[Closed] What new 'enduro' bike?

Get the YT, you won't regret it.

I went from a 26" Five to the Capra and it is like night and day in comparison.

That carbon Cannondale Jekyll from Paul's is £2K.

Any of those Jekyll's left at Paul's?

Or Kona process 153s on very good deals at wheelbase

Don't know, the one in my basket keeps on getting removed!

I'd have a Canyon Strive before a Capra

Yes they are, in all sizes.

After so many threads on here about shockers with orders and customer service from YT or Canyon, I woul dbe snapping this up before it goes!
[url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/vitus-bikes-escarpe-pro-suspension-bike-2015/rp-prod124011 ]http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/vitus-bikes-escarpe-pro-suspension-bike-2015/rp-prod124011[/url]

Or this from your LBS, incredible ride and spec.
[url= http://enduro-mtb.com/en/the-review-whyte-g-150-scr-works-150-mm-enduro-bike/ ]http://enduro-mtb.com/en/the-review-whyte-g-150-scr-works-150-mm-enduro-bike/[/url]

#SupportYourLBS 8)

Capra isn't the be all and end all! It has many rivals that ride just as good, better and with a bit more class. I'd stick them all on a wheel, spin it and throw a dart. Enduro bikes are all so similar just now it's daft thinking there's much point deliberating 🙂

[url= http://www.orbea.com/gb-en/bicycles/rallon-x10/ ]Orbea Rallon[/url]

Recently went from a 26" Five to a (2015) Rallon and loving it so far

I'd consider the Canyon Spectral too.

No shapeshifter to worry about/add weight, great geometry and a lot more versatile for most UK riding than a 160mm enduro sled.

glasgowdan

Capra isn't the be all and end all! It has many rivals that ride just as good, better and with a bit more class.

I'm not sure about the "class" thing, the Capra is a nice looking bike but I agree, it's not the be all and end all. People seem to buy it purely based on the spec and crow about what a great bike they have because it's got shiny bits.

I had my reservations about the Capra when I saw the geometry and that's been confirmed any time I've ridden one (albeit briefly). If you look at the tt on a medium capra compared to say, a Reign it's 40mm shorter. So what you might say, well if I've got 170mm of travel I'm going to want the stability to exploit that.

From the ad for that Vitus above

The rear axle is the now industry standard 142mm x 12mm E-Thru platform

Hahahaha! Oh, sh*t.

haha, it probably was... when they wrote that

By class I mean less common! 😉

[img] [/img]

😉

If you wan't to replace the 5, then I would suggest a Trance. Wind the forks up to 160mm and it will more than capable for enduro racing and imho a better trail bike than a long/slack enduro bike will be.

Bit over budget (carbon frame): http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-gb/bikes/model/trance.advanced.27.5.1/25013/90558/

Less over budget: http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-gb/bikes/model/trance.27.5.1/25011/90560/

I can't fault my Trance, descends and climbs/pedals equally as good. Did contemplate a Reign and in the future a Reign is likely to replace my DH bike.

So looking around at other stuff - my riding I'd describe as technical trail riding with some enduro racing thrown in so my requirements are 650B, 140>160mm travel and long and slack. Budget, I don't want to spend more than £3k so that brings up the obvious one - the YT Capra. The top spec carbon thing with BOS suspension and Crossmax wheels etc is just over £3k and the less gaudy coloured one is a fair chunk less.

Only you said you wanted something long & slack rather than about average.

£3k, there are plenty of bikes i'd consider over a Capra. In fact I wouldn't consider one at all.

"All that glitters is not gold".

I've only spoke to three Capra owners properly but none were fully happy with their bikes, weight seems to the main gripe - alu and carbon versions.

glasgowdan - Member

By class I mean less common!

Ah right. I hear ya. Commonality wouldn't bother me if it was sorted though.

Hob Nob

£3k, there are plenty of bikes i'd consider over a Capra. In fact I wouldn't consider one at all.

"All that glitters is not gold".

Do you have a Reign Hob Nob?

I do.

Do they still do that horrible thing midway through the travel where you feel the bike grow? You'd be G-ing out through a corner or compressing over something and it felt as the rear wheel had just broken away from the frame.

I had a Glory and rode a few Reigns and they all did this. Not sure if I'm explaining it right, but they just blew right through the last 30% of their travel, badly unsettling the bike as it shifted weight. Other people I've spoken to noted the same characteristic. I'd be keen to get a second hand frame, assuming they've remedied this quirk.

Cheers for comments so far.

So looks like the Capra is an average frame with average geometry with lots of top spec shiney bits?

Had a look at the Giants - don't really float my boat.

Saw the Vitus on CRC - looks ace so thats going on the list.

Not even thought about the Whytes - last time I took notice of a Whyte it had Maverick forks!

Had a look at the Giants - don't really float my boat.

Oh come on, this could be you 🙂

I've never even thrown a leg over an older Reign/Glory so I don't know about that sensation?

The current one doesn't seem to do anything like that - they are, like nearly every DW bike i've ridden pretty active in the middle of the travel though & personally I find it could have been designed with a bit more progressiveness towards the end of the travel, as it's got a slightly higher leverage ratio than most, it can bottom out a bit too easily.

Nothing that can't be remedied with some volume spacers in the shock though, to be fair. That's me nitpicking though - I appreciate not everyone will have such a spectrum of use for theirs.

last years process 153 Dl can be had for <£3k

Hob Nob

personally I find it could have been designed with a bit more progressiveness towards the end of the travel, as it's got a slightly higher leverage ratio than most, it can bottom out a bit too easily.

Nothing that can't be remedied with some volume spacers in the shock though, to be fair. That's me nitpicking though - I appreciate not everyone will have such a spectrum of use for theirs.

That sounds suspiciously like the older ones, albeit not to the same extent. I'll have to figure out a test ride if I decide to go any further, which shouldn't be too hard. Geometry looks spot on though.

Obviously you should be buying my almost mint Bird Aeris in the classifieds!!

People seem to buy it purely based on the spec and crow about what a great bike they have because it's got shiny bits.

I didn't, I got the cheapest one available at the time. I bought it because it had good reviews and was killer value for money. Isn't that what most people consider when they're buying a new bike?

I'm not suggesting the YT is the be-all and end-all cos I've not ridden every bike available (and I suspect neither has anyone else on here), however the OP said he had already narrowed it down to the YT and (as an owner of one) I was merely confirming his choice as a good one.

Have you given any thought to clownwheels? BMC Trailfoxes were horrible value at RRP but the prices got absolutely slashed. The basic spec isn't brilliant but I think you could find a 2014 model for well under your budget and spunk the rest on geegaws. Love mine, it's not massively slack what with being a 29er but the wheelbase for my medium is as long as some XLs, and longer than my old DH bike. It's a big unsubtle brick of a thing

Yeh, been looking at the Orange Segment but when I get into 29ers I'm into a whole other world of not having a clue! 650B I can just about get my head around and I just get a feeling that 29" would feel a bit unwieldy for twisty/jumpy stuff for my short arse size.

I've tested the Whyte for a long weekend of local and trail centre riding. Liked it a lot, but its a lot of money compared to say the YT.

The CTD shock was not adjustable on the fly, which is a shame.

If you ignore the top spec on the YT its price is still hard to beat. Id see if you can borrow one for a spin to see if it suits you.

poisonspider

I didn't, I got the cheapest one available at the time. I bought it because it had good reviews and was killer value for money. Isn't that what most people consider when they're buying a new bike?

Well I can't speak for most people but the first thing I consider is geometry. Second would probably be kinematics/dynamics, how the bike rides. Componentry would be almost irrelevant because I usually throw everything out and put my own bits on. Reviews would be equal last as 95% of them tend to be bullshit these days. I used to put more credence in reviews until I saw some of the reviewers riding and realised they were pretty crap, that and a marketing manager explained to me how they could and would collapse any magazine just by removing their adverts if they didn't get favourable reviews (believe that if you want).

Value for money is a bit of a grey area, debateable and subjective. To me if a bike has terrible geometry it'll never ride well, so the componentry or perceived value therein is academic. When I first saw the Capra announced it struck me how close the geometry was to the Lapierre I'd just snapped in half and that bike was dog shit.

So looks like the Capra is an average frame with average geometry with lots of top spec shiney bits?

A bit harsh. 😐

Didn't mean to come across like that 😉

[i]Obviously you should be buying my almost mint Bird Aeris in the classifieds!! [/i]

Can't be any good if you're selling it already 😉

Had a good look a the Aeris and that also features on the list but I can't quite think it looks a little "thrown together"? In all seriousness, I'd love to know how they ride.

Just looking at Cotics website and I'd love a Rocket. Wonder if I could do a budget build with last years bits etc...

Well I can't speak for most people but the first thing I consider is geometry. Second would probably be kinematics/dynamics.

With the greatest respect to 'most' riders, I doubt they would be able to tell how a bike is going to ride based on the geometry numbers on paper, let alone the implications of 'kinematics/dynamics'. I doubt many would even know what it meant never mind being able to predict it.

Yes a steep head angle = twitchy, long wheel base = stable, low BB = lower c.o.g, etc etc but the a half degree here and a whopping full degree there that separates many of the bikes in a specific genre, nah, don't think so!

Plus, the static numbers are meaningless when you factor in suspension design and sag, rider size, rider ability to position themselves correctly etc.

Whilst I accept some reviews may be bullshit, I suspect it would be more well documented if a bike was universally rated by magazines (because they were afraid of adverts being pulled) but was actually a turkey.

(I can't imagine that applies to YT, they're not big enough to bring a magazine down through pulling adverts!!)

I have to admit I struggled a bit with the new geometry at first, maybe I'm too short at 5'8" to ride a medium with its 620mm top tube.

It was wicked fast though.

I'm with child now so I'm down sizing to just one hardtail until such time that I have more time! Motorbikes went last month 🙁

DaveyBoyWonder - Member
Had a good look a the Aeris and that also features on the list but I can't quite think it looks a little "thrown together"? In all seriousness, I'd love to know how they ride.

Just looking at Cotics website and I'd love a Rocket. Wonder if I could do a budget build with last years bits etc...

Contrary to what I said earlier DBW, ignore anyone who says 'you should by xyz', half the fun of getting a new bike is the searching and comparing options. Read as much info as you can from a range of sources (including magazine reviews), then just go with your gut and pick something. It's such a personal thing, nobody has the same priorities and ability to assess all the data, that's why there's so many options. Let's face it, there's no such thing as a crap bike these days.

poisonspider

With the greatest respect to 'most' riders, I doubt they would be able to tell how a bike is going to ride based on the geometry numbers on paper, let alone the implications of 'kinematics/dynamics'. I doubt many would even know what it meant never mind being able to predict it.

Yes, my point exactly. A classic example I saw myself was when CRC bought all the old Sunn stock. People would constantly ask what I thought of them and I (not on commision) would tell them they were horrible, but with a good spec. More often than not it was impossible to explain, and they buy the bike (returning soon after puzzled why their friends cheaper bikes felt better). Explaining that a lesser spec bike with better geometry could be a better bike was an almost impossible task with a lot of customers as the only thing they can quantify is the £££ "value" of the parts bolted to the bike, even if these expensive parts were temperamental, unreliable, proprietary etc .....hence my point about the Capra being bought purely on spec by a lot of people.

Yes a steep head angle = twitchy, long wheel base = stable, low BB = lower c.o.g, etc etc but the a half degree here and a whopping full degree there that separates many of the bikes in a specific genre, nah, don't think so!

Plus, the static numbers are meaningless when you factor in suspension design and sag, rider size, rider ability to position themselves correctly etc.

The numbers matter, and give the best indication of how the bike will feel. A degree here or a degree there can be huge, same for 10,20,50,40mm differences in key measurements. It's a far more useful thing to look at than what tyres or rear mech a bike has at any rate.

I'm currently wishing I had £3600 (yes, just a little over your budget) for this: http://www.freeborn.co.uk/specialized-enduro-expert-carbon-29-2015
[img] [/img]
Enduro 29er widely described as the bike that redefined what 29ers are capable of. They do it as an identical-spec 650B if you didnt want the big wheels, but having ridden one, I would.

When I first saw the Capra announced it struck me how close the geometry was to the Lapierre I'd just snapped in half and that bike was dog shit.

Not sure that's a fair comparison either, the suspension design is completely different. Static numbers are meaningless (as a direct comparison alone).

That's like saying all cars with the same wheel base and track width are going to drive the same! Nonsense.

hence my point about the Capra being bought purely on spec by a lot of people.

Not sure that's true either.

Back to the magazine reviews argument. The consensus has been it's a great riding bike AND it has a great spec.

Like I said, I doubt YT have the advertising clout to get all the magazines to say its a great bike if it wasn't.

The 2014 Capra got 10/10 in MBR so I guess that must count for something - I'd assume the 2015 was better and the 2016 one better still?!

The 'average frame and geometry' has stayed the same, just that there's now an Ali version.

poisonspider

Not sure that's a fair comparison either, the suspension design is completely different. Static numbers are meaningless.

That's like saying all cars with the same wheel base and track width are going to drive the same! Nonsense.

No, you're assuming that the suspension design of a bike can overcome it's shortcoming in geometry - it can't. The Zesty/Spicy was too short in the top tube, too high in the bb so it lacked high speed stability and suffred terribly on high speed steeps.

If you've got a 140mm bike (Zesty) which lacks high speed stability with similar numbers to a 170mm then it tells me the 170mm bike won't be very stable or confidence inspiring at the supposedly higher speeds it's intended for.

poisonspider - Member

Back to the magazine reviews argument. The consensus has been it's a great riding bike AND it has a great spec.

Like I said, I doubt YT have the advertising clout to get all the magazines to say its a great bike if it wasn't.

Well first, it wasn't anyone from YT who said that, but it was an illuminating remark. Also, YT are famous (notorious/infamous) for their "hospitality" towards visiting journos, so make of that what you will.

The other thing I said about magazine reviews is, some of these guys writing the reviews are no better or worse than you or me. I'll say it again, when I saw some journalists riding it was rather eye opening. Now, I'll go the other way and say some of them are super riders - I was lucky enough to get a day riding with Nico Baisin of Velovert while he was testing the new Focus Sam, and he's a serious rider.

Northwind - Member

It's a big unsubtle brick of a thing

You're really not selling it 🙂

No, you're assuming that the suspension design of a bike can overcome it's shortcoming in geometry - it can't. The Zesty/Spicy was too short in the top tube, too high in the bb so it lacked high speed stability and suffred terribly on high speed steeps.

If you've got a 140mm bike (Zesty) which lacks high speed stability with similar numbers to a 170mm then it tells me the 170mm bike won't be very stable or confidence inspiring at the supposedly higher speeds it's intended for.

Sorry JJ but I'm going to have to disagree again. (I'm not spoiling for an argument honest, I'm just not getting where you're coming from)

If the two bikes had the same static geometry (which is what I believe you said) then the amount of travel/suspension design does play a big part. If you've got 170mm to play with at 35% sag you can slacken the dynamic angles more than a 140mm travel bike setup at probable 25% sag. Not to mention how progressive the travel is/isn't.

The two bikes would ride completely differently.

The other thing I said about magazine reviews is, some of these guys writing the reviews are no better or worse than you or me.

In that case, how do we know we're right and they're wrong?

poisonspider

The two bikes would ride completely differently.

Yes they would. But not enough to overcome a fundamental flaw of having far too short a tt. If you have a DH bike with a 300mm top tube, it's going to be a bitch to ride down stuff.

poisonspider

In that case, how do we know we're right and they're wrong?

I'm simply pointing out that there is questionable validity in a magazine or online review. You have to take it with a grain of salt, a reviewers opinion is subjective. Geometry is not. If some guy minces down a blue trail on a 160mm "Enduro weapon" then declares it a great bike, what use is that.

I'm simply pointing out that there is questionable validity in a magazine or online review.

Or a contributor on a forum perhaps?

I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

If you're suggesting the YT and the Zesty had similar geometry and the Zesty was pants downhill, therefore the YT must also be pants downhill, why has it pretty much universally been applauded for it DH abilities? I simply don't accept that's because the magazines have been bribed or because the reviewers are crap bike riders.

poisonspider - Member

I'm simply pointing out that there is questionable validity in a magazine or online review.

Or a contributor on a forum perhaps?

Don't be so hard on yourself 🙂

poisonspider

If you're suggesting the YT and the Zesty had similar geometry and the Zesty was pants downhill, therefore the YT must also be pants downhill, why has it pretty much universally been applauded for it DH abilities? .

Find me a recent "Enduro" bike that hasn't been universally praised for it's DH abilities. Forget the Zesty, take the Spicy, which I converted my Zesty into. There were so many rave reviews about that bike, universally lauded for, well, everything. And yet I've yet to meet anyone who's opinion I valued in any way who didn't hate their Lapierre.

I simply don't accept that's because the magazines have been bribed or because the reviewers are crap bike riders

Let's not fudge things together here. Not all journalists are great riders. Not all reviews are impartial. If you've been flown across Europe, put up in a luxury hotel, plied with fine food, and all the coke and hookers you can eat then ferried around awesome trail centres then you may well be more open to the idea of writing a favourable review of a bike. The irony is it doesn't even really matter since most people want to read a favourable review of their next purchase. It seems one of the main functions of a bike review is to validate the next purchase, rather than objectivity or criticism as evidenced by the fact that you're just cherry picking bits of what I say and arguing with me presumably because I'm criticizing your chosen bike.

I made a perfectly valid statement about what I look for in a bike, contradicting yours, and you've tried to dissect every point.

And yet I've yet to meet anyone who's opinion I valued in any way

And I think I'll leave it there.

I am looking for ideas as well,like the look of the Last Coal (daft name I know}
can be run as both 27.5 and 26 so could use forks and wheels from old bike until I could afford to buy new
http://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/first-look-the-last-coal-enduro-bike/

Or do I buy British
http://empire-cycles.com/product.php?xProd=44

[i]can be run as both 27.5 and 26 so could use forks and wheels from old bike until I could afford to buy new[/i]

or just carry on running the old one?

One thing I will point out is that looking at effective top tube is a really bad idea when comparing the geometry of bikes - the actual length of the 'cockpit' (for want of a better word for the human side of the bike) will vary hugely depending on the stack height and seat angle.

A long travel 29er with slack seat angle will be a FAR shorter bike than a short travel 27.5 with steep seat angle, when both have exactly the same ETT.

Use reach instead. It tells you horizontal distance from head tube to BB. Way more useful!

If you're thinking about a Canyon, do it with your eyes open. Fantastic VFM for sure but terrible quality and customer service. The Strive I've had since mid August has spent more time broken than working and I'm still waiting for the shapeshifter failure I experienced 2 months ago to be rectified ... this wouldn't be acceptable on a £200 Halfords special never mind something costing more than 10x as much

I would struggle to look past an Specialized E29.

More bike thank most people need and a lot of 2015 models got no cheap.

Have you thought about a Norco? I have a carbon sight, but the range might be more your thing.

*does the classic thing of recommending what you ride*

Commencal Meta AM V4. Good value, good spec, great bike.

Have you seen the price of the last of the 2015 enduro comps http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Specialized-Enduro-Comp-650b-Mountain-Bike-2015-Full-Suspension-MTB_72434.htm?sku=225968&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=AdwordsProductAds&utm_campaign=Adwords&gclid=CMHqi9-z8sgCFdVAGwodhPcCrg#

With 3k you could buy that, a reverb, some handbuilt wheels on pro 2 and maybe have a little change towards saving to replace all the sram crap it comea with

Have you given any thought to clownwheels? BMC Trailfoxes were horrible value at RRP but the prices got absolutely slashed. The basic spec isn't brilliant but I think you could find a 2014 model for well under your budget and spunk the rest on geegaws. Love mine, it's not massively slack what with being a 29er but the wheelbase for my medium is as long as some XLs, and longer than my old DH bike. It's a big unsubtle brick of a thing

Nosedive is bang on the money with that.

All other options become redundant.

http://activesport.co/epages/80c85f8f-7a95-4b1c-9c30-e64b314f3f2e.sf/?Locale=en_GB&ObjectPath=/Shops/80c85f8f-7a95-4b1c-9c30-e64b314f3f2e/Products/50133414/SubProducts/50133415&ViewAction=ViewProductViaPortal

OTOH, that's Mark Anthony Bikes, I wouldn't buy a pound off them if they were selling it for 10p.

All other options become redundant.

Nice? I forgot where we were for a minute.

STW where we overlooked the best performing kit for the shiny stuff to show off to people with.

Jesus christ

jesus Christ

Rode a specialized?

Died young too. Coincidence?

may I also recommend an orbea rallon, because its what I ride.

Other bikes on my shortlist:-

-enduro 650b
-canyon strive
-mondraker dune
-Yt capra (although the geometry never looked right and too many tales of cracked frames)

Bikes are just tools to go out and have fun on,which my Capra Comp 1 has given me lots of every time and everywhere I've ridden it over the last 3500 odd miles and 10 happy months .I'm sure I could of had just as much fun on a much more expensive bike as well though.
It appears they have just launched a new spec one for around £2800 🙂

[img] [/img]

[i]I've ridden it over the last 3500 odd miles and 10 happy months[/i]

That's going some, almost 100 miles per week.

Have you considered the Ibis mojo HD3?
It goes up as well as down...

The cube stereo HPA 160 looks great. Last year's is a steal now and comes with F36s. 2016 has boost sizing so might possibly be future proof.

But they'll probably reinvent the wheel before long.

Had so much fun on my 2010 Orange 5 today. Such a shame that all its sizing seems to be hard to get now (1 1/8" steerer, 26" wheels, 135/12mm rear axle. 27.2mm seat post etc etc....). Still a great ride tho'

Bikes are just tools to go out and have fun on,

But they're not; that's only part of it. If you just use your bike for "going out and having fun on" then you're missing half of the fun!

The other half of the fun is chatting about them on internet forums...and for that job, the likes of the YT Capra is useless. Bought by the types of people whose wardrobes probably contain an item of FireTrap or SuperDry clothing, they are the most generic/dull/tasteless bike on the market.

A three and a half grand full suspension super bike with Kashima might impress your nextdoor neighbour's children, or the lads on the shop floor; but if you want to impress the real cyclists on the internet then you need to broaden your horizons. Boasting about how many miles you've done just makes you sound big headed.

Sorry for the rant.

Trying too hard.

Mondraker Foxy or Dune? Next year's colours look sweet
[img] [/img]