[Closed] What on earth is wrong with Steve Jones?

Classic Jones innit, you're not supposed to be able to understand it. It's always a shock when he manages to express a clear opinion, even if 9 times out of 10 it is "This frame is too small for me"

But, basically he is saying that the CCDB is great but too complicated for mortal men. Then lots of handwaving.

He wrote the blurb for that Pinarello promo video, you know.

yeah the size things an obsession of his!

average height (for a bloke) is 5'9 all he can talk about is finding the perfect frame for 6footers!!

average height (for a bloke) is 5'9 all he can talk about is finding the perfect frame for 6footers!!

only because dwafism is more prevalent than giganticism. 5'9 is short i by any measure.

As much as many company’s shout about a shock being tuned for the suspension design the bikes – and yes many of them do have a reasonable middle setting – most bikes still come with a massive amount of unwanted, unnecessary dial adjustment. In the past decade we’ve been dumped with a crazy amount of decision making on the dials out of nothing more than laziness, cluelessness or money counting from many companies. It’s not uncommon to now see twenty clicks of high speed, a similar number of low speed plus the same again in rebound.

He's not wrong here though is he

I dunno, I bang a shock on, put some air in/turn the coil, set the rebound til it goes "badoing" at the right speed and then lock it out. Any other dials I don't pay attention to.

Munrobiker - that's what Steve's saying!

Why didn't he just say that then?

it means that bloke from trek might win something??

If you read the whole article quickly it makes sense....

company’s

Any journalist publishing that should be sacked on the spot.

Any journalist publishing that should be sacked on the spot.

How can anyone who write's for a living make such a basic mistake?

that's the editors fault, if you ask me.

Jones is also deputy editor 😆

TBF you should just think yourself lucky you could read it at all, normally they'd have printed it in dark blue on a purple background to hide the words, or light blue on cyan, or crimson on black... (as a wee legibility test I passed a copy to my dad to see if he could read the words. "What words?"). Invisible ink on a transparent page.

[s]t[/s]That's the editor's fault, if you ask me.

FTFY.

My key word there was "publishing", not writing.

Still, if he's dep-ed, still appalling.

FTFY.

Think you may have missed bigrich's continuation of my little joke. 😉

Possibly.

Is this the (now) thin pamphlet dirt mag with the wall to wall ads?

Fantastic sales team

Weak leadership Editor and direction. (And yes I told them this- they didnt reply).

Pity dirt over the last year was improving again (in the old days it took loads of toilet visits to get through).

Now its a photo/lifestyle gear mag.

The last great rare article was about travelling Pedro'.

think yourself lucky you could read it at all, normally they'd have printed it in dark blue on a purple background to hide the words, or light blue on cyan, or crimson on black.

^^^ exactly this ^^^

Dirt is a very good publication badly assembled by a bunch of lunatics. A bit like the Surfer's Path but with no consideration for layout and design.

Jones is bonkers. Totally unintelligible. Always has been, clearly always will be. It's like listening to spud from trainspotting during the job interview. You just have to accept that and move on to the next article.

It's like listening to spud from trainspotting during the job interview.

last time this topic was discussed jonsey popped up on here to say hello............... will he bother this time?

Sentences. Throwing Words at them isn't always an improvement. Wordiness is a growing trend but who knows if it's for the best. Certainly it gives us feelings and impressions. A more talented craftsman should understand the finer points and may get the best from it. Simply skim reading will yield you very little. Try looking at the pictures - it doesn't always pay to align your prose when the bikes is so graphical.

Seriously - even if you speak Jones you don't learn a lot from his articles, and they never seem to be convinced that anything is execptional or rubbish.

At least Dirt employee riders who can ride - if they say a bike is good dh you can believe it.

Very recently all we get from STW - is elbows out, uncomfortable looking on anything technical Dave.

All said and done the Ohlins can still be dialed into a less than optimum by way of going for the harder or softer setting in the wrong environment on the compression particularly but crucially the adjustment is at a very rough guess about 15% off optimum compared with say 80% possibility found on many shocks. This is a massive benefit for any level of rider.

Kimbers. I'd say sort it out. Its a slender ad mag now. Embarrasing.

I think it's some of the funniest stuff ever printed. Pure LSD style rambling that you couldn't make up.

All said and done the Ohlins can still be dialed into a less than optimum by way of going for the harder or softer setting in the wrong environment on the compression particularly but crucially the adjustment is at a very rough guess about 15% off optimum compared with say 80% possibility found on many shocks. This is a massive benefit for any level of rider.

That one had me crying with laughter. It's like a window into the mind of a madman. Nothing personal though. I bet he's a great bloke.

The thing is there are a couple staff at other mags in the UK that, if they joined Dirt, could make an amazing mag/website. Especially with Dirt TV and the Jones comedy column.

Rik - Member

At least Dirt employee riders who can ride - if they say a bike is good dh you can believe it.

OTOH if Singletrack say a bike is good, you might understand what they're saying 😉

I am quite drunk but it it makes sense to me - I think he's saying that even when set up wrong they're not very wrong whereas you can set up other shocks very wrong when they're wrong.

Sound like classic jones, so in answer to the OP, I'd say there is nothing at all wrong with him. Functioning as normal.

well ive now read the article, the grammar and spelling arent great but it all makes sense (both the article and the shock)

my main issue with it all is that its a 10 grand DH race bike with an upwards of 500 quid shock upgrade

how many people will ever get to ride it?

Rik its the pages of ads now that irritates me. Like an insult. Why dont the 'riders' start a new mag? Away from the psychological noise. ..oh wait. Ah $$ sell out.

FFS if you read this, sort out my throne reads again. Dirt belongs by the bed/throne NOT on the coffee table.

the next time you're in a meeting at work read it verbatim and see if anyone notices

Grammatical niggles aside, I like his writing style. Sometimes it makes my head hurt, but most of the time, when I read his words, I hear his voice in my head, and his enthusiasm pours off the page.

It's also reassuring to me to know that he is an accomplished rider. I'll take the opinion of an expert bike handler over an expert word wrangler. As Wade Simmons says "if you're not a ten out of ten rider, then how the hell can you judge if a bike is a ten out of ten".

I still think there is a need for slightly more editorial constraint, but when you consider the volume of content dirt generates across multiple platforms, it's easy to understand the slackness in that regard. I'd rather have the great coverage of national, european and world cup dh, and local and international enduro on an almost rolling live basis with some spelling errors, than have it two days later in the queen's.

well said jimjam

As Wade Simmons says "if you're not a ten out of ten rider, then how the hell can you judge if a bike is a ten out of ten".

Have they considered the fact that the best bike for a 10/10 rider may not be the best bike for a mortal such as I. Personally I would rather hear the opinion of a useless northern mincer than a riding god as i am closer to one than than the other

jimjam - Member

It's also reassuring to me to know that he is an accomplished rider. I'll take the opinion of an expert bike handler over an expert word wrangler.

Bit of a balance innit. You don't want someone who's useless at either, it doesn't matter how good they are at one if they can't do the other.

Like, I saw Chipps at the endurance downhill and thought fair play, you are not a fast uber downhiller but if you want someone to speak for the capable enthusiast/have a go rider which is probably what most of us are, he is ideal.

OTOH I saw Janet Coulson writing in MBR about how suitable her longtermer is for enduro racing. But the reality is, she only really knows how suitable it is for pushing down the tricky bits. There is a bare minimum point below which you just aren't qualified to talk about a subject.

Junkyard

Have they considered the fact that the best bike for a 10/10 rider may not be the best bike for a mortal such as I. Personally I would rather hear the opinion of a useless northern mincer than a riding god as i am closer to one than than the other

Imo, at a basic level a reviewer is expected to have a level of expertise in whatever the subject is he or she is reviewing. Otherwise, why listen to their opinion.

With regards to DH bikes (which is Jones' main field) a reviewer should have an extremely high level of competence in order to determine whether the bike is actually any good in comparison to it's competitors. If you can't ride extremely steep, rough, technical, terrain quickly then how can you judge the relative merits of a bike which is designed to do exactly that?

If you can't do large jumps or drops at speed, typical of what someone might encounter on a dh track, then how can you tell how a given dh bike will cope in that scenario?

Furthermore, I believe it would be much easier for an expert rider to suppose,speculate or consider how a beginner might find a bike, than it would be a beginner to judge a bike's suitability for an expert.

Northwind

Bit of a balance innit.

Absolutely. You wouldn't want someone completely illiterate for example. But it would be equally worthless to have a rank amateur rider review a downhill bike or an am/enduro race bike and compose a beautiful review of how well the bike rides up and down gravel paths.

In any aspect of life, if you need an advice or opinion on a subject you will generally seek out the person who you regard to be the most expert person you know in that field.

The Welsh dyslexic mountain biking lovechild of James Joyce and Cormac McCarthy. I like the way Singletrack is put together but the whimsical mincing content just irritates me now. Dirt is too badly written and edited for me to be happy paying for it but I'm very happy to collect old copies from my LBS as it does at least inspire me to ride my bike! And sometimes deciphering Jones' prose can be an interesting challenge... 😉

bring back jerry dyer if he hasn`t been banged up for his rumoured love of young girls!

C'mon.....how can you really take issue with his writing style?, in a world populated by anodyne magazine editors/article writers who spiel such inane comments that bore you shitless when reading their articles "jonsey's" writing style is a breath of fresh air and to be commended - Gonzo mtb journalism perhaps?. I'd much rather read an issue of dirt than any other mag these days, despite never having rode a F-S bike since i borrowed a Commencal Meta 5 back in 2008 for a day trip to the Lakes.

I've had the pleasure of showing him around our local trails for a Dirt Photo/roadtrip article a few years ago, along wi Joe Barnes, Stu Thomson and Liam Moynihan and it was an amazing "learning/riding" experience as what i had previously considered a straightforward bit of trail turned into a total "pop-skip & jump" section followed by a corner carving session taken at an unbelievable speed that i have no hope of ever matching nor knowing quite how they managed it. A **** good laugh and to see how others who are genuinely world class on a bike ride your local trails is a real eye opener as to just how mediocre you really are....i did manage to stuff him wide on the inside line of a berm though so i rode away very happy with my minuscule victory 😀

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Leave him alone. Steve Jones is tops.

good points in the article though - once you can read it quickly..

Having a coversation with him is exactly the same; he talks just as he writes 😀 Infact, he rides much the same too! He knows what he's doing and saying and if you analyse it enough it mostly makes a lot of sense. Now, must go and lick a stick-on tat... 8)

Just to be clear Im semi-OT on this topic Im grumbling about recent dirt mags/lack of content

Gonzo ?

Hunter S Thompson at least had a proof editor !

That's just shoddy and cheap.

I just can't read Dirt anymore, it's not just the typos that should never have made it all the way to print, sometimes there are whole paragraphs of text that have just fallen out, did anybody try to read the article on biking in NZ recently ? One minute they are biking along the west coast then you turn the page and they are in a B & B in Nelson.

I'd proof read it for free for them, in the interests of the English language, but I doubt they would be organised enough to send it all out 24 hours before publication.

I'm not really sure on his point about "too much adjustment" however.

Lets say you have a pair of shocks, where the rebound can be controlled between say 1NS/M and 10NS/M. One shock has three settings, one shock 10.

Lets say the optimum setting was 6NS/M. Which shock can be best set up, and which can be set up the worst? On average, the 10setting shock has a distribution of setting probabilities that are closer to the optimum!

And, lets face it, if you're really too stupid to understand what as few as 4 dials/levers do, well, let's face it, you're pretty stupid (or haven't read the manual (or can't actually read 😉

company’s
Any journalist publishing that should be sacked on the spot.

Haha, have you seen any spelling by schoolteachers lately? 😆

Still, if he's dep-ed, [s]still[/s] it is appalling.

FTFY

[quote=maxtorque ]I'm not really sure on his point about "too much adjustment" however.
Lets say you have a pair of shocks, where the rebound can be controlled between say 1NS/M and 10NS/M. One shock has three settings, one shock 10.
Lets say the optimum setting was 6NS/M. Which shock can be best set up, and which can be set up the worst? On average, the 10setting shock has a distribution of setting probabilities that are closer to the optimum!
And, lets face it, if you're really too stupid to understand what as few as 4 dials/levers do, well, let's face it, you're pretty stupid (or haven't read the manual (or can't actually read

But in the same way for any bike 70% of the settings are stupid/wrong/unrideable, you don't need them on the outside you can do it on the inside.

Is it time for the annual jones bashing thread again?

I like his gonzo style, I also respect the fact he is a decent rider and passionate about the sport. He has also turned dirt into arguably the most influential (and best) mag in gravity mountain biking. Maybe you are just not the target demographic!

will people stop calling this gonzo journalism FFS!

it's just very poor writing

yunki

it's just very poor writing

Would you care to post up your own bike review for scrutiny?

will people stop calling this gonzo journalism FFS!

it's just very poor writing

Yunki is right. It [b]is[/b] very poor writing. This in itself isn't a problem if there isn't a total failure of proofreading and sub-editing, as appears to have happened to Dirt.

mikewsmith - Member

But in the same way for any bike 70% of the settings are stupid/wrong/unrideable, you don't need them on the outside you can do it on the inside.

Yesssss. But. How will the more tightly tuned shocks cope with fat biffers with 1500lb springs on? My DHX4's got a load of settings I'll never use, because I weigh as much as a child, but a shock for a production bike's got to cover all the basis- rider shapes, sizes, styles and tastes. It's hard to see how the shock can do both.

I love Dirt and I love Jones' writing style - I always think it's pretty much like a transcript of how a bunch of us would talk about the way a bike feels at the bottom of a fast DH run - not 100% coherent but full of enthusiasm and throwing in loads of descriptions all in one go.

I'd rather read that than some story of a geezer solo riding for a billion hours to find himself any day...........

Would you care to post up your own bike review for scrutiny?

really!!!?

no I ****ing wouldn't.. I'm a housewife and visual artist, not a payed journalist..

If you were sold a strawberry yoghurt that tasted of rancid pus and gave you galloping diarrhoea and you complained about it, would you then be expected to produce a good yoghurt to prove that you have enough experience to denounce the yoghurt as shite..?

no

That said, I could probably still write an infinitely more coherent piece than the examples of monsieur Jones' lazy and demented spewings that have been cited in this thread

Andyrm- Really? Do you actually talk like that? How do you ever get your point across?

It isn't gonzo. It's illegible. You can never tell if he actually likes a bike or not, he can slag it off for five paragraphs then end by saying it's great. The worst I remember is the Orange Blood review a few years ago.

I know he's a good rider (mind, so are Muldoon and Milner from MBR, and Janet is nowhere near as bad as Northwind implies, certainly relative to other women at the same race), but if you're a good rider and a crap writer you'll never get your point across and shouldn't be trying to convey your opinions in exchange for money.

Good heavens you boys.. It's blue blooded murder of the English tongue..

[url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/profile/hora ]I have seen that writing style somewhere before, though.[/url]

I can't comment on the journalist concerned but I'd probably forgive him as long he didn't refer to a bike as having "pop" or being "playful". Ghastly trend.

johnnystorm - Member
as long he didn't refer to a bike as having "pop" or being "playful". Ghastly trend.

hey.. shut up! My last bike was very perky.. like an eager spaniel

but if you're a good rider and a crap writer you'll never get your point across and shouldn't be trying to convey your opinions in exchange for money.

Unless of course there is a demand for your journalistic style - and seemingly there is, from the views on Dirt TV and mag sales. Maybe, just maybe, the demographic on STW is very different to that of Dirt and therefore content and style is different to suit?

yunki

really!!!?

no I **** wouldn't.. I'm a housewife and visual artist, not a payed journalist..

If you were sold a strawberry yoghurt that tasted of rancid pus and gave you galloping diarrhoea and you complained about it, would you then be expected to produce a good yoghurt to prove that you have enough experience to denounce the yoghurt as shite..?

no

Yeah yeah, rancid pus, diarrhoea. But what if everyone else thought the yoghurt tasted fine? A bit different from the norm perhaps, somewhat home made maybe. Taste is always going to be a subjective thing, and given Jones' popularity and that of Dirt I'd say you're in the minority. If you actually are a visual artist I'm sure you know fine well that some people like your work, others will call it shit out of hand.

And....

That said, I could probably still write an infinitely more coherent piece than the examples of monsieur Jones' lazy and demented spewings that have been cited in this thread

You post on a mountain bike forum, presumably you own and ride a mountain bike. You obviously believe you could do better going by your grandiloquent posts. Hence my earlier request.

To attack someone, then say you don't need to prove yourself because that's not your job, but to finish and say you could do better anyway is conceited in my opinion.

I can't say Jones' style bothers me enough to get all angry about it. He seems genuinely passionate about it all. Some of his minions on the other hand... I'm not sad to see that Billy-the-web has gone, and the guy who did the recent Myles Rockwell interview should shot. 99% of it was the interviewer gushing about Aaron Gwin and showing no interest in Rockwell. I'm praying it's not him who's doing the Missy interview in the next issue.

jimjam -

ok - you're obviously his mate or something or have a thing for him or whatever

I bought a copy of Dirt mag once - the typeface and layout and colours made me feel a bit seasick.. I struggled through a couple pages and vowed never to buy it again..
Now looking at some of the examples of the writing on here, I see that the writing style has the same effect on me.. makes me feel a bit dizzy and is very difficult to try and decipher any meaningful narrative from..
I have no idea if I could do better, and I'm wondering why you seem so interested in whether I could.. It seems an incredibly peculiar way to judge the bloke in question's lack of skill.. 😕

By comparing his writing to that of someone who has very little interest in reading or writing bicycle reviews, especially reviews that have been written as badly as the examples cited in this thread..?

I feel a bit bad, cos I realise now that Steve Jones is only like 15 or something so as an erudite 40 something it's really not my place to judge what goes down in youf culture.. (I had no idea who Steve Jones was which is why I opened the thread)
I was just having a laugh with my response to you..
I don't want to get into a debate, I couldn't really care less, and I've only responded again cos I think you're taking this all a bit too seriously and now I think you're a bit of a dick and I'm a bit offended

I'm conceited as a peacock if that makes you feel any better, so you have managed to be correct on [i]that[/i] point at least 😀

My only (lighthearted) beef was with people comparing this to gonzo journalism, which was a quite important political movement conducted by some extremely radical and intelligent people in the 60s..
I'll go and get myself a copy of Dirt this very afternoon though, and struggle through it to discover if it has the same political weight

I'm sorry if you felt that I was mean about someone that you like.. I hope it hasn't upset you too much

Think there's a wee bit of an assumption from some folks that mocking Jonesisms means you don't like the mag... Dirt is the best UK mtb mag, despite its eccentricities and flaws. It could be better, quite easily, so it probably should be but that doesn't make it bad.

I wonder how far Jones is now writing to the expectations...

Dirt is ace and I really like Jones' writing style.

His reviews on kit & bikes help me make an informed decision - I have in the past bought two bikes, based in part on Jones' reviews. Those bikes have been the best bikes I have owned.

But what if everyone else thought the yoghurt tasted fine?

but they don't, hence this thread

besides, my analogy is correct.. I don't see how you can argue with it, maybe you've been dumbed down by reading too many poorly written magazine articles..?

perhaps your brain is turning to yoghurt..!?

I feel a bit bad, cos I realise now that Steve Jones is only like 15 or something

You obviously have no clue what you are talking about!

Steve Jones' grammar may not be perfect, but he knows how to ride a bike. Dirt is good to read and features real mountain bikers. STW is for mincy, single-speeding ****ts, as evidenced by all the threads on road-bikes!

I don't really like the Singletrack magazine. It is a bit too nichecore with all the bivvying and stuff. Though I remember it having a big singlespeedy image even though, by the time I stopped subscribing in about 2006, I'd only seen one SS in it.

Dirt is a decent mag, but Jones's writing is getting worse by the issue and I may stop spending my money on it since I can't understand it. I pay for the magazine based on how good a read it is, not how good a rider its "journalists" are.

I only read one issue, it featured an article about someone growing a beard.

My judgments were based solely on the contents of this forum.

I'm going to have to agree with Yunki...

Steve Jones is not really what any other area of journalism would accept as an able journalist, that fact is probably compounded by the lack of editorial control evident when you pick up and read Dirt.
His philosophical ramblings leave me cold, and just seem like attempts to make the self evident or mundane seem in some way profound, he write about bicycles and riding bicycles, it's not that deep really...

It's certainly not Gonzo journalism it's just poor writing with enough fanbois blowing smoke up his arse that any [I]"Haterz"[/I], those who dare to be critical, are just shouted down for not agreeing

Why defend someone for doing a shite job just because they have enthusiasm, an enthusiastic but shite police officer or paramedic would hopefully not be able to carve out a similar 20+ year career without any noticeable improvement in their work (although I'm sure there are more than a couple of examples).

I remember when Dirt first started up, they were writing about the sort of mountain biking that I was interested in, it's Sloppier [I]Cut'n'paste[/I] style and numerous typos were something you were happy to overlook because of the general feel of it, the (for the time) wonderful photo's of riding and racing set it apart. And yes the enthusiasm of Jones and the others that produced it outshone the polished glossy crap that was MBR/MBUK...

The trouble it that was 20 odd years ago, and now while they'll happily price Dirt at the same level as the comics it once put to shame, the writing is at about the same level it was back on day one, there's been very little evolution, just glossier paper and some layout tidying.
Pretty pictures are still just pretty pictures, only now they're all over the interwebz, as are badly written articles about mountain biking, so why pay for Dirt.

I really don't think it offers anything like the VFM it once did. Part of that is because Dirt did influence a whole generation who've all been through university and popped out the other end keen to create publications and websites pretty much in the same vein as Dirt, you can get access to the same sort of writing and images without paying a penny...

More generally Dirt has just become another overpriced lifestyle pamphlet for middle-upper income types to nonchalantly leave on view on the coffee table, along with some snowboarding/skate/BMX/Surfing mags so that any visitors are made well aware of their Rad^Gnarr proclivities... The quality of the actual product has become secondary to the image it projects...

Flame away Biaches...

nonchalantly leave on view on the coffee table, along with some snowboarding/skate/BMX/Surfing mags so that any visitors are made well aware of their Rad^Gnarr proclivities.

i just leave mine in the bathroom for pooh time reading material, I cant say I leave it there for others to find

Though I remember it having a big singlespeedy image even though, by the time I stopped subscribing in about 2006, I'd only seen one SS in it.

There was a singlespeed group test a while back, which was the first one they'd ever done.

ST appeals to me, but then I am part of the middle-aged mincecore target market.

I have to add to all this that Steve Jones' webcast 'interviews' on Dirt are a buttock clenchingly painful experience.

As if to evidence just how down-with-the-stars he is, he exudes this overly familiar nonchalance around them, which is painful to watch. A recent one with Dan Atherton was wincingly bad. He may have been 'hanging out' at the Atherton's place (lucky for him), but when viewed TBH this piece was seriously lacking in any sense of basic media awareness..

Shameful.

I didn't realise that he was Mr Dirt, because up 'till then I actually thought Dirt was cool.. *hangs head in shame*

More generally Dirt has just become another overpriced lifestyle pamphlet for middle-upper income types to nonchalantly leave on view on the coffee table, along with some snowboarding/skate/BMX/Surfing mags so that any visitors are made well aware of their Rad^Gnarr proclivities... The quality of the actual product has become secondary to the image it projects...

I'm a digital only subscriber. 😛

whimsical mincing content

Harsh but fair.

I've grown quite fond of Jonesy's reviews personally. I get disappointed when they let someone else do a review instead and there are no comments about the large size not being big enough.

And some of you clearly haven't read Dirt for a couple of years, they had a big redesign, went more mainstream and stopped printing black on blue, etc.

You obviously have no clue what you are talking about!

Aaah well, ignorance is bliss

Steve Jones' grammar may not be perfect, but he knows how to ride a bike.

that is absolutely fascinating

So... has ST gone all [i]whimsically mincing[/i] now then? Last time I bought a copy (+2 years ago) it seemed to be a magazine almost entirely devoted to which bike and/or niche product combination was best for riding down slippery stone steps in Calderdale.

chakaping - Member

And some of you clearly haven't read Dirt for a couple of years, they had a big redesign, went more mainstream and stopped printing black on blue, etc.

No they haven't 😕 Last time I noticed it was just a few issues ago. Article on Hafjell possibly? Something like that anyway. And they still do the "oops, paragraph printed off the page" thing too.