[Closed] What IS Enduro - seriously!?

^^

similarly, ARD Rock Enduro,

Ard Rock Enduro (40km lap, 5 timed stages) – Sunday 9 August 2015
‘Ard Rock Enduro Sport (35km, 3 timed stages) – Saturday 8 August 2015
‘Ard Rock All-Mountain Challenge (35km single timed lap) – Saturday 8 August 2015

that bottom ones a single lap xc race surely

chakaping - Member
This only happened in your head though, didn't it?

Well there seems to be a whole industry based on slapping the word Enduro on any product possible and people buy it to "be Enduro". Racing seems to have little to do with it.

And before that it was all mountain.
Before that it was free ride
Before that it was ....

Well there seems to be a whole industry based on slapping the word Enduro on any product possible and people buy it to "be Enduro". Racing seems to have little to do with it.

Yeah there's tons of marketing but these supposed enduro fashion victims don't actually exist, or I haven't met any of them. Even at enduro races.

Not done races so can't comment there, but plenty sport the Enduro look in the Surrey Hills, complete with the goggles and trail lid. Though arguably there's a practical element to the goggles.

And as I say the local "Enduro" races near me seem to be all XC riders, but then the formats don't appear to be Enduro anyway despite using Enduro in the race name. I don't know, this is what confuses me.

Ironically that third option at 'Ard Rock is the one that appeals to me the most. I'm sure the riding is fun at these Enduro wotsits, but when it comes to sorting out the 'results' I don't really understand why you ignore the uphill bits.

Well I do, it's DH racing for people that don't want to do DH racing, for whatever reason.

Nothing wrong with it, but it's a shame that there's so many people that aren't interested in trying on the climbs and we then don't have a series of xc races where the descents are properly good fun.

If you kept the stage format, but with ups and downs scored and a points system that balances out the value in being fast up and fast down (So that being 20s faster down the descent isn't negated by someone being a minute quicker on a 30 minute climb) you'd have something pretty cool. And keeping stages means you can set off people on the descents at good intervals so they're not ruined by mincers.

But I need to sort myself out and get out on my bike a lot more often before I start worrying about what races are out there!

I don't see whats so hard to understand about it. You're racing trails that vary from ones that could be ridden on an XC bike to ones a lot of people would ride DH bikes on (the breadth of mountain biking) on the lightest bike you can find because you also have to pedal uphill.

It's not the same as an XC race because an XC race is a race up the hills, i.e. pretty much always a sufferfest, and is not won by the best bike handler but the fittest person.

It's appealing because it makes a race out of the kind of trails that you would ride normally. If you want to ride those trails normally on a light titanium singlespeed 29er; that's great for you, but that isn't the fastest kind of bike over them. You can call it "a sunday XC ride", but all that implies is that you are going slowly. Unsurprisingly, if you wanted to race your mates down the kind of singletrack trails you ride in the UK on a regular basis, you'd probably want to be riding a 6 inch 650b bike.

But that's the sensible answer and most people in this thread are just trolling.

jeez, those^^^ bikes take a beating eh!

Have a look at the ISDE.
That kind of a beating for six days in a row with only rider maintenance on them and very limited spare parts.
And not a bottle cage in sight.

I do find it funny all thelse fat bike riding, lumbersexuals picking on #Enduro for being a ridiculous dayglo fashion fest full of Audi ****... People in glass houses hurling breeze blocks, etc...

Where's that then?
I'm just seeing a bit of banter and some people trying to adopt a name from a sport that's been going on for a long long time.

You're more than welcome to ride whatever bike you ride in whatever fashion you like.
Just remember one thing though.
It's all fanying about on kids toys in the woods. 8)

Even propper Enduro.

I went to a bike park once and was overwhelmed by all the DH fashion victims. Full face helmets, pads pretty much everywhere, loose fitting clothing and special "Downhill" bikes. As if you need all that to mince down a hill - it's just mountainbiking right? What a pathetic bunch of marketing victims.

Not to mention all the XC specific gear out there. It's basically just doing a few laps around the local woods so why would you need lycra or special jerseys or helmets or bikes for that? Just call it mountainbiking and be done with this silliness.

[URL='http://troll.me?p=27062'[IMG] [/IMG][/URL]

Should see the DH kids at Swinley 😆

Or "mountain bikers" as we called them when [b]I[/b] was young.

Should see the DH kids at Swinley

not sure what your point is
is it fashion victim related?
or is it terrain related?

The issue is that the UK calls marathons (long XC races) enduros. So things like the Brass Monkeys are marathons, but we call them enduros. Thus when enduros came over here we called them gravity enduros, seems now they've gained sufficient traction that Enduro now generally means the gravity type, but some long XC events still use the moniker.

The problem is people on STW think that 40k around bridleways is mountain biking or that the "Gnarly" video really is "gnarly" let alone a trail worth riding.

Again. Go do an EWS and your hardtail with 130mm forks and you'll soon realise your bike is shit/your shit and that aside from the marketing BS it's a really good racing format.

people on STW think that 40k around bridleways is mountain biking

Go do an EWS and your hardtail with 130mm forks and you'll soon realise your bike is shit/your shit and that aside from the marketing BS it's a really good racing format.

JCL.
Go and do an ISDE and you'll soon realise you're just pissing around in the woods on a kids toy. 😉
Enduro my arse.
Go and nick an identity from another sport. 😛

I'm not trolling in the slightest. But the bit I struggle with about Enduro races is that it's racing trails you'd normally ride on your normal trail bike. I'm sure I'm not alone in usually riding these trails as fast as I can anyway, so why do I want to pay someone for the privilege of getting a piece of paper that says I was faster than X, but slower than Y. Just seems a bit unnecessary when you bear in mind all the faff that's then tacked onto what would be a normal ride.

I'd point out that if you want technical timed downhills there's another option, but appreciate that lots of people want to race without buying another bike.

Is it just Downhill for fat-knackers? Now I'm trolling.

that just brought back memories of the "expert enduro rider (motorbike)" walking his bike down the Ft.Bill WC track 🙂

I have to agree with JCL. For me 40k around bridleways is not mountain biking . And that gnarly trail doesn't look worth riding.

I've just been watching various EWS footage on youtube..

Seems to me like even the enduro discipline attracts it's share of inept mincers that can't stay on for toffee

expert enduro rider

Did he give you any credentials with that?
World rounds?
European rounds?
British rounds?
Six Days?

Or just an "expert" at a local H and H event.

Just like any sport anyone can tell you they're an "expert"

When it comes to Enduros the word you need to hear is "Championship" not Expert.
Or just look for the red numberplate.

paulrockliffe - Member
I'm not trolling in the slightest. But the bit I struggle with about Enduro races is that it's racing trails you'd normally ride on your normal trail bike. I'm sure I'm not alone in usually riding these trails as fast as I can anyway, so why do I want to pay someone for the privilege of getting a piece of paper that says I was faster than X, but slower than Y. Just seems a bit unnecessary when you bear in mind all the faff that's then tacked onto what would be a normal ride.

I'd point out that if you want technical timed downhills there's another option, but appreciate that lots of people want to race without buying another bike.

Is it just Downhill for fat-knackers? Now I'm trolling.

Unfortunately DH races are actually boring as **** for the most part. Saturday is generally ok, depending on the venue, but Sunday..... 2-3 practice runs, sit on your arse (in the cold unless you've got a camper) for 3 hours, race run, sit on your arse for 3 hours, race run, home - add in the joys waiting at the start and red flags too. One of the main things that sells Enderpo to me is cutting away all of that crap.

When you're a DHer, racing is just on trails you normally ride a DH bike on.
When you're an XCer, racing is just on normally ride an XC bike on.
ENDURO is just the same for trail bikes

Did he give you any credentials with that?

Yes, luckily he was carrying copies of his CV that day 🙄
It was years ago, he talked a very good game, he walked down, it was funny. There endith my interest

he talked a very good game, he walked down, it was funny.

40k around bridleways is not mountain biking .

That's not mountain biking, that's sliding down a hill [i]with style[/i]

Is an "expert" like a "legend"?

Sorry, are you having a pop for some reason? If so, don't be a ****

Are you serious...

You do have jokes in [s]not fast enough for DH, not fit enough for XC land[/s] "enduroland" don't you.

40k around bridleways is not mountain biking .

perhaps you could clarify something for me; which of the UK Enduros take place on mountains?

http://www.bluegrasseagle.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=186:glencoe-2015&catid=92:tappe-bet-2015

singlespeedstu - Member
Are you serious...

You do have jokes in "enduroland" don't you.

Right, so you are just being an arsehole now? Have a word

I'll leave you to your serious persuit of trail riding against the clock then. 😐

I remember when it actualy was people pissing about on bikes in the woods without thinking they were all of teh gnars...

soobalias - Member
not sure what your point is
is it fashion victim related?
or is it terrain related?

Both 😀

Very little elevation and a couple of tables and jumps, and they're turning up in full PJs and armour, big rig DH bikes. The pros turn up sometimes for a play and they're on trail bikes, in baggy shorts or even jeans.

Though to be fair many of the kids can't manage to get out to Aston, Rotate etc.

Not that I've ever understood the practical reason for the PJs in downhill, but then I'm not a downhiller.

Still, then you have the weekend warriors with big camelbaks full of spares for every eventuality. I'm one of them 😀 . Though I am trying to cut down on what I carry and just be confident I won't need any of it.

njee20 - Member
The issue is that the UK calls marathons (long XC races) enduros. So things like the Brass Monkeys are marathons, but we call them enduros. Thus when enduros came over here we called them gravity enduros, seems now they've gained sufficient traction that Enduro now generally means the gravity type, but some long XC events still use the moniker.

That explains my confusion actually, cheers. Have different groups of people I ride with and talk of Enduro comes up but seems they are referring to different things.

I fancy trying one myself. The ard rock looks good as a weekender. And I tell you something right now!! If I see any of these yellow clad enduro types mincing about on a carbon enduro rigs turning up in their 30k Audis... I'll be thinking to myself! Nice car, nice bike, he's probably worked hard for that. On a serious note can anyone reccomend a couple of the more fun enduros please? Pref not trail center ones as I'd rather they were something a bit different.

Part of the problem is that 'Enduro' has been used by many different race formats over the years.

There are indeed long cross-country type races where the 'enduro' implies 'endurance'. These are not what people generally mean, but the organisers have been using the name for years in cases, so fair play.

What is normally meant is an event involving several gravity fuelled races down timed stages with non timed transitions between stages but there is usually an overall time limit and if start gates are used you probably have a target time to be at each trailhead or face a penalty. The transitions are largely there to stop people rocking up on downhill bikes as they'll need to ride up lots of hills. This is where the big 160mm bikes come in - for those with the cash it's an arms race to get the closestthing to DH suspension while still having a pedal able bike. As with all biking, many fall into the idea that buying a fancier bike will give them an advantage. Plenty of roadie clubbers do this also, so it's hardly news. The descent stages can get quite fast and some series are now requiring stuff like full Face helmets. Usually there will be stuff in there that you can't legitimately ride everyday.

It's a bandwagon, sure. People are milking it, and some people take it way too seriously. It's also still pretty grassroots though, so in theory, even big stuff like UKGE could be won by your mate if they showed at every race and rode like they stole it. Which is nice.

Hardtails are still in use, but rare. Someone did Ardrock on a tandem with yellow Crossmaxes last year. Speaking of Ardrock, the main two events use the same loop but time differently - thus the emphasis is different. The 'All Mountain Challenge' times and places overall for the loop from start to finish so is for racing snakes who can walk the descents if they wish but mostly ride them. The 'Enduro' times the descent stages and places based on these, so time between stages is not important.

I'm really not sure what the problem is. It's all good fun if you want to play that game, and there are plenty of other race formats to play with if you don't like it. Not racing at all is also a perfectly good option.

I do really like that 'what is enduro?' video with the lycra guys falling over lots though - a great send up of the industry fashion obsessions...

Apologies for wall of text... Cup of tea needed I think 🙂

40k around bridleways is not mountain biking .

Depends where the bridleways go surely? Have you not ridden in the Lakes?

scotroutes - Member

perhaps you could clarify something for me; which of the UK Enduros take place on mountains?

The UK is largely mountain-incompatible.

Hmm. OK, just because I fancy a pedantic argument- SES round 1 this year was on aonach mor, but we didn't actually go very far up it. So is that mountain biking, since we were on a mountain? I'm pretty sure we got higher above sea level at most other rounds and at the EWS but most of those were on hills. So I suppose riding up the first 1% of a mountain must be mountain biking but riding to the top of a 599 metre hill isn't.

How about kinlochleven? We went about 400 metres up na gruagaichean but then we traversed over onto meall na duibhe which is only a hill for the descending. It's enduro so the climbing doesn't count so that must be hillbiking (a scotsmen who went up a mountain but came down a hill).

(hey- I didn't notice before but the highest point of Glentress, Dunslair Heights, is 602 metres high, and therefore by UK government definition, a mountain. But just under 2000 feet so most people will call it a hill. And I'm not sure if that definition applies in Scotland. So the EWS and King of the Hill [i]may [/i]have been a mountain)

[quote=Northwind ]
Hmm. OK, just because I fancy a pedantic argumentYou were supposed to read the next line too. Unless of course.....

singlespeedstu - Member - Quote
You do have jokes in [s]not fast enough for DH, not fit enough for XC land[/s] "enduroland" don't you.

Has anyone posited the suggestion that Enduro is to MTB what Sportives are to road?

😉

scotroutes - Member

You were supposed to read the next line too.

Yeah but then I couldn't have had a pedantic argument. Now I'm having two! What larks

The problem is people on STW think that 40k around bridleways is mountain biking or that the "Gnarly" video really is "gnarly" let alone a trail worth riding.
Again. Go do an EWS and your hardtail with 130mm forks and you'll soon realise your bike is shit/your shit and that aside from the marketing BS it's a really good racing format.

Comments like this make me understand why Enduro is seen as so accessible, and filled with people having fun. Whilst XC racing is full of elitist tossers. Oh... Wait.

chakaping - Member
Depends where the bridleways go surely? Have you not ridden in the Lakes?

Some of the best descents I've ridden have been in the Lakes on bridleways, even compared to stuff around Morzine. Hell of a workout for an AM bike and dead arms at the end of it.

My local bridleways (Surrey) are nothing by comparison though they're a nightmare to ride as they're churned up by horses.

JCL - Member

you'll soon realise your bike is shit/your shit

My bike is my shit?
Perfect poo thread?

Has anyone posited the suggestion that Enduro is to MTB what Sportives are to road?

But you can actually win an enduro.

Paulrockliffe....the appeal of entering an enduro race is not being fiddled out of £50 to ride trails you can ride for free but the racing element obviously. Some people enjoy track days with their car or motorcycle....but it's not racing, people don't go balls to the wall on a normal ride even if they think they do....but put a timing tab on them and most people sprout horns and ride harder. That's racing.

There is also the appeal of knowing the trails will be closed for the race and that you won't come across a family out walking the dog or some idiot pushing uphill against riders coming down. That in itself is sometimes worth the entry fee.

Add in the freshly cut off piste stuff that most organisers build for the race and it becomes a good weekends riding....if you don't like or want the element of competition don't enter but plenty do like to test themselves against other riders.

singlespeedstu - Member
I'll leave you to your serious persuit of trail riding against the clock then.

I remember when it actualy was people pissing about on bikes in the woods without thinking they were all of teh gnars...

Or are you just jumping on the haterz band wagon? It's getting a bit full and I hear it's first come first served, the WiFi must be good up there though.

I'll say it for you again Mike. 🙂

You're more than welcome to ride whatever bike you ride in whatever fashion you like.
Just remember one thing though.
It's all fanying about on kids toys in the woods.

I'm not seeing any hate there.

I'm not seeing any hate there.

Dunno, but you typed it after a selective quote from my post earlier in the thread, where you effortlessly managed to ignore my point, and then make it back to me...

Whatever, you win the internetz...

Re. motorbike enduro existing first...

chakaping.
Just saying like...

I'll leave you guys to it.

You seem to take things a bit serious for my liking.

Some serious trolling here I fear. Four pages and no one appears to have said it's a multi stage dh race where you need to get to each stage under your own steam.

Four pages and no one appears to have said it's a multi stage dh race where you need to get to each stage under your own steam.

It's not a multi stage dh race though. Can feel like that sometimes though. For one thing, in downhill you have to stay between the tapes

It's Strava, but with mandatory payment to take part.

well I thought my reply was stupid but there are some corkers in here now

They make furniture don't they..

or aren't they people that have bought the student loan book?

Dunno I just ride my bike the way I want cos its just riding a bike and I can power my huge pile of supersciliousness (sp?) with just one turn of my pedals with my mighty thighs (via my feet, natch) and be all the awesomes without conforming to your conformist confromisms in a 'race'. In my fluoro pyjamas. And flat cap.

Honestly don't get what's so hard about this. It's abike race where you go as fast as you can for a bit. ride to the next bit then go as fast as you can again. Fatest wins. Is that hard? is it? (never done one like -am far too mincey)

Northwind

It's not a multi stage dh race though

Go on then, indulge me as to why it's not. Considering only the dh sections are timed.

Go on then, indulge me as to why it's not. Considering only the dh sections are timed.

they arent all DH. there can be some significant climbing in a stage to link sections although the stages will have an overall negative gradient.

jam bo - Member

Go on then, indulge me as to why it's not. Considering only the dh sections are timed.

they arent all DH. there can be some significant climbing in a stage although the stages will have an overall negative gradient.

You could say the same thing about Pietermaritzburg, or many other DH tracks for that matter.

You could say the same thing about Pietermaritzburg, or many other DH tracks for that matter.

I think "predominantly downhill" is the official definition innit?

Personally I think it's good that there's a form of MTB racing that's growing and relatively accessible.

I'd also like to see more local XC races, especially in the north of England, but I understand they have dwindled because there was not enough demand. But you never know, more people participating in enduro might feed back into XC too.

You could say the same thing about Pietermaritzburg, or many other DH tracks for that matter.

really? pedally sections are a bit different to uphill sections.

unless of course you are counting the jump upslopes at Pietermaritzburg.

I think "predominantly downhill" is the official definition innit?

Not all things that go down hill are downhill... Sure, sometimes you get stages that are basically interchangable with a dh race stage (often harder tbh- the average innerleithen enduro stage using the dh trails is harder than the average innerleithen SDA stage, frinstance) but more physical, generally longer. I've done few enduros where a dh bike would be the right tool, even if I had an uplift, and I've never done a 10 minute dh race, or a dh race with a significant climb or traverse in it. The level of practice makes a big difference too.

Basically it gives a false impression of what the racing is actually like. It's not a multi stage dh race any more than it's an XC race where only the descents count. And I don't think you'd find many people who've done both that would disagree.

Interesting seeing some of the hate & negativity from some corners. Funny too that it's from people who haven't even tried racing Enduro!

Fact is that to do well in Enduro, you need good strong fitness (both base to stay out on the bike for a long time and high end delivery for sprinting on the stages) and good bike handling skills on a par with a DH racer, coupled with good tactical skills to deal with things like energy management, calculating risk on the fly etc.

I've been riding and racing bikes since 92/93 and can say that based on my experience of racing old style XC (Malverns etc), new style XC (round and round in circles), a couple of marathon type events, then some DH and for the last 4 years Enduro, that it's the most "complete" race discipline. A good fast/fit XC racer isn't guaranteed to do well as their skills are likely to fall short, and a good DH rider would likely find the time on bike an impairment to their overall performance. This is frequently borne out in the results.

But that's at the competitive end - there's nothing to stop you doing an Enduro for a laugh and having a great time. I've never heard of an incident of arsey overtaking like we frequently see at XC events (even in the lower categories, which I never understood).

The "it's all marketing" line is bullshit too. The discipline was thriving long before the marketing departments of bike brands got behind it, but understandably, if a business identifies a "hot spot" in their industry, they are duty bound to act on it to capitalise on a market trend. That's not lizard rulers of the earth/bike industry, that is Business 101.

So in summary - give it a go. You'll love it. I don't know anyone who has tried the format and not had a blast. If you don't want to try it, that's all good too. But save the boring moans eh?

I don't like it and have tried it several times. Mostly because I crash a lot, and half the riding doesn't count to your result. In practice I'm fine but when the clock starts I fall off. My enduro career ended almost 2 years ago at Inners. Back to actual enduros (24 hour races) for me.

I don't have any objection to it, other than most of the riding not being timed, and think it's probably a valid format.

Northwind
Basically it gives a false impression of what the racing is actually like. It's not a multi stage dh race any more than it's an XC race where only the descents count. And I don't think you'd find many people who've done both that would disagree.

As false impressions go, it's not a bad one and far from the worst on this thread. If you want to be a pedant and argue the semantics of what constitutes pedally vs uphill vs downhill go ahead. I can't be arsed as it's pointless.

What constitutes enduro will vary wildly since the race formats and terrain do. I've raced various formats and I think it's an adequate description, especially if you are trying to explain what it is to someone who doesn't understand, ie the premise of the thread. Admittedly it's not a perfect definition but then it's not exactly a set in stone format. If you take the EWS as the flagship name in Enduro then one of the comparisons or analogies used repeatedly over the last few years by racers and commentators to describe the sections was "World Cup DH on trail bikes". Another was "some of these stages would rival a world cup dh track".

Whilst I realise that's not to be taken totally literally it gives an insight into what some of it is like.

jimjam - Member

If you take the EWS as the flagship name in Enduro then one of the comparisons or analogy used repeatedly over the last few years by racers and commentators was "World Cup DH on trail bikes".

I rode an EWS, built trails for it too, it was very different to a dh race. Hard enough to make a dh world champion say our local trails are crazy, mind.

The reason I object to "multi stage dh race" is it puts people off. It's a less inaccurate description than many in this thread, sure, but that's because many in this thread are absolute horseflops- it doesn't make it helpful.

The reason I object to "multi stage dh race" is it puts people off. It's a less inaccurate description than many in this thread, sure, but that's because many in this thread are absolute horseflops- it doesn't make it helpful.

Agreed.

Some of the climbs you'll find mid-stage are absolute killers and get into "saddle back up" territory, so definitely not DH. I'm thinking PS1 at Tweedlove when we were transitioning up and saw the first men on stage on the fireroad incline, lungs absolutely on fire, or PS2 in Finale in 2013 with a brutal technical climb that left you destroyed before the really steep series of bus stops.

That for me is what Enduro encapsulates - to be fast and do well, you need to be able to deliver at any moment in time, both physically and technically. The demarcation between the 2 isn't as pronounced as some would think.

I see where you are coming from as regards putting people off, but I still think it's a fair description. Go ahead and give me a better one, or a more succinct one if you want.

I think it's a good middle ground discipline for mtb, where you need cardio, skill and tactics. But there is, or at least there should be a minimum standard of riding required. Saying it's dh on trail bikes or multi stage dh might put people off but it also might stop people from going to hospital. I rode a few of the Fox Hunts and whilst not "Enduro" as such they still fall under that general heading. The last one had 400+ riders at it and a huge number of them were waaaaay out of their depth on what I would describe as a very benign trail. There were some nasty injuries and quite a few riders who perhaps would have given it a miss if they knew what they were getting into.

iv raced in 4 GE this year had a disaster in two but still enjoyed it and made more hungry for the next race. your race can be over after one stage where im guessing you can pull it back on an XC race.

My experience of Enduro so far is tough and fun!

My 2yo was out on the balance bike yesterday. He kept doing a bit of riding, then getting off for a little walk and a push. Lots of theatrical huffing and puffing. Then back on for a downhill stretch.

I'm fairly certain he thought he was in an enduro event.

jimjam - Member
I see where you are coming from as regards putting people off, but I still think it's a fair description. Go ahead and give me a better one, or a more succinct one if you want.

Simply put it's a Stage race where transitions are not part of the overall race time (but may be limited) The Race/Special stages will be mostly descending.

[b]Enduro Races 2014 44
Enduro Races 2013 24
Enduro Races 2012 16
Enduro Races 2011 7[/b]

Knock it all you want its the fastest growing cycling race discipline in the UK.
10,000 plus racers in 2014.

My take on format:
Multiple stages race with transitions between stages. Stages go downhill using a mix of trail and terrain. Short climbs and flat sections can be added to increase the endurance factor of a stage.

But there is, or at least there should be a minimum standard of riding required

Why should there be? Is that not the case for all events? What about road racing? More people die doing that than in any MTB racing, and the potential to injure lots of other people is far higher, and yet I suspect many on here will sneer at the notion that skill is required for road racing.

Where do you start if you don't have the skill? How do you know you're adequately skilled for an event? What if you think you are but it turns out you're not? Can only non-skilled riders get hurt? Are people not adults, and able to make a decision for themselves?

I find it odd that you have people saying how inclusive enduro is and what not, and others - Jimjam - trying desperately hard to make it as elitest as possible.

Why should there be?

What about road racing? More people die doing that than in any MTB racing, and the potential to injure lots of other people is far higher, and yet I suspect many on here will sneer at the notion that skill is required for road racing.

Far more people partaking in road racing would skew those figures so it's a pointless comparison. Also most clubs I know of conduct reliability trials to establish whether a rider is at the required standard to race, so unlike mtb it's not always just show up and race.

njee20

I find it odd that you have people saying how inclusive enduro is and what not, and others - Jimjam - trying desperately hard to make it as elitest as possible.

One post and I'm trying desperately hard to make it as elitist as possible? Jesus. I should really proof read my posts for elitist content. I've been at enduros where it was nigh on impossible to get a clean run through a section because so many people were walking the trail, I wouldn't like to repeat that experience. I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that.

Whilst it seems my description of "multiple stage dh" is seemingly inaccurate and off putting I don't think it's as damaging as having a large percentage of the competitors showing up and complaining that the course is too hard or too technical. You don't want to end up with a situation where you have commisaires going round checking everything for health and safety in case anyone might suffer a scratch as seems to be the case with xc in a lot of places.

andyrm - I don't think sensible posts have any place in this thread!

STW at it's best - I've missed it. Thank goodness for a quiet day at work.

I've not done an enduro yet but I'm waivering. Might have to give it a go in 2015.

I understand the format, I'm just not sure if the 30 minutes or so of individually timed riding on trails that you can ride anytime you like is enough to tip the balance.

I've done a couple of Megavalanches and really love that mass start format but I just can't see a few 5-10 minute descents recreating the same buzz.

That said, having ridden a few of the "Dudes" trails around Kinlochleven, I can see that they'd be fun to race, so I might have a go at that one.

What we really need is an uplift assisted enduro format, something styled on Trans Savoie maybe...

What we really need is an uplift assisted enduro format, something styled on Trans Savoie maybe...

Edit: mass start too 😉

....where's the "like" button...?