[Closed] What hardcore hardtail?

PS forgot to mention would be not looking for a full bike so frame only options please.

Orange Sub Zero. Built around a 150mm fork but is comfortable up to 160mm. Not the nicest bike to climb, but absolutely hilarious on everything else.

Blue pig, 456, Bfe, Pipedream, Dialled PA,
choose the colour you like and go for that one 😀

What do you mean by hardcore? LT trail bike or a proper DH hardtail?

BFe but would go for something bigger than the 16" if you're tall as I found mine too short even at 5'9".

Carbon 456!
Just finished mine 150mm and at just over 23lbs its gonna go well.

Buy my Nicolai, 64-65 degree head angle with 180-200mm forks, the definition of hardcore hardtail...

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Blue Pig +1

Ragley Blue Pig - Most "allround" IMO, of the "hardcore hardtails", along with th one one 456. Long chainstays, not very compact, more of a typical steel, trail hardtail on 'roids. Dialled PA would go here too.

NS core/Surge (I have a surge 2, reet loads of fun, my BMXers body can cope with 3+ hour rides on it pretty easily too). Short chainstay (which is also adjustable, so SS compatible), not too slack seat angle (so good for putting the saddle up), no doubt harshest riding, very compact, an all round bike as far as a BMXer/DJer/Downhiller is concerned. Very playful due to being compact and short chainstays.

The NS core bikes are pretty much the only off the shelf complete hardcore hardtails. 160mm forks, dual ring, short stem, wide bear, big tyres, etc, etc.

Charge Blender, much like the NS surge, not quite as playful, but has a slack seat angle which can make seat up climbing a problem.

Cotic BFe best of both extremes IMO. More capable of day rides than the surge and blender, but not as capable as a pig. less playful than the blender and surge but more playful than the pig.

What do you want out of this bike? All day rides and bouldering over stuff or playful couple of hour rides with a more exciting bike underneath you?

chameleon?

Santa Cruz Chameleon
Pace RC305

I've had both in 16" format. Either, with 140mm forks will get you down anything*, while having you grinning like an escaped pyschopath whose just discovered a chainsaw

*going up may not be so much fun

Evil Sovereign. If you can get an older 853 they are fantastic. Im sure the modern ones are good too.

Ty for the suggestions so far. I thought I should have been more specific!

Looking for something that can be ridden up and down, with the bias towards the down. For three-ish hour blasts through the woods and maybe the occasional trail centre. No need to be comfortable for all day riding as that is already catered for.

Basically something other than a 456. Not that i have something against those, just looking for some more options.

Defo chameleon then.

No contest. Has to be a Chameleon

+1 for the Surge if you're going to be doing a lot of XXXC riding. It eats long days for breakfast.

I really like the geometry on the Ragley stuff, but really, in your position, I'd see if I could try a few different options and see what you get on with.

Another vote for a Blue Pig

My surge-

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Through these woods, is it simply windy sigletrack with some rocks and roots chucked in or is it going to involve some drops/berm/kickers too?

UphillCursing...Pace 305

I've got one for sale if you're interested 😉

@ Badlywired...... just make and models really. I can then have a quick look at them and when one comes up on ebay or classifieds I will be ready to pounce.

Sanderson Blitz...

@ Twodogs--- looking at the RRP for the revamped model I think yours might be out of my price range.

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/cotic-bfe-first-ride-with-pics

Dialled Alpine is a reet giggle.

Lots of great options mentioned above however I'm going to join the suggestions of the BFe as the benchmark.

BFe but would go for something bigger than the 16" if you're tall as I found mine too short even at 5'9".

I'm also 5'9" and have the small BFe. It's ideal for what I wanted it for (given I already have a medium Soul for general riding) but if I was building one up more general purpose I'd definitely have gone with the medium instead. My Soul and BFe are about the same weight but the Soul does climb better due to the extra TT length.

Ragley, either the BluePig or the Ti, for the more radical geometry. You have to ride it a certain way, but if that way is already your style of riding, then it's quite an amazing frame.

I'm 5ft 11" and very happy thrashing a small ti version.

the new Chumba HX1 frames have just arrived. £399 with EBB 🙂

[url= http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5218/5506295552_15eba0dd57.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5218/5506295552_15eba0dd57.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/93388219@N00/5506295552/ ]HX1 and HX2[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/93388219@N00/ ]srbwilson[/url], on Flickr

I went for a mmmbop. Lovely, same as the big but a few pound lighter.

the new Chumba HX1 frames have just arrived. £399 with EBB

Hmm. My utter contempt for a certain Mr Kang should prevent me from being interested; however, there's no harm in asking. What's the BB set-up? Pics? Built around what fork travel? Geometry? Rear axle type? Headtube size? Colour/finish options? Can I get it without giving any money to Alan?

My Planet X 🙂

Another vote for Blue Pig.

Better than the Dialled PA it replaced.
Built with, short stem/wide bar, Pikes, strong but reasonable weight wheel and good brakes it's very hard to beat IMHO.

Cove Stiffee may also be worth a look (I have one and love it). Good sizing options,

Three fish, don't believe all you read about Alan, he is not all that bad, but i guess you have made your own mind up.

The HT on the HX1 is a tapered zero stack type. Frame comes with an EBB. HA is 68 with a 140mm fork. More geo info can be seen here [url] http://www.progressive-bikes.co.uk/hx1.html [/url]

Axle is a standard 135mm QR with a nice neat replaceable drop out that looks clean when removed for for running single speed. Colours are ano black, ano silver and painted white. All your money will come to me 🙂

Buy my Nicolai, 64-65 degree head angle with 180-200mm forks, the definition of hardcore hardtail...

Is that a real bike? Or a scale model? That TT is throwing my perspective out!

Those TT you mean? It's definitely real. 😀

If you're looking at long rides then personally I'd go steel frame. Know there's more to it than material alone but some of the harder core aluminium bikes are pretty harsh on long rides. Maybe I'm too use to full sus but my mmmbop really beats me up on long rides. I'd probably go pig.

Three fish, don't believe all you read about Alan, he is not all that bad, but i guess you have made your own mind up.

It's my personal (albeit virtual) experience of the man upon which I base my feelings, not any kind of heresay. Anyway, that's nowt to do with you. I shouldn't have mentioned it; my apologies. Anyway...

Thanks for the link. Is it a large frame in the pictures? Looks kind of funky built up.

I found some bumph about the EBB on the blog pages (from 2010). Do you know how they've faired in terms of reliability/slipping and so on?

another vote for the surge. Mine is lovely 🙂

Had a few, DS1,Sub Zero,Stiffee, but you can't beat a Chameleon, I will never part with mine.

another vote for the Dialled Alpine. I replaced a 456 with an Alpine from classifieds here and its comfy for all day XC rides (will be using it at bristol bikefest and SITS) but is a riot to ride and encourages you to ride like a kid/loon/hooligan. Got 140mm Revelations on it, Pikes might be more suited to the image but the revs work well and help keep the overall build weight down.

Never known the EBB to slip, in fact quite the opposite unless you grease them well.

The built up pic is a large, its one of the guys on this forums bike.

I sold my Ragley Bluepig and just built a 456 Carbon, same size but the 456 handles alot better and i can sling it around more and get round nasty tight corners easier, the Bluepig just felt big and numb, here is a link to my new hardcore build, pics top and bottom of page 1

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=142717

I have a Stiffee with a Domain up front. Great fun - my first choice bike at the mo'.

I just got a BFe. Swapped from having an Orange Crush. Very Impressed and runs well with 140mm forks.

i only have experience of the DB Alpine and 456. both great chuckable bikes.

I had a Pace Rc 305 XCAM for a while, running 140mm Pikes. That was nice. It wasn't as nice as the [b]Chromag Samurai[/b] that replaced it, which is the most wikid awsum fing eva. 🙂

Blue Pig for sure, amazing frames once you work out how to ride them to get the best out of them.

Mine:
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always at the top of my list is a whyte 19 or a nicolai argon fr ! 😉 oh yes i own both for a raw hardtail bashing from time to time 😆

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IT HAS to be the dialed alpine. does everything well and is enough of a hooligan to keep up with the fully sprung lot on the dh's!
runs 140mm pikes megga!

Orange P7..I run 140mm fox talas (never use the talas option and wish i'd bought the floats), a 27.2 pure racing dropper post, stans arch rims on hope hubs with maxxis 2.3 tubless highrollers (bit wide for arch rims really). cracking bike for everything.

All the cool kids ride the Cotic BFe.

I've had mine for about a year now and take it on all day rides (forks wound down to 120-130ish) as well as trips to the local hooligan park - Aston Hill (defintiely 160!). It does really well. Took it to Inners and Glentress too last year.

Very impressed.

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I ride the medium and I'm 6'2"

i love my ns surge.suberb all round aggro ht.

Blue pig for sure, had a go recently bloody good fun. Two wheel drifts with feet on the pedals 😀 Climbs really well too, me I can't wait to get one this year. Good luck.

OP - are you more or less confused for reading this?

Without being critical of any individual respondent, the answers seem a) subjective b) not much consensus on what a hardcore hardtail is

(although I am pretty sure a BFe with big forks would be)

Where does trail hardtail end and hardcore hardtail start - or is that down to the rider?

How hardcore can you get on a hardtail? Is there a limit or is it just the skill of the rider?

That said I am pretty certain my Whyte 905 would break before a BFe, and I would break before either.

Did anyone mention Saracen? My knee jerk reaction from yonks ago would be urgh - but they have gone upmarket £££ and are advertising in a way that makes me think not for old farts like me.

charge blender, not too bad on the ups, good on the flat ace on the downs!

Im alittle confused as to why not many people have said Cove stiffee. Having owned one, AWESOMENESS!!!!! TO AN EPIC DEGREE!!!

Until some scrotum stole it.

Have I voted for my Transition TransAM yet?

Thanks guys all good stuff. A good spread of opinions and bikes not to mention pricing.

Have a better idea of what is out there now and will start the vigil for "the one".

I thought there would be more 456 votes having seen the never ending threads on here. What i did find odd was that the Summer season version with the slacker head angle did not get a mention.

At the moment leaning towards a boring old sheep like 456 in 18 inch....Lets see what I end up with!

I used to have a 456 summer season in 18" Awesome for going down hill on, not so good at going up. Also the BB rusted out.

Upgraded to Cove stiffee. in a different league to On one imho.

+1 for the chumba hx1 - mine's the large black one built up with talas 36's on Si's website. Build quality and finish is excellent, I can't stop looking at it! Loads of standover and a lot more comfortable than you'd think. Normally run mine at 130mm but let it out to 160mm for big rocky lakes descents.

Don't think you can go wrong with many of these tbh just important to get the right fit. I have a chameleon, a new hx1, a ti456 and did have a carbon 456 and soon to have a blender. All good.

Bikes are great 🙂

in my family daughters rated
Santa Cruz Chamelon
Dialled Alpine
Dialled PA
Orange p7
Cove Stiffee
disliked
orange sub zero
on one 456
planetx ( think it was the graphics)

TBH as above all down to rider/what you want/are you DH or messing about and so

Personally I liked the alpine with 2.5 tryes but prefered the PA with 140 mm forks just a bit more lively and all dayer for me.

.

What ever you choose enjoy

I have a PA which I use from everything from all day xc rides to DH tracks, uplift days, the alps. I think its great, but then probably most of the others on the list are a hoot as well.

Bit of a left field choice and will probably get flamed!

Saracen Zen 631 steel is worth a look.

I'd been watching eBay for weeks for a Summer 456 and got sick of tired looking frames going for more than I wanted to pay when the Zen went through. It was the steel that swayed me never having had a steel bike and glad I did. Ran it with a 160 fork to start with, was probably more than intended but what was the worst that could happen! Got a 140 on now and although it's not as composed downhill it's a good all day bike.

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Allo mate buy my 2010 Orange Crush which is seriously well kitted out and is a serious contender for uphills as well as such fun on the downs. I have just had it kitted out with 2011 bling because I had the front end stolen in London, the bike has done next to no off road so is in cracking condition and the new stuff is untouched.

Follow this link for spec and price (but I'm open to offers on the price)

If you want to use tapered forks on steel frame, want something slacker than most but not quite as slack as the slackest - 66.5-67 at 140, can fit 2x10 chainsets, cen tested at 160mm, is just over 5lbs and sized for trail riding with a bias toward the du stuff, look up the new 853 triple butted+631 xx44 headtube genesis alpitude. I can plug it shamelessly as I dont work there anymore, but its a ripper and not that well known, only came into stock in Jan.