not seen a gravel bike on the trail yet. They sounds like they are popular so assume they are just avoiding me.

“It’s normally agreed that ‘the from the door multi-surface stuff ‘we’ (we olduns) in the UK used to ride in the early 90s on rigid ATB/MTB bikes is also rideable/netter suited to gravel bikes today’“

By whom?

by GCN...

NB Very tongue in cheek, but I have to agree with them....

I went out for only an hour this evening, but on a typical short 14k circuit similar terrain to what I would have done on my ATB in 1990. Estimate of surfaces:

20% urban/tarmac
35% bridleway/woodland path/short grass
35% back lanes and farm tracks, some potholes, mostly good.
10% fast B road

As it was dry I took my tourer (triple crankset, MTB gearing, 28c Marathons) and a rackpack for damsons and apple picks.

Now why would I ruin such a swift and light summer ride with a full susser? I could probably slightly improve it with a decent gravel bike. Nonetheless, this old bike flies and is a joy to ride on mixed terrain as long as it’s not modern MTB territory. The only eyebrow-raising moment that slowed me tonight was an unseen pothole descending a town street/not paying attention. Hand-built wheels ftw. It was a tooth-grinding ‘bang’ though. 35-40c here would have been better.

Around Brighton we have miles of woodland singletrack, some steep, some jumpy, most of it rooty. All better on a MTB unless you’re being a masochist.

Wait, let me check back to what I said:

Any ‘gravel bike can replace a mountain bike’ argument is only valid if you’re using your mountain bike primarily on backroads and gravel and as an allrounder everyday bike. In which case a gravel bike may be a better choice

Nope, no masochism? If Was riding on miles of steep and jumpy rooty woodland singletrack, OTOH? Well I often do, and I’d choose my hardtail (not even the rigid 29er) or else a full susser if I had one.

If I still lived in Northants then gravel bike might make more sense. But there’s a lot of the UK with proper MTBing available, even down in the south east of England.

I like how a modern hardtail can cover ground efficiently, feel connected and fun on easy trails but have the geometry and fork to keep you safe on gnarly trails. Big bouncy bikes make the easy stuff dull even if they’re not slow. I’ve seen a few people on gravel / CX bikes on our singletrack. On the smooth stuff the more skilled riders are pretty impressive but even they get foiled once it gets bumpy.

Scarily an eMTB with loads of suspension can actually be fun where a similar full-sus without a motor would be boring because of the extra speed the motor can bring.

Wait...gravel bikes are just for shit rural roads, right?!?

Take them on singletrack?! What will they think of next. 🙂

And, thinking about it, when I visited Glentress a couple of years ago...

Well, take it from me, having been there at the weekend it was rammed with folk on hardtails. Ancient 26 loaners up to mid range 29ers.

And another Pitch owner who seemed very happy to see mine 🙂

Well, take it from me, having been there at the weekend it was rammed with folk on hardtails. Ancient 26 loaners up to mid range 29ers.

I used to ride my Scale (26" HT) there and some bits were a bit rough, but nothing that needed a FS bike.

NB May have changed over the years, eg CyB added a weird rough rock paved section right near the trail head, which I could only assume had been built to justify a FS bike as the rest of the trails were definitely HT terrain.

When I went to Coed-y-Brenin a few weeks ago it was packed pull of cheap old hardtails, only saw 2 people on Santa Cruz and a few on hired e bikes. Quite a refreshing change from bike park Peaslake.

Well, take it from me, having been there at the weekend it was rammed with folk on hardtails. Ancient 26 loaners up to mid range 29ers.

Its horses for courses though. Hang about Buzzards Best and Berm Baby Berm and yes there will be loads of hardtails. Head up to the mast and and then down the enduro trails and you will see lots of mid-travel 29ers and barely any hardtails.

Yeah, in 5 years time most of will be too damn old and decrepit to pedal under our own steam.

OK boomer. (37yo millennial here)

Latest meme* is that only those who use the word ‘boomer’ are old-fashioned enough to be ‘boomers’ 😉

*This may have changed since this morning.

Back to the thread, so is there an ‘average‘ STW ‘one bike in the garage’?

As per OP

What do you think is the new mr.average, just one bike in the garage ride on your trail and what is the cost of their bike? Has the sport become more expensive on average?

What do you think is the new mr.average, just one bike in the garage ride on your trail and what is the cost of their bike? Has the sport become more expensive on average?

C2W money hardtail/FS now the limit is more flexible. I dont think the cost of entry has increased much over inflation, when i started, the standard advice for setting a your budget for a good starter bike was 3 weeks wages, so around £900ish then (based on average salary in 2000), vs £1350 now, which is a bit more than Bossnut money.

C2W money hardtail/FS now the limit is more flexible. I dont think the cost of entry has increased much over inflation, when i started, the standard advice for setting a your budget for a good starter bike was 3 weeks wages, so around £900ish then (based on average salary in 2000), vs £1350 now, which is a bit more than Bossnut money.

Agreed, Halfords have a really good Boardman full susser for 2021 for £1k, less for a hardtail. There are 10% discount codes with BC etc and if you can get it through cycle to work its even cheaper.

Agreed, Halfords have a really good Boardman full susser for 2021 for £1k, less for a hardtail.

Interesting to see how quickly it sells out, amazing VFM.

Has the sport become more expensive on average?

No. For each individal it may have done. You're older, richer and now you are more into it; so are your friends - you'll spend more.
When I started I spent 600 on a used hardtail as my first "proper mtb". I thought that was a huge amount of money. These days I'm more likely to think "only 600 more gets me up to the next spec level" or "ooh, week's guided holiday".

when i started, the standard advice for setting a your budget for a good starter bike was 3 weeks wages

I've not heard this rule before, but 3 weeks wages now gets you a far better bike than it did at any poin tin the past. The only modern issue is people who might get the "wrong" bike as there is such a vast difference between them these days, whether thats a big enduro bruiser when they are a beginner, a hardtail because they feel they must learn on one, etc.

If you don't know what exactly you want to do, it's hard to get that goldilocks bike with no experience.

The only modern issue is people who might get the “wrong” bike as there is such a vast difference between them these days

Not at that budget I don’t think. Things only really start to specialise once you cross the £2k RRP mark, below that everything will do a decent job of ‘mountain biking’. Obviously folk trying to get stuff on sale/NOS clouds that, but that’s why we need decent lbs’

Not at that budget I don’t think. Things only really start to specialise once you cross the £2k RRP mark, below that everything will do a decent job of ‘mountain biking’.

Good point, though I was thinking second hand when I wrote that. £1350 pre-corona got you a decent 4-5 year old bike in good working order, if a little bashed up or non-matching visually.
While the newbie will be able to distinguish between a Giant Reign and an Anthem, they might not understand quite how limiting each would be in either direction.

I’d be willing to bet that someone looking at spending £1350 on a s/h bike won’t be going in totally blind. Either they’ll have done a bit of research or have a mate (or forum full of them) guiding them a bit, rather than someone turning up at Halfords/decathlon etc saying ‘I’d like to get into MTB, work have given me a voucher for x’

I used to ride my Scale (26″ HT) there and some bits were a bit rough, but nothing that needed a FS bike.

You don't need a FS but it's a lot more fun for blasting down the black/red/blue from Buzzards to Peel.

Ive still got the 26" Kona hardtail from 11 years ago, and still have as much fun on it as I did then. Faster doesnt mean more fun.