[Closed] What Hardtail frame @ £350ish???

What type of riding?

slainte ❓ rob

A Dialled Bikes Prince Albert ?

Trail centre, from Wales, Nant yr Arian, Climach-X, Coed y Brenin all the way to Sherwood Pines, Cannock Chase to Peak District...

A Dialled Bikes Prince Albert ?

http://www.realcycles.com/m24b145s27p3140/2011_GENESIS_Lattitude_853_Frame_2011/RS_GB/7472

mmmmmm.....Maybe so, I like the price, You ride this bike? Any good?

[url= http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FROOCAR456ND/on_one_carbon_456_un_decaled_frame ]On-One Carbon[/url]

http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/BFe

But then I was bound to suggest that.

slainte 😀 rob

Cove Handjob from CRC. Massively underrated frame, slacker than a Slackline, same weight as a Soul and great fun with 120mm forks.

On-One Carbon

😯

If its as bomb proof as they say.....

tacopowell - Member
A Dialled Bikes Prince Albert ?
> http://www.realcycles.com/m24b145s27p3140/2011_GENESIS_Lattitude_853_Frame_2011/RS_GB/7472

mmmmmm.....Maybe so, I like the price, You ride this bike? Any good?

POSTED 23 MINUTES AGO #

Wrong link... http://www.dialledbikes.com/products/mtb/prince-albert.php

If you know anyone heading to the states this is an exceptional deal on a santa cruz chameleon http://www.competitivecyclist.com/frame/2012-Santa-Cruz-chameleon-5156.html

I've a C456 as my HT option. Fit a Talas to it and 3 bikes in 1!! Frame only weighs 1.5kg.

And it only cost £300 new!!

On One Carbon. No it's not steel, but it rides more like people think steel bikes should ride than many steel bikes (456 included) and of course weighs much less.

Does look horrible obviously.

Genesis Latitude 853

You should be able to find a deal on a Sanderson Life at that price which is an excellent all day bike, Orange R8 might be a stretch but worth a [url= http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/orange-r8-853-frame-blue-id62161.html ]look[/url].
Alternatively the pipedream Scion gets good reviews!

I'd go with the Kili at the price though!!!

Jay

I'm in the process of replacing my stolen Soul (insert joke here) with the Kili. If the chainring arrives today I'll be building it up tonight.

Is feels of very similar weight to the Soul and is very well finished.

If they did a black non-logoed 456c I would got one of those, but the bright yellow was too much for me.

Is the Kili the filet brazed 853 version?

If so, I would find it very difficult to resist (having owned a filet brazed Kili BITD).

If you want a [url= http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/1071229/ ]Soul at a good price :)[/url] give me a shout.

I have a C456. It's bombproof, light, comfy, versatile, cheap and I actually like the look of mine (stealth black). Personally, I'd find it hard to justify spending more on an all-round steel frame for any reason other than looks, which is of course a perfectly valid reason

yep. fillet brazed loveliness...

I have a Prince Albert having previously had a Cove Hanjob (which I snapped). I would never describe the Handjob as slack angled as someone did above,and while it's a good bike the PA knocks spots off it in every way, I could immediately rattle down rough steep stuff far quicker than I ever dared on the Handjob.
PA is about half the price as well last time I looked.

The PA deals with 7stanes trails, Inners DH and stupid steep Caberston and Enduro trails with no dramas, I don't think any other hardtail could make me faster on those trails.

A friend has a BFe which seems to have put him off riding, it seems over built for normal trail riding so is heavier than it needs to be and really needs a 140mm fork to get the angles right. (wouldn't work with your 120mm fork IMO)

I feel I'm getting repetitive about singing it's praises, but having bought an Orange P7 a few months back, I absolutely love it. I've owned a good few hardtails, steel and alloy, over the years, and I think this has eclipsed even my Chameleon as the best all rounder hardtail frame! It's the perfect do it all bike. I'm running 130 forks on it and it's perfect!

Couldn't recommend it highly enough!

The Handjob has a 67 degree had angle with a 130 fork, so relatively slack for a hardtail.

I've been looking at the Kili Flyer (although I'm not in the market for a frame yet); it looks lovely and is a great price but I'm a bit of a numpty when it comes to brazing but am I right in thinking that brazed joints tend to be a bit weaker than welds? Also, is there any point in brazing 853 when it's selling point is that it's air hardening and strengthens when welded?

As a happy Pipedream Sirius owner I'd say that the Scion is probably worth a look.

A friend has a BFe which seems to have put him off riding, it seems over built for normal trail riding so is heavier than it needs to be and really needs a 140mm fork to get the angles right. (wouldn't work with your 120mm fork IMO)

The BFe is lighter than a P7 and the same as a 456 (and similar to a PA) and has identical geometry to the Soul, for which 120mm forks are most popular but 100mm nice if you like it sharper or 140mm nice if you like it stabler.

Spaceman - Member
A friend has a BFe which seems to have put him off riding, it seems over built for normal trail riding so is heavier than it needs to be and really needs a 140mm fork to get the angles right. (wouldn't work with your 120mm fork IMO)

I run mine with 150mm forks but a lot of BFe riders on here say it handles best with 120mm/130mm forks (based as it is on the Soul geometry).

Unless you're a very light, finesse type rider I definitely would recommend the BFe as an all-rounder, especially now the new version has a 44mm head tube and replaceable gear hanger.

[img] [/img]

slainte 8) rob

Sorry but compared to my Prince Albert my friend's BFe feels like a tank. It does have heavier finishing kit I suppose but feels sluggish and unresponsive in comparison.

My handjob was a 2008 one which was definitely steeper than the PA, I guess the newer Handjobs may have different angles in which case I can't really comment.

Another friend has a P7 and it is a good bike as well, up there with the PA, I just don't think the BFe compares.

I wouldn't recommend a BFe for this at all. It's heavy and feels a bit dead. Would've thought something like the P7 or a Soul would be way better suited.

I think the OP has got it right with the Kili or Genesis - or maybe a c456.

From Mike @ Dialled: "The current earlier 520 and 853 Prince Alberts will be similar in weight to a BFE, but the newer 725 will be marginally lighter.
The forthcoming Prince Albert Classic (new 853 frame) due this summer will be slightly lighter still"

I'd be amazed if the difference you feel isn't predominantly down to the slacker head angle of the BFe with longer forks and the heavier finishing kit. A P7 is over a pound heavier at almost 7lbs! At that price though I'd be very tempted by the Kili.

Thanks for all the Prince Albert recommendations, which is quite timely as I've just put the last of the Reynolds 725 Prince Alberts on our clearance website: [url]www.dialledbikes.bigcartel.com[/url]

I've got a 853 Altitude and it's a great frame. My first steel frame, had some light-ish aluminium frames before: Giant XTC, Maxlight, Sunn something or other and the Genesis with u-turn Revs on the front is a very versatile bike. I'm proper shit on the bike, yet somehow the frame geometry and probably Revs on the front give me much more confidence when riding. It's not the lightest but with reasonable finishing kit and mostly xt/x.9, the bike weights 12.6kg so something around 27.5lbs, not light, as my Top Fuel used to weight slightly less but it does not feel slow. You have light wheels to put on the frame so the bike should feel quicker. I never tried other frames so can't comment, but the Genesis gets good reviews and I'm certainly more then happy with mine. Set the fork at 100mm and it's a good xc bike, put it at 120-130mm and it's a perfect trail hardtail. I did couple marathons on it, forks set at 120mm, climbs very well and I never felt beat up after a 3-4 hour ride, unlike on an aluminium frame. There was always something I did not like in frames I had before, however with this frame I don't feel the need to change anything as it feels just right.

Broken link Mike! Bargains here: [url= http://www.dialledbikes.bigcartel.com/ ]Prince Albert 725 clearance[/url]

[img][url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7084/7379126640_a8c34b4d1c.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7084/7379126640_a8c34b4d1c.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/13146208@N08/7379126640/ ]IMG_0452[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/13146208@N08/ ]jh_buchanan[/url], on Flickr[/img]

[img][url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7092/7379126060_09794f2bc0.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7092/7379126060_09794f2bc0.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/13146208@N08/7379126060/ ]IMG_0451[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/13146208@N08/ ]jh_buchanan[/url], on Flickr[/img]

Loving my Dialled PA (725 version)
Great handling bike, best with 120 forks than 140 IMO
Good quality, hard wearing paint finish

I run mine with 120 forks and crest hoops

The choice is making my head feel tight, I think I might implode!

However, the price of the Albert is far too tempting.....

Butttttt......

The Kili looks soooooo Good!

ARRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!

😯 ❓ 😐 ❓ 😥 ❓

I have a Soul (setup light for all day stuff) and a BFe (setup burly for shorter, rougher stuff) and both are lovely but the Bfe is my favourite frame I've ever had, I just think it's ace.

The PA is awesome, I am waiting for my new 853 frame to land in july.
Nothing wrong with the current 520 version at all, however I wanted a red one.

Does anyone know weight of 17" prince Albert frame?

17" or 15.5" Dialled PA for a 5' 9" lad? The price is right, not sure if 17" will be a little too big. I'd rather run a longer seat post than have a 17" frame, can anyone think of any problems i might have doing this i.e. over stressing the tubes??

Ragley piglet makes a great build [url= http://velo-m.co.uk/bikes/mountainbikes/ragleypiglet17inchframe.html ]linky[/url]

Those 853 fillet brazed Saracen Kili Flyer frames are a thing of beauty! I've got a Ti Genesis Altitude, which I love (and also being another Madison brand is almost certainly designed by the same person/people), but my god that Saracen is gorgeous!!! Especially in the turquoise...

May I throw a Kinesis Virsa frame into the mix. http://www.kinesisdecade.co.uk/product.php?id=2
Think you can get one for your budget.

I run mine with a RS Revelation set to 120-130 and its a great ride. Sold my Yeti 575 and having loads of fun on a hardtail again.

I know sarcin have gone up market these days but

MSSP £749.99
OUR PRICE £369.99

*TBH doubt I'd pay that for a steel frame with anyones badge on it

Orange R8 at Bikescene for £299. Perfect with a 120mm fork. Scrummy.

[url= http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5338/7406987126_66069a9206.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5338/7406987126_66069a9206.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/13146208@N08/7406987126/ ]IMG_0455[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/13146208@N08/ ]jh_buchanan[/url], on Flickr

rides rather nicely as well.

I have a PA:

MOD: Image removed due to malware

and am finding it a fantastic frame... I ride Inners\GT, local Scottish Borders routes and Cheviots. Have just dropped the forks from 140mm to 120mm and prefer it this way, although at 140mmm it was still very very good. Frame weight for my 17" (725) is 5.5lbs. Currently have Nobby Nic up front and Rocket Ron on the back.

Genuine question: what's the benefit of a PA over an Inbred? What's the head angle with 120mm Rockshox?

almost certainly designed by the same person/people

nope )

http://www.shore-lines.co.uk/chromagaperturea.html

Nice price 🙂

almost certainly designed by the same person/people

nope )

Sorry James

I [i]still[/i] love my Ti Altitude (as I did the 853 steel version before it), but there's just something about the way that Kili Flyer looks in turquoise! Partially the paint colour I'll admit, partially the mega swoopy stays, partially the fact it'd filet brazed. All irrational stuff, but I like it!!!

I have a Pure 7, which is a rung below the P7 (no sliding dropouts, ISCG or throat gusset and if course it's not 853) but I really rate it as a trail bike. It's the bike I most miss riding, which is quite an achievement when you consider that it's shed mates are a Spesh Enduro and a Wolf Ridge.

The Genesis looks great though, if it were my money right now that's where it would go.

This could be you....£250 2nd hand Soul frame for me with your same specs for fork and groupset and (almost) rims.....now that's one fine looking ride and monster performer to boot for general trail/X/C duties!

[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8016/7462539330_4559644d46_b.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8016/7462539330_4559644d46_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

[IMG] [/IMG]
My orange R8 built up. £299 frame only at bike scene is an absolute steel, great bike, can't fault it, feels just right

on the orange r8 does a 120mm fork slacken the head angle off, is the fram a 71 degree head angle?

Look very nice by the way

Sandersons Breath (pingy loverly HT steelyness)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/matt_outandabout/7021535491/

That Kili flyer frame was selling at £800, to get it for less than half price must be so tempting 😉

Well....after being battered by a alu. hardtail for a year now, and thinking about steel recently this thread has done it for me.

After checking that 90% of the components on my Orange G4 will be a direct swap....

I have just gone and ordered a 17"Prince Albert in Orange 🙂

Didn't want a full suspension again (even though my last one was a Marin alpine trail - remember them). I miss the feel of my old cro-mo steel Rockhopper.

Or is it my younger legs I miss...only time will tell, if I have done the right thing...

I like the kili too, I can't take any credit for it tho!

71 head angle on the R8. 120 Sids sort it out. Great bike feels just right and at £299 for frame only is an absolute steel 😆

dabble - Member
17" or 15.5" Dialled PA for a 5' 9" lad? The price is right, not sure if 17" will be a little too big. I'd rather run a longer seat post than have a 17" frame, can anyone think of any problems i might have doing this i.e. over stressing the tubes??

I'm 5' 9" and my 17" PA is perfect size. A normal post at about a cm on the safe side of minimum insertion is perfect for the uphills, a 15.5 would be far too wee for me. I don't have freakishly long legs either.

Well damn you all! You have just gone and made me buy a 21" kili in aqua for 334 English pounds. I'm afraid the 20" inch inbred 456 frame has just been retired for now. Can't wait to build it up. My experiment with slack angled long travel hard tails is over for now. Guess I'm just an XC boy after all!

and in true STW style i'm going to throw something else into the mix. The [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/stanton-slackline ]stanton slackline[/url]

[img] [/img]

(not my pic)
I sold my enduro to fund this and i can't get enough of it. Found for me it works best at around 130mm. The short chainstays makes it really flickable. Best bike i've ridden without doubt

Excellent choice. Just really want it to stop raining so I can try mine out on some of the local technical descents.

Leku what headset are you running. Do you have to run a specific headset, Saracen say a FSA orbit 36. I've been running a FSA the Pig on the 456 and quite liked it. Not really bothered. What do people think of the orbit headset?

I have a BFe, it's a great all round bike. It has all the chuckability I need and I'm happy to ride it all day. The Prince Albert is also a very good recommendation (I have a frame on order as when I was looking at the BFe I heard about being harsh so I ordered PAC as a backup, I will keep both). The BFe will "ask you" for more travel as it wants to play - I run 150/120 adjustables and that's perfect in my book.

This film was posted in another thread, happens to be a BFe

Inbred 56 - I think the Kili frame might include a headset. I have been fighting the urge to buy one for days!

2011 Kona Explosif frame.[url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=75351 ]£300 from CRC.[/url]

It comes with a FSA headset and a seat QR.

Rock Lobster 853 - bargain at £250...
http://www.merlincycles.com/bike-shop/frame-forks/frames-mtb/merlin-rock-lobster-frames/rock-lobster-tig-team-853-frame.html

Comes with a headset and a quick release, it's a win win! Hoping the back end is a bit kinder than the 456. Can't wait to get it on some North Yorkshire moorland singletrack.

Leku did you face the BB ? Does anyone do this anymore? Does Saracen do this already?

face BB, won't make any odds 😉

Always get a new frame faced!

why will happen if you don't? 😈

Leku - really like the look of the Kili, but it's a Saracen, which I associate with Halfrauds, which I associate with dropping my kegs and.... oh the pain. How did you get over it?

Really nice looking bike though.

Any Chromag frame for that price is a steal 😉 and at least you will have a rare bike on the trails , unlike all the others mentioned !

Just poking fun, actually quite jealous.

I haven't faced the bottom bracket and it seems fine. But then I've never had any of my frames faced.

Swingbing - I like the reverse snobbery of having a Saracen. I suspect my next full sus bike will be a Boardman. My last bikes were a Yeti 5 and a Cotic Soul, which both were recently stolen. I hoping that my having less of a 'name' bike the scrots will leave this one alone.

It rides just as nice as my old Soul Mark 2.

It's a really nice looking bike, don't think any scrots will be perturbed by the name and they'll see it coming a mile off in that paint job! Think they're more interested in the much more saleable parts than the frame itself.

Looking at the geometry and comparing 19" versions, looks like the kili has a 4" shorter top tube than the soul? Seems a huge difference to me?