[Closed] What is gravel grinding ?

Schralping the gnarmac to the maxx on epic adventures, innit?

It's what people do when they wake up and realise that they've been overbiked ever since they bought a Flexistem.

Flexstem? Gravel?

Your wish, etc...

Over biked or under skilled? Why yes, yes it is.

😂

It’s a US term to describe long rides on the unsurfaced gravel roads that are common in the American mid-West. It meant that drop bar/CX type bikes developed, with bigger tyre clearance, better gearing and more comfortable geometry (think ‘UK hardcore hard tail’ compared to traditional XC Race MTB). Happily for us it gives a bike that’s not sluggish on tarmac, is perfectly suited to forest roads and smooth bridleways and with a bit of skill can handle MTB type trails (albeit more slowly downhill, maybe). Shit pigeon hole, great bikes.

yeah what boxelder says, mine is a glorified commuter for the canal tow paths and riverside trails, road bike for sportives and big KM runs, mixing it up machine for a train trip to the peak and a bit more. It's kind of the middle ground, goes further if you can pick a line and true front wheels too

Happily for us it gives a bike that’s not sluggish on tarmac, is perfectly suited to forest roads and smooth bridleways and with a bit of skill can handle MTB type trails (albeit more slowly downhill, maybe)

perfect description

 It meant that drop bar/CX type bikes developed, with bigger tyre clearance, better gearing and more comfortable geometry

Yup, tourers. 🙂

Embrace the Carradice.

Tourers are to ‘racers’ what ‘gravel’ bikes are to CX. Is there something wrong with choice in the world of cycling?

edit: nowt wrong with Carradice (except racks....)

Gravel - mtb riding for the scenery instead of the adrenalin stuff?

Nope, that’s bimbling. Don’t even think about taking that away from me. 😾

I love gravel riding, flying down forest roads at 60kph on 35mm tyres and on the drops is thrilling.

Another thing that gravel has taught me is how unpleasant it is to ride a MTB on the road.

That said if l want to go for a true off road adventure ride without having the stress about coming up against terrain where i am clearly underbiked the MTB will always be the right tool for the job

The gravel bike will never truly replace the MTB

Happily for us it gives a bike that’s not sluggish on tarmac, is perfectly suited to forest roads and smooth bridleways and with a bit of skill can handle MTB type trails (albeit more slowly downhill, maybe)

Yep, good description.  And although you can actually use a road bike or a mountain bike for that with the right choice of tyres the gravel bike is still a better choice for most. (odd that I don't ride one really)

I agree 100% with both Boxelder & andypaul.

However you could go to Kielder for instance, when it's wet and you will get plenty of grind.

🙂

The gravel bike will never truly replace the MTB

I think you'd have to be an utter fool to consider the thought that it could.

It’s what people do when they wake up and realise that they’ve been overbiked ever since they bought a Flexistem.

This. And also what you do when you realise your local trails are crap, you don’t want to drive for an hour to ride your bike and you’re not sure if road is for you.

And fixed gravel bikes are for the win.

I think you’d have to be an utter fool to consider the thought that it could.

In the classic I want a do it all bike threads you realise all means very little.

And fixed gravel bikes are for the win.

They sure are and are the cause for more grinding than most people will be doing.  I run a low gear for fixed (61GI) but still have to grind up most gravel hills.

In the classic I want a do it all bike threads you realise all means very little.

Aye, it generally means 'I've reached mid 50's, realised I'm actually pretty shite at this MTB lark, and in my time poor, cash rich life, driving somewhere awesome is really not an option. However, I'll just tell folk I'm overbiked, and that's the reason I've bought a do-it-all-mince-tanker'.... 🙂

A US term. UK equivalent is Byway Bashing or similar. Green laning by bike maybe. 'Grinding', see 'crushing' and other trash-talking bro phrases. We'll have less of that over here, thank you very much.

Aye, it generally means ‘I’ve reached mid 50’s, realised I’m actually pretty shite at this MTB lark, and in my time poor, cash rich life, driving somewhere awesome is really not an option.

Maybe, although for me gravel bikes have genuinely given me a new riding experience.

I do feel that gravel riding is probably the future of road cycling,

With the roads becoming increasingly congested and therefore dangerous more and more people want to get off road, but as you say many will not and may never have the skills to fully enjoy a trail centre, and for whatever reason do not want to ride a MTB.

I do feel that gravel riding is probably the future of road cycling

It's really not. Road cycling is the future of road cycling.

What you are talking about is a form of cycling that is very enjoyable, an alternative for you to road cycling and all it's perceived dangers.

No form of cycling is ever gonna replace another, just because it suits a very small cross section of the cycling community.

You need to remember that a lot of people live nowhere near any gravel roads, whereas almost everyone lives near tarmac roads (If you have to drive for 2 hours to go for a gravel ride I think you have missed the point.).

I live in the middle of a lot of gravel roads but the majority of people riding bikes are road riders who just ride straight past all the lovely gravel roads as that is not what they want to ride.

Gravel bikes have a limited market because of that so can't see it continuing to grow and will probably decline over next 10 years.

You don't need gravel roads. . .My. Riding is a hell of a lot of canal tow paths and flat bw's along with the ncn routes of old railway lines etc.

Gravel bikes have a limited market because of that so can’t see it continuing to grow and will probably decline over next 10 years.

I'd tend to agree, but it's not quite straight forward predicting where the market goes, ten years ago I'd never have thought that a huge number of us would be riding 160mm FS bikes that are comfy and light enough to ride all day. A few years back, we were all gonna be riding fat bikes according to some (I haven't seen one in ages now that I think of it)

Choice is great, as is evolution, it gives us all something to talk about. Talk of one type of cycling being the future for all is just bunkum though.

I live in the middle of a lot of gravel roads but the majority of people riding bikes are road riders who just ride straight past all the lovely gravel roads as that is not what they want to ride.

Fair enough, its just that bike manufactures seem to making a big effort turning their road bikes into gravel freindly bikes ( big tyes,disc brakes) in addition to gravel stages in tours. Something must be happening..

, its just that bike manufactures seem to making a big effort turning their road bikes into gravel freindly bikes ( big tyes,disc brakes) in addition to gravel stages in tours.

Or just adding one more in there, bigger tyres and endurance geo is great for most roads, there was a proof that bigger tyres are not slower for most so an evolution.

Disc brakes don't mean gravel just evolution again.

The gravel stages are mostly an unfinished summit isn't it?

Having bought into this space recently I don't see it being pushed as everything but there are a lot more choice for road and gravel is an addition.

( big tyes,disc brakes)

I never assumed any of this was for gravel?, bigger tyres make more sense on road bikes for the average Joe, minimal if any loss of speed, protects rims, bit of comfort too. Disc brakes were always coming as they're just better.

Edit - beaten to it by MWS!

I never assumed any of this was for gravel?, bigger tyres make more sense on road bikes

Agree, but i think the driver for all of these is still for the average road cyclist to, in one way shape or form to get off road. Whether the off road is a canal path, forest road, bike path or gravel track the desire is obviously there.

My opinion is slightly skewed as i dont live in the UK, but can say that my LBS is doing an absolutely roaring trade in gravel bikes specificaly the trek checkpoint for some reason.

Gravel bikes have a limited market because of that so can’t see it continuing to grow and will probably decline over next 10 years.

I would disagree with this entirely. Because of the appeal, flexibility and general "do it all" nature I think they have one of the biggest potential markets in the bike world. Commuters, gravel riders, adventure biking/bikepacking, casual riders looking for a first road bike even. There is plenty of scope to market these "go anywhere" bikes.

For most isn't it just the latest fad to replace fatbikes?

bigyinn

For most isn’t it just the latest fad to replace fatbikes?

They're a good complement to a fatbike though. Covers the other seasons with a bit of overlap.

If there was a fad with fatbikes, it was with folk who were using them as a general purpose trailbike, a bit like buying a Landrover when a Subaru would be better suited. And that's perfectly ok if you like it, but there's a lot of compromises.

I think fatbikes will become more visible in the next few weeks. The conditions for most of this year haven't merited bringing out the fatbike - I have only done one long ride on mine once since February. However the snow is down to 2,000 feet at the moment here, so if this weather continues, it's fatbike time.

Maybe someone could do a Venn diagram of the ideal bike mix.

What do you reckon?

Basic set: Road; gravel; mtb; fatbike.
Icing on the cake: Fixie; ss mtb; DH
Oddball: Unicycle; vintage; retromtb; tandems; recumbents....

I'm sure there's more to be added to that. 🙂

I would disagree with this entirely

I will see you in 10 years and we can find out.

Maybe someone could do a Venn diagram of the ideal bike mix.

Different for different people.  Mine would just be a circle with a fixed gear track bike in it as it does all I need.

Bike types vs surface type. Effectivness rated 0 - 10. Hardtails come out as the best all round bike *

[url= https://image.ibb.co/cgmEk0/bikesurface.jp g" target="_blank">https://image.ibb.co/cgmEk0/bikesurface.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

* not scientific in any way shape or form

I will see you in 10 years and we can find out.

Some people take cycling forums way too seriously

Basic set: Road; gravel; mtb; fatbike.
Icing on the cake: Fixie; ss mtb; DH
Oddball: Unicycle; vintage; retromtb; tandems; recumbents….

Fixies,SS go into a new category ‘ slightly oddball’

I would disagree with this entirely. Because of the appeal, flexibility and general “do it all” nature I think they have one of the biggest potential markets in the bike world. Commuters, gravel riders, adventure biking/bikepacking, casual riders looking for a first road bike even. There is plenty of scope to market these “go anywhere” bikes.

We've had hybrids for years...

Some people take cycling forums way too seriously

Yes you do seem to.  You actually thought I would wait 10 years and them come back to see what had happened.  It wasn't a serious comment...

We’ve had hybrids for years…

Yep, and gravel bikes will eat into that market share. A quick google shows that road bikes, mountain bikes and hybrids all have a 20-25% market share. So, if gravel bikes took 5% off each category then it`ll have a healthy share of the market.

Nobeerinthefridge

We’ve had hybrids for years…

That's a fair comment, but generally speaking they were unattractive to either dropbar bike users or mtb riders.

They looked like they were aimed at old duffers to ride along smooth canal paths for a mile or two to the pub and back.

Most I saw had low spec groupsets and tyres, and I wouldn't be keen to go into the middle of nowhere on one. Shopping & commuting, maybe. The frames may have made a good basis for a custom gravel build though. (This being STW, I'll bet someone will now mention brand X which I have entirely overlooked. 🙂 )

but generally speaking they were unattractive to either dropbar bike users or mtb riders.

Agree, and they still will be unattractive for same reasons.   Gravel bikes have fashion on their side but fashion only lasts for so long (see fat bikes, fixed gear bikes, single speed MTBs and so on).  People buy one as gravel is what 'everyone' is doing and then go back to their road bike or MTB when they find out it doesn't suit them more than what they were already do.  10 years and people won't be talking about gravel bikes (and no I am not going to come back and check)

* not scientific in any way shape or form

You do know* that shape and form are the same thing.

* by which I mean you don't know.

They looked like they were aimed at old duffers to ride along smooth canal paths for a mile or two to the pub and back.

Ahem.... 🤣

You do know* that shape and form are the same thing.

* by which I mean you don’t know.

Yes, how dare you use a common phrase, that appears in the dictionary....

Ah, STW... 🤦‍♂️

Gravel bikes may well be the successful mixed use and commuter category for some time.  We’ve already shown that road bikes are too fragile for anything that isn’t their speciality, MTBs are usually either BSOs in disguise or way overspecified for most riding and potential security nightmares to boot and actual CX bikes are just too focussed for most riders who didn’t want to spend a muddy hour trying to go round a field as many times as possible.

As a race:event format, Gravel in the UK is a near non starter I’d think.

A way for bike retailers to get people to buy an N +1 bike they don't really need? 😀

Seriously, these kind of bikes have always been with us though just they didn't have a name ,and people tended to build them up themselves as appropriate. The only 'new' thing is the disk brakes really but that goes for any bike with disk brakes.

People buy one as gravel is what ‘everyone’ is doing and then go back to their road bike or MTB when they find out it doesn’t suit them more than what they were already do.

Well for my TPT, bridleway, road, and canal path commute neither a road bike nor an MTB are as suitable as a 'gravel bike', i.e., a rugged road bike with wider tyres. One might as well say the gravel bike is a super-commuter bike for people with a few quid?

A way for bike retailers to get people to buy an N +1 bike they don’t really need?

One mans N+1 is another mans staple.

I’ll admit that when i first got my gravel bike i did wonder why? But after 5,000 or so k’s on it and well over 100,000m gained i wouldnt change it for the world.

Definately the best bike in my fleet (of 4).

“As a race:event format, Gravel in the UK is a near non starter I’d think.”

The guys from the US who have ridden the Dirty Reiver would disagree, but then we don’t have to agree on everything and ride the same stuff, do we. Choice is grrrrreat.

We’ve already shown that road bikes are too fragile for anything that isn’t their speciality,

Who is the "we".  I have ridden a track bike on gravel for 10+ years with road wheels, road cranks etc,.  Can't say I have found it too fragile yet.

^^^ you often post about riding a fixed wheel track bike off road through choice, may I ask why ?  Genuinely curious as seems an odd choice.

Gravel vs Road, in the UK (imho, if we take the industry average or generic product for each):

Gravel bike - I like road riding. I can ride fairly fast on road and I can link up nice lanes with byways, sometimes it's so I can avoid those faster busier roads that I don't find pleasant to ride on. I can fit bigger tyres for touring, or light off-road trips if I accept that it's a poor alternative to a real MTB.

Road bike - I like road riding and racing is influential. I want to ride flat-out fast or with a club, I need to minimise any losses on road and 1mph average speed drop is significant to me.

Based on something that, I don't see how 'gravel' bikes or a fatter-tyred drop bar bike could be seen as a minority thing. Majority? Subjective, but based on the tyres and riding position of most road riders I see out and about, I wouldn't bet against it. You could say I've bet with it - in hindsight I've had 10+ years of basing a chunk of my professional reputation on this market balance/judgement and bike type.

It's the evolution of the modern, all round bicycle.

The 'g****l' bit is a superfluous Americanism used  by those who can't exist without compartmentalising everything.

They are bicycles, plain and simple.

What is Gravel Grinding ?

Its a bit like 'Sex on the Beach', but the beach is in Sidmouth

used  by those who can’t exist without compartmentalising everything.

...marketing depts. But some genre-fication is just how we all work so I don't hate them for that : )

Rusty Spanner

...

The ‘g****l’ bit is a superfluous Americanism used  by those who can’t exist without compartmentalising everything.

They are bicycles, plain and simple.

They are all bicycles.

Here you are sir, a bicycle. Of course you can ride it down Ben Nevis, it's a bicycle.

Oh, you want to have a crack at the world track record? No problem sir, it's a bicycle.

And then go touring around the world? No problem sir, it's a bicycle.

I think I prefer compartmentalising my bikes.

Gravel is good. 🙂

The ‘g****l’ bit is a superfluous Americanism used  by those who can’t exist without compartmentalising everything.

This is how language works. People use words as a shortcut to a longer description based on shared understanding of what the word is being used to describe. You might not like the term but you know what it means and modern all-round bicycle doesn't make any more sense unless there is consensus about what it describes.

Anyway, if you feel so strongly about the use of language to reduce ambiguity you could always change your user name to Corroded Implement and keep things open ended

(Use of punctuation marks as symbolic element indicating post is intended to be understood in a non-serious tone)

 you could always change your user name to Corroded Implement

I was thinking Old Tool.

you often post about riding a fixed wheel track bike off road through choice, may I ask why ?  Genuinely curious as seems an odd choice.

Because it is the perfect bike for me.  I started riding fixed gear in 2002 and loved it immediately.  I haven't used gears since that time but have tried singlespeed now and again but it is not as enjoyable as fixed gear.  First few years were on the road but then just rode it on all the gravel roads I was passing and it was just as good as on the road.  I genuinely don't find gravel any less comfortable to ride on than tarmac.

I think you either enjoy fixed gear bikes or you don't and if you see them as an odd choice that's because they are not for you.  To me an odd choice is to ride a bike with suspension, big knobbly tyres and loads of gears on a surface (gravel) where none of those things are required (to me) yet the majority of people I see are riding MTBs

I will admit it is slower on rooty/rocky single track but that is such a small part of my ride I just live with being a bit slower.

 You might not like the term but you know what it means and modern all-round bicycle doesn’t make any more sense unless there is consensus about what it describes.

I think there's more concensus in the real world about what an all rounder is than a gravel bike.

I was thinking Old Tool.

🙂

Shush now Onion and post us another picture of your tourer. Or is it a gravel bike now?

😉

Think I just finally discovered what it means.

Am camping halfway down the Mawddach Trail. Arrive late in a rush, didn't pitch until nearly dark. Decide to take the singlespeed and camera westwards along the old railway line trail (properly grey and dead-flat gravel) towards Barmouth to grab some twilight shots. Get nearly all the way to Fairbourne

4km

before realising that it would be nice to have a pint, maybe a bite to eat? Before realising that I don't have my wallet as left it back at the site. Stop to take pics. Fit the new front light. Send txt campsite owner saying have arrived, and another to wife to let know all is well. Cycle back to site for wallet.

8km

Decide against returning towards Barmouth, am now really hungry so decide to cycle instead to nearby George III Hotel at Penmaenpool . The gravel makes a wet grinding sound. It's now bloody cold out. Looking fwd to a pint. Tree tunnels are a bit spooky and new light a bit spotty. No other fool out tonight. Become hypnotised by the tree-tunnels. Arrive at George III anticipating ale, egg and chips or something.

10km

Looks dark in there.

'Closed until March'.

Bit of swearing. Do I - 1. Cycle double original distance back to Barmouth? or 2. Carry on to Dolgellau?
Choose 2.

Getting damp and colder. Gravel is wet with low cloud/mist, gravel now clay-like with small puddles. Is spackling my bike and face. The tedium is a monotone song of tyre-crunch and clay-spatter The chain is making a subtle grinding noise. My cadence is unchanging. The tree-tunnels go on for a few km. Beam pattern of front light has subtle concentric circles at the outer radius. These create softly radiating broken waves of light on the tree-trunks and branches up ahead. Hypnotic and a little disorientating.

Arrive Dolgellau

14km

Lock bike. Order pint of Landlord in Torrent Bar. Discover no bar food available. Order Scampi Fries from the Gods. Decide to check phone for signal and options. Learn in moment of extreme cringing horror that my txted declarations of reassurance and affection ('tent up, goodnight my lovely, kisses etc, battery 8%') had been sent NOT to Mrs Rider but instead to the (lady) owner of the campsite.

Argh ARGHARGH.

Laughed out so loudly, had then to explain to total strangers in bar what was going on. In case I looked weird. Now I'm just digging a hole in public. Hating self. Order pint of Purple Moose. Sit and try to apologise-text the landownerlady but there is no signal. It seems a bit late for apologies. Gah. Order another pint of Purple Moose (Elderflower Ale). - damn, it's good beer.

Finally go outside and procure a signal. Explain to campsite owner my prior txt error, via correct txt. 'No worries' is the terse/economical/unworried response. I think, maybe 'phew'. Then spy a burger/kebab/pizza/shop across the way. FOOD! Go enquire and order. Half-pound shiteburger w/cheese is against my principles but am ravenous, slighty squiffy and defences down.

Knock back a final 'farmer's half' and then leave to collect burger and chips across the way. Stuff food parcel unceremoniously into Lobo backpack and head again for the trail. Jesus, it is cold tonight. Don't favour burger and chips really. Wish had ordered curry but impatience won the day. Really don't want cold burger and chips. Ravenous, remember? I bollock it across a floodlit empty rugby pitch, taking some clumsy air off the retaining bank to land ceremoniously if optimistically once more on the Mawddach Trail. Gravel, sweet gravel. ⛺️ and hot food seems achievable.

I get into the grind, go hard and peg off another 7km to a grand total of 21km. A reasonable distance for what was to be a quick pint. I make a lot of motivational noises, whoops and barks, maybe because it's so eerily still and quiet across the estuary and in the woods. Halloween was the night before, yet I wonder if the veil is still thin!

Grind. Grind. Keep looking forward.

I arrive at final trail to the camp somewhat sooner than anticipated. YES! Could eat my weight in chips. Lie on stomach, close tent to keep in the cold, then carefully unwrap the damp, flappy paper and open the precious styrofoam container as if cracking a safe. This releases a small, sorrowful pool of barely-warm grease and thin garlic mayo onto my groundsheet. This looked worse than anything. It looks way worse than a burger and chips should ever look.

I take a sad photo as a keepsake. It really is the worst food I've ever bought. The chips are somehow drier than sand and emptier than little leather bags of nothing. The 'cheeseburger' is a gravel-grey grease sponge. The 'bun' is a smear of something like flesh that folds back like a graze-wound to reveal some limp, slimey snot-green innards that in no way resemble the 'salad' I ordered. It is a horror-parody of food. It is matter and snot in a soggy flap of pap. There should be cheese, I think I see it among some lurid salmon pink wet speckles atop the grey mass. Or maybe that is it?  I eat every last mouthful as would a joyless automaton. As a man who knows he is due to be hanged at dawn.

Life is good. But not that good. I sleep as a means of escape. Next day it takes me 30 mins with handfuls of dew-y grass and lush sphagnum moss to clean the gravel-mud spatter from the bike. Another 10 to locate and remove the burger-grease from the groundsheet. Two days later, am still removing the experience from mind and body.

Gravel is predictable. Life is not*. I'd do it all again in a heartbeat. Except for the food.

*Unless are supreme cynic, in which case confirmation bias predicts everything with unnerving accuracy.

#lordovgravelz

#fatblokfetcheschipviabike

#ridetothepub

#bimblegeddon

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Shape 2d.

Form 3d.

Apart from that they're the same thing yeah.

I've been thinking about combining my (mothballed) road bike and rigid mountain bike into some sort of gravel compromise. It'd work for a large chunk of the riding I do. However, a trip to Calderdale on Friday swings the balance for me - happy enough riding things like Blue Pig and Pecket Well on a rigid bike, but wouldn't be quite so happy if I had drop bars on the front...

But I've mothballed the road bike because I no longer have any interest in being limited solely to roads on any given ride. If I go back to a 2-bike shed, I think the gravel option would have to be looked at.

I think there’s more concensus in the real world about what an all rounder is than a gravel bike.

All-rounder could mean pretty much anything that spans a section of the bike spectrum from enduro bike to aero road bike depending on your point of view. Gravel bike, for better or worse gets us into the right sort of area of robust drop bar bike with wide tyre clearance. Is that so awful?