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Why is the mountain bike market so depressed?
Sporting success
Cycling in the UK has had a renaissance over the last decade with its national and international profile being raised through the efforts of the British Cycling team, with stars such as Victoria Pendleton and Chris Hoy cleaning up on the track at the Olympics, and Bradley Wiggins winning England's first ever Tour de France. This success, initially on the track, was largely due to the increase of funding from Sport England, followed by the creation of Team SKY and its aggressive recruitment of British stars by Sir Brailsford. All this increased sporting success and its subsequent media exposure has brought cycling back into the public conscious.
Around the same time that Sport England started seriously investing in cycling the UK government launched the cycle to work scheme to incentivise people to adopt sustainable transport as part of its Green Transport plan. These two factors among other such as the congestion charge in London, have had a huge effect on the popularity of cycling.
Retail sector
The UK has seen a substantial leap in sales within the cycling sector from around 2.3 million bikes in 2002, to 3.7 million in 2003, where it stayed for the next decade (see graph). More impressively the value of all this activity has risen from £600 million in 2002, to £1.15 billion in 2012, an increase of 44%. The “great recession” of 2008 does appear to have had a small negative effect in 2008-9 on sales, however the common trend of recession increasing cycle sales seems to have had an overall positive effect with a big rise between 2009 and 2010.
With nearly all retailers noticing that a lot of sales being diverting from mountain to road bikes, can it be true that are our national athletes having this much effect on our buying habits or is there more behind the decline of mountain biking?
Mountain biking has now established itself as an Olympic sport, is receiving money from Sport England, and millions have been spent sustainable facilities such as the seven stanes in Scotland, yet in terms of medals is being beaten by the far less accessible discipline of track cycling, why? It could be the increase in salaries for our home grown talent if they ride road compared to MTB, with it being reported that Sir Bradley Wiggins currently earns approx £1.5 million per annum.
Technological revoloution
Technology has been a great driver in cycling and non more so than in mountain biking. The sport has evolved from the heavy “clunkers” of the late 70’s, to the first dedicated frames from the likes of Tom Richey and others in the 80’s; then the lycra clad weight weenies of the 90’s pushed the technological boundries and started to introduce materials from road cycling such as carbon fibre. The 00’s brought suspension and drew from motocross and Dakar racing to give us pedalling platforms and high speed compression circuits. So what next?
Gary Fisher floated an idea in the 90’s that a bigger wheel size would be better for mountain biking and with the help of Trek bikes he started producing a line of bigger wheeled bikes. These were slow to take off even with favourable reviews and many obvious benefits.
Mountain bikes had evolved to a point where they could be ridden all day in comfort and up and down virtually any terrain due to their complex suspension systems and low weight. It was becoming increasingly difficult to make a bike more capable without using fragile and expensive materials like carbon fibre to reduce weight and gain performance advantages, so manufacturers started to look again at alternatives such as the wheel size.
Bikes with 29 inch wheels were definitely more capable yet the public didn’t like the looks and were still hung up on old negative theories such as slow handling and flimsy wheels, which had been ironed out in the decade of development that they had received. The bike industry was desperate to push 29ers as the next greatest thing yet the public wasn’t buying, so after looking into the cycling archive another wheel size was found, 650b. This was similar to a 26in wheel in looks, yet was slighter bigger so could benefit from the investment made in marketing the 29 inch wheel size and its associated benefits, and as everyone knows if you’re unsure what to buy, go for the middle option! This could be the perfect stepping stone for people wanting to try out a new wheel size, however, manufacturers didn’t want to produce tyres, forks, frames for three wheel size options so thought they would force the issue and swiftly dropped 26in in the belief that everyone would go out and buy a new 650b or 29er mountain bike.
So why have we all not bought into the new wheel sizes?
Now as with energy, money cannot just be created (unless you're a banker), it must change form. Currently there are thousand of customers who would dearly love to own the new latest greatest 650b or 29 mountain bike, their main problem is cash. What they have done in years gone by is sell their 2 year old bike, frame, fork or wheels on Ebay,Singletrackworld, pinkbike etc and release the cash for their next bike related purchase. BUT, and this is the crux, as the bike companies have done such a good job informing us that 26inch wheels are useless and old fashioned, so much so that they have stopped producing them, nobody wants 26 inch wheeled bikes and the used market has collapsed. There is a huge amount of money tied up which is proving extremely difficult to release. This has left a lot of people with very expensive bikes that they cannot sell even if they wanted to. I have recently seen an extremely capable 2013 Orange 5 pro which retailed at £3000 being offered for only £1000, a ridiculous depreciation of 65%.
Bike shops are still seeing moderate or static growth at present and this appears to mainly in the road sector. I put a lot of this down to the fact that a lot of mountain bikers are unwilling to sell their expensive bike for peanuts and have decided to keep hold of it and treat themselves and join this new cycling craze, road cycling.
In my opinion mountain bikers have a few options. The new wheel size of 27.5 is very marginally grippier and faster so there really is no need to buy one if you currently ride a good 26 inch wheeled bike, if you have the 2012 mountain bike of the year how bad can it be now? There is also a large amount of very cheap 26 inch components for sale to keep your bike running great.
If you are considering a new bike then I can heartily recommend a 29er, they are stable, quick steering, roll over stuff better and are faster allround. Its a shame that customers are just now getting used to the idea of "big wheels are best" at the same time that the bike industry is again trying to narrow the amount of products they produce and are reducing the number 29ers in favour of the “next big thing”, FAT bikes!
Your third option is to go with the flow and buy a road bike, it will get you fitter, last longer and its far more accessible as we all have roads outside our front door. However they are just about to have a revolution regards disc brakes on road bikes, so if you want to avoid all this controversy then how about a new sport, golf anyone?
It's Hora, he pisses right about with market forces.
Welcome to the rest of the forum.
Also, what did the kittens do to you, eh? You heartless bastard.
Well Chad, you sure put a lot of effort into that but
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Why is the mountain bike market so depressed?
We're skint.
Your problem is in the title.
I remember when we said mountain community.
It doesn't matter what you ride. Anyone who is fixated enough to worry about that gas missed the point entirely.
none of my mates have given up mountain biking but most have stopped buying mountain bikes, they have realised what they have will do and have been through the road bike, nicer road bike, more comfortable road bike cycle in the last 3-4 years.
A lot more people have taken up road, rather than MTB though.
Happy with my 26 inch wheeled mtb ,can`t justify a new one and not bothered about it being grippier or faster mind you it is now 13 years old
Oh and as far as kitten-killing posts go, fair play if you've written all that yourself from scratch!
Just to light the touchpaper, for 95% of folk that kerb-crawl being a 'mountain-biker', 26" is just fine.
*runs away*
It says see graph but I can't see a graph. Vexing.
[quote=mcnultycop ]It says see graph but I can't see a graph. Vexing.
You mean that was just a cut-and-paste? Looks like no one else could be bothered reading it all either.
It says see graph but I can't see a graph. Vexing.
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Ok, did anybody read this?
Ok, did anybody read this?
I'm halfway through 'War & Peace' so no, I didn't.
Does it matter? Just argue FFS 🙂
If your market assessment is correct (I've honestly no idea), then IMO:
What has happened to mountain biking is that it became a market - or rather they marketi[b]Z[/b]ed it
They've ****ed about, changing fundamental things that made next year's frames incompatible with last year's parts & spares - they've gambled on people continuing to buy the new shit, and the retooling has increased costs that they needed to recoup, so prices rise.
There's now so much bullshit marketing around that I suspect newbies are put off by it all, and at least some of us old folk are pissed off by it
They took people for granted and they ****ed it up
(and the signs seem to be that road bikes are next on the target list - I'm in favour of disc brakes but wait & see how many new hub standards wo get through in 2-3 years)
There is no 'community', apart from the one we make ourselves.
The rest is just people trying to sell you stuff.
Shut up Bear
You're wrong
They all got so depressed reading that sh1t they've turned into hardcore macrame fans.
Has the posh gits castle fell into the river yet?
Joe public see Olympic & TdF success on the telly
Wannabes buy road bikes
Road bikes don't get you dirty
Road bikes are easier to maintain & stuff lasts 10x as long as on an mtb
You can get a decent road bike for £400
£400 mountain bike is basically a BSO
Shut up BearYou're wrong
*sobs*
£400 mountain bike is basically a BSO
I reckon for your average cyclist, you can get an enjoyable and perfectly capable mtb for £600
All my own work and if you want the graphs then ask nicely
sobs*
Sorry
Man hug?
In the eye of the greater public, MTB is seen as dangerous and it's our road and track guys who dominate the pro sport rather than MTB - so that's where the newbie riders have gone to IMO. Also, a road bike is far better for commuting which is another growth area as far as I can see.
As for me, for the first time since 1995 I have no MTB.
I MTBd so much for so long that I slightly overdid it and got myself a road bike and got into that instead. I've also broken 3 bones since 2007 falling off my MTB which has rather put me off.
As a result I've been riding MTB less and less. Then 27.5 came out and spares for my beautiful and expensive Soul looked scarce and the value of the thing has fallen through the floor so I decided to get rid rather than leaving it unused and potentially in a couple of years unsellable...
I think the MTB has badly shot itself in the foot with the whole 27.5 thing - it was obviously cynical after 29 didn't quiet work how they expected. Their biggest misjudgement though was doing it at a time when earnings are static and we're all balls deep in debt - and expecting us to be happy to replace our 26ers en masse (especially when they have such a low 2nd hand value) has been a massive fail on their part in terms of understanding customers' needs and willingness to pay...
All my own work and if you want the graphs then ask nicely
Show me the mother **** graphs you god damned * ******
Every post makes me ashamed I'm adding to this thread.
But yes, a hug would be nice.
Because it's really ****ing muddy and you'd have to be weird to enjoy it. 😉
disc brakes on road bikes is to road biking what 650B did to MTB'ing, Only the people on Forums give a shit, the other 97.5% of the population dont give a shit,
MTB'ing has moved on over the past 10 - 15 years, to ride decent trails you have to be fortunate enough to live where there are decent trails. We used to ride from our door locally in the woods through the valleys up the hills but as bikes have evolved to cater for the more challenging terrain it has made riding them locally a chore, I've found that if i want to ride anything decent i've got to pack my car up and drive somewhere, which is great..... then you have to drive home.... which is a chore.
There's a lot to said for pushing your bike out of the door and nipping off 40 miles in the time it might take you to drive to Wales, or Scotland for instance.
I;m not taking anything away from the Roadies BUT Rachel Atherton has done plenty for UK cycling, And Steve Peat amongst others.
Ok go to the Redbull Best of Bike 2015 video playlist. Watch the two BMX guys, then DH at Whistler. The DH guys just look a bit gay really.
Does anyone here actually know the state of the industry? Is there a genuine decline? If there is, is it a reversion to the mean after a succesful phase? It certainly doesn't feel like an industry in distress.
I think the industry's thinking is certainly diseased but I'm not convinced that's led to industry-wide problems. Individual bike owners have been shafted, aye, but plenty of others have drunk the kool-aid and queued up to buy the latest "standard" as soon as it came out (you have to; if you leave it 5 minutes it'll be obsolete)
rOcKeTdOg - Member£400 mountain bike is basically a BSO
This is rubbish, though.
£200, not a BSO
http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/calibre-crag-mountain-bike-p349189
£250, not a BSO
http://www.halfords.com/cycling/bikes/mountain-bikes/carrera-vengeance-mens-mountain-bike-2015
£250, not a BSO
http://www.decathlon.co.uk/rockrider-520-mountain-bike-id_8293188.html
TBF what would be a problem, would be if potential new riders ask for advice and get told "You can't get a proper bike for £400".
'They took people for granted and they ****ed it up'.
Absolutely spot on.
And not one dissenting voice in the whole of the British bike media.
The DH guys just look a bit gay really.
Asshat
What about there are so many standards that the public is holding out to see what it settles on. I mean road bikes are all much of a muchness in comparison to mountain bikes.
sirromj - Member
Ok go to the Redbull Best of Bike 2015 video playlist. Watch the two BMX guys, then DH at Whistler. The DH guys just look a bit gay really.
THis
You would say that 😀
As above I blame the manufacturers/media, they've said we should have the latest version of bike because it keeps sales fluid. Trouble is only so many people want to ride off-road, and components can be replaced as they wear out,so when said market is saturated how do you keep sales fluid? Reinvent what we're already riding, make components incompatible with each other,it all gets rather tiresome,I just want to ride my bike!!
They took people for granted and they **** it up
This.
I had a very poor experience with trying to buy a new 2012 (ish) Pivot Mach 5.7 C last year from one particular online shop......the sales dude was so insistent almost to the point that he virtually refused to sell me the bike on the grounds that it would be impossible to buy parts in 12-24 months & he was "doing me a favour".
Long story short bought the same bike from another shop & that nunpty lost a sale because he was a d1ck & forgot to listen & respect the customers needs & wants.
I'll certainly NEVER buy anything from that large ish SE dealer & I'm VERY happy with my new bike. I've managed to build up a well specced bike by not buying into the latest fad. If I had, the price would have near another grand!
bearnecessities - Member
You would say that
😉
whens the film out 😯
We already have two different road disc standards (Flat Mount, anyone?).
Roadie standargeddeon ahoy.
even now, I'm guessing the majority of sales are to established riders, road and mtb (once you take out kids' bikes anyway).disc brakes on road bikes is to road biking what 650B did to MTB'ing, Only the people on Forums give a shit, the other 97.5% of the population dont give a shit,
I'm not a roadie, though I've done more of that type of miles this year than mtb. I'm sorted for road bikes though, and my only upcoming plans are for a FORK that'll take a disc brake once the axle standards are sorted (if forks are still compatible with current tapered headtubes, that is - if not I'll do without)
I'm not going to buy a mtb any time soon - not even a frame, which is what I've tended to do in the past. I've no idea what wheelsize, hub and BB standard, frame geometry, fork offset (FFS!), mech mount, .... will dominate in the next few years. You might say it shouldn't matter to me and I should be happy with what I buy regardless of market trends, but then the logical extension of that is to question whether I need a new bike at all - they can't have it both ways. Also, presumably there's no second-hand "market" for my current 26er frame with 69 degree headangle, so I've been bitten there already as well. (You may be right about bike evolution leaving me and my local riding behind, too)
If I'm typical of the demographic (middle-aged whiny cockbags with disposable income?), then they're ****ed and they'll stay that way until they stop this shit
😯 why so much change ...............I think next years niche is 120mm to 130mm travel 29ers
MTB'ing has moved on over the past 10 - 15 years, to ride decent trails you have to be fortunate enough to live where there are decent trails.
Has somebody stolen them in the meantime?
If I'm typical of the demographic (middle-aged whiny cockbags with disposable income?), then they're **** and they'll stay that way until they stop this shit
This +1 Million
All the stupidity they've pulled over the last few years and continue to do so put me right off buying a new bike. Rode my MTB twice last year, my road bike almost daily!
[quote=xyeti ] We used to ride from our door locally in the woods through the valleys up the hills but as bikes have evolved to cater for the more challenging terrain it has made riding them locally a chore,Buy a "less evolved" bike.
Yes, too many niches aswell.
THey don't even race anymore either?! They got rid of 4x and replaced it with Enduro - another time trial down a hill, where the riders dress like they should be riding a moto x bike, and do tricks off jumps like they should be on a BMX.
MTBing is ****ed if it carries on like this; it no longer knows what it is. Seven grand full sussers, various wheel sizes, front suspension, back suspension, suspension tuning, skills courses, test rides, upto 33 gears etc. etc.
Too much rubbish - people just need to start riding bikes again. Preferably single speeds or fat bikes.
Honestly, if what the mountain biking INDUSTRY is up to upsets you enough that you'd rather not go mountain biking, then I suspect you don't really like mountain biking!
Anyone quit listening to music because they don't like the music INDUSTRY?
The only problem with the OP's assessment is that the evidence isn't there. I think that mtb sales were starting to stagnate [b]before[/b] all the stuff about wheel sizes really took off.. Perhaps the industry mucked about with wheel sizes because they were trying to stimulate a flatlining market.
I agree with the people saying road bikes last longer. My 2007 Bianchi Nirone is still going strong and I've only changed a few things (like saddle, stem, tyres and pedals) for personal choice/comfort.
But in that time I've had 4 MTBs and replaced loads of worn-out components.
My 8 year old road bike is all I need for the 1,500-2000 miles it does each year and all it's really needed in that time is some tyres, tubes and a good clean/lube every so often. The 20 gears still work as good as when I first got them whereas my MTBs have gone from 18 to 9 to 10 speed and numerous mechs.
Road biking and commuting are also straight out the front door rather than a 30 - 60 minute drive for something fun and all I need is a helmet, pair of shorts, pair of shoes, a jersey, a bottle and a Twix so I can go from sofa to riding in under ten mins.
I don't think MTBing is on the decline (just go to FOD car park at the weekend and compare it to 10 years ago), I just think people are starting to shop differently by using online stores and direct sales companies. And then moaning that the LBS won't lend them a tool, fix a bike for biscuits or match the price CRC, Merlin, etc offer their mass bought or grey imports.
Tom KP.
It's an image problem exacerbated by the rise of road cycling.
Mountain bikers = fat power rangers riding overgrown bmx bikes
Road bikers = toned Olympian shaved hunks
Mountain bikers = fat face, howies, fox
Road bikers = Rapha, Paul Smith, Gore
djglover - Member
It's an image problem exacerbated by the rise of road cycling.Mountain bikers = fat power rangers riding overgrown bmx bikes
Road bikers = toned Olympian shaved hunksMountain bikers = fat face, howies, fox
Road bikers = Rapha, Paul Smith, Gore
Partly this aswell.
Tell someone you just popped out for 80 miles on the road bike earlier, and they'll be incredibly impressed and probably want to feel your toned glutes.
Tell them you rode the "red" route at llangdegla and nailed all the drop offs and didn't put your foot down once; they'll laugh you out the door.
Superb post OP!
Was thinking about this yesterday funnily enough. You've articulated some of my thoughts much better than I can, however.
I'm not against change but change for changes sake to simply relieve people of money is not what MTBing is about to me.
As an owner of two 26" bikes I almost feel the industry is forcing me into a corner.
I think my mindset really hardened after spending a whole afternoon and evening browsing retrobike etc. for the first time recently.
I knew there was a sizable amount of people wanting to get back to the simpler (better? ? ) days of biking but the amount of people, ingenuity and passion people are putting into bikes that make my 2010 model fs look like something from the future was a real eye opener.
I perfectly content to run both bikes I own until I simply can no longer get the pasts for them.
I know I'm not alone in this but I am always on the look out for "obsolete" spares now, new or otherwise, just to store in the shed until needed. Some cracking deals to be had out there to the point where I've almost bought some complete bikes as they are so ridiculously cheap only because they have 26" wheels! Madness, utter madness.
I've said this before on here, I ran Windows XP for ages after most before had gone onto Vista etc simply because it did everything I wanted it to. I fully intend doing the mountain bike equivalent.
3 wheel sizes, now + sizes, fatties, boost...... Just goes on and on.
Even my almost infinitely convertible Hope hubs can't keep up now...
Anyway, back to looking for bargains on "obsolete" bike parts. 😉
And breath...........
I think these were the turning point....
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Or maybe these
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Surely this is the turning point?
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Nah, the turning point is the headstock.
🙂
Not tapered, obviously.
Beaten too it,
Damn it!
£400 mountain bike is basically a BSO
Well...I guess the Pinnacle Ramin 1 is kinda bike shaped.
Ninfan, NO, i dont think they have been stolen, well not where i live anyhow but i cant speak for where you live?
My local trails are boring, they are pretty featureless and short. A drive to the Peaks on the other hand are challenging, difficult in fact and requires a certain ammount of skill to complete. Certain trail centres offer the kind of attraction that sees their car parks fairly busy,
Scotroutes, i could ride a boring bike on boring trails or i could try and continue to challenge myself, i'd struggle riding some of the places i ride though on a less evolved bike, which is kind of what i was getting at.
It's great riding round on a Singlespeed bike, its about the most basic bike i have, more basic than my BMX but i'm not sure i'd complete the Mega Avalnche on it or the BMX, I couldnt really see it or my Orange hardtail lasting at Bike Park Wales or a fortnight in the Alps, So i built my MTB with what i would be riding in mind, A bit like my CX bike, i'm not riding it as it was intended so i put some road tyres on it as i'm riding on featureless tarmac that doesn't require Knobbly tyres.
THey don't even race anymore either?! They got rid of 4x and replaced it with Enduro - another time trial down a hill, where the riders dress like they should be riding a moto x bike, and do tricks off jumps like they should be on a BMX.MTBing is **** if it carries on like this; it no longer knows what it is. Seven grand full sussers, various wheel sizes, front suspension, back suspension, suspension tuning, skills courses, test rides, upto 33 gears etc. etc.
Too much rubbish - people just need to start riding bikes again. Preferably single speeds or fat bikes.
Pfffffft. 33 gears? It's all about the 11.
As Northwind alludes to, the MTB industry is NOT in distress. I'm working on some data round this as we speak, once its ready for publication, I'll share links.
Bike and component brands are seeing an uplift in sales by both volume and revenues - several key drivers including a diagonal shift from road to MTB once at 2nd bike purchase stage, a maturing of the demographic and a different set of aspirations from riders.
There are a lot of underperforming bike shops with poor business models and bad retail sales skills. Resultantly they survive by selling more of what is "mainstream" at that time. Up to recently, that's been road, but market trends further up the chain and internationally suggest the growth curve is levelling.
Sadly the stores doing badly, and reps that are doing badly, share bad news among themselves and consumers rather than focusing on growth. I've heard a rep from a distribution co go in a retailer and his opening gambit was "how are you guys hanging in there, trade is tough at the moment". Who's going to be confident to buy off him? He needs urgent retraining or sacking. Same for retailers undermining consumer confidence. Tell a good news story or quit.
Jaysus, I'm not reading all that! Executive Summary please...
Well I bought a new bike tail end of 2015 that didn't arrive til end of November, my previous mtb being 5 years old and ex demo. Other than upgrading consumables when they wear out I can't see me rushing to buy anything mtb related. I seem to be quite easy on parts, I'm only small and my components seem to last ages compared to my mates, I put this down to me being sub 8 stone and possibly ride style. Prices have gotten crazy which is off putting especially when coupled with ever changing standards. I only have boost on the rear with my bronson but not upfront wich caused me to hesitate and consider waiting, but my old bike needed the entire drive train replacing plus new tires, brake pads and more if I looked at it properly, poor thing had been abused and neglected, and I'm unlikely to change the wheels anyway, only the tires when needed. Tbh I can't tell any difference between 26 and 27.5 and boost v non boost.p Unfortunately I can't sell my old 26er as it has an undesirable wheel size and needs a lot of tlc so it's sat taking up space in my garage, I may attempt to sell it for peanuts preferably to a kid. My bronson is too much bike for what is available on my doorstep, and the 'mud shelf' above the bottom bracket is being problematic but my cx is at times lacking so I have a yearning for a hard tail, however the constantly changing standards have me stalling, especially as the hts I like are at the 1-1.5k price point and you can get decent fs at that price point and I have two bikes that can ride the local stuff perfectly well one being over and the other under biked.
Long ramble cut short if my old bike didn't need so much replacing I wouldn't have bothered buying a new bike until the standards settle.
Downshep - 'Golf is boring'.
Cheers. Will ride what I have.....
hellz85: Long ramble cut short if my old bike didn't need so much replacing I wouldn't have bothered buying a new bike until the standards settle.
Agree with your post but just quoted that bit above as I think it cuts to the chase pretty well.
Will bike standards ever settle? Probably not but I can actually deal with that.
Its the marked changes year on year that can render good kit "obsolete" in some eyes. Whether we agree with that or not, it will affect resale price.
Added to that it can render a good and recent frame into a perceived cul-de-sac. Tapered steerers etc etc.
Anyway, yep, agree with your post, just concerned about the speed of changing standards and the manufacturers motives behind it.
When exactly does a standard even apply anymore, seriously, whats the "standard" bottom bracket type, or even frame fitment for it. Ditto hubs, and a host of other things.
I think most MTB parts now can be put categories at best. Standards are almost becoming a thing of the past. I have practically every Hope hub adapter known to man laying around but that's still irrelevant on newer frames. I dont mean thats Hopes fault by the way!
I've bought 2 new bikes in the last 2 1/2 years. One being a last run of 26" bikes and something I'd wanted for a long time, the other a 29" race bike I never knew I wanted.
At no point do I feel the bike industry has taken me for a ride (pun intended) or done me over. I can still get plenty of parts for the 26" bike it will last me another couple of years easy.
Compared to 10-15 years ago bikes are so much better, I can have a long travel bike that comes in under 30lb and rides uphill well enough to take on big adventures, my light XC bike is actually tough enough to ride without flexing and bending all over the place thanks to things like thru axles.
Anyway, yep, agree with your post, just concerned about the speed of changing standards*** and the manufacturers motives behind it.
Leaked pics from some recent bike industry meetings
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Mr Jive will be along shortly with a pic of a fox and Frank Bruno...
Lots of standards is a pain but not changing anything isn't clever either
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We are seeing a readjustment in cycling genre preference. The novelty has worn off MTB, and its decline from the mainstream is inevitable.
Road biking is fundamentally cooler than MTB. MTB arrived in the public consciousness briefly as an exciting novelty item. However, once you get over the stupid neon stuff and the "wow, he did a skid" factor, MTB is basically adult BMX* crossed with rambling**. In the past few decades, people have tried to make it look interesting to a lay audience. They have failed. No MTB discipline has proved capable of being televised in a faintly interesting way. Even Redbull Rampage, the stupidest and most extreme I'm A Celebrity, Get Me Out Of Here version of MTB is utterly, utterly boring. After going "wow, he did a [s]skid[/s] no-handed superman seatgrap triple frontflip", the average viewer waits another three minutes to see whether the guy with the brain damage and the facial tattoos will actually fall into the ravine and die, and then wanders off to play Angry Birds, because it is more interesting.
Meanwhile, to hear MTB-nerds chunter on the internet, you'd think that there was something exciting going on in the sport. Something interesting, controversial. Something worth getting all riled up about. Imagine the utter mystification of the casual reader when they come to understand that most of the chat is to do with a different wheel size becoming available, and a couple of minor modifications in axle standards. It must be like wandering into a model railway forum and wading through a years-long, passionate argument about whether O-gauge or OO-gauge tiny trains are more charismatic***.
As certifiable in-nerds, we are so busy spotting the trees of these tiny differences that we completely miss the wood of our own deep, epic, boringness.
Meanwhile, in what is hilariously described as the "real world", normies are going to Evans, buying a cool road bike and some Chris Hoy branded merch, going out for long, fun, exciting road bike rides, joining the welcoming, friendly and fun road clubs by the thousand, logging trillions of fast, fun miles on Strava, then going home to watch the thrilling television coverage of their really exciting sport, which British people with side-burns and charisma and thighs are so amazing at.
TL; DR: MTB is lame, wheelsize is irrelevant, no wonder the normies ride road bikes.
🙂
* I am aware that adults do in fact also do BMX. Some even ride those little folding micro-scooters. They live with their mums.
** Really slow, wheezy, fat-person boxing day rambling, not cool old-guy in wooly hat hiking.
*** This is a trick question. Both are really lame.
P.S - No kittens were harmed in the posting of the above post.
P.P.S - Yes of course I ride MTB. I don't even have a road bike ATM
P.P.P.S:
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O gauge (rear), OO gauge (middle) and OOO gauge (front). But there is nothing for scale, so you still can't tell how tiny they are. For all you know, the one at the front could be regular sized. You don't even know.
🙂
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http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/the_smudger/3a84e192b71e4598dbad69e266b119bc.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]
🙂
"Bigdummy", first off, that pic atop this page is fantastic, the attention to detail is amazing. I know little enough to know great attention to detail when I see it. In any passion, love or hobby.
mikewsmithI've bought 2 new bikes in the last 2 1/2 years. One being a last run of 26" bikes and something I'd wanted for a long time, the other a 29" race bike I never knew I wanted.
Totally agree with you, buy what you want, need, or just lust after.
However, you bought a bike you never knew you wanted? Again, I get it. Try a demo bike, or a mates bike and it becomes more than a wish and more of a want.
If the "want" is totally, 100% based on the bike, its ride qualities, fit, riding style, heck, price. Its all good.
May I ask what made this bike a want from an unknown however? Honest question without any argumentative connotations, too old to mess around with "Im right, your wrong" online debates. I like to be proven wrong in my assumptions to be honest. As thats all they are, assumptions.
At no point do I feel the bike industry has taken me for a ride (pun intended) or done me over. I can still get plenty of parts for the 26" bike it will last me another couple of years easy.
Typed a long meandering reply to that then thought more thoroughly about what you said.
You've never bought a part and felt underwhelmed, even slightly? Thought you could have achieved the same at little or zero expense? Never made a bike purchase (or not even bike related?) and thought, "wow, that's it?". "That's what I spent that money on?"
The 26" bike you can source parts for another year or two... Will you sell it, or retire it as its 3 or 4 years old, simply due to lack of parts rather than being an awful/ outmoded ride? Will the bike that replaces it be dictated by what is available to buy as much as what you like? You sourced an end of line bike, you obviously love it to have gone to the trouble, will bikes really be that much better a few years from now? Like you say in next quote, bikes are already pretty damned good.
Compared to 10-15 years ago bikes are so much better, I can have a long travel bike that comes in under 30lb and rides uphill well enough to take on big adventures, my light XC bike is actually tough enough to ride without flexing and bending all over the place thanks to things like thru axles.
The big adventures. You never thought they were possible 10 or so years ago? You never read " A Bike Ride" for instance? As some drug fueled bloke once said, "it's not about the bike". Well, that much was true, the rider makes the adventure, Whether on a single speed pub bike or a £4K dream machine. Standards change, absolutely, whinging old farts like me even change eventually but the bike I rode back then might have been [b]more[/b] suited to true "mend it anywhere" expedition adventures rather than less. Tech back then was much more basic, utilitarian... but a damned site easier to get repaired by a mechanic in the middle of nowhere with an allen key and a ring spanner. Just illustrating my point, not intending to belittle yours opinion. A hell of a lot will disagree with me totally in fact.
My 6 year old fs weights a tonne to be honest. Have to perch my butt on the nose of the saddle to keep it online on steep-ish climbs. That's ok though as I knew that would be the case. I knew it was WELL on the wrong side of 30 Lb when I bought it s/hand too.
Thats still ok though, the negative was a positive to me. I never want a bike that makes either or both the ups or downs a simple point and click affair.
Anyway...Its all good.
My gripe is that when i can no longer source parts for this "old" bike it will likely hang on the shed wall as a reminder of the good rides/ times I had on it.
Well, else it gets robbed for parts... which mostly wont fit new frames.
Ride safe on the commute this morning or the fun time later, whichever connotation of bike you prefer or ride. 😀
that pic atop this page is fantastic
Great, isn't it? I think he's scaled the colour correctly, is part of it. Also, I'm 82% sure my dad's set-up has the same engine shed.
🙂
May I ask what made this bike a want from an unknown however?
Just never thought I'd own and XC race bike, just was never my thing. Now it is
The big adventures. You never thought they were possible 10 or so years ago? Be honest, you never read " A Bike Ride" for instance? Standards change, absolutely, whinging old farts like me change eventually, but apart from e-bikes (possibly....) the bike I rode back then might have been moresuited to true "mend it anywhere" expedition adventures. Tech back then was much more basic, utilitarian... but a damned site easier to get repaired by a mechanic in the middle of nowhere with an allen key and a ring spanner. Just illustrating my point, not intending to belittle yours opinion. A hell of a lot will disagree with me totally in fact.
I never said not possible, they were always possible, just now I can get the bike that loves the downs much further for less effort. Makes it more fun, more rewarding, being able to grab another peak on a loop or get to the end of a decent downhill with all your teeth and stop for the gate. Do stuff that used to be considered DH bike teritory on something that you can turn around and ride back up. Tech back then was old roadie cross over stuff. Stuff may have been more basic but utilitarian? I remember the days of exploding mech that would just crap themselves looking at a rock, I get much more life out of kit these days. As for fixing it it's all about the same, just a collection of bolts and pins that can be adjusted and fixed on the trail.
BigDummy - Memberthat pic atop this page is fantastic
Great, isn't it? I think he's scaled the colour correctly, is part of it. Also, I'm 82% sure my dad's set-up has the same engine shed.
Only 82%, not good enough? lol
Yeah, fantastic detail. Must have taken an age.
Makes me humble the next time I moan about having to tart up a bit of chain suck!
mikewsmith: I never said not possible, they were always possible, just now I can get the bike that loves the downs much further for less effort. Makes it more fun, more rewarding, being able to grab another peak on a loop or get to the end of a decent downhill with all your teeth and stop for the gate. Do stuff that used to be considered DH bike teritory on something that you can turn around and ride back up. Tech back then was old roadie cross over stuff. Stuff may have been more basic but utilitarian? I remember the days of exploding mech that would just crap themselves looking at a rock, I get much more life out of kit these days. As for fixing it it's all about the same, just a collection of bolts and pins that can be adjusted and fixed on the trail.
Mike, will come back on here later.
Really must get some close eye and you make some good points in the post.
Again, not trying to assert my opinion over yours. Its all subjective and Im glad I can still feel so impassioned about a hobby, any hobby actually. 😀
From the article: "back then, a roadie was a very different person to roadies now. They were old-school, they didn't want to spend money."
I remember a bikeshop in Croydon that used to surprise me with their sensible rates. It wasn't asking a days salary etc for work down on your bike. It was asuccessful road shop that carried mtb's as a sideline.
I must admit with the wheelsize forceable pushed 'its driven by consumers'. No it wasn't was it. But even a recent mag article argues this. I don't remember anyone saying they felt 26" wasn't right on rides over the years. It made me personally doubt the value of spending alot of money on any future kit as it may be obsolete in How long? What next?
Has the OP returned yet?
I think most people seem to be missing the main reason for the popularity of road cycling versus MTB. It's basically down to television coverage.
People see all the male and female heros in the Olympics, Tour de France, Tour of Britain etc, etc not to mention the triathlons as well where we also have World champions. Triathlons are a massive sport now and there is no real off-road equivalent.
They see that level of success and feel inspired to try and emulate it even at a very limited level. There is a massive amount of road cycling coverage in the UK and virtually no televised MTB racing.
Who in the general public even knows who Gee or Rachel Atherton are?
Has the OP returned yet?
And did we ever see his graph?