[Closed] What light compliant steel frame for all day rides to 140-150mm

For that length of fork and to be CEN compliant, I'd be suprised if it was under 5lbs.

I'd suggest you're looking at aluminium or carbon.

The black and white days of Alu being "stiff" and steel being "springy" are gone.

My Alu Chumba is lighter and springier than the p7 it replaced. The Pace 305 before that was springy too (but made of cheese).

The CEN p7 wasnt half as nice as the previous ones. Far too lardy and dead.

How heavy is a BFe ? I own one but I don't know/care, I can recommend how it rides though.

Dialled have an offer on their Reynolds 853's Prince Albert Classic's

My Bfe is spot on 5lb.

Buy a fork travel reducer/spacer and open up a whole world of 100/120mm frames.
(Sanderson btw 😉 )
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[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/matt_outandabout/7824034278/ ]Comrie Croft pump jump track[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/matt_outandabout/ ]matt_outandabout[/url], on Flickr

My Bfe is spot on 5lb.

Weighed on bathroom scales though?

What mk/size?

[i]Has to be lighter than 5lb[/i]

Why? What difference to your life would a 27lb bike be over a 28lb bike, bearing in mind that's the difference of not brimming your camelback bladder?

"Most" HT that will handle that length fork are there or thereabouts, weight-wise, material makes little or no difference, chances are that if it was designed in the last few years it will be "low/slack/long"

Which pretty much just leaves colour....

I don't think a bike capable of handling 140-150mm forks will be built with low weight and compliance in mind, will it?! Big tyres FTW 🙂

Has to be lighter than 5lb

Why? What difference to your life would a 27lb bike be over a 28lb bike, bearing in mind that's the difference of not brimming your camelback bladder?

"Most" HT that will handle that length fork are there or thereabouts, weight-wise, material makes little or no difference, chances are that if it was designed in the last few years it will be "low/slack/long"

Cynical **** but good points.

Why does it matter how heavy a frame is when you are the same sort of weight as me !i.e FAT

Surley something under 5lbs is going to twist and bend and feel horrible if you are over a certain weight.

Ah jesus, just noticed this is a Hora frame thread.

Anyway for the record mine is a small, latest Bfe.

Ah jesus, just noticed this is a Hora frame thread.

Aren't all 'what frame' threads Hora's?

Ah shar-raap 😆 if we were ladies we'd have a thousand handbags, we are just the male equivalent of ladies

just noticed this is a Hora frame thread.

Stanton slackline?

we are just the male equivalent of ladies

Please can this be entered into the [I]Hora-saurus[/I]?

Thing is how much is down to actual "compliance" in a frame and how much is down to this common belief that steel is always springyer and magic and how much is down to people stuffing longer travel forks and larger volume tyres on steel framed bikes?

I've read quite varied opinions on STW of the ride of a steel 456, I'm pretty sure those that find it a "harsh collection of gas pipes" are probably just running narrower tyres at higher pressures than those who find it "Compliant"...

If you're going to be using a 2.3"+ rear tyre then do perhaps consider using a "Harsh" riding Aluminium frame and save a pound or so...
Chameleon perhaps?

Totally disagree, Steel 456 feels dead/numb on the rear.

Its part-subjective but I also found the Sandersons to be springy at any psi. I think thats key- a good frame will shine through with wall-thickness, welds, length of material/oval/round profile choice/where etc in the right place and a bad frame needs 'assistance' from tyre psi etc to [b]mask[/b] its harshness.

Dunno why you'd talk yourself out of a Soul. It's exactly what you want.

Dunno why you'd talk yourself out of a Soul. It's exactly what you want.

Hmm maybe this

I know one answer is Cotic Soul but what other answers to the question could there be?

should read

I know [s]one[/s] the answer is Cotic Soul but what other answers to the question could there be?

C456. No, wait...

Speaking of weight... <badoom-tish> a half pound difference in weight in a frame is bugger all, but, extra weight means extra metal somewhere and extra metal generally means thicker tubes and thicker tubes means Less Steel Is Real Bullshit. The weight difference between my old BFe and my Soul wasn't that much, nothing to worry about but the difference in ride (with identical kit) was noticable.

Harsh isn't the right word for most heftier steel frames IMO, nor is springy really the right word for lighter ones. Waggy-tailedness, is what it's all about. IMO it's the only bike characteristic that really matters 😉

Sanderson, On-One, Singular etc etc.....

For me- stick a water bottle on your downtube filled with water, then remove, the difference is noticeable enough. Yes thats crude- the weight is allover however you can feel it- it just feels 'nippier' - no?

I'd take any statement that included this phrase with a pinch of salt though.

...Bikeradar said...

I'm not saying the 456 is a brilliant springy, comfy frame,
simply that build and tyre pressure can affect the ride almost as much as making the frame out of fancy doodle magic metal, rather than pig iron...

If your set on steel why not try a Stanton?
I've seen Dialed PA's run with 140mm forks too, they're not too heavy are they?

Nice one on EBay too (not mine)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140985246111&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

I've often wondered if the "ooh my HT frame feels harsh" sensation is directly related to the lard-arsedness of the rider....... 😉

Sanderson claim their Blitz ( AM Long Travel frame ) weighs 4.6lbs in 18inch size...I find that hard to believe though..

On the subject weight, low CoG etc. 99% of riders prefer the advantages of a Dropper-post off-set against the additional weight of 1lb that high up on the bike...so Hora where do you want this thread to go....

......A 3lb Steel LT HT?

Sanderson claim their Blitz ( AM Long Travel frame ) weighs 4.6lbs in 18inch size...I find that hard to believe though..

A shop once weighed one for me- it was over 6lb's.

If Sanderson added side welds to the Life 8) ....come on!

Ever thought of a Soul? 😉

There is a reason why people like them

If it helps, my current gen BFe in 16" was approximately 5.1920623 lbs on proper scales 😉

I really need to have a spin on a Soul but I'd still go for a size down (medium). [b]I'm not a Bfe-type rider if I'm honest[/b]. However the numerous 'its 120mm best for Soul' posts do put me off a wee bit as I do use almost all the travel on my 140-150mm forks alot- I like an active front-end/like to ride over the bars/front end.

[i]I can't afford a Ti frame. [/i]

If you stopped swapping frames all the bloody time, you could've done!

And the answer is a 456Ti, as you'll never get a steel frame under 5 lbs rated for a 140-150mm fork in your size.

recently changed from a 100mm Reba forked Rock Lobster to a 120mm XFusion forked Soul. The Soul is a tad heavier but a lot more capable and comfy

I dont quite get why, if Hora is such an expert in arcane frame dynamics, he has to ask such questions repeatedly on bike forums? I am surprised he is not the head designer for Specialized by now frankly...

not 5lb but Prince Albert..............

continues reading with intrest.............

surely you would be better of with a
650b

or one of those

29er frames

Have you tried one yet?
More complaint due to big wheels, really comfortable, fast and slow in all the right places, stable........go on you know you want too

oh but be careful
head angle will not be slack enough
frame will be too harsh, not light enough
headtube too low, short long or middling
tyres will be wrong
maybe too heavy/light
maybe not enough reviews for you to choose wisely
limited fork choice

but you can sell it a good price and lose nowt on what you paid 😉

Just one thing to add...

DIBS! 🙂

[url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/soul-as-only-mtb ]Soul suits a lots of people ![/url]

hora - Member
I really need to have a spin on a Soul but I'd still go for a size down (medium). I'm not a Bfe-type rider if I'm honest. However the numerous 'its 120mm best for Soul' posts do put me off a wee bit as I do use almost all the travel on my 140-150mm forks alot- I like an active front-end/like to ride over the bars/front end.

I'm a big lad (~16st)on 140mm Revs on a Soul and I love it. Mate just bought one and put 140mm Sektors on it, and he loves it too.

120mm is a personal preference, loads of people riding them slacker and loving it. 20mm is a tiny difference - choosing an external lower headset could raise the front end 10-12mm. A 140mm fork with an internal headset leaves you within a hair's breadth of the 120 geometry with an external one.

@hora I'm not a Bfe type rider either but frame cost £300 on sale not £480 (Soul) and frame will handle the longer travel forks. It also came in a nice blue colour, the new ones come in a very nice green. Let's face it I care more about the colour than the weight.

. I'm not a Bfe-type rider if I'm honest.... ...I do use almost all the travel on my 140-150mm forks alot...

Dunno, regularly ploughing your way through 6" of fork travel sounds quite BFe-esq'...

I fear this next Hora build will be a bit of a contradiction with wheels...

You're basically after a lightweight sledgehammer - correct?

you've started with the fork travel and worked back to wanting a lightweight Steel frame to make the bike more Agile / Nimble?

Perhaps Focus less on frame material to start with, and more on geometry/layout, what parts you're going to bolt on to it, and of course what you're going to use it for...

General mixed trail riding? trundle up - blat down type stuff?
Clearly frame mass is on your mind is this due to climbing or handling or a bit of both?

Have you considered that a shorter (possibly lighter) fork may well help that nimble handling feeling you say your after, a 6" forked HT is unlikely to be described as flicky or nimble, but that's precisely why you've said you want a lighter frame... [/Shrug]

Hora did you not have an alpine with 150mm travel?

I love my Soul but I'd probably buy a BFe nowadays. I'm not some send it large DHer or DJer but I enjoy having my wheels off the ground and it's all about the descents, drops, jumps and corners for me. The BFe is now only 0.7lbs heavier than the Soul size for size and is obviously way less rigid at the back than the original version with the fat stays. And you get ISCG tabs and a 44mm headtube so you can use all sorts of forks and anglesets.

I use 140mm forks on my Soul and there's no way you'd persuade me to use shorter ones for my riding, absolutely no chance. Handles beautifully like that.

my medium Prince Albert Classic (new 853 one) weighed 2043g on the kitchen scales (5kg max on the scales, so I'd imagine that's going to be pretty accurate) = a hair over 4.5lbs.

Mike recommended 100-140mm travel. I've got 120-150 Revs until I find a way of spacing them down. Tend to ride 120 for most things, 150 for blatting down. Works well enough to keep a smile on my face.

My c456 is more compliant than my Soul ever was. And the frame is 1.5 lbs lighter.

I rode my Soul for about 5 years as my only bike including trips to Spain & the Alps. Fantastic frame. Did consider selling it once but I've decided to keep it just for mementos sake - might build it up again one day though.

But I do prefer the handling and feel of my c456.

[i]I can't afford a Ti frame.
[/i]

Which is a shame as what you're describing is pretty much a hardball ti - Ragley or maybe 456 Ti Evo, which costs 300 quid more than a Soul, which is a fair bit, but equally not that much when new full suspension frames are going for £1200 plus.

Kinesis Decade Virsa - the mk 2 frame.

I'm very happy with the MK2 Piglet I recently built up.
Found it to handle as well as if not better than the C456 it replaced yet definitely more comfortable.
The finish on the current Ragley frames is nicer than previous ones too and with ISCG05, 44mm headtube and excellent mud clearance make a very versatile frame and at 300 notes good value too in comparison to others mentioned.
I've not bothered to weigh the bike or the frame when building but I can weigh one tomorrow if your interested.

[i]You're basically after a lightweight sledgehammer - correct? [/i]

To give hora a bit of credit, I know what he means. I use a Chameleon with 140mm thors, and as much strong/lightweight kit as I can afford and it's a rocket ship, and it'd be even more of a rocket ship if it was a few pounds lighter. I was looking at (and rode a couple of ) FS: a Blur and a Lapeierre thing that the LBS recommended; both weren't nearly as much fun as my Cham and the French thing was frankly disengaging.

I'd like a Carbon Cham but Santa Cruz won't make one. (I've asked)

Bastards, they actually don't want me to have fun... 👿

Pipedream Scion 853?
Have one for sale if you're interested? (...cheeky)

A lighter medium old Chameleon?

Twistier/more fun than anything on two wheels FACT

Do the right thing....get a Ragley! Either Piglet or Blue Pig flavours. I ride the latter and it's awesome.

Observing this with interest.

"Strong, light, cheap. Pick any two"

Springs to mind 😉

@ anotherstan...rated for 90 - 130mm forks. Shame! 😀

The mk2 steel slackline is due out soon with 31.6mm seat tube and 44mm headtube so opens up the options on the fork and dropper post front. I've got a ti slackline and 2 rides in I can confirm the geometry to be pretty damn spot on with a fox 36 spaced down to 140mm (same a-c as a 150mm 32 or 34 I believe), mine had a baptism of fire at Gawton on Sunday then a xc ride on the coast on some nice singletrack this morning, so far so very good 🙂

What about a Genesis Alptitude if you can find one, they were rated to 160mm IIRC and were only a shade over the 5lb mark.

Anyone know what the BB drop on a Slackline is? BB height is such a random measurement as it varies with tyre size.

No offence meant on the Alpine but I found it tall/leaned fwd feeling angles? For me. Plus it comes alive for supa-fast riding. That aint me 😆 8)

Oh dear lord..............as in my last post
29er.
Or
650
B
You tried either.......whole new world out there of not quite correct for you frames........
Or
Are you overbiked?

Try something that is designed for you not a marketing dream.....

Oh I do enjoy a Hora "What Frame?" thread. 😉

Vondally you contradicted yourself in one post seeing how haymarket-type mags are the ones pushing the new wheelsizes on us.

No ta. I've got decent 26er wheels, tyres etc.

I dont follow advertising. If I did I'd be wearing a Urge helmet etc etc

LOL hora.....irony lost in translation there
Me I like my 29er and my yeti 7 both are comprises t
Choose a bike for your riding and enjoyment, be comfortable with a compromise
Alpine to tall and forward to you me scared me to death but loved it alas wrecked my neck and back
Santa cruz blur...you did not like that me enjoyed it but pastures new called aka yeti asr7
Just be honest with what you need...be patient as well
Enjoy the new frame....Do tell us what you get

Ps love my urge enduring doesn't hurt mt prolapsed disc in my neck......that gawd for marketing

[quote=Coyote ]Oh I do enjoy a Hora "What Frame?" thread.
I'm sure STW towers does too.

I dont follow advertising. If I did I'd be wearing a Urge helmet etc etc

We will pay to see you attempt this.

BWD If we are 'stretching' I wonder how much progressive is asking for Brodie ti holeshots

[url= http://kingdombike.co.uk/en/titanium_bike/brigante ]Customisable Ti goodness from Kingdom[/url]... at a price though 8)

If you are stretching then maybe throw Chromag into the fray? Just wondering how i can squeeze a Dekerf welded Surface past the other half......

Hora,
You looked in the classifieds?
There's someone selling a Ti456 for £500.

Soul or similar plus adjustable forks.
Nimble and 150 mom forks isn't happening.

If you are stretching then maybe throw Chromag into the fray?

Oooo..
http://www.chromagbikes.com/frames/kamui

If you can't afford Ti, you can't afford a Chromag...... 😉

Anyway, you've already looked...

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/chromag-kamui-any-owners

Maybe check out the production privee shan. If you're after a medium then it's just over 5lb and its specifically designed for 150-160mm.

I tried one last month and its convinced me to get rid of my soul, my new shan arrives in June

[i] If you're after a medium then it's just over 5lb [/i]

He's over 6 foot and looking for all-day comfort - the last thing he needs is another frame that is too small/short.

b r my back doesn't like long stretched out to bars feel. I need to be sat more up right. The all day comfort comes from not lugging a heavy bike around and being hit hard up the back by a stiff rear end (oo-eerr)

I tried one last month

The stylings abit 'erm, unusual for me'- but it looks a good shape.

Lower the fork and you'll open up a wider range of frames. Plus it'll just ride better with the fork at a proper height anyway.

Hora,

Tried it with a guy from http://zulubikes.co.uk/ - only place you can get it, unless you fancy going to France!

I may come to regret this, but do you want to try my P7? Its a medium so its perfect/too small for you. Its running 140 up front. Heavier than some, but be honest. if you're that bothered about weight, then lay off the pies

And you've had a Sanderson Life. I seem to recall it didn't make the end of its second week. Had you forgotten? 😉

[img] [/img]

Binners- tried one on a ride, swapped off a Chameleon to a P7. The Chameleon was better.

Thats not a fair comparison though. The Chameleon is a better bike for certain things. But about as compliant as a rail bridge. You can't compare the two. I've had my P7 for 18 months, and its eclipsed the Chameleon as my favourite hardtail. It really is a perfect do-it-all, all day bike!

A chameleon after a full day in the saddle will leave you feeling live you've had some kind of Rohypnol and GBH fuelled experience after Cruz 101. Actually.... is that what you're really after?

[img] [/img]

some kind of Rohypnol and GBH fuelled experience after Cruz 101. Actually.... is that what you're really after?

😆

A chameleon after a full day in the saddle will leave you feeling live you've had some kind of Rohypnol and GBH fuelled experience after Cruz 101. Actually.... is that what you're really after?

The equivalent of a sex-saddle in a gay sauna? 😆