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I have been putting off getting some decent lights for a while but decided to take the plunge and move away from chinese lights to something better made, brighter and will last a lot longer. Darkness is arriving earlier so now seems a good time.
Whats out there that people recommend. I do not need eye burning brightness (Or do I? ) will be for off road trails and XC style riding. Decent battery life and ideally no seperate battery pack.
Any good deals, and must recommends?
What should I be looking at lumen wise?
Obvs I could look through ALL the other forum posts made on the subject but be good to know if some are still the recommended e.g. magicshine. Or do I just go get the best exposure light I can afford? Are hope still rated?
I seem to have choice paralysis looking at all the options.
move away from chinese lights
I think you'll massively restrict your choice if you do.
I was meaning the ali express, ebay specials when I said chinese lights. the cheap ones with dodgy chargers and loose wiring 🙂
Such as these
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233794569959
Exposure
+1
I've not bought a new light in 6 years and my oldest is 10+ years old, but that's cos they're blindingly brilliant.
For MTBing I've got a SixPack mk8 (Sep 2018) and Diablo mk7 (Aug 2015), and for off-road commuting a Toro mk8 (Mar 2019). So my oldest is ‘only’ just over 10 years old and been used as my helmet lamp for every year.
Not cheap, but excellent value for money.
+1 for Exposure lights.
Brilliant quality, excellent customer service. Good range of spares and accessories (like extra brackets for all manner of weird shaped bars / seatposts). The new range is all USB-C charge port now so much faster charging as well.
I've got a couple of Exposure lights that are getting on for 8 years old but still going perfectly, however I'm looking at a new Diablo now for winter commuting.
Exposure is the correct answer, but I'm looking at the Moon Rigel Power (note there are three similar models, the Enduro and Pro are below the Power) as a bit of a more budget friendly option at the moment
I'm sticking with my pair of 4fourth lights. Uk made and I like having a separate battery pack from the light unit
Exposure +1
expensive on the day you buy em, but they just keep on working, so end up being good value overall.
Another +1 for Exposure.
As others have said, they are expensive but last for yonks. Also Exposure's after-sales service is excellent.
What should I be looking at lumen wise?
IMO 1200/1300 lumens on the bars and a 1000 lumen light on the helmet is more than enough for normal night riding.
You can run the bar light at 600/800 lumens and have the head torch turned off when you're going uphill or pootling along, and then both on full for technical and downhill sections.
I use a 1300 lumen Moon Meteor Vortex pro on the bars (remote switch is included) and a Raveman LR 1000 on the helmet. Both were about £45. Good lights, well made, and both are going strong after a couple of years.
Others will run more (much more in some cases!) 😁
I've tried various lights from the old Chinese ones, Halfords specials and Exposure.
Exposure is my answer nowadays. As long a you know you'll use them. They are expensive but VFM if great. They seem to last an age.
Exposure - good, compact, quick turnaround when you send them for repairs. Of the 5 here, only 2 are still working properly, so don't expect them to last forever.
Four4th - simpler than exposure, well made, very bright, no issues. Holy Moses and Scorch is a good combo.
Mtb Batteries Luminator - these were much cheaper, less bright but no issues. I don't think they are available any more though, but something like this to avoid a big spend is good.
Hope, been years since I had a Hope and it was good, broke a couple of times, but Hope fixed it quickly every time.
I've just bought another light set from MTB batteries. I messaged him and he still had some but said he wasn't doing anymore as there wasn't the demand and it wasn't profitable. Shame as I really like them, robust and simple. So it might be worth giving him a bell. I have an Exposure Axis and it'll probably be relegated to back up duties. I've never really been impressed with it, I don't need loads of different settings and the TAP is turned off. The on off switch is a bit vague especially in the winter with warmer gloves on.
Another vote for Exposure- I’ve had two Maxx-Ds in the last 16 years and both have been great, with the superb aftersales others mentioned
ive also had a Gloworm X2, which has been equally brilliant. A few niggles with the v1 but they swapped it for a v2 and that’s been rock solid for 12 years. They often come up on eBay for a good price so it’s worth a look
Have a Four 4th Scorch for my helmet lamp and was going to be using my Gloworm XS on the bars but having picked up a Troutlight lamp and battery I'm going to run with that! Agree with RicB about Gloworms though - great lights and at some point I'll get around to selling my X1 and X2 which were bought as spare lights!
Another +1 for Exposure.
As others have said, they are expensive
Same, but there is an 18% discount code in the members section. I've just used it to buy a Sirius and am thinking of a Strada too.
Gloworm, hmm. I had a bad experience with an X2.
Within 12mths of buying the switch broke/cable split and the battery housing cracked. The shop I'd bought from had closed, and the importer/main dealer refused to warranty it and were very unhelpful.
Wouldn't buy again.
I used to buy cheap Chinese lights every year. Always brighter than before.
Then I bought into the Exposure hype with a joystick and a Diablo . I’ve never needed more ,did buy a battery extender though.
Love that the trout light is still going ❤️
I've had several Moon lights including the Rigel and whilst they are great lights when they work, I've had some reliability issues. I had a comet-x completely fail (~ 6 months old) and my Rigel (~ 2 years) is now "unreliable" as it will turn it-self off randomly. Because of this I wouldn't get any more and am looking at Exposure.
Magicshine monteer and a joystick
Exposure.
The initial outlay is more than offset by their peerless customer service if something goes wrong.
Whilst they are excellently made, there's a lot of electronics packed in to a small space that gets jolted around a lot. Issues can happen. When my Diablo went wrong, I sent it off with a note about the problem. I got it back within a week with a note stating what they'd done. Fixed FOC, I just had to use an old helmet light for on ride. Ironically the problem was caused by the accelerometers for 'tap mode' which i switch off. This would be my only slight grumble about Exposure - tap mode is an unnecessary faff - set it too sensitive and riding chatter can change the power output. But if you set it less sensitive, you have to hit it so hard you move the mount. I just switch it off, but the accelerometers are still there and doing their thing.
This issue was a year ago, though. No problems since.
I still run Hope lights, and as stated really good at fixing but they don't show on the website any more
Are Lumicycle still a thing?
I'm still running a lovely c.2009/10 LED lamp on my bars with a tiny bar / top tube mounted battery that lasts all night on med / high. I supplemented that with a helmet mounted Exposure Diablo last winter. It's a great light, even brighter than my Lumi, but only lasts a couple of hours on the trail.
Are Lumicycle still a thing?
I was just thinking the same - looks like they are still in business.
My Lumicycle HID still strikes up. It sits in a box in my shed and I turn it on every now and then to check! 🙂
Exposure
Via their outlet
With the discount form stw membership
Exposure, for long term lighting, think of them more as an investment for the future, than this years latest toy to be replaced next year. TBH though, if you ride with a group something from Magicshine might also be a good choice. As Exposure don't chase the lumen output that MS do, and lots of ppl don't have an curtesy to not use the max setting when following you (overshadowing any lower output lights). I liked my Halford Advanced light too, mine is quite a few years old now but still working fine as a backup/loaner unit, surprisingly good for the money.
I believe a bar unit and head unit is the best setup, so you don't need one to be the most powerful, as the other will add to it's overall effect. IME don't buy a huge head lamp, you want something as low profile as possible, to avoid low hanging branches trying to rip your head off..
my boggo halfords special bar light (earlier version of the halfords-advanced-1800-lumen light) is the absolute best. £50 well spent. lots of teh group have exposure but i dont feel teh need to upgrade from this light. the light spread is excellent.
i prefer a more powerful helmet light to bar light so you dont get that horrible stobe effect from teh bar light in twisty trails.
i also prefer a more floody helmet lighht so you dont have that 'peering down a cone of light' feeling.
I`ve tried alot of light and i think i`m fairly unique/picky in my requirements!!.
I do actually have an exposure joystick, its mk7 so tops out at 400lm but for a headlight that will do for now.
What lumens should I be looking at for bar lights? Its been such a long time since I bought decent lights the lumen race has passed me by a bit.
Ironically my running headtorch is currently my brightest light.
If you are happy with 400 on your head, then nothing too bright - less than 2000 on the bars will be fine so you can actually see the head torch lighting things up.
I have lots of different lights and it depends on your riding as to what you need. 1200-1500 lumen bar light only is absolutely fine for general trails and we do use just that sometimes, although it does make some stuff more challenging but it’s fine really. For jumps, drops and faster tech stuff I need something brighter. I ended up with Magicshine Monteer 3500 and one of their helmet lights. I also have a joystick, but I prefer the Magicshine light (RN1500) on the helmet, it’s heavier but brighter and lasts longer. With my current set up, I’m happy to do decent drops, jumps and gaps, pretty much any of the stupid stuff I do in daylight. 🙂
My best non remote battery setup was a halfords 1600lm bar and a moon meteor helmet light. I much preferred the floody light on the bars to light up in front of me and to the sides, with a much more spotty light for seeing off where I wanted to be and round corners.
I have since moved back to stupid lights, a Monteer 8500S (on offer at the time) on the bars is all I need.
Exposure if you want an all in one (no separate battery)
If you are going to use it a lot (like once a week all winter, or more) then the price is a good example of Vimes Boots Theory.
Exposure if you don’t mind the initial expense.
if you need any after service their customer service is first class
Gloworm, hmm. I had a bad experience with an X2.
Within 12mths of buying the switch broke/cable split and the battery housing cracked. The shop I'd bought from had closed, and the importer/main dealer refused to warranty it and were very unhelpful.
Wouldn't buy again.
I remember this- around 2014/15? The UK sales guy was a member on here called neninja and posted a lot. He was really committed to the brand….and then just vanished. A few shops were in limbo with outstanding orders and the warranty support dried up for a bit.
mtb batteries then stepped in as warranty support and were great.
not sure Gloworm have a uk distributor anymore though?
my boggo halfords special bar light (earlier version of the halfords-advanced-1800-lumen light) is the absolute best. £50 well spent. lots of teh group have exposure but i dont feel teh need to upgrade from this light. the light spread is excellent.
That light is so good. I like shiny new things but I don't need to spend hundreds of quid to replace the Halfords light yet because it's perfect.
My Lumicycle HID still strikes up. It sits in a box in my shed and I turn it on every now and then to check! 🙂
Ha- I never had a lumi HID but I did have the twin halogen setup with 12w spot snd 20w flood. That was brilliant and the yellow light was much nicer on the eyes compared with the harsh white glare of leds
I have had several self-contained lights over the past 7-8 years. Evolva X8 (1800 claimed lumens) was good - 1 on the bar, one on the helmet - and were about £50 each at the time. They used tripod thread mounts so were fairly secure, and I think these are now SoonFire lights on Amazon.
Replaced these with Magicshine RN3000 on the bar and Ray2600 on the helmet. These were better lights than the above, but they were twice the price. Also better mounts as they used Garmin 1/4 turn. Lots of scrolling through the modes as you can have either LED or both on, low, mid, high, highest, flashing. That got dull fast.
Now on Exposure Maxx-D Mk13 and Zenith Mk1. They were relatively pricey, but I got them from their outlet store and 18% STW member discount, so all in, cheaper than the Maxx-D would have been from a shop. Way better than the previous lights like you'd hope. For a start, they don't have millions of modes to cycle through like the MS.
The Exposures are awesome, and I'd buy again. But then I do a lot of night riding so it's worth it for me.
I'm on my 2nd winter with Magicshine - would love an Exposure light, but they are just too spendy for me
There's been some decent deals on Cateye AMPP front lights recently, including the 900 for £40 at Halfords/Amazon.
@RicB I've still got my 12w Spot, 20w flood Lumicycle halogen lamps and because of Lumi's backwards compatibility they are still usable, although you barely get 90 mins runtime out of them on a modern battery built for LEDs. I popped them on my old Orange P7 a couple of years ago for a bit of nostalgia before I passed the bike on to someone else and it was hilarious. I think I hit every tree, rock and root on my local trail. Couldn't see a bloody thing. How did I survive with those lights? Yet I still remember being awestruck with their power when I upgraded from my previous lead acid powered 5w / 10w Cateye combo!
Progress, eh? Doesn't have take the fun out of life. 🙄 😉
I bought a Bontrager Ion Pro RT a year or so back, based on recommendations on here. I haven’t ridden at night since though, so it’s brand new and surplus if anyone wants it ? Feel free to mail me with sensible offers, for pics etc. iain dot clow at gmail dot com
Yet I still remember being awestruck with their power when I upgraded from my previous lead acid powered 5w / 10w Cateye combo!
Oh I remember them - that battery was the old school equivalent of unsprung mass...
No such thing as helmet lights in those days.
I've had several Moon lights including the Rigel and whilst they are great lights when they work, I've had some reliability issues. I had a comet-x completely fail (~ 6 months old) and my Rigel (~ 2 years) is now "unreliable" as it will turn it-self off randomly. Because of this I wouldn't get any more and am looking at Exposure
Absolutely spot on. I used to argue with IHN and the Disley crew that Moon lights were the way forward. My Moon 1200 Blah Blah was vastly superior in every way to any of my 4 Exposure front lights.... It had better battery life, much better beam pattern with the dual head, lighter, and much better switches. It was brilliant..... until it stopped working and Moon CGAF.
I think Ive had some of my Exposures for 20 years or so and they still work mostly. When they stop working I send them back to USE and they (mostly) fix them.
The beam pattern is still wrong* the battery life on the head mounted ones is woeful, and the switches are a nightmare to work, but they generally do work.
So I bought a quad support cell from Smudge and use the Exposures. In the unlikely event I ever get fit again I'll buy some more Exposure.
* I know I'm in the minority here but still can't believe that none of the manufacturers apart from Moon realised that a decent beam spread on a headlight means fore and aft not side to side..
Edit to say that not all Exposures are created equal. The two Joysticks I have are excellent but the Axis and Equinox are not great. The Axis has rubbish beam pattern, the switch has never worked well and the tap function is a PITFA. THe Equinox is ok with a quad support cell but far too powerful for its battery size .
Again a +1 for exposure a i run a very old joystick on the helmet and then a Lumicycle explorer on the bars.
My both are well over 13 years old but still do my 2hr night ride fine.
Had great service from lumicycle over the years to for broken mount and a battery cable came losse. All done free i just paid postage. if you can find some secondhand you can always get new battery from mtb batteries.
Still happy with my Lupine Betty, 8 years old, just onto the second 95wh battery 😀
The outbound lights look good, but run times seem tight.
Another Exposure fan here. Had various Maxx-D/Joystick etc over the years. Upgraded to a outlet store Six Pack two years ago with 3800 lumens and honestly I can't see why I'd ever need any more. Other than USB charging, no reason to upgrade. My diablo is a few years old and battery life has always been an issue (I set mine to high/low on the switch and try to remember to turn it down unless I'm descending).
I've dropped on concrete and broken the lens (£12 to fix) and had the charging circuit replaced (Free) and a new battery last year (about £30 I think). Great service, good products, worth the money for me.
Decent battery life and ideally no seperate battery pack.
I'll be listing a lightly used hope r4+ set as soon as I get a replacement bolt for the mount. They do have a separate battery back, but it's really well thought out.
I have popped a brand new Bontrager Ion Pro RT onto the classifieds if any use for folks.
Ravemen lights get consisitenly good reviews, the PR2400 is a solid option and good priced (£110) from their ebay store with stacked discount codes.
I use one for winter road & 'gravel' riding and I have a maxx-d for MTB. The maxx-d is slightly brighter, slightly wider beam and a bit longer run times, but for the price differrence the Ravemen light is great.
Uses the ABM08 mount so reasonably priced spare mounts too which IMO work better than Expsore which can get a bit sticky over time. It has USB C charging and can function as a powerbank via it's USB A port. It also works with USBC pass though - ie. you can use an external power pack over USB C to power the light.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/405179461504
Anyone used an exposure race? I reckon it’s likely enough light for me - have been fine with the Halfords light and a joystick on my helmet for the past few years.
I’m very curious about outbound lighting. Any one have any experience?
Yes.
My mate had some, I borrowed them for a ride and was sold. Lovely beam pattern, really nice mounting system, easy buttons to press and good enough run time for me.
I had a work trip to the US so got them sent to a colleague over there and picked them up. Saved all the import costs, postage etc so they worked out very reasonable.
I got the fancier head light and the main bar light, can't remember the names.
They've been really really good. Run time is plenty for me - I night ride after work for a couple of hours, 3-4 at most. They do run off a powerbank to extend runtime if needed.
Slightly worrying that if I ever need support it would be expensive, but the price I paid compared to other similar performing lights it was a gamble I took.
My previous lights were
MTB Batteries - not bad, good for the cash
Exposure (had a few failures, and short run times)
Chili Tech Cree Capsule - nice self contained, not a great beam pattern
MagicShine
GloWorms (I had a terrible experience, as per above, with the guy vanishing, order taking months to arrive, then both lights failing a couple of times, battery pack failing, mounts failing, all felt very half baked and poor. I think they have improved)
AyUps long ago (brilliant, but way obsolete now)
So I've had a few - would highly recommend the Outbound, with support complications as a possible catch.
The Downtime podcast on Outbound is a good listen for general light geekery too : https://www.downtimepodcast.com/outbound-lighting/
The Outbound lights do look good but the helmet ones still look a bit underpowered and heavy
All-in-one lights are great for bars but I think helmet lights are best as a separate lightweight lamp unit,and a battery you can put in a jersey pocket or bag. Once you go beyond 2 leds and an 18650 battery it gets too heavy.
shame no one seems to be doing a two or three led, 2000lm ish head unit that’s compatible with magicshine batteries
I thought exactly the same, and don't like weight on my helmet. Always preferred a wired battery and a very powerful tight spot on the lid. Not any more.
Mounting them centrally and getting the balance right means I don't really notice it, but I do enjoy the lack of cable. I don't ride MTB in jerseys with pockets, or carry a bag.
As for power, the podcast dives into power in some good detail and my experience is the same - a really nice beam pattern highlights the trail without blowing out detail and leaving eyes struggling to see contrast.
I've had PBs at night with Outbound versus any other light, or even day time riding.
I'm still using a combination of Magic Shine lamps with original or MTB batteries battery, preferring separate units for the helmet light at least.
Looking at Exposure lights for potential eventual replacement, the bar mount always gives me the jeebies - looks a bit frail in the event of a crash. Anyone have crash experience either way - mount survived / trashed ?
Yep, me. 3rd year in now, been faultless. Currently got the Evo Downhill Package (Evo & Hangover), originally had the separate battery pack version, upgraded to Downhill.
I'm still using a combination of Magic Shine lamps with original or MTB batteries battery, preferring separate units for the helmet light at least.
Looking at Exposure lights for potential eventual replacement, the bar mount always gives me the jeebies - looks a bit frail in the event of a crash. Anyone have crash experience either way - mount survived / trashed ?
Well I threw mine roughly to the ground yesterday and it survived. Came up muddy but unbloodied! Often I forget to remove the six pack from the mount and happily drive home with it acting as a 60mph wind brake on the trailer. First time I've used lights for a while and my six pack/diablo combo is more than good enough even being a few years old.
The diablo is sometimes a bit sulky and turns itself off. It's been fixed for free but still causes occasional moment of hilarity / terror as it goes into flash mode just when I need to see where i'm going. Not sure that justifies a new one even with the STW discount.
I used my Axis at the tail end of Fridays ride so assumed it would be ok on Tuesday but it wouldn't even turn on.
The Outbound does look a well thought out piece of kit and they are available on eBay without huge import and shipping fees.
Just listened to the podcast linked above- very interesting stuff. I’m more tempted by one of their helmet lights after listening to the owner; might see what I’ll get for my Gloworm X2 setup on the classifieds (shameful stealth ad I know!)
Just for interest I’ve ordered some heat resistant yellow acetate sheet to add a bit of a yellow tint to the lights and see what it’s like- harking back to the Lumi halogen days!
Re Exposure mounts, I’ve broken one in 17 years and that was from overtightening when the pivot pin was a bit rusty. They’ve changed the design since then and beefed it up. I also prefer a few layers of gorilla tape on the bar as I find that grippier than the shims you get with the light
A friend broke his Exposure mount by inadvertently picking up his e-bike with the light instead of handlebar.
What the mounts do is hold the light very securely and guarantee it’s pointing in exactly the right orientation for every ride.
I don't ride MTB in jerseys with pockets, or carry a bag.
i put my remote helmet light battery in my trouser pocket?
i would prefer no cable but weight V runtime is the issue for helmet lights. The single LED Chilli capsule was light and has a lovely beam spread/pattern but runtimes are too short. (the 2 led version isnt as good). I`ve gone to a cable for the runtime and less faff/worry.
i prefer a good helmet light and a lower power / nice spread bar light.
As an aside. I have one of the Halfords bar lights. I used to use a hope bar mount adaptor for it which was great. But now I'm running 35mm bars and the hope clamp won't fit around it. Does anyone have any recommendations for a suitable bar clamp?
Just ordered a Maxx-D mk17 (the brand new one) from Start Fitness on eBay for £355 with the current 20% off code (STYLISH20). £100 cheaper than from them direct
Can anyone running a Four4th Scortch share what the beam pattern is like? Ie tight spot vs floody
it seems to have the same spec as the Zenith but for half the price. And now comes with a switch instead of the tap-touch nonsense that won’t work with thick gloves
I've been using a Nitenumen X8 on the bars and a Lezyne Classic Drive on my helmet for almost 10 years now. Between the two I probably spent £130. They're more than enough for me riding singletrack in dark woods.
I can't seem to find Nitenumen as a seller anymore, but it looks like Lezyne do a few bar mount lights for around the £100 mark.
@RicB I would just contact four4th. I was asking them a load of questions when I bought my bar light (i bought the helmet one from Ebay and didn't know what model it was) and they are really good to talk to.
Chances are they will have pics etc.
I have an omg and holy moses and can't recommend them enough
The beam on my Scorch is not that tight - it’s a wider beam than a Diablo I used before and IMHO is just right for a helmet lamp - it needs a bit more flood if you want to use it on the bars though. My only criticism of it is the switch but the newer one solves that
Those Four4th lights do look good. I very nearly bought a Scorch but then spotted the OMG specs, which are impressive!
is there any real-world feedback on the green LEDs, in particular how they’d work with a white led (Maxx-D) bar light?
is there any real-world feedback on Four4th customer service too? Exposure customer service is fantastic but obviously built into the price. And their self-contained helmet lights seem too pricey for the performance
Outbound and Full On Lighting look great but I’m not inclined to import anything from across the Atlantic at rhe moment as everything seems a bit risky wrt tariffs and potential future support
I haven't got the green led's. When I asked for the pair to my helmet light they just matched the colour. i assume there was a reason for that. Worth reaching out, they were very quick for me. Bear in mind, my helmet light is at least 4 years old and has been flawless and the new one is just over a year. I don't think you will have issues