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for a middle aged mincer? I'm thinking about replacing my 2016 Nicolai Ion but I'm going around in circles until I disappear up my own arse 😀. I want something that will flatter my limited talent and give me confidence without being a massive travel, leaden enduro bike that will suck all the fun out at my modest speeds.
I think I want something 150-160mm travel out front maybe 140-150mm in the rear. Mullet or 29 both fine so I suppose the ability to switch could be a bonus.
What can you suggest to make my decision even harder?
“I'm thinking about replacing my 2016 Nicolai Ion”
Is that the same as a Geometron?
Yes, exactly the same as back when they were all 27.5
And I should add it is a good bike even nine years later. What I'd like to improve is the weight, wheel size and rear tyre clearance and a little shorter reach than 480mm (which was the smallest size they made at the time!)
My lad certainly enjoys the place on his Commencal Meta SX
My lad certainly enjoys the place on his Commencal Meta SX
Maybe a bit more bike than I'm after, I suspect your lad is younger and faster than me. I am 56 and a bit chicken (Hot Stepper is amongst my favourite BPW trails though)
The way bikes have gone I doubt you’ll be able to save much weight, but I don’t think it matters, especially for uplifts.
Do you like the rest of the geometry and the suspension feel?
Megatower
Do you like the rest of the geometry and the suspension feel?
It's a bit long really but all good otherwise, the low and slack bits with a steep seat angle are all good. Horst link works for me but I'm open to other systems.
Megatower
Yes, but I'd maybe go more for the Bronson. A sound suggestion
but I don’t think it matters, especially for uplifts.
I sort of agree but all else being equal lighter would be nicer. FoD especially I'm only sometimes uplifted
My Gen6 Fuel ex8 must be somewhere there too. I've had it at Dyfi and loved it, FoD is it's bread and butter, slack head angle but neutral handling, it's a very easy bike to ride.
It helps that they can be bought for 1/2 price of a Bronson, maybe eve less.
Probably a bit heavier though.
Maybe a bit more bike than I'm after, I suspect your lad is younger and faster than me.
Yeah, I had a go on that bike and it wasn’t happy unless you were really tanking! He is pretty quick. 😊
Last time I was there I used one of the hire Trek Slashes.. It surprisingly seemed just too … er, mild. Only very slightly better than my Instinct.. so I’d say something beefier than that.
Gen6 Fuel ex8
Am I wrong to discount it because an Orbea has put me off pivots around the axle?
Gen6 Fuel ex8
Am I wrong to discount it because an Orbea has put me off pivots around the axle?
I can't honestly fault it, it does everything nicely. It's got UDH and shares the same rear setup as my Session which is pretty simplistic. In frame storage is nice, as is non knockblock headset. The cable routing internally is fully sleeved..
Can't think of a bad thing to say about it.
140-160mm trail bike is best for all of those. Have ridden my scout and a dh there and the dh is totally unnecessary and actually a bit shite on a lot of the trails.
That said the scout was awesome at antur too.
What is that @prettygreenparrot , an AM.150? I am sort of tempted by an S.150 for less money, less bearings and more seat post insertion. Just a little worried about future spares availability from a small manufacturer. Nice to buy UK made though and reviews are good (but I'm never sure how much personal bias goes into reviews). Companies like Trek, Santa Cruz, Specialized I have some maybe ill placed faith in them being around and having spares for a good few years
Don't bother answering that, I just stalked your posting history. It is in fact called an A.150 😀
Bird Aeris AM seems to tick a lot of those boxes.
Ibis Ripmo?
FWIW I absolutely agree that 160/150 is the sweet spot for that sort of riding.
Bird Aeris AM seems to tick a lot of those boxes.
Second that. Mine's great. Very capable when you need it, feels perky enough uphill / just travelling along.
I bloody love my Ripmo AF for exactly that sort of riding. It's like an excitable puppy of a bike. Cascade link gave it even more pop. A Ripmo carbon is definitely on my list if things I'd like to try.
They're ****ing ugly though, which took me a long time to get past before buying one.
Bird Aeris AM seems to tick a lot of those boxes.
Second that. Mine's great. Very capable when you need it, feels perky enough uphill / just travelling along.
Aeris AM is a good suggestion but out of stock in medium and no indication there will be more
Ripmo is another good shout thanks
They're ****ing ugly though
I think the latest version looks ok
Gen6 Fuel ex8
Am I wrong to discount it because an Orbea has put me off pivots around the axle?
Why does that put you off? Trek & Orbea use a similar suspension platform (along with Devinci & their Split Pivot system) & it’s generally a well mannered platform & works well under braking.
The Fuel EX Gen6 isn’t a bad bike, but it’s let down by it’s ridiculously low stack height, which massively eats into the reach when you have to raise the bars up to a normal height & it’s not got size specific chainstays, which is a let down on the larger sizes.
As a FoD local I’d say an ebike is the best choice, especially considering the proximity to all of S.Wales off piste valley riding. (Not bothered by BPW, it’s not my bag).
Why does that put you off?
It's not the suspension characteristics, on the Orbea the drive side hardware is a little on the fragile side. Aftermarket metal versions of the part are maybe a solution but do I need parts that are of a questionable design if I can avoid them?
The Fuel EX Gen6 isn’t a bad bike, but it’s let down by it’s ridiculously low stack height, which massively eats into the reach when you have to raise the bars up to a normal height & it’s not got size specific chainstays, which is a let down on the larger sizes.
Low stack height is not what I'm looking for but at 5'8" the chain stay length is unlikely to be short for me
As a FoD local I’d say an ebike is the best choice,
Yes and I have one. But I still love riding a regular bike more 🤷♂️
@Rubber_Buccaneer it is indeed an A150. Good stalking!
ibis ripmo v2 and SC Hightower we’re on my list. When I tested the A150 it just felt great so I didn’t test the other two. I’ve ridden friend’s ibis ripmo v1 and it was great. Idk, at that level I don’t think you can get a bad bike. I just figured that a local bike for local people, more or less, was nicer.
S150. Nice call. I almost went S-series but I like symmetry and favored 29” both ends and figured ‘whatever’ on price. Hey, a decade since my last FS 🙂
I’d wondered about an A130 but figured that more is usually better. And with my last bike being 140R/150F this seemed a modest step up. IRL the travel feels so much more!
I was drawn into considering an Atherton after seeing an S170 and whatever A-series bikes they had at Bespoked 2024. They looked very neat. Much nicer IRL than the pictures I’d seen.
+1 for the seatpost insertion. I’m sure some folks are spot on for the insertion the A series offers. The folks at Atherton have been great and I’m swapping out the Fox Transfer for a One-Up to get ~10mm more insertion (ooh er) to drop the extended height just a touch.
Have good fun choosing. But I’d heartily recommend testing an Atherton if you’re curious.
Starling Twist or Murmur would be fun. May not be lighter, though.
I see the charm of the Starling bikes but for this application I'm unlikely to go single pivot especially one without a linkage. I've ridden a lot of suspension designs over the years and will overlook many shortcomings just because something takes my fancy but this time only URT is lower down the list
I've ridden a lot of suspension designs over the years and will overlook many shortcomings just because something takes my fancy but this time only URT is lower down the list
That’s understandable. If you get the opportunity to try one, I’d recommend it.
My Airdrop Edit MX is massively more fun to ride on bikeparks and man made trails than my Geometron ever was.
I didn't build it light but it's still fine for spinning up fire roads and similar.
If I cared about weight I'd look for a Bronson/Nomad but the price would be silly.
The other bike that fits your criteria is the old model Stumpjumper Evo, which is what I’ve got. A great bike and super versatile with all the geometry adjust, just make sure they include the alternate headset cups if you buy one second hand.
Forbidden Druid would suit you very well. Check the reviews.
My other bike is a Druid V2. It's a proper weapon and the glowing reviews are accurate and justified.
But, it's much better suited to trails and enduro stuff than bikeparky jump trails.
The Edit is so much better for slapping berms and hitting jumps.
I'm planning to take the Druid to BPW at some point but I haven't yet.
Second the Airdrop Edit Mx. Lovely lines as well as a great bike. It looks fast just leaning against a fence.
It's getting really hard to buy a bad bike these days so I'm giving more focus to pretty bikes now. For that reading, also consider the Transition bikes. That straight line from rear mech to head tube always makes for a nice bike.
Third the Airdrop.
I’ve never not had fun at BPW, on 140, 160 & 180mm travel bikes.
Full DH bike next.
Going to BPW on a DH bike is what made me sell my last DH bike.
Transition Spire/Sentinel?
I was coming to suggest the Patrol or Sentinel based on how lovely the rear suss is on my Spur. They're certainly on my list to replace the Stage 5.
Saying that, there are some ace deals about on the Orange Stage 6/6evo/7 and they tick plenty of boxes.
Dammit there are so many good options. The Edit MX really appeals with its value, simple maintenance and it looks like it could fall off an uplift trailer, bounce a couple of times and only need dusting off. I'm thinking too much travel for me but maybe...
The Atherton S.150 is the one I keep looking at. The few reviews I've found suggest it works well and it calls to my stupid love of something a bit different. Head says I should go for something mainstream for once but it's only the construction that is different, the actual mechanics are a tried and tested years old system
I’ve never not had fun at BPW, on 140, 160 & 180mm travel bikes.
Full DH bike next.
If I only had a hardtail I'd take that and still have fun, I just wouldn't have the most fun possible in my opinion.
Would love a go on a DH bike just to know what it's like but I wouldn't own one even if they were giving them away as I don't have the space for it to collect dust 😀
...it looks like it could fall off an uplift trailer, bounce a couple of times and only need dusting off.
Haven't tried that with the Edit yet but Privateer a 141 can. Ask me how I know.
DH bikes are undeniably awesome but I can't justify one. There's almost nowhere in the UK that needs one. I'd only buy one again if I lived in the Alps or somewhere similar.
I'm tempted to rent a V10 in Morzine this year just for the experience.
“My Airdrop Edit MX is massively more fun to ride on bikeparks and man made trails than my Geometron ever was.”
This is some useful advice!
One thing I’ve figured out is that I prefer the more natural trails at BPW (and most other places too) and I’m not a big jumper, nor am I great at ripping berms. So I feel something like a Starling with its more compliant frame and linear suspension would suit me better than something stiffer and more progressive.
I don’t have enough time to go fun places so I shall stick with my Moxie and Levo, but I’d try figure out what you find fun about BPW and FoD etc and then let that guide your choice.
An Atherton S150 does look v appealing though!
Head says I should go for something mainstream for once
I tried to do that when I bought my last bike as the Specialized Epic ticked all my boxes but couldn't bring myself to in the end. Just didn't light the fire like the smaller players do for some reason?
I still rate my V2 Druid as one of, if not the best riding bikes I’ve had. However it was on its 3rd rear end when I sold it after 15 months, so I’d struggle to recommend one.
Whatever bike you like + LOTS OF TYRE. I sold the dh bike and spent some of the takings on a second set of cheaper, stronger rock-smashing wheels and put dh tyres on them, totally worth it, partly for the grip and partly for not being upset when I inevitably smack them off a boulder.
I did have a blast on my dh bike but tbf all those venues are built to not really need it, it was just a lot of fun absolutely smashing into everything like a dropped hammer. But it did affect the trails I rode a lot, and some of my favourite trails didn't really work on it. (I don't do the big jumps, I'm sure a dh bike is better for ugly landings and cases and such, someone else would probably get more benefit). Like, imo Root Maneuvres is the absolute best overall trail at bpw but it just didn't click on the dh bike and the slog up from the bottom meant I didn't do it again. I have never enjoyed that trail less and it was frustrating.
TBH the first time we went to BPW and FOD I was on my Ragley Ti 26er hardtail and that was completely brilliant too, I reckon I had more fun overall on that than on the dh bike. I'd happily take my Titus #endurohardtail and just put a dh rear tyre in it, it's just my full suss would make more sense especially for full speed battering through rim dinger and such. Course, it depends on the rider too, the feeling of unstoppableness and bravery boosting from a good dh bike is something separate from actual performance, it's a great feeling especially if speed is your only thing.
The thing is the trails at modern uplift venues are so varied, even my Rocketmax felt like a lot of bike if I went and did terry's belly or in the super flicky bits at the bottom of Dirt Farm, but it still handles the blacks really well, up to the point where I can't do it and it makes no difference what the bike is. Modern long travel pedallable bikes are incredible tbh, half the reason I sold my dh bike was my Rocketmax was for my purposes almost as good at the big stuff and just miles better at the small stuff.
PS standard plug for Dirt Farm, slap between FOD and BPW and absolutely brilliant despite its smallness. Plus TrAcToR uPlIfT!
PS standard plug for Dirt Farm
Relax, you've already sold it to me. I have a 5 day voucher to use by the end of the year. Trailer uplift probably healthier than a festering minibus
Whatever bike you like +
This is a rubbish answer when my original question was 'what bike will I like?' 🤣
I can safely say after the last 6 hours on the Gen6 Fuel, it's bloody superb at BPW.
I may not be, but it is.
Not quite 'recommending what you've got' but close, If you can live with the looks and the weight, The Gen2 Privateer 141/161 looks a steal at £2.5k. My gen1 has been mint at various trips to BPW/Stiniog ect
I'm trying to come up with the same answer. I'm definitely dithering between a S150 and an S170. Feel like I might as well just go big really, i.e. the 170.
Dirt Farm is really good but you need body armour for the uplift. You think they'd splash out on some pipe lagging or something for the cage, sorry, trailer.
“I'm definitely dithering between a S150 and an S170. Feel like I might as well just go big really, i.e. the 170.”
Are they the same frame with different fork and shock lengths? Or different rear triangles?
There are so many bikes with decent geometry these days, I'd focus on what chainstay length and reach you prefer - and see what fits the bill.
My Bird Aeris 9 (probably too heavy for your needs) swaps between mullet and 29 quickly with a flip chip, which is a brilliant feature that I use quite a lot - especially at bike parks. So maybe that's worth prioritising in your case.
A few of these suggestions seem to be creeping well into the enduro bike end of things. My mate has the forbidden and its pretty heavy.
My choice for that would be a LLS trail bike. My Cotic Jeht is very at home at those type of places.
Cotic RocketMax can be had with 150, 155 or 160 rear travel and 160 or 170 up front. Full 29er or Mullet. I haven't ridden mine that much since I got it, only a few rides local, Grenoside and Stainburn, but I think it climbs better than any other FS I've had and its great going down. Pretty light as well. Mines a C2 so pretty small and compact frame/water bottle interface aside, I can't fault it.
A Cotic would be nice but I’m not keen on the geometry in the smaller sizes, mostly the chainstay length that probably works great if you are taller
Pinkbike's last field test covered a few likely contenders in the butch trail bike/all-mountain bike category you've outlined. Testing included bike park stuff.
"I'd focus on what chainstay length and reach you prefer - and see what fits the bill."
I've got sliding dropouts on my hardtail that I use for singlespeed chain tensioning but I recently swapped to a new chain and rear sprocket and have gone from close to max chainstay length to minimum chainstay length (440mm down to 425mm). At first I wasn't sure if I noticed what I assumed would be an obvious change but as the ride progressed I could feel the extra "flicky" responsiveness - but after a couple of hours I started noticing that I found it harder to keep the bike pointing in the right direction and was missing the extra stability and front wheel grip of the longer chainstay. (I was quite tired because I was trying a bigger gear and after another few rides I've concluded I'm not strong enough to push it!)
That bike is 470mm reach (at sag - hardtail) and clearly about 435mm chainstay length suits me better than 425, and I've got long legs for my height which I think suit longer chainstays (because longer legs push your hips back further when you hinge). However I think you can run much shorter chainstays for your height on a hardtail because the front wheel always has more grip with the fork helping out and the rear wheel skipping about unsuspended.
I don't think there's an ideal chainstay length for a given rider height/leg length or bike reach but I do think different riders suit different lengths and it's a big contributor to how a bike feels.
Pinkbike's last field test covered a few likely contenders
Oh yes, I’ve watched all the videos and even listened to the podcast. But I think the most telling part of the test was in the ‘ranked by science’ half serious testing. Matt Beer ran each bike down a section of trail and guessed which was fastest. Matt is a good rider and I trust that he gave an honest opinion but the stopwatch gave a very different story, a big reminder of how subjective any review is
Does it matter which bike is the fastest? You said you wanted a fun bike not a race bike.
The Geometron is such a great bike and so far ahead of its time that if I were you I’d test ride as many bikes as possible to figure out how you can improve on it.
I’d probably go and test the new version so you can see how you like it as a 29 or mullet, and try all the Mutator settings to figure how what you really like in chainstay length, reach, BB height, head angle etc. Or do the same with something else with lots of adjustments, like a Stumpy or a Privateer etc.
Does it matter which bike is the fastest?
No, that is a good point. But down the same trail taking the same line I’m thinking the bike that gets down faster is probably the one giving the most confidence, not the one that felt fast but wasn’t?
Mmmm not in my lads recent experience. He rode the Atherton A220, S200 and Session down race track. The most fun apparently was the S200 but was 3s slower than the A200 and 4s slower than the Session.
The Geometron is such a great bike and so far ahead of its time
I think this may be my problem.
Horst link works for me but I'm open to other systems.
I personally find horst links quite dull. They're good at ploughing through stuff but they don't really encourage you to pop about and have fun, ime.
Mmmm not in my lads recent experience
That is a different world to the one I ride in 😀
Mmmm not in my lads recent experience
That is a different world to the one I ride in 😀
Me too, but it was showing that fastest isn't always funnest. I get why it can be though of course. Some bikes IMO encourage you to be comfortable, but that's subjective and impossible to quantify. Some bikes i've jumped on and thought EWWWWW even though they should tick all the boxes.
P.S if you're near FoD i'll have both our ML Fuels every Thurs for the next 5 weeks in the evening. I'll even uplift you to the top 😀
I have ridden my Whyte T-130, Cotic Soul & Cotic Rocket at both BPW & FOD - all the bikes have been fun. Unless you end up buying an XC race bike I don't think you can go far wrong.
“I personally find horst links quite dull. They're good at ploughing through stuff but they don't really encourage you to pop about and have fun, ime.”
It totally depends on the exact pivot points - a lot of Horst links used to be quite linear with low anti-squat and low anti-rise. Nowadays loads of them are progressive with high anti-squat and some have fairly high anti-rise too.
Yep, Horst links can be fun! The old Lapierres (I had a Zesty and Froggy) were very poppy and engaging.
Current Bird is indeed very progressive with decent anti-squat, but more neutral in ride feel. Very good at it's job of being a predictable burly enduro bike, but not "absolute most fun".
Transition Sentinel does everything well for me, plus it’s a looker.
Equally the following would all do a similar job with varying focus either towards more poppy or more plush:
Bird Aeris AM
Trek Fuel Ex Gen 6
Santa Cruz Hightower / Bronson
Ibis Ripmo (albeit the alloy one is a little ugly)
Atherton A150 (the alloy version is pretty heavy - but if it was just dedicated uplift bike then S170)
The new gen Privateers are cheap right now but both heavy and ugly imo.
The new gen Privateers are cheap right now but both heavy and ugly imo.
Privateer are local to me. I know people who work there, I love the specs they come up with and I can cope with ugly (some say I have no choice 😀 ) but **** me their weight is out of all proportion on the gen 2 models, I think gen 2 was a backward step from the originals.
YOu could do worse than a cheap Gen1, i may know of a 141 size P2 that could be aquired cheaply.
My Privateer 141 was a surprisingly good bike. I had the Ohlins edition and the suspension was mint which helped.
I'm much happier now on a mullet for the riding you describe. It just tips over more easily and is much more fun for ducking and diving.
And yes, it did survive a fall from an uplift trailer where it flew off the road into the bushes. It absolutely battered both Hope brake levers but if I'd left the standard Maguras on they would have snapped clean off so I was counting my blessings that day.
Decision made, Edit MX ordered. Pics next week hopefully
I don’t think you can go wrong with an Edit Mx - should be a great bike for your purpose
Came here to say Edit...too late it seems!!
Decision made, Edit MX ordered. Pics next week hopefully
I love a man who makes big decisions. Good work.
Airdrop should have me on commission. This is the 4th sale I've 'consulted' on.
Post pics asap.
Here's a recent snap of mine to get you pumped. I've been taking a lot of pictures during its 12 month refurb. Frame is still mint.
I could have been tempted by green but the current ‘hearing aid beige’ didn’t grab me so I went raw. Very nice it looks too,
