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Ok, looking at upgrading my Hope Pro2 Flows for something more exotic.
Basically I'm looking at cutting weight without cutting strength, will be used from XC to light dh.
So... what's the recommended? I'm imagining carbon are most likely what I'm looking for?
Thanks
King hubs, Enve rims. That's what I'd do anyway. Once I'd got home from the mortgage advisors.
edit: Also, one of the few times king hubs will be the cheap part of a hub/rim combo!
king hubs are so sexy. i love mine
gotta be carbon hasn't it
what about cheap(er) Chinese/Taiwan carbon rims? Anyone researched that?
There is a set of Enve's with Tune hubs on ebay - its been there a while so chuck him an offer.
Industry Nine wheels stand out if you want added bling (although I don't think mine on Flows are especially light)
I've some of those rims in my workshop waiting to be built onto my Hope hubs.
If I only I didn't have a kitchen to paint and eight chairs to sand before I can get round to building them (it's winter... I'll get round to them before the spring comes).
king hubs!
Have a set of I9 XC wheels built onto Archs which are quite light, very pimp. Though if i'm entirely honest the Archs are too narrow so they do burp occasionally when set up with wider non tubeless ready tyres. If I were to change anything with them I'd like to try those Chinese CF rims to see if they're any good, could probably also get round the rim width issue in the same process.
the Enve/Tune on eBay are mine, make me an offer
To make any real difference you'll need to go to some carbon rimmed jobbies. And tbh even when I was flush I baulked at nearly £2k, especially when reading the various issues with hub-sealing quality on the Havens.
Bought 2 pairs of Hope Hoops SP Crests' instead for £600.
And since you've already a set of Flow's, buy a pair of Hope c/w Crests for XC/Trail etc.
240s on Enve or Light Bicycle carbon rims for pimp value, or on Stan's Crest/Arch Ex for comparable weight and vast cost reduction.
I've been looking into this too, though for my 29erSS.
Best so far seem to be Carbon Reynolds rims, but hard to get the rims alone. Then Enve but I don't want to spend £2k thank you very much, or SRAM 60's.. I've HopeP2's and want to keep them, so looking for Spokes and Rims change only.
I can get a carbon wheel set from Reynolds for £1600 or SRMA's 60's for £1800, both on decent hubs, but my dilemma is my Hops are almost new..
I shall continue my search.
Superstar have started doing carbon rims:
http://superstar.tibolts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=49&products_id=675
Thanks for all the responses.
dirtyrider - I'll have a look after work as I'm blocked here for ebay.
What's the reason for sale?
So are Chris King that good? I love my hopes, but I know they're not that light. However for the ease of maintenance and parts.
Anybody build up Pro2s on Enve rims?
i really do love my kings. the only downside is IF the bearings ever do end up goosed you have to send back to the usa.
but the bearings have a metal sheild to retain a rubber seal and are fully serviceable. so in theary as long as they are looked after will last a long long time.
but i do really like the chris king brand. and the hubs just scream quality.
crossmax sx for me.
dirtyrider - I'll have a look after work as I'm blocked here for ebay.
What's the reason for sale?
29er
How much are you willing to per per gram saved is really the question.
Enve AM rims have 30mm external and 24mm internal widths, weigh 395g according to the website, and cost £700 each.
Flow rims have 26mm external and 22.6mm internal widths, and weigh 470g according to the website, and are £60 each.
A new Flow EX has similar widths to an enve, and weighs 490g, cost about £70.
So that's 100g saved for 10 times the price.
As for hubs, chris kings are 300g (rear) and 160g (front), versus hopes 185g front and 285g rear (claimed).
You could certainly save weight by going for something like DT Swiss 240s with enve AM wheels and aerolite spokes, but the cost would be crazy high.
Hope hoops with flows are about 1850g a set, while I9 AM wheels are 1650g, or enduro wheels at 1800g.
Mavic crossmax SXs are 1755g a pair.
You need to decide how lightweight, strong, and bling you want you wheels to look, and then figure out how much you are willing to pay for it.
With a bit of shopping around I built the light-bicycle AM rims onto DT240s hubs for £500/1500g. They seem to take a hammering with ease. There's a lovely feel to them, oo-er.
How much are you willing to per per gram saved is really the question.
That doesn't hold water with carbon rims. Everything mentioned here is heavier than a light alu rim at 1/10 the price. The benefit of carbon rims is in the stiffness. Apparently.
King hubs every time, got a set on both mountain bikes and going to get some R45's built up for the road bike.
That doesn't hold water with carbon rims. Everything mentioned here is heavier than a light alu rim at 1/10 the price. The benefit of carbon rims is in the stiffness. Apparently.
I'd agree with that for super-light XC rims, it's difficult to get something less than 270g in alu or in carbon, but up at the tougher end, things like enve DH rims save at least a little weight compared to similar offerings, and should be as strong, if not stronger. The downside is obviously the extortionate prices you pay for some very marginal gains.
I've currently got Hope Hoops with Flow rims. The pair weigh in at 1860g.
In the workshop ready to build up I have some of those wider carbon rims which Rorschach linked to. On paper each carbon rim is 100g lighter than the Flow rims and have the similar width and ECD; a straight rim swap will get my wheel weight down to 1660g.
My wheels are a couple of years old and both rims are a bit damaged so I'm going to change the spokes while I'm at it. If I change the current DB spokes and brass nipples to DT revolutions with Alloy Nipples I can shave another 100g from them... although this will probably reduce the life span of the wheels; my experience with DT Rev's and alloy nipples in the past was that I got two years out of them... which is the same as I got out of the Flow rims anyway so probably worth a punt.
When I get round to rebuilding the wheels I should end up with a nice wide AM capable wheel with a weight of 1560g or thereabouts.
Hmmm I see your point. Ignoring the stiffness benefit, A 100 grams in the grand scheme of things is very little when compared to the price differences.
I'd agree with that for super-light XC rims, it's difficult to get something less than 270g in alu or in carbon, but up at the tougher end, things like enve DH rims save at least a little weight compared to similar offerings, and should be as strong, if not stronger. The downside is obviously the extortionate prices you pay for some very marginal gains.
Agreed, although I'd say a Crest is a more of an 'all round' rim (it's what I'd use anyway for what the OP describes), and they're lighter than most of the carbon offerings. So you pay 10 times the price for something heavier...
There are also sub 250g (clincher) carbon rims at the other end of the scale. Scary.
njee20 - In response to the Crest suggestion, how much of a battering have these been known to take? I know they're listed as the xc version, which doesnt sound ideal for DH?
Don't get me wrong, I'm no champion racer or even close, but rocky trails are a personal fav and speed is how I enjoy riding (other than uphill).
I have a feeling I'd destroy a crest.
Hard to say, only you know (and potentially those you ride with) know your riding style. Personally, from my own interpretation of "XC to light dh" I'd have total confidence in them. Then again... I'm only 11 stone.
If you're looking for a tough rim I'd probably go to the Arch EX.
Just get Mavic CrossMax SLR's and be done with it.
Light(ish) and strong for their weight and UBER Sexy.
Crests are a bit twangy IMO, I'd go for something a bit more substantial for the riding you describe.
Just get Mavic CrossMax SLR's and be done with it.
No, STs or SXs depending on rider and riding.
Hope Pro 2 evo SP c/w Crests weigh 1560g without front axle end caps (which for the 20mm are another 25g the pair). Actual weight on scales for the 2 pairs I've got.
Messiah
[i]In the workshop ready to build up I have some of those wider carbon rims which Rorschach linked to. On paper each carbon rim is 100g lighter than the Flow rims and have the similar width and ECD; a straight rim swap will get my wheel weight down to 1660g.[/i]
What do those rims actually weigh?
What do those rims actually weigh?
363g each. Assuming a Flow weighs 480g (as per spec) then the Carbon Flow-a-like will actually save 120g per wheel 😀
I think rim width is really important when running big tyres for AM type riding. I had some Mavic 317's I ran for a while beside the Flow's and they were wibbly-wobbly-burp-tastic at the same 28-30psi with the same 2.3/2.4" tyres. Not sure of Crest and Arch width but I would not be willing to lose much width from a Flow to save weight.
I'd go american classic hubs with stan's arch ex built with sapim cxray spokes about 1600g
The more I look into this the more I feel like buying Stans XC Race rims and lace them with some spanky spokes (and keep my HopeP2's)
I've been searching lots of forums and then nearest value carbon rims come from Edge, don't want to spend 1200 on rims alone though.
Hey ho.
Unless someone knows better??
Tune Price/princess hubs, Stans Race rims, light stiff and strong, way cheaper than carbon
The E13 TRS+ rims are ~370g for an aluminium AM rim. Good width too. Think they are about £130 each?
Could build them onto a hub of choice for a cheaper way of building a blingy AM wheelset.
Tune Price/princess hubs, Stans Race rims, light stiff and strong, way cheaper than carbon
Not really for 'light DH' though... That said I've been impressed with what my Podiums have handled, but that's a full on race wheelset.
Not really in the same realm as carbon with regards to stiffness either - about the lightest alu rims out there!
bikebuoy, the chinese carbon rims on Ebay (or direct from light-bikes) are loads cheaper, and seem to get good reviews from folk on here.
Those Wider Carbon rims are $150 each. Add $50 for postage so $350 which is £220. I had import duty on top which was £30 I think... so £250 all in which is £125 per rim.
[url= http://www.light-bicycle.com/wider-mtb-26er-carbon-bike-rim-26-inch-rims.html ]These Wider Carbon Rims[/url]
Huge thread on MTBR with some +ve and some -ve... but show me any product which has never been broken?
Using my old hubs it was cheaper to try these than buy any new wheelset.
Industry Nine have just announced a new wheel set. They look very nice and apparently they're about 100-150grammes lighter per set. Which is not an insignificant saving over the previous set. [url= http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/01/11/industry-nine-teases-neindustry-nine-introduces-new-trail-wheels-lightweight-torch-hubsw-trail-wheels-hubs/ ]WANT!![/url]
Edit: 1420 grams for an AM wheelset that has a 23.4mm internal width rim. I Want them even more now.