[Closed] What Garmin Edge do I need?

Base mapping on the 520 is pretty useless but if you use google you'll find a guide to putting a custom map of the area you want on it and then it actually becomes useful for navigation. However if navigation is what you want and don't need all the sensor compatibility then one of the tour models could well be better.

Cycling weekly has a guide to the various Garmin models. They'll all follow a route you build and download to them, some are able to route on their built-in maps satnav style. The newer maps have some bridleways and cyclepaths.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/garmin-edge-complete-buyers-guide-183499

I have a UK 1:50000 OS map on my Garmin, very good for following bridleways.

For me 810 was the sweet spot that gave you decent battery life, functionality and all weather use screen.

Guide to adding maps below, works on all garmin devices

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/05/download-garmin-705800810.html

If navigation is your priority then the Edge Explore is currently the best bang for your buck. Compared to all other models except the 1030, it's much more responsive to interaction and calculates routes quicker, and has a more reliable touchscreen. It comes with maps for Europe, can be sideloaded with custom maps if you want to (though doesn't have an SD card slot for plugging in the Garmin OS map cards), supports IQ apps like Trailforks, and has a battery saver feature which turns the screen off when not needed (it comes back on when approaching a turn or when you tap it) and appears to give about 16 hours of battery life. You can get it for under £200 if you have discount at Halfords.

The 520 has some weaknesses on the navigation front: you can only get a small map area on there (the 520 Plus addresses that issue) and you can't pan the map (I believe even zooming out is a difficult process; though I've not personally used the 520).

Impressed with the Edge 820 & Halfords have it reduced to £225 at the minute (so a smidge over £200 if you’ve a British Cycling membership).  Standard map is pretty useful & the unit will take additional uploads.

I have an 810. The navigation is piss poor. And the base maps next to useless. Even with the maps installed the screen is so small its pointless. Plus connectivity is hopeless

Its good for training, power reading, loads of data screens etc, but for reading maps and routes its pointless

If I was buying again I'd get the cheapest GPS that read power, but probably not a garmin

Why an Edge and not an Etrex or Oregon?

i bought an edge 520 plus purely for trailforks.  Easy to download and use the maps from trailforks (although it does cost 15 dollars i think for each country.  Very easy to find and routes or trails on trailforks and sync them over wireless.  I used it when i was back in Scotland at Innerliethen and worked a treat, just following a ride i found.  Used it just as a map at Glen tress and struggled, although that could be purely as there are so many trails there and the map resembles a child's first drawing.

Off to NZ in a week and have downloaded a few routes i want to do in certain places so i can just turn up and follow them.  Hopefully means i can find the good stuff.

Find the lack of touchscreen a benefit, from memory my old 810 didnt work very well with gloves although that might be wrong...

Overall happy with the 520+, also comes with a leash so you can attach it to the bars so you dont lose it.

Has a crash feature where it sends an email to emergency contacts if you stop abruptly.  I used this feature once or twice then disabled it.  Found it quite frustrating when you have just crashed and then you have 10 seconds to disarm your garmin before it sends a message to your mates letting them know you have crashed!

Any other questions just ask.

The small display unit Garmins are best left to road navigation (and arguably the software is so shite, they are not worth the effort even for that).

For off road I use a SATMAP device.  It's a fair old chunk of a unit though, so won't suit everyone.  I also use an old smartphone in summer, with one of those elastic type mounts along the stem, but it is not as secure.

I'm with @scotroutes on this one.

I'm looking for a new bike computer that does all the usual stuff, but with the ability to navigate accurately all the time.

Reading on here, there seems to be a complaint a day about either the Edge or Elemnt models. I seems that everyone has a problem of some sort and there does appear to be a lot of switching across the ranges looking for that elusive perfect item.

When I was mountain biking and/or fell running I used the eTrex models. Navigated off road perfectly. The only drawback came when I hadn't plotted my route properly, but that's not the unit's fault.

I'm fast coming to the conclusion that bike computers are just too full of bells and whistles to do the simple things correctly. They are trying to be all things to all men and are failing.

So I'm probably going to go with a fairly basic computer to give me speed/distance/time (and those important Strava segments) etc., and when I'm away from roads I know I will put the etrex back on the bars and use that for navigation. It will produce a .gpx file that I can upload to Strava because Strava segments are the one thing that cyclists must never, ever be without!!!

I'm probably an old luddite but am coming to the conclusion that the present obsession with second by second data on every aspect of a ride is becoming overkill. Everything is forgotten by tomorrow anyway, so stop spending money on fancy gear that appears to be troublesome to use.

Won't get me many kudos points but does that matter?

as Bez points out the mapping and navigation on the 520 is hampered by some terrible interface design. It could be perfectly adequate but panning round the map is impossible and zooming is an awkward job. It's a shame because the hardware is good but using the thing is a joyless experience - more often than not I default to my Edge 500 unless I really need the mapping

Got a 520 here and following a trail isn't much of an issue even without base maps loaded, just does a nice line to follow and beeps when you stray off route.

I use tralforks as a back up/extra detail when off road because it has much better information for mountain biking

I've got an Edge Touring - actually a warranty replacement from a previous Touring that just failed.

Navigation on them is a lottery at the best of times, they're very prone to errors, crashes, data losses and they often find it extremely difficult to differentiate between two parallel tracks or turns in quick succession. I did a route yesterday which needed reloading about 3 times to get it even close to capable.

Ultimately, for something called a Touring and aimed (in thoery) at people who don't require all the performance metrics but do need a reliable navigational device with good base mapping, it falls woefully short. I have very little trust or faith in mine. As soon as it dies I'll be looking into somethign like a Lezyne XL or a Wahoo.

No real reason for an edge other than i like the idea of trailforks compatability (not sure what other devices ar compatable)

Im certainly open to other options as its a fair cost to drop on something that wont do what i want it too, im wanting to do more remote rides in the cheviots etc so having something to assist with navigation etc is what i really want.

1030 for navigation is brilliant. Good size screen. Map updates for free. On off road map. Good battery life. I've got 800, 1000, 650 Oregon. 1030 is best.

@sarawak - that's basically what I do. I've a 510 for road riding since nearly all that's done locally so I know the roads pretty well or am close enough to somewhere I do know that I can get myself out of a "lost" situation.

For off-road I've an Oregon 600. I've OS maps for GB and OSM for GB, Iceland, France and Finland.

Things like turn by turn navigation off-road are down to the mapping and how the data has been input. I think a lot of the problems come from features being added but not access rights so you'll have: track, bridge, track. The two tracks have bike access enabled but you can't add that to the bridge so there's now a "gap" and if you try and create a bike route across the bridge it won't let you. The solution is to add a bridleway on top of the track and bridge but that often gets left out.

I'm probably (make that definitely) out of touch with the modern way of doing things.

I still have a full set of OS Memory Maps on my PC at 1:10,000. Not sure they are available any more. They knock spots off the present on line OS maps, and other digital mapping platforms. Creating a route on Strava maps seems positively amateurish  by comparison.

I can create either routes or tracks. With routes I can put in definite turn markers that show up well in advance. The Oregon unit IIRC is similar to mine but higher up the pecking order.

I've not yet found a mapping system on a dedicated cycle computer that gives me the same flexibility and control, either in the creation or use of routes.

The number of threads on here seem to indicate that many others also struggle.

@sarawak indeed the issue i had was that the 1:50,000 i was using in the forest wasnt anywhere near enough to the detail i needed. 1:10,000 may have been better for sure

Ultimately, for something called a Touring and aimed (in thoery) at people who don’t require all the performance metrics but do need a reliable navigational device with good base mapping, it falls woefully short.

I have one of those.  It is crashy and infuriating, but it does far more than anything else at the price I paid (£120) and I greatly value its features.  I'm often in unfamiliar areas with work, and its ability to let me plan routes, modify routes on the fly and simply navigate via the map is superb and I think (but I'm not sure) these features are better even than more expensive devices.  On SR's Wahoo I seemed to be unable to pan the map whilst navigating - is this true on other devices?  I find this an essential feature on the Edge Touring.

I'm keen to hear about Bez's experience with the new Edge Explore, since it seems to be the same kind of thing but done better. I hope so.

Incidentally, for those stuck with an Edge Touring I made a thread on here to document all the tricks and tips you need to get it to work half way sensibly.  Worth searching for if you want to make the best of it.

@sarawak - I did have Memory Map on the last PC I owned, it was the one thing I missed when moving to a Mac.

From low to high end: Etrex, Dakota, Oregon, Montana.

I think there's a mixture of reasons for the frustration. The underlying mapping not being up to scratch. The devices having limited space on screen for information and on the unit for controls. Users either having unrealistic expectations or not RTFM!

I certainly wouldn't even try to create a route on a GPS or mobile device, it would be an exercise in frustration.

The OP's navigation mishap wouldn't have been eased by any device as new forest tracks are unlikely to appear automatically on whatever map is in use. If it was an existing track then it's a case of marrying the terrain to the on-screen map: left turn after sharp right hand bend or whatever, rather than relying on then blaming the device. Navigating off-road isn't as straightforward as on-road, you still need to keep an eye on what's around you and not blindly follow the device.

I certainly wouldn’t even try to create a route on a GPS or mobile device, it would be an exercise in frustration.

I've done this many times on my Edge Touring.  Sometimes when bailing out of a ride half way round I can tell it to just get me home, or I can cut short how I want.  The problem with it though is the routing is pretty bonkers and you get very little control over it.  And the control you do have is a mystery - you get different types of cycling as a preference, but it doesn't say what effect they have.

So I end up setting multiple waypoints to plan a route which does eliminate most of the bonkers stuff - but not all of it.  And some is down to the OSM mapping too so you can't really blame Garmin for 100% of the weirdness.  About 90 I reckon.  It's a faff, but it's better than printing out screen grabs of maps on multiple bits of paper and stopping all the time to check them which is what I used to have to do.

I also make GPXs on bikehike.co.uk and upload those to the device - this works well generally (as long as automatic recalculation is off) and yesterday it got me through the maze of lanes from my house to Tintern without a hitch.

Navigating off-road isn’t as straightforward as on-road, you still need to keep an eye on what’s around you and not blindly follow the device.

Interestingly I find the OSM based maps that came with the Garmin to be much better for this than the OS maps I installed on it.  More or less everything is on the OSM, even unofficial bike trails.  The only down side is that you don't know which ones you're allowed to use 🙂

When the OS Memory Map came out each area of the country was on a separate disc. Each disc had a full operating system and just two small files for the map area covered.

Some enterprising guy worked out that once you owned one disc you could extract the two map files quite easily, so he set up a group. Entry was by buying an map - any that hadn't been bought before - and making the files available. In return you got all the other maps.

Not sure if it was legit but it was damned useful.

The new OS system won't allow that. I've looked at it, but the UI is very clunky in comparison. I use the old system several times a week and I've not seen anything that touches it for accuracy and ease of use.

No restrictions on where you can plot your routes and easy to amend or redraw. I count myself lucky to still have it, and it's well backed up for when I change my PC.

@whitestone the issue was caused tracking up a forested valley and following a climb that tracked the same direction as what i was following on the map however not the correct one, ultimatly my error however the map wasnt true to the exact layout when we tracked back. Once out of the forest line higher up i was able to work out my location but being well below the tree line in thick fiorest certainly made things more difficult, i also believe one of the bridolways i tried to pick up had been recently forrested and couldnt be found.....i suppose this is one of the issues with riding in managed forrest though.

@molgrips - I've not used the Touring so can't comment on how easy or otherwise it is on that. But is that done like you would on bikehike, tapping points and letting the SW route you between them? (Then undoing because it's done something weird and you have to add an intermediate point 🙁 )

I've commented multiple times about OSM mapping and its foibles. I've updated stuff on the core maps for around here (Skipton) but Strava and the like don't show it so I'm not sure if there hasn't been an official "release" in the interim or Strava haven't taken the release. They may make their own map from the core data, I don't know.

@timthetinyhorse - One big problem is that on OS maps the line shown by the BW "right of way" sometimes just doesn't exist on the ground, the dashed line is some vague "it goes up there". A footpath, not a bridleway but this example shows it to perfection  http://streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=256619&Y=347034&A=Y&Z=120  If you followed the red dotted line from the summit of Moel Hebog then you'd drop off a 500ft cliff! Similarly, this BW  http://streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=278631&Y=309116&A=Y&Z=120 just doesn't exist at all - trust me I've tried to find and ride it.

I believe that any Garmin that comes pre installed with mapping above and beyond the basic base map is now using OSM rather than OS and has done for a few years now?

But is that done like you would on bikehike, tapping points and letting the SW route you between them?

Yes.  But the routing in between waypoints is the problem.  There are three routing modes - Cycling, Tour Cycling and Mountain Biking.  MTBing is basically useless because it does really weird stuff like routing you up some massive climb miles out of your way to take in some trail it thinks is worth it.  I mean 3x the distance you would otherwise need and up a 250m climb.  Bonkers.  If you leave it on 'cycling' it's basically ok and often gives you some nice shortcuts, but it is still obsessed with cyclepaths.  It'll work quite hard to get you on what it has been told is a cyclepath even if it's a rubbish track. And it doesn't understand that in the UK a NCN route isn't necessarily a cyclepath, so it really really wants you to go on those at the expense of other really nice quiet country roads.

I think the weightings are on the maps and it chooses the thresholds with which it compares the routes - so third party maps are available that massage the routing to limit this (e.g. Veloviewer).  However I found that Veloviewer contained more glitches that cause the turn-by-turn to stop working.

Incidentally bikehike.co.uk has moved to OSM for its mapping rather than Google, and this seems to have helped produce more accurate routes.  When you input a GPX the device creates its own route following the GPX which then gets the TBT prompts.  Certain generated GPXs contain more or fewer points, and some are more accurate which seems to reduce the likelihood of a glitch.  When drawing my own routes by clicking track points using TrackLogs, I had the most glitches by far.

 One big problem is that on OS maps the line shown by the BW “right of way” sometimes just doesn’t exist on the ground, the dashed line is some vague “it goes up there”.

Yes, and by contrast Garmin/OSM maps contain ALL the home made cheeky trails in our local woods, that would never be on an OS map in a million years.

Ultimately, for something called a Touring and aimed (in thoery) at people who don’t require all the performance metrics but do need a reliable navigational device with good base mapping, it falls woefully short.

Their software is rubbish too. The latest map update for EdgeTouring is too big for the 8GB supplied MicroSD card! A minimum of 11 GB of space required. Why make an update that doesn't work with the supplied equipment? Also Why have updating software on one platform that doesn't report the space error correctly (Mac) but does on a PC?

I manage 5 at work and they truly are a woeful company to deal with. I have a screen needs repairing. We have an RMA but I need to ring them and prod for a payment link that was not sent as promised by their support chap.

On SR’s Wahoo I seemed to be unable to pan the map whilst navigating – is this true on other devices? I find this an essential feature on the Edge Touring.

True of the Wahoos, the 520, 520 Plus, and all the non-mapping Garmins, as far as I'm aware.

I’m keen to hear about Bez’s experience with the new Edge Explore, since it seems to be the same kind of thing but done better. I hope so.

I want to do a few more rides and test it with all my gloves before doing a full review, but I'm struggling to find time to turn any pedals at the moment. Suffice to say: "a Touring but done better" is fairly spot on. Indeed that was precisely what I wanted (and I never really had major problems with the 800 or the Touring; a few niggles but that's all). The main points compared to the 800/Touring: much faster to pan/zoom the map, much faster to calculate routes, does all the wireless magic without fuss, and battery saver mode gives much longer battery life. I only have two noteworthy niggles so far, but neither is major and one is related to a specific IQ app, so I'm inclined to finger that rather than the Explore, even though the same app worked fine on my 1000. Overall: thumbs firmly up.

Their software is rubbish too. The latest map update for EdgeTouring is too big for the 8GB supplied MicroSD card! A minimum of 11 GB of space required. Why make an update that doesn’t work with the supplied equipment?

I found this when I plugged the Garmin in, it said updates were available and then it sat there for HOURS updating until suddenly it said "memory card too small, update failed".

Why it couldn't interrogate the device first, find out how much space it had / what card was installed and then tell me to replace it BEFORE it sat there trying to download gigabytes of data I have no idea.

If you leave it on ‘cycling’ it’s basically ok and often gives you some nice shortcuts, but it is still obsessed with cyclepaths. It’ll work quite hard to get you on what it has been told is a cyclepath even if it’s a rubbish track.

^^ This too. If you're plotting a route on RWGPS you have to check very carefully in between clicks that the software is routing you on roads otherwise it'll randomly decide to throw you off route just because there's a cycle path there. Even with the "follow roads" tab enabled.

The latest map update for EdgeTouring is too big for the 8GB supplied MicroSD card! A minimum of 11 GB of space required. Why make an update that doesn’t work with the supplied equipment?

Would you rather have the option to upgrade to newer (and I assume more detailed) maps provided you buy a £5 memory card, or would you rather have your device mothballed with no further updates?

I mean, I'm not assuming Garmin have implemented it in a user-friendly way, I've moved on from the Touring so haven't tried it. But at least they're still updating the device rather than killing it off.

Edit: oh, I see from crazy-legs' post that they haven't. No huge surprises 🙂 but still…

If you’re plotting a route on RWGPS you have to check very carefully in between clicks that the software is routing you on roads otherwise it’ll randomly decide to throw you off route just because there’s a cycle path there. Even with the “follow roads” tab enabled.

To be fair to RWGPS at least it's quite easy to flip between driving/cycling/walking. I tend to use driving for road rides, dragging it away from major roads if need be, and the other two for multi-surface/MTB rides. (Walking comes in very handy because of the way the OSM trails are modelled: lots of them don't come up as cycling-compatible when they actually are.)

Think all this reinforces the view that bike computers are generally not user friendly. You all have different views about how to get the least worst performance from them.

No wonder OP is confused.

Why make an update that doesn’t work with the supplied equipment?

It does work with it - you just need a new memory card, which cost me a fiver.  I'd rather have the option than not.  With a bit of luck the extra 4Gb of map data will make it a bit better.  I'm sure Europe hasn't got 50% bigger since the device was released so it must be more detail.

Why it couldn’t interrogate the device first

Garmin Express has done that for me, IIRC on both Mac and PC.

Think all this reinforces the view that bike computers are generally not user friendly.

True, but that's because they are attempting something pretty difficult and they just haven't quite got there yet.  Google/TomTom can be fairly confident they're sending you the most sensible way in a car, but on bikes we have some pretty diverse and stringent requirements of our routes.  Imagine trying to create a driving route for off-roaders.

The alternative is paper maps which are pretty time consuming.