[Closed] What more can I do? – Car v’s bike content

Gun.

Explode on impact?

Not much you can do about drivers not looking, if anything a flasher or 2 red and white on the side they come at you from might catch their eye if nothing else, that and ride further out into the lane so you have a bit more time and line of sight into the slip road

Quick answer is 'avoid those spots, and a bright always-on flasher light on the bars'.  You seem to have the lights covered tho.

Used to commute through those towns regularly, aeons ago (Stourbridge to Blackheath) And it was a bit bonkers in the rush hrs.  I found that I was happier to set off half an hour earlier, put an extra 3-4 miles in by taking some back-routes.

Glad you weren't seriously hurt but (as you seem now aware) that's not a reliable predictor that this will always be the case.  I got dragged around an island by a careless/dangerous (delete as applicable) driver in a flat-loader once.  Not pretty, but I lived to tell the tale and avoided that island ever after.

OP, where's the 'blackspot' that you mention?

Only real answer is to slow down and be ready to stop - you have to ride defensively, even if you have right of way. Which is unfair, wrong, and all of those things, but having right on your side doesn't help if you're under a car.

@Malvern Rider the cars have pulled out of (niche local knowledge ahoy):

Road by The Gate at Colley Gate

Road between Park Lane and the Lights by Tanhouse

Road just after Lye Football Club, opposite the Land Rover dealer

Road at the top of Lye High Street, used to be a pub on the corner

For what it's worth I asked my wife look at me on a bike from a drivers perspective and her view was I look like a Christmas Tree, she's of the view that SMIDSY is not reasonable given my attire and kit.

Plenty of canals around there, use them as much as possible. Like Malvern rider says, leave earlier and take a slightly longer (but safer) route.

Change route.

I had a couple of incidents on the cyclepath next the the A316 near Richmond and came to the conclusion that it's a) poorly designed and b) full of drivers not paying attention. So, I go a different way now.

Four times then I'd be changing the route. Although the range of times and locations does suggest you've just been really unlucky - like it's not one junction with a weird line of sight, or very early morning driving bellends etc.

Change route or slow down. you only live once no point being killed getting to work

jimdubleyou I ride that cycle path to work a few days a week and agree it’s lethal if you are trying to ride fast. I wish they would make it priority for cyclists given most cars stop to turn left anyway and thenblock the cycle path. Wouldn’t be like this in Holland

Bright helmet light (eg joystick). You can direct it at drivers waiting to pull out. It's annoying for the driver but at least they see you.

I think you know the real answer.

You don't want this to be read out at the inquest.

I'm not (just) being an arse - I've done 100 road miles in the last week.  All kinds of road, all times of day & night.  Including riding to town and back this morning in snow.  But when that sort of thing happens 4 times...

OP you are not doing anything wrong.  You can't do anything else to make motorists notice you.

As above, only answer is to stop riding there, for you own sake!

You've already got the lights, reflectors and clothing pretty much amped to the max so not much more you can do there. Personally I'd change the route even if it added a bit more on. My direct commuting route to work used to be 15 miles, my quiet towpath route was closer to 20 but crucially only took about 10 minutes more due to the it being a mostly clear run.

Bright helmet light (eg joystick). You can direct it at drivers waiting to pull out. It’s annoying for the driver but at least they see you.

I wouldnt suggest dazzling drivers.  It's illegal.  A bright helmet-light on the road is not safe for any number of reasons/possible outcomes.

OP, where are you heading from-to (roughly)?

Lunge your a brave man going round coley gate , I go a extra 5 miles out my way so I can use the mainline canal to Smethwick instead of the roads due to a few close misses over the last few years

Taking an alternative route is a pragmatic response, and it's a perfectly reasonable choice, but it has two issues: firstly it may not actually improve matters for yourself because other routes often have similar issues or introduce others, and secondly it slightly worsens things for everyone including yourself, because it just adds to the hegemony of bikes being hounded from the road.

The semi-pragmatic option would be to be extra cautious and to fit a camera and start sending this stuff to the police. None of the junctions you mention are blackspots in the DfT data, so you've no chance of persuading the local authority that the infrastructure is inherently dangerous, and it seems entirely justifiable to at least consider that anyone failing to see you could be hauled up for at least careless driving. Problem is, looking at the map, I think you're under West Mercia rather than WMP, so you're up against it a bit there. (But the more people trying to pull WMerc up to WMids' standard the better…)

To be honest, you're going to completely unreasonable measures to try to be seen, but—no surprises—it just doesn't work if someone isn't looking. So I'd say no, there's no more you can do in terms of conspicuity. Your choice is avoidance (if possible) or trying to effect some form of change. Both are justifiable choices.

As is the gun 😉

Route is from Lye/Stourbridge to central Brum.

I'd love to use the canals but can't think of an even vaguely logical route. I suspect the answer might be to go through Pedmore and pop out at the very top of Colley Gate. Not an option I was hoping for but it may be the sensible on.

I have a bright helmet mounted light that I use to 'paint' any drivers/cars approaching from the side/sideroads. Couldn't care less if it's illegal - its saved me a few times.

The other issue you have to consider is that drivers HAVE seen you but just think **** em they're on a bike

I started road biking a year ago, not commuting just for fun, I learned very quickly that if you suffer a near miss you’ll most likely find it happens again and again in the same spots. Much as I shouldn’t have to as I’ve done nothing wrong I modify what I do in these places, if I’d been knocked off 4 times on that stretch of road I’d either avoid it, slow right down or ride on the pavement.

Can you go into more detail as to exactly what is happening, and how it happened?

Did you realise they were going to pull out too late? Did you consider moving over to middle of the road Could you see them looking at you? What's behind you (i.e. are you camouflaged to a driver?)

Not saying you did anything wrong, just trying to work it out. Something is happening and it's not good. There must be a reason.

I don't even feel safe driving through Lye and Colley Gate.

I suspect nothing you do will make a blind bit of difference.

Can you not go Quarry Bonk/Old Hill way? Or is that a bit climby?

Your wife will be able to see you because she is looking at you.

Your eyes and brain work in a way many don't understand.  I didn't when I started looking good at advanced motorbiking.

Have a read of the document linked and hopefully you might understand and able adjust your riding not because of the car drivers but because of how the mind and body works its very enlightening.

Could you be more primary? I'm convinced some drivers see the space to the right of cyclists as a gap in the traffic and pull into it without considering that the cyclist will hit them whilst they're pulling out. If the traffic slows down (enough that cars in side roads would be pulling out into gaps in it) I get over to the RHS as it makes you visible to oncoming cars turning right, as well as giving you options if someone does pull out.

I wouldnt suggest dazzling drivers.  It’s illegal.  A bright helmet-light on the road is not safe for any number of reasons/possible outcomes.

While blinding drivers with a laser pointer is illegal, as would deliberately dazzling them with a bazillion lumens, I don't think a joystick is in itself illegal. AFAIK the law says you have to have BS/EC marked lights at night but doesn't prohibit going above and beyond that (unlike German rules). And it does say (for cars) that you can flash to make other road users aware that you are there.

I have my helmet light on it's lowest setting, it doesn't need to be bright, just being able to 'flash'  cars by turning a spot on them does the job even if they're already creeping forwards.

I have a friend who is a physically great cyclist. But a nightmare to ride with. He seems to have been born without any innate 6th sense or at the very least a naive lack of empathy that other people are bound to **** up from time to time and to be ready for it. The sort of person who when riding towards one of those artificual road narrowings with a car coming the other way can't tell that they are going to get there at the same time or at a really busy junction cutting up the side of stationary traffic a driver might not see you and turn right in front of you or pedalling at full bore towards a roundabout when you think its clear sods laws says a driver joining the road a junction ahead might come barralling out. It's not that he has some sort of pro cycling rights agenda, he just does not seem to have any been born with the survival skill. In a car if he is driving I have to try and go to sleep. Whilst I try to react to the brake lights of the car two or three ahead on a motorway somehow it does not register to him that it is time to take action until the car in front takes action.

He bullseyed a windscreen of a car that turned right in front of him. The driver was at fault and he got a 4 figure payout. But of our group it was always going to be him.

Having a sixth sense of potentially dangerous road spots and easing back just a touch to improve your chance to react and increase your options might be considered by the cycling nazis as giving in but to me it's just common sense. I do it in the car too.

Could that be you too OP?

If you have done everything reasonable you need to decide if the risk reward-ratio is right for you?

It does not matter if you were right, or in the right if you are dead etc.

Helmet mounted lite and make sure you're looking into their eyes. Camera too

Did you report any of the 4 incidents you mentioned?

Come to think of it, does anyone collate (cyclist) accident information so as to highlight high incident areas? And perhaps look into ways to reduce the figures by means of traffic calming, bike lanes etc etc?

Get one properly bright light. Wear a bright helmet. Be ready to stop anyway.

A bit of experience might help, you could try some training too.

None of these are to say it's your fault, it's not but you can be right all day and still get just as hurt!

Route change. Once a month is a very high incidence. Or ride as if you are expecting to be hit and prepare to stop accordingly. I do this at every mini-roundabout after my accident. I just expect cars coming towards me not to stop if I'm turning right. It has since saved me on more than one occasion.

They won't see a helmet light because they are not looking,. At all.

Don’t wear pink?

bright lights

Wear red? Yellow?

Fit photon torpedoes and shields.

Know the roads well, and as stu said, I don’t feel safe driving along there in my car during commute times. Could you get the train to Galton Bridge then ride long the canal?

It sounds like you are very visible already, I don't think adding more lights or anything like that is going to help because clearly the issue is that the drivers that hit you didn't look.

It's very easy to spot cyclists if you are looking, even the ones dressed in dark clothes with no hi-viz or lights, because people are not invisible or transparent, making yourself visible is great, but it only works when people are looking.

So...since clearly a proportion of drivers on your route aren't looking properly the only options left to you are to either not be there when they pull out, or for you to be the one looking and planning for them being idiots.

I'm not suggesting you're riding dangerously or anything, but that if you don't want to simply take an alternative route then you might have to start riding differently, slowing down, more anticipation, different positioning etc. With the ultimate goal being that people don't pull out on you and hit you, they might still pull out on you but because you'll already have clocked what they're going to do and mitigated/avoided for them it hopefully wont result in another collision.

I have been knocked off a few times over the last couple of decades, and every single time although it was 'unavoidable' by the time it was happening, I did see the situation unfolding, if I had been anticipating better I might have been able to avoid it. I'm not victim blaming, and it's certainly not fair that this kind of thing is necessary, but even if it helps you not get knocked off a 5th time it might just be worth it...

Hope you're not too banged up and that you heal fast, try not to let it knock your confidence either.

Google suggests this

[IMG] [/IMG]

Most of it's been said already - I have a camera, I make sure is running on my black spots - but I know them, so I'm more careful - one is a massive bus/cycle lane, small junction just before a roundabout. 'Oh 10 seconds ago I overtook a cyclist, but I've completely forgotten that now, so I'll stop and let this car out of the junction' goes the brain of the moron, time and time again.

Fact is, I have stopped going the short route, because the traffic is horrible (Portsdown Hill, for those who know it (they're nodding, sagely)) and started taking the little country roads. It's amazing how many quite roads there are round here and it's made my commute much more enjoyable. (I know! what's wrong with me? I have a CAMERA, I'm supposed to be looking for trouble, not actively avoiding it! )

But yeah, OP go the best way home, as has been said, it doesn't matter how much you make yourself visible, if morons ain't looking they ain't gonna see ya. Be safe.

Being flippant but remove all the lights and wear black.... As these are the cyclists all car drivers see, mention and complain about....

difficult to add anything to all the advice above ... Hope you heal fast and get a solution..

Riding bikes on the road is not safe. 🙁

Go in the car and then ride off road when you get home.

Go in the car

Yeah, give up and just become traffic 🙄

A few things I could suggest

As i think others have said could you ride further out into the road?.  My primary position which I use 75% of the time in town is in line with the driver of a car or even a bit further right.  Also cover the brakes at all times, disc brakes and wide sticky tyres and also at EVERY junction with a car in it waiting to come out I watch the top of the wheel - that gives you the first indication they are moving.  Helmet light to shine at the car driver in the side road is also a good idea IMO

Just in addition to my first post OP - I've been commuting for years, mainly urban/suburban roads. Had a couple of collisions of varying severity, but you can avoid most of them with road positioning/foresight.

I'd say it's a rare commute where someone doesn't do something stupid around you, but if you take the car from time to time you'll see that most of this is due to people being people, nothing to do with what vehicle you're in. I've even done the odd really stupid thing from time to time.

Obviously good brakes are a must. fatter tyres make little difference unless the road surface is really poor, any high end tyre has plenty of grip, except when you hit a diesel spill or muddy patch in the wet, or of course ice.

I use a torch (a Phixton a100 as it happens) on the handlebars pointing at the road just in front of my wheel. Set on strobe and with the zoom set right it makes a round patch of bright flashing light 5 feet across, it makes you look bigger and is very hard to miss.

The other thing with wearing a helmet light and getting into the habit of 'painting' / illuminating approaching side on drivers is that you've spotted THEM first, if they still pull out at least by that point you should be covering brakes or have weighed the options.

If speeds are 30mph high and you have traffic approaching from all angles then bail out, take the pavement. It's not your fault the infrastructure isn't safe enough.

Another thing I do after watching the top of the front wheel is as soon as I see the slightest movement of the wheel I scream as loud as I can at the car driver - this has worked on a few occasions as they look up, see you and stop again

Riding bikes on the road is not safe. 🙁

Go in the car and then ride off road when you get home

It's not riding bikes on the road that's dangerous, it's not paying attention whilst conveying your vehicle (of whatever type) that's dangerous

Thanks for all the ideas folks.

I think i'm pretty good on road position, in areas I know there will be a challenge, I ride in the centre of the road and try to give myself somewhere to go either way. Still worth being aware of though.

Re. helmet lights, I do try and look at the people in the side roads and do have a helmet light, maybe I need a more powerful one.

Someone asked about the actual incidents, simply, me on the major road, people pulling out from the side roads, to turn right across me. Some have stopped then gone, some just gone.

I think the answer might just be as I feared that I need to change routes, which is annoying that I have to concede but for my own safety and sanity, it may be the answer. I'd love to get on the canals but not sure how without going under the Netherton Tunnel (not sure) or getting the train to Smethwick (at which point I may as well stay on the train to work).

Oh, and re. the regularity, I've ridden this route on and off for a long time with the odd incident, but the 4 on 4 months in a similar area is a tad concerning.

I think on  the basis that this has happened multiple times involving different drivers then there is something a bit more fundamental going on that dozy drivers not looking properly before they pull out. Clearly the design of the junction is a factor here. People don't generally go out in the morning to  knock cyclists off their bikes or pull out on them on purpose. Have you been  communicating with the local council  on this? If you are struggling with this junction then  you can't be the only cyclist that has had problems there, so given there have been multiple accidents the council has to take action.

At junctions look out for street furniture that may block those comming out of junctions view. Consider the shadow of these items. Adjust your position when you notice these items. Industrial BV estates can be bad for this

Well done for keeping on. It sounds like you're lit up enough. I don't have crazy traffic to deal with, but one thing I don't think has been mentioned and I find helpful is to make sure you've got the driver's eye contact. Until that point be slowing/prepared to stop on the basis the idiot will blank you. Riding in primary position helps, but I also feel moving across the lane can help you move out of the potential blind spots of A pillars and stand out a bit more.

Only one response so far has mentioned sound (screaming), unless I've missed another?

OP have you considered fitting something like the Hornit cycle horn?

Clearly the design of the junction is a factor here.

It was four different junctions, one incident per junction, one incident per month over four months.

From personal experience* I'm inclined to put OP's experience down to the increasing frequency of careless driving combined with a 'luck of the draw' to have happened in a cluster.

* I cycle a regular 16-mile grocery-run , mostly without incident but do have the odd driver pull out/cut me up, usually as I approach T junctions turnjng left onto main roads at a busy time of day. Drivers turning right sometimes cut the corner, across the broken lines in the centre of carriageway, not looking, missing my (stationary) front wheel by inches.   Yet last week this same ride saw:

1. Me descending Madresfield Rd approx twenty mph, past the cemetery (!), Middle-aged overweight man in silver Golf heading up the hill on other side of the ride decided to cut across me and into a driveway.  He checked his mirrors, but didnt look at me.  It was daylight but I also run a hub-powered front LED that is always on.  I now ride so defensively I watch the faces of nearly every driver so I saw what he was about to be doing and hit my brakes early.  He still just missed me.

2.  Ten mins later,  on cycle-path (not shared but parallel to pedestrian path) a runner decides to change direction both into and across my lane, narrowly missing a collision.  His head was down, he made no sign of having seen me.

3.  Entered another cycle-path, am rounding a bend very slowly as bush obstructing view, another on oncoming cyclist rounds the bend unseen and we nearly collide, both bailing off the path to the same roadside verge to avoid collision.

So, three near-impacts on one journey where normally there would be zero to one.  This is the way chance works sometimes.  But chance frequency doesn't excuse careless and or dangerous road users, and I do perceive that carelessness and self-centredness on the roads is on the increase, ormaybe ot was always that way and the massive increase in traffic makes it so much more obvious?

The lack of indicating and general awareness though is becoming a problem for me as a vulnerable road user.  When someone cuts me up in the car I just hit the brakes and shake my head.  When on the bike I am usually too shaken to shake my head.  Some days you ask yourself 'am I just in invisible'?  No, you're not invisible, the roads are just full of cockwombles and today is wombling day.  Watch their eyes, cover your brakes, take a longer safer route faster, or the current route more slowly (slow down and eyeball drivers when approaching junctions) if you're feeling the fear for good reason.

From RoSPA:

Human error is the main contributory factor involving cyclist collisions. Driver/rider error was the most frequently reported reason for the incident involving 71% of all reported accidents in 2016

In collisions involving a bicycle and another vehicle, the most common key contributory factor recorded by the police is ‘failed to look properly’ by either the driver or rider, especially at junctions.

‘Failed to look properly’ was attributed to the car driver in 57% of serious collisions and to the cyclist in 43% of serious collisions at junctions.

Other common contributory factors attributed to drivers are ‘poor turn/manoeuvre’ (in 17% of serious accidents involving a cyclist) and ‘careless, reckless, in a hurry (17%).

Cyclists are more likely to suffer serious injuries when a driver is judged to be ‘impaired by alcohol’, exceeding the speed limit’ or ‘travelling too fast for the conditions’.

Just had a thought, the bike I ride has drop bars and the lights are mounted near to the stem. I occurs to me that the lights may be partially obscured by the hoods and my hands, particularly if viewed from the side? Is there such a devise that could lift the lights up a bit somehow? Also, hi-viz/reflective bar tape?

^

stem-cap fitting accessory bar?

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/accessories/mounty-space-bar-ii-stem-cap-fitting/

or a stem-fitting one may be better (replaces spacers) if you have spacers installed

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/accessories/thorn-accessory-bar-mk2-t-shaped-105-mm-extension-254-mm-0-deg/

I have seen bar-mounted accessory-bars also, worth looking around.

ie

*Edit - oh there's loads of them you just have to browse all four pages:   https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/accessory-fitting-brackets/?page=4

Curious that the 57/43 figures add up to 100. Might check those later.

[i]Malvern Rider wrote:[/i]

2.  Ten mins later,  on cycle-path (not shared but parallel to pedestrian path)

You're splitting hairs a bit there - the only path I can think fitting that description after going down Madresfield road is the one heading to Morrisons. Sure there's a line down the middle, but I don't think most pedestrians have any idea they're supposed to be one side of the line - it's a shared use path for all practical purposes, a bit of paint on the pavement doesn't make a dedicated cycle path (personally I only use that if on a unicycle - on a bike I'll ride on the road as it's a lot less hassle). I certainly can't think of a single cycle-path around here which isn't shared - I'd love to be enlightened!

"

Human error is the main contributory factor involving cyclist collisions. Driver/rider error was the most frequently reported reason for the incident involving 71% of all reported accidents in 2016

In collisions involving a bicycle and another vehicle, the most common key contributory factor recorded by the police is ‘failed to look properly’ by either the driver or rider, especially at junctions.

‘Failed to look properly’ was attributed to the car driver in 57% of serious collisions and to the cyclist in 43% of serious collisions at junctions.

Other common contributory factors attributed to drivers are ‘poor turn/manoeuvre’ (in 17% of serious accidents involving a cyclist) and ‘careless, reckless, in a hurry (17%).

Cyclists are more likely to suffer serious injuries when a driver is judged to be ‘impaired by alcohol’, exceeding the speed limit’ or ‘travelling too fast for the conditions’."

This might be the case, but looking at the aviation industry for example, almost all air crashes are due to pilot error but the aviation industry doesn't' just sit there and just tell pilots to be more alert. They look at the circumstances around the pilot and what is causing that error, what is drawing the pilots attention, what might be causing confusion. And they always do something about it, make a change, to eradicate specific things that contribute to the pilot making poor decisions.

It is exactly the same in this circumstance. If the OP has been knocked off his bike multiple times by different drivers then it is not simply a fact of drivers being dozy....something is actively drawing their attention, distracting them. Something about the junction design, something about how traffic is moving on the road, something that the driver deems more important is diverting their attention from a potential up and coming cyclist. Drivers are obviously making poor decisions at that junction....why is that?

There is no such thing as an accident that is 100% the fault on one thing. They are always the result of multiple factors that on their own wouldn't cause an accident, but when occurring concurrently cause an accident. There are always other contributing factors and you're only gong to make things safer by identifying each and every one of those contributing factors and eliminating them.

The rider can only do so much, they can only influence things that are within  their control, but so much is outside the control of the cyclist which is where, sometimes other factors have to be studied and considered.

Sounds like the OP is doing all he can in trying to make himself more visible, but it is having no effect. Maybe a noise or horn of some type might work, but in modern insulated cars with decent sound systems there is no guarantee drivers will hear the sound. So the OP has 2 choices...he either peruses different approach i.e. get the council to look at the junction and see if there is anything they can do to make it safer (install traffic lights maybe? or reduce street furniture or slow traffic down around the junction), or he takes a different route to avoid the junction. Obviously carrying on getting knocked off his bike is not an option.

You’re splitting hairs a bit there – the only path I can think fitting that description after going down Madresfield road is the one heading to Morrisons

That's the path, along Townsend Way.  I'll own to joining you in hair-splitting there, aracer 😉

I  always consider pedestrians and animals first when sharing paths (even when clearly demarcated) not just good manners but they are vulnerable and so am I.  They can also be unpredictable, as was this runner who crossed the line/my front wheel in a brainfart/not-looking moment..  Although these (parallel) paths are clearly marked cyclists and pedestrians both on the path surface and on repeater signposts - I still slow when passing peds.  There's bags of space, but as per OP, any amount of visibility makes no difference to the wholly oblivious

Have you considered having a small light facing back at you  - not in your face obviously but to illuminate your torso?

I saw someone with that once and they really stood out. Never did it myself

wobbliscott

Again, per OP, it was four different junctions, one incident per junction, one incident per month over four months.  This is similar/in line with my experiences in general with road-users not paying careful attention at junctions, any junctions. Obviously some are poorer visibility than others due to any number of factors, but IMO carelessness + traffic volume is increasing.  Hence eyeballing every single driver,  slowing slightly and covering my brakes every junction.  I never used to do this all the time but times have changed and now I do.

I also got T-boned doing 25mph in my car along a high st approaching a village.  Passenger door was hit by another car, driver of which was exiting a side-road to my left.  Two pedestrians on the other side of the road refused to be witnesses as 'didn't see or hear anything'.  Invisibility factor again!  It was daylight.  But I was driving a black car... 👀

[i]Bez wrote:[/i]

Curious that the 57/43 figures add up to 100. Might check those later.

I'm utterly amazed that the cyclist was found to be at fault 43% of the time there - seems distinctly dodgy given anecdotal experience.

I often move out into the middle of the road so that cars joining from side roads can see me better.

Failing that, this makes enough noise to get even the laziest driver's attention:

https://www.cyclesurgery.com/p/airzone-airzound-3-rechargeable-horn-P5534057.html?channable=e11508.MTc5MzQ0XzEyNA&colour=124&gclid=Cj0KCQiA5t7UBRDaARIsAOreQtjnT4ma7Hr_B7-UvF5kj00AKM-NGKrnvTA2gzm1D_B_WbMtBVZwEG0aAge5EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds