[Closed] What is the Ultimate road race HPV?

HPV? Google brings up AIDS stories....

Human Powered Vehicle, usually some sort of faired recumbent.

I guess they must be a lot faster on the descents which would be the worrying bit.

Didn't Guy Martin do a flying one? In which case, take off and glide your way to the top of the climbs?

Haha, just wondered if recumbents or full fairings would be capable of jostling in a peleton through twisty mountain stages of wether they would just stick to the basic upright shape they have already??

Isn't there is a RAAM event for HPVs.

I'd say that's pretty hardcore: trying to stay awake for 3000 miles in a sweaty fibreglass tub, while Billy Bob and Chuck try buzzing you with their pickups...

I doubt you'd get peletons in quite the same way and the better aerodynamics would favour solo breakaways more than upright bikes?

Or perhaps they would limit numbers to teams of two like motorsport.

You could have pods that couple together for the long flat stages.

TBH I'd prefer to see unlimited bike options per team, you'd take a different approach for hilly stages vs flat ones

I’d read somewhere that recumbents were originally developed for the tif. Don’t know if it’s true or not. I know on the flat a full faring recumbent is bloody fast as I have tried to follow one ridden by a local rider and managed about a kilometre before I blew up (he was doing between 50-60kmh), but are they any good in the mountains? Can’t imagine they would be.

In answer to the original question, For (closed) Road Racing of HPVs as a single class, it would make most sense for it to be open 3 wheelers (IMO), you'd almost certainly have to have about 1/3rd the size of field relative to the equivalent "Traditional" bicycle race as they simply couldn't run in such close proximity.

Fared Two wheelers are fast in a straight line on the flat, but a peloton of them descending alpine switchbacks at speed would be comically deadly. Open 3 wheelers could do that sort of thing relatively safely, chop along on the flat and climb (with appropriate gearing)...

Most HPV racing that I'm aware of (not involved in it though) tends to be done on closed circuits, either as heats, or endurance type racing...

I have a recumbent (it was part of my attempt to get riding with pre-op funky hip). Riding uphill is harder than on a 'bent than a safety (standard upright diamond frame). Riding up the sort of hills currently ridden on in the tour would be hellish. I suspect the fastest bike over the whole of a typical tour route might still be a TT bike, maybe with a bit of fairing.

Like F1 being faster does not necessarily make it better to watch which at the end of the day is pretty much the only reason professional sport exists. Current bikes where group riding and teamwork play a bigger part is probably a much better spectacle.

I know on the flat a full faring recumbent is bloody fast as I have tried to follow one ridden by a local rider and managed about a kilometre before I blew up (he was doing between 50-60kmh)

I went to a shop in Germany once and the owner was fitting a 500W motor into one of those.

Ideal for mountain stages might be one of those fully faired pods but with wings that pop out when you pull a lever.  You'd lose time on the climb but make up loads on the descent.

Basically I'm thinking of Wacky Races.

A big multiday road race for HPVs (Involving variable terrain) might be better more as a self supported Endurance thing than a balls-out stage race with support vehicles and team busses.

And yes watching them inch up their way a col in some ridiculously low gear wouldn't be tremendously entertaining, but seeing them barrel down the other side would...

And yes watching them inch up their way a col in some ridiculously low gear wouldn’t be tremendously entertaining,

Feels slow Vs actually slow though? I imagine they're harder to accelerate/sprint without the benefit of bodyweight, but uphill it would be just another steady state with a few kg's of fairing (and I'd bet given some R&D $$$ a light monocoque seat/fairing/frame combo could be built.

33lbs apparently for the [url= https://www.lightningbikes.com/f40/index.html ]batshit mental Lightning F40[/url].

I'd quite like to try one, just for a laugh. Wonder if the bloke they talk about in Angmering still has his, that's just down the road...

I thought they were also slower because of the position - you can't get out of the saddle, so maximum power is limited. They all seem to come with very low bottom gears which suggests as much.

From my perspective there are three issues with a recumbent uphill. Firstly they are heavier and will always be heavier than than an equivalent technology safety. Secondly you can't vary your riding style to the same extent as you can on a safety. You can't get out of the saddle to change muscle groups. Thirdly an hpv with a faring would get bloody hot on a long slow climb - your very own human sized greenhouse.

On extreme hills where on a standard bike you are out of the saddle wrenching on your bars even in your lowest gear and tacking up the road they really are virtually impossible; or at least two wheelers are. You have to use a super low gear and try and spin but with (generally) smaller wheels so less centrifugal force and no ability to move your weight around to balance and less manoeuvrability to tack you very quickly reach a stall speed and fall over. 3 wheel versions are easier though.

Wonder who would win the stages though, would the better climbing compensate for the lower speeds on the downs and flats?

And... If a safety bicycle was better, what kind of geometry would it be? Guessing nobody really enjoys perching in the end of a pointy saddle

I have just recently bought an ICE Adventure recumbent trike.

Have been suffering with my arthritis in my hip and back for a while, and an upright bike seems to make this worse.

Its a very different type of riding, more relaxed and comfortable. Yes, it is slower uphill but you just need to settle into a lower gear and keep spinning.

Motorists give you loads of space, feels much safer - which is one of the usual comments I get, it must be dangerous. In reality it is much safer than an upright.

A fairing would make it pretty hot in the cabin, loads of fun though, and you get to use a slightly different muscle set as well.

Has rekindled my enjoyment, still tired after a ride, but I don’t have the same aching that I had in my back, hip, leg and arms.

Motorists give you loads of space, feels much safer – which is one of the usual comments I get, it must be dangerous. In reality it is much safer than an upright.

Bit of a thread derail but I'm still not convinced that this is the case.  I accept that more motorists see you overall.  But there will always be some that don't.  If someone hits you at low speed in a car, you can be bumped out of the way or end up on the bonnet.  If they don't see you on a low down trike, you are going under the wheels.

Then there are higher up vehicles like vans to worry about too, never mind lorries.  The one time I made contact with a car on my bike the car turned left across me.  I got knocked sideways, if I'd fallen I would have rolled onto the pavement.  If I'd been low down on a recumbent I might've ended up under the car.

Another time, leaving a roundabout a car squeezed me towards the kerb as he avoided the pedestrian island.  Dread to think what would have happened to me if I'd been on a trike.  You won't get me on one of those things on the road, despite the fact I love the idea.

A velomobile won TABR this year.

Not only that, but I think the pilot was one of the first to the high point of the race - he didn't just claw back a deficit on the flat.

So the disadvantage when climbing is clearly not that pronounced.

Fared Two wheelers are fast in a straight line on the flat, but a peloton of them descending alpine switchbacks at speed would be comically deadly.

Yep, bunch cornering on recumbents is almost impossible, the long wheelbase makes them difficult to manoeuvre on anything tight and technical. Combine that with lots of other idiots trying the same thing and everyone will be off although on the plus side it's not very far to fall. 😉

A velomobile won TABR this year.

Not only that, but I think the pilot was one of the first to the high point of the race – he didn’t just claw back a deficit on the flat.

So the disadvantage when climbing is clearly not that pronounced.

Doesn't that run west-east across the US? Ie you'd reach the high point (presumbly the Rockeies) about 1/3 of the way through the race, having just come through huge swathes of prairie land where I imagine they're just about perfect.

Unless I'm mistaken it's non-drafting too, so of course you're at a huge advantage versus a regular bike. Versus 200 regular bikes in a bunch? Less so.

A velomobile won TABR this year.

Not only that, but I think the pilot was one of the first to the high point of the race – he didn’t just claw back a deficit on the flat.

So the disadvantage when climbing is clearly not that pronounced.

Whilst the Trans am is a massive, almost unimaginable, physical challenge the gradients on the route are very placid in comparison to TdF style ascents. Negligible amounts over 3%.

https://transambikerace.com/resources/