[Closed] What Smart Trainer?

Wheel off?

Tacx Flux £400 from halfords with BC discount seems a good buy.

https://www.halfords.com/cycling/turbo-trainers/trainers/tacx-flux-smart-trainer

Samba or Stan Smith, depending on the colour of your suit.

Any comments on the Bkool Smart?

If that's your budget area you'd be as well looking at the tacx 2240 for £200.  decent smart turbo but a bit slow to respond to sudden power changes. But at that price you can't complain

Pretty sure that all wheel on trainers will have a tension adjuster of some sort or it could never accurately read power.

FWIW I just jump on my Tacx flow most of the time, I check weekly but it seems to stay in calibration pretty well and I rarely actually need to adjust it

Maybe the knob issue isn't so important as I'm not using it for Power, I have the 4iii crank which is more consistent indoors vs outdoors.   I want the auto resistance on Zwift hills.

Halford also have a Kurt machine for the £338, that looks good.   They have an Elite Muin for £300 also, that might be OK if I'm only looking for resistance changes?

The elite muin doesn't do resistance change for hills, I thought.

I would just stick to the tacx flow 2240, it does everything you want at a value price. I have had one for 2 years without issue.

Ok thanks, one question - whats meant by Max resistance at 800w?   Because I'm putting out roughly 1100w on sprints, so want to ensure it'll cope...  and it only goes up to a 6% slope?   So what happens on a Zwift 10% climb?

I've got a bkool smart, easy to set up and works very well with zwift. Bkools own software was a bit kak so I don't use it anymore. Any questions let me know.

I do have another question for both - I'm assuming either can be controlled by Zwift, yet power can still be measured from my crank and not the trainer by choice?

I think you should be able to pair your 4iii as the power source and then pair the trainer as controllable. I know you can do it with some turbos, not tried that with the bkool as I don't have a power meter. Maybe check first.

You can use the 4iiii as the power source and use the feedback from the trainer no problem.  I started doing it last week with my PowerTap pedals, but my t2240 has developed the well reported clicking noise at slow speeds so I’ve started trying to return it back to cycle republic.

Hope I can get the full refund (10month old) and use it to offset the cost of the wheel off Tacx flow at 450.

I have BKOOL smart trainer that works with Zwift.

£130 collected. Surrey hills

Tacx 2240 here, got it for about £150 from Halfords in sale with BC discount. Works well, and I'm a sweatty mess on Zwift.

Spend more, dunno, despite my injuries, I'd still rather be out and about, so under £200 for a smart trainer is OK. £500 no in my eye.

Ok thanks, one question – whats meant by Max resistance at 800w?   Because I’m putting out roughly 1100w on sprints, so want to ensure it’ll cope…  and it only goes up to a 6% slope?   So what happens on a Zwift 10% climb?

A 10% climb won't have any more resistance than a 6% climb basically so you'll just go slower for the same effort and feel as on a 6% slope. It's not really a problem but it does mean the steepest climbs aren't actually harder than shallower ones but then you've got gears for that anyway.

The flow will read well over 800w - I've been well into the thousands.

I have just bought a Cyclops Magnus for about £300 from CRC with BC discount.  I have been happy with it so far, power seems to be reasonably accurate I  did an FTP test on a friend's power meter and on trainer and they were within the same ballpark.  It replicates slopes up to 15% and has up to 1500 watts resistance.  I think some climbs in zwift hit 19% (radio tower climb).  If I was spending more I would have got one with a bigger flywheel.

I’ve had a Tacx flow from Halfords for a couple of year .  It’s been fine and works with swift Bkool etc.

As mentioned it only goes up to 6% gradient but I just put it in a higher gear if I want too use hard.

The best app I have found for virtually free is indoor cycling workout on android.

Daz

Those sort of wattages I wouldn’t be looking at the tacx flow. Some of the intervals I do currently involve holding 580w for 2 mins and the flow tops out at about 520. It also lags to the point where short intervals are pointless. By the time it gets up to resistance the interval is over. I gave mine away as it was useless. I have a neo now and intervals on that feel similar to on the road.

If you have a low ftp the flow would be fine but higher than 300 and look at something else.

Flux is the no brainer at 400 quid - minimal faff

Well quite.   I’ve 2 years (at least) training in front of me and having Erg mode would be a huge advantage...  but £400....

It also lags to the point where short intervals are pointless. By the time it gets up to resistance the interval is over.

this is true. You need to consider what kind of training you’ll be doing on it. For steady state blocks  the 2240 copes fine but I will struggle with short duration changes in power.

I have a brand new Flux - unwanted gift - £385 delivered or £375 collected from N.Wales.

Check out the Elite Qubo Digital smart b+ for £250.

I ave used mine for 2 years, still going strong, works great with zwift, trainerroad, bkool or Elites own apps.

The Elite beats the Tacx in resistance lag, but thats about it.   TBH im a but hung up on the 6% max incline on both.   If im climbing up Alp du Zwift i want to be able to feel it...

Elite direto, yeah its more but feel Alp du Zwift you will (15% max from memory) and it'll cope with your 1000+W

So, Wiggle loyalty will give me 17% off until 5:30 toinght.  That puts a Kickr Snap at £414 or £405 for the Tacx at Halfords...

aaarch decisions...

Those sort of wattages I wouldn’t be looking at the tacx flow. Some of the intervals I do currently involve holding 580w for 2 mins and the flow tops out at about 520.

Mine doesn't. Are you sure you had the updated firmware?

It also lags to the point where short intervals are pointless. By the time it gets up to resistance the interval is over.

It does lag - 2 seconds is my reckoning. No good for proper short intervals (<10s) but fine beyond that IME.

I gave mine away as it was useless. I have a neo now and intervals on that feel similar to on the road.

I am intrgued by this - I got my flow on the recommendation of several people who'd all had them for a while. I've been using mine for a year now and my experience just doesn't seem to match up with yours at all. It really sounds like yours wasn't working right or didn't have the updated firmware.

If you have a low ftp the flow would be fine but higher than 300 and look at something else.

311 for me...

Thought the general idea was to switch to slope mode for short intervals anyway?

Kryton, could you not save for a bit longer and go for a reconditioned Kickr?

So, Wiggle loyalty will give me 17% off until 5:30 toinght.  That puts a Kickr Snap at £414 or £405 for the Tacx at Halfords…

aaarch decisions…

Have you read the DCrainmaker reviews?  I just pulled the trigger on the Tacx after reading them.  although I have a 20% discount card for Halfords which helps a bit

check out dcrainmaker for comparisons of all of them and more detailed reviews than you could ever want.

Have you read the DCrainmaker reviews?

I am doing so yes.

I've put the Tacx Flux on order to Halfords as that my current choice, although its not as easy to store.  I could also look at an Elite Rampa for £375 but am put off by the sounds of the fiddly software, over £30 for the Flux.

It does seem as though the Tacx is close enough on power for me to not bother changing my crank either, and at £405 for a coached rider seems a worthy and consistent investment.

could you not save for a bit longer and go for a reconditioned Kickr?

The 2016 units wahoo have are till £699.   Will I really get £300 better service from it, especially considering I already have a 4iiii for the power element?  I'm not so sure...

It does seem as though the Tacx is close enough on power for me to not bother changing my crank either

this is what sold it for me, and getting it for £360!

The 2016 units wahoo have are till £699.   Will I really get £300 better service from it, especially considering I already have a 4iiii for the power element?  I’m not so sure…

Fair point, I've just ditched my Stages for a second hand Kickr and it's so much better.

But that said the Stages was only ever used indoors and struggled to maintain a decent bluetooth connection with my iPad, I had a good price on the trainer from a mate so sold the Stages to finance it.

I don't regret it for a second but you may have had no trouble with the 4iii

The tacx flux may get even lower in price over the coming months as the Flux 2 is out next month,just saying.

how is flux 1 for noise levels?

I don’t regret it for a second but you may have had no trouble with the 4iii

I haven't no, its been brilliant.  No issues indoors connecting to Zwift, or outdoors, ever.

I had 2 2240s before giving up. The first one constantly slipped the wheel even with the tack turbo tyre. The casing was also out of alignment so something inside clicked to the point of distraction. The second one also had wheel slip under high power which I fixed by removing the tension screw and replacing with a longer bolt and a couple of locking nuts. The main issue with the second one as mentioned above is that it will not hold high enough power. I gave up on doing short intervals and ended up only using it for sweet spot with erg mode holding it at 360 ish Watts for 20 mins.

I gave it to a mate who has an ftp of 150watts and he finds it perfect for the Zwift structured workouts but without trying to sound nasty his high power 10 second efforts top out at similar wattages as my 20min intervals.

Well I picked up the Halfords Flux -10% no issues.

Set it up, did a quick spin on the Surrey hills and yes it got harder as the hills got steeper.   Not sure how to switch it to Erg mode yet...  otherwise all good!

sounds like it is in erg mode. What app were you connected to?

You should also do a spin down calibration before each ride, and even 8 mins in according to dc rainmaker.

goes into erg mode in training sessions, where it requires 200w for 5 mins, that what it sits at

good vid on GPLama - lots of good vids here for newbies to Zwift as well,

Thanks.  It wasn’t in erg mode it was following the Zwift terrain.  I’ve now discovered that the Workouts (fed to Zwift by TodaysPlan in my case) have a button to click if you want to engage erg mode.

I’m thinking that for my holding 200w / Z2 for an hour it’d be good, but for 1 min at max watts attempts type intervals it’d be horrible as my legs start to give out after 40s have passed...

Fot the Winters days where weather / ice prevents me being on the road it’ll be erg mode off for a ride sim.

Tempted to put my 4iii on today and see how the numbers compare as I’ve a generic ride to do and am time limited.

Pretty much what I’ll be doing, erg for intervals (5 minutes etc) but switching it off for the shorter VO2 later on and free rides on FulGaz when I can’t get out 👍

FFS.  Just completed 2hrs Surrey Hills.  I do have a cold and am hungover / went to bed tipsy at 1am but still that felt bloody hard, I'm sure it was as harder than on the road.

I stuck my 4iiii on and used my Elmnt Bolt to keep and eye on its output vs the tacx.  There were moments it was dead equal, than over 200w things seemed to be awry.  200w shown on Zwift via Tacx was 225 on the Bolt.   Some swapping around of readings show even a 4iiii vs 4iiii disparatey, so I'm guessing the bolts arithmics are different to Zwift.   So I ended up - knowing my HR should be at 130bpm 200w yet with an elevated HR of 146 due to the cold - swapping PM's on Keith's Hill.  I noted at 200w my HR was the same regardless of PM, so I just think its the regularity of the Bolts readout is different.

Glad I got past the dreaded "1 hour test" on the Tacx meaning I don't have one of the early fault belt drives.

Did a one hour trainer road session on mine last night. Very impressed with the smoothness and also how quickly it altered the power, the change appeared almost instantaneous. Went from 100 Watts to 250 then a smooth 30 second ramp up to just over 300w that followed the TR profile perfectly. All my intervals were bang on the required power output using erg mode and the flywheel kept things smooth.

Only downside was a strange chemical smell which I am assuming is grease or oil used in manufacturer dissipating due to the heat (it got very warm)

overall impressed so far

Likewise ^^

I wasn't particularly smooth yesterday but did a mid Z2 ride.  I noticed my Flux was adjusting constantly to my terrible technique moving +/- 5w either side of target before it caught up but over a duration of 1:05 (excluding warm up / cool down either side) the post interval average is exactly on target.  I did have a "play" but slowing / speeding up my cadence to see how it reacted for shits & giggles.

Erg mode being all good for these longer intervals.

So what's the verdict on the Flux?

Worth the money?

Very impressed with the smoothness and also how quickly it altered the power, the change appeared almost instantaneous.

Fwiw, you want some sort of lag between low and high power efforts or it's like hitting a wall when the higher effort kicks in.

I noticed my Flux was adjusting constantly to my terrible technique moving +/- 5w either side of target before it caught up but over a duration of 1:05 (excluding warm up / cool down either side) the post interval average is exactly on target.

That's just normal. You can't produce on the nail power, it's always going to fluctuate. Some trainers use smoothing software to disguise it, but underneath it all, everyone's power jumps around.

The main thing to remember is be smooth and maintain your cadence. The trainer will apply the load at whatever rpm your spinning at. If you go over your planned limit it will ease off. So if your within a few watts of the target your ok. Dont stress to be spot on its almost impossible to achieve. On big sharp increases - increase your power smoothly and quickly but try not to overshoot as the trainer - then you will try and compensate to bring you under the set power.

Fwiw, you want some sort of lag between low and high power efforts or it’s like hitting a wall when the higher effort kicks in.

i get that, but with a lot of structured interval sessions you are jumping significantly between wattages and it may be over short periods, for example you could be in a 10 minute block at 320w that has a number of 5-10 second intervals at 700w. With some trainers by the time they have caught up the interval is over.

So what’s the verdict on the Flux?

Worth the money?

so far yes, it’s a much better experience over a normal wheel on turbo, and even a cheaper smart turbo. I don’t know if I would pay £450 for one though but I’m happy with a £360 outlay so far

I noticed my Flux was adjusting constantly to my terrible technique moving +/- 5w either side of target before it caught up but over a duration of 1:05 (excluding warm up / cool down either

the turbo manufacturers tend to design more smoothing into their numbers, it’s basically a lie to make you look smoother than you are. If you compare with your PM the headline number will be similar but you’ll see way more variation.

In terms of training benefit it’s largely irrelevant, but it’s nice to look at a smooth graph so there’s a psychological upside to it

i get that, but with a lot of structured interval sessions you are jumping significantly between wattages and it may be over short periods, for example you could be in a 10 minute block at 320w that has a number of 5-10 second intervals at 700w. With some trainers by the time they have caught up the interval is over.

Yep, there's a kind of optimal transition time, where you have just enough gradation to hit the target, but not so much that you  end up losing the benefit of the interval. The Kickr seems pretty good.

The Sufferfest has a useful article which breaks down smart trainers into, I think, three bands - basic, medium, advanced, or words to that effect - and lists which of their workouts each can handle in ERG mode.

Mostly the top-end trainers can handle all of them, bar some of the really short, sharp, sprint ones when you have to use slope mode.

So what’s the verdict on the Flux?

Worth the money?

IMO, definitely worth the £405 from Halfords.  ERG mode will keep me very honest where needed so I'll be getting more out of those, but principally - and this comment just on Smart Trainers - I found that my two hour Zwift was of a higher benefit in that becuase the hills felt more "real", my brain/pedaling adjusted accordingly to the slope changes which I can only think is an added overall benefit to training - its very different to steady state trainers.

For me, the key thing about these smart trainers is that they only have a demonstrable benefit when used regularly and in conjunction with a training app like trainerroad, zwift, sufferfest etc. so you need to add in your subscriptions costs to work out if the overall cost is worth it.