[Closed] Which ebike would you buy?...

One without a battery & motor hahhahahahahahah.

E-bikes are distant in the future for me, far too expensive and I still feel resistant to them. However being furloughed has made me realize how tired I was from commuting 5 days a week all year round, and then adding on top of that leisure riding for fun/skills/thrills/etc. The distance I commute isn't even all that far!

The people calling out the haters have had some effect however so for me if I think it would have to be a cargo e-bike... so I could transport my another bike to fun/different places to ride... or shopping... or commuting etc.

the one I have - an add on kit that is good and can be moved between bikes

I'd be tempted to buy an e bike as a car replacement at some point.... but while petrol scooters are cheaper and faster for the commute I'll be using one of those until electric scooters become cheap enough (cheaper than e bikes) 🤔.

Keep in mind the 'total weight' factor. With most being 120kg.

The Van Moof is 19kg, which leaves 101kg approximately, and lets face it, when have manufacturers statistics ever been spot on. More likely less.
What do you weigh ?. Deduct that too, and any weight you might put into it, a rack, panniers deduct a few more Kg, leaving likely not a lot of whatever goes into it. Must be a Kg at least for a decent lock.

Is it shopping. Farting about the city coffee house to coffee house. Further afield ?.
As you get use to it, you could find yourself wishing you'd bought maybe more versatile.

And since when was 'one size fits all' a good way to fit a bike. Somethings going to be wrong for all in that 5'8"-6'8" range. Whatever you go for, make sure it is going to fit well.

I'm full time countryside commuting (8 miles, 300m) on this £2k Wilier. It's pretty good so far, although the weather has been very kind recently.

I always think that these "which bike should I buy ....." posts are starting from the wrong place it should start with
- What are you using the bike for? Commuting, mixed path and road riding, x-country, downhill
- Where are you riding the bike? Road, gravel tracks, paths and bridleways, serious off roading?
- What is your budget?
- Any must haves on the bike? Suspension? Electrikery? Cargo carrying capacity, etc.
Answer those questions, choose the type of bike you need, then look at what your options are.

Term GSD

How tall are you ?

Might find bikes made in countries where most are tall, than from the far east, where the market average is smaller stature.

Put me right off tern, being over 6'. The surly big easy at least comes in small,medium and large. Some of the pics of these one size bikes it looks like your knees might bump the bars it looks that close.
A good move by Surly.

Personally, I don't see an e-bike being in my commuting plan, well ever. Today's driving has been 3 miles to school, carrying 6 year old, about 30Kgs of stuff for work. An hour at the office, then 4 miles into town carrying super expensive laptop for client, drop that off, then 100 mile around trip to Swansea to see client, dropping off more stuff and collecting stuff for destruction. I'm doing more of that at the moment as our usual same-day courier is quite old and has a bad chest.

Yesterday I borrowed my Boss's E-Scooter for a bit, that was great fun, if a bit slow and wobbly thanks to the flat tyres. I also passed the Police, who looked at me on my unregistered, wobbly scooter riding down the road, rolled their eyes and look the other way, so that was fun. I'd like one for when I have to pop to the shop etc, but I wouldn't use it in the same way I won't take my MTB, there are too many wrong 'uns around to leave something so expensive and desirable laying about unattended.

I'm slowly coming around to the fact my next MTB will be an e-Bike. I only ever run one bike at a time... but I might console myself by saying I'll keep my current one as my 'real' bike and share my time between that and my e-bike, knowing full-well I'll never use my real bike again.

Currently looking at the 2021 Commencal Meta Power SX or hang on to see what the new Bird E-Bike will be like... I'm a big Bird fan, but they seem pretty embedded with Sram and I'd want the new Steps EP8 motor, even though I know nothing about e-bikes really, it seems the one to have. Sram seem in bed with Bosch, but who knows.

Jason Kenny reckons the Tern e-Cargo bike is the best thing he's ever bought.

But I suppose he gets given most of his bikes (except the ones he has built by Brian Rourke)

not sure about the shimano ep8 motor being the one to have....

More reviews are coming out now and they're saying the rattling over rough ground is loud ( louder than the bosch - which in my experience isnt actually that loud), the power is nowhere near the brose or the bosch, the fact they've had to delay shipment due to issues with the motor mounts cracking, and the fact that the main bearings are not replaceable, meaning the motor is scrap once the bearings wear out, kind of put it in the give it 12-18 months and then see bracket for me.

I went for an orbea wild fs (bosch motor) , its great , loving it so far.

Maybe a Stromer, or a Brompton

To replace a car, Riese & Muller Load 75. Had a test ride on one a couple of years ago and it was just amazing. You could buy a car for the price though.

Levo Levo Levo, but i'm biased

To replace a car it would have to be a cargo bike i reckon.
I see a couple of Ecargo bikes going around Edinburgh occasionally, they look bloody useful it has to be said.

I can see why people say a cargo bike to replace a car. However I bought a Cube Kathmandu Touring which has replaced my car for 95% of the time. The Bosch motor has been better than I expected and is pretty quiet.

Levo Levo Levo, but i’m biased

Sensible too; one that's broken, one that's about to break and a spare. 😀

think that these “which bike should I buy …..” posts are starting from the wrong place it should start with...

Apologies for the confusion, I was actually being literal (to provoke discussion) ie what would you (looking at you, pointy finger, etc) factor in if sourcing an ebike for your ‘car-replacement‘ use (as opposed to an eMTB).

That said, I’m a complete (re personal transport) bike geek and agree totally when you say

Answer those questions, choose the type of bike you need, then look at what your options are.

As an example - it took me 2 months to assess, compare and finally choose a (battery-powered) road light! Case in point - it drives me mad that most UK riders choose based on lumens/mtb styling and pick completely unsuitable/even dangerous lighting when used on the public highway.

I’m not personally in the market for an ebike at the minute. Possibly at some point looking at a kit such as the Swytch just for a hill boost on return leg. I make a lot of trips and carry a fair amount of groceries, pet foods, spring water, visiting friends/family etc etc. Repeat climbs are difficult as am in rehab. Currently use an old tourer for most solo local journeys (up to 30 miles-ish round) and have used bicycles (rather than motorised vehicles) in this way for 35 years. Yet, could possibly see my Longitude being electrified for cargo/touring when if/when the tech arrives. Dedicated cargo bike would be preferable. I like the Tern GSD design and a number of bakfiets, Urban Arrow, Packster etc.

Enjoyed the video, I’m interested in some of the tech in the Van Moof and hope to see similar in other e-bikes. I’d love to have a ride on one around a city. Looks fun.

*Edit - just realised that Fully Charged channel also seem now to be an electric cargo bike store! How did I not see that before? https://www.fullycharged.com/e-bikes/bike-type/electric-cargo-bikes

Forgot to say - I like the Van Moof ‘Peace of Mind’ coverage (€290). ie if it’s stolen they will do their best to track and return it. Otherwise the company will replace it as part of the deal (up to three times in three years)! Haven’t read the small print but on the face of it that’s an attractive insurance deal. Would like to see more manufacturers offering similar.

Longer and geekier review here:

Specialized Levo owner here

Had a 2017 Levo, 2018 Kenevo and now a 2020 Levo

Only advise id give is choose your bike company and your dealer carefully!

All motors can break, Brose, Bosch, Shimano Yamaha etc... no one brand is immune from motor failure

The 2019/2020 Brose motor has a known issue that can cause failure, Specialized have sent out updates to help with this and have beefed up parts in the 2021 motor to stop it happening

Along with this to assure all 2019/2020 owners they have extended the motor warranty for another 2 years so four in total which is great and gives peace of mind

This is where warranty policies, reputation of the manufacturer and dealer, dealer knowledge, expertise and honesty played a big part of my decision

For me Specialized's 2 year warranty on motors and batteries with an assisted replacement program after those 2 years with a sidling scale discount depending on the age of the parts, plus their reputation when it comes to warranty work made me choose them

Then for the dealer i decided on Chris Reilly@Berkshire cycles, known as the Levo king

Same day motor replacements whilst you wait (if he runs out he will drive to Spesh HQ to get more) so your off your bike for the shortest time possible

Great knowledge of the motor, battery and associated wiring, great discounts on the RRP of the bike, this guy has people driving 6-8 hour round trips to have their bike fixed because their local dealer is useless!

Some dealers lie to customers and say they cant get a motor for two weeks or just dont have the knowledge to fix/diagnose problems (Evans im talking about you!!!!)

Join Emtb forums and have read up on there, Specialized Rider Care are a member and another member posted that they were told by their local shop the there were no motors in the UK, he asked on the forum and Specialized Rider Care confirmed there is full stock of motors in the UK so the dealer was lying!

https://www.emtbforums.com/community/forums/specialized.4/

Is there an E-bike equivalent to a Surly ECR or Orge?

I need to travel to random bits of the canal network, so a bike which can carry things like measuring wheels, staffs, laptops and other things I need for work, plus lunch, snacks and drink, etc.

It would need to be able to tackle boggy towpaths, be capable and being dragged up and down uneven steps, stiles, and if there is an option, be thrown into trains. And also knock out road miles to get between places if the canal towpath is going in the wrong direction

In some cases it would also need to be lifted on to the top of a car, as my patch goes all the way to Lancaster and Barnoldswick, and some places in between are just too far even using the train. edit, I should add that I live in Northwich

I have no money for this, so I'm just interested if there is something suitable for doing the above. Tern GSD is almost there, but I think the boggy towpaths would stop it.

This is exactly the reason I bought my Levo, specialized customer support is excellent. The warranty is also transferable, if you want to sell it at a later date. Which when buying second hand (as I did) is essential. I've had one motor replaced under warranty form a local specialized dealer who didn't handle the original sale, no questions asked. Then they added another 2 years onto my warranty, super happy about that. I don't know of any other manufacturer that offers warranty to subsequent owners.

From a practical long term ownership perspective (which may or may not be required - but it is to me)

I’d have a look at things like general spares availability, and especially engine rebuildability (They’re not all rebuildable*), engine spares availability and having these things not too far away from a dealer with a track record. I no longer have a shimano, I have a 2020 Specialized 4yr warranty and rebuildable.

*to my knowledge ( and I would love to be wrong ) available commercially

To replace a car? A cargo bike I think, very practical for a bit shopping and such like.

Can I chuck aesthetics into the mix 🙂

I'm trying to avoid the ones that have the huge battery stuck to the down tube like a gigantic waterbottle.
The heavier box section downtube containing a battery compartment is so much nicer, and box section is pretty much an accepted shape people are used to. Even thick tube is a look thats known.
In fact I remember bitd larger diameter tubing was used and gave greater strength.

But shoving a big fing battery onto it just looks pants.

I do like the van moof one, and for just commuting and light shopping it lookss ideal. Not really heavy, not cumbersome or a different riding style to the one you've ridden the past 30 years. They've thought about the niche they're going to fill, and thats a sure sign of good design practice, which makes them stand out amongst the now many choices.
From their site I took the impression it isnt a huge range, but again its the niche they're likely aiming for.

Now all we need is for frame/battery/motor and or fork to be available as the new Eframeset. Rather than pay premium for bottom of the range spec.

I do like the van moof one, and for just commuting and light shopping it lookss ideal.

That’s what I thought until I read the geo. 34” standover. iirc it’s a 58-59cm seat tube. For groceries/loading/faffing around in town that is silly. And my regular bikes are 55cm.

There’s one off the list. Daft having only one tall size as a 29er. There’s the X3 which probably makes more sense but looks like a totally different bike and not half as ‘invisible’ as the S3.

Neither have a removable battery so charging could be a problem if live upstairs.

Anyone tried a Radwagon cargo bike?

Having used for a fair period of time each (6 months plus as a daily) a long e-cargo bike (big dummy type) , a medium length e-cargo bike (R&M multicharger) and a commuter ebike with a trailer, the ebike plus trailer wins hands down.

Cargo carrying 95% of the time is as good, if not better (Inc long or heavy items) and 100% of the time easier to live with - parking and locking up, storage, unloaded riding, cost.

I'd love to try a tern gsd, but given I reckon I'll always have such a solution in my garage, I can't see me straying from my current ebike and trailer type solution.

FWIW I've ridden a radwagon. If you're used to a regular ebike system, theirs feels very agricultural in multiple ways. If you've never ridden one before, you'd get used to it.

At above for liveability though - imo you need a massive garage to comfortably live with them, never need to lift them, and hope that wherever you park up has ample space and accessibility.

Also, I found the tube diameters of the rack were too thick for my bungee cords 😅

I'd buy an enduro e-bike and a spare wheelset with slicks.

The motor will cut out at the same speed whether you're on à road or MTB eeb, so why not have the MTB?

Unless there's a reason I've not considered?

thnks @hungrymonkey for the radwagon thoughts. Interesting and useful.

so why not have the MTB?

For personal transport/commuting/town/load-lugging?
I can think of a number of reasons where it would possibly be suboptimal for purpose ie

Weight, cost, no rack mounts, no full length guards, no kickstand, super-nickable etc to name a few? I’ve thought about the possibility of an ebike that would cover many bases (including MTB) but remain unconvinced. The only solution is being wealthy, having a big garage and the budget for e-enduro, e-cargo and e-city slicker! Oh, and an acoustic gravel bike 😎

Unless there’s a reason I’ve not considered?

The wear on suspension components and the need for servicing. You'll also get much better range on a dedicated road e-bike as you'll not generally need the motor to work as hard.

I made the jump just before Christmas maxing out the c2w budget with a Cannondale Topstone4. Has been my 100% commute machine since then. But as I've only been in twice that's not much to shout about! But I do think when I go back more often the 30mile each way ride is well within my grasp 2-3 times a week. Bike is powerful, fast, comfortable, and I think in warmer times I could squeeze a return trip out of a single charge. Will definitely be saving the the halfway drive i was making to commute before.

Its also great fun exploring local lanes and bridleways. Definitely selling out but I keep telling myself I'm saving the nice bikes for summer as I abuse the commuter in the mud.

So in response to the OP, I'd get a Topstone as a car replacement. It won't replace it totally, but will do on commutes.

I got this from another thread, its a range indicator you can set. Certainly suggests all ranges claimed by the manufacturers are way off. In fact looks to be about half the claimed range.
https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/service/range-assistant/

I need one of these but the further i look into it and the more threads i read the worse it all gets. From poor range to pathetic reliability to over the top pricing.

I reckon that bosch range calculator is pretty accurate. I did a ride yesterday on my bosch cx gen 4 mountain bike, managed 31 miles and 5200 feet of climbing before the battery ran out - had to do the last mile on leg power alone.

I just put all the details into that range calculator and it reckons I should have got 35 miles.

There are so many variables its hard to be accurate, but once you've done a few rides you'll get a feel for how far you can typically go .

I did a ride yesterday on my bosch cx gen 4 mountain bike, managed 31 miles and 5200 feet of climbing before the battery ran out – had to do the last mile on leg power alone.

How does that compare with the claimed range when you got the bike. Might be an indicator is whats claimed as opposed to what you actually get, though 5200 feet of climbing will likely be more that the manufacturer specced. Personally I think it's the climb aspect that drains the battery.

Which makes me wonder about another point. When using some battery preoducts, if you put it on full it can really rip through the battery, but if you do a bit, then let the battery 'recover' you tend to get more or longer use.
Im using my battery drill as comparison. If i run it at high speed when using a wire brush it runs out of charge quicker, but letting it rest,do a bit, more rest,it is lasting longer 😕

How does that compare with the claimed range when you got the bike. Might be an indicator is whats claimed as opposed to what you actually get, though 5200 feet of climbing will likely be more that the manufacturer specced. Personally I think it’s the climb aspect that drains the battery.

what claimed range? there is no singular claimed range, its so variable depending on terrain,motor mode, you, the bike, tyres, the weather etc. Do you mean the range on the digital display when I first turn the bike on?

If you do mean that, then that range indicator changes based on the previous few hundred meters riding, so if you've been riding along on the flat at low speed the range indicated will be massive, but as soon as you go up a hill it will shrink . Currently is says (with a 100% charged battery and based of whatever info it has retained from yesterdays ride) that I have a range of 11 miles in turbo, or 24 miles in eco.

The range indicator is largely useless as it fluctuates too much, like I say you'll quickly develop a feel for how far you can go,how much climbing you can do.

This is all for the bosch gen4 cx motor by the way.

I think the range indicators on ebikes are a bit like the early fuel range indicators in cars, currently far too simplistic to be anywhere near accurate.

No, i actually meant as in the bumff the manufacturer stick in with the description. Some say 500w battery equals this much range, and the 625w battery equals x much range. Of course we know its all pants and based on a minimum weight rider, riding smooth asphalt with no wind and no inclines, but i hoped from your range we/I could get an approximate range of what 500w or 625w would give in the real world. Dependent on which size battery you have fitted.

I know roughly where Ill be cycling, i can guess the approximate height of incline, and ive a fair idea of the approximate distance I want to use it. Last thing i want is to run out of juice so to speak and end up pushing it for 3 miles.

So the thing is for me anyway, who is going to pay thousands on one, can i get away with a 500, or should i really opt for the bigger battery, and should i buy sus, or opt for HT.

I know roughly where Ill be cycling, i can guess the approximate height of incline, and ive a fair idea of the approximate distance I want to use it. Last thing i want is to run out of juice so to speak and end up pushing it for 3 miles.

Just use the bosch range calculator website up there in the thread, it actually seems reasonably accurate if you put in the correct info.

Just use the bosch range calculator website up there in the thread, it actually seems reasonably accurate if you put in the correct info.

The one i posted the link to ? 😆
Aye, seems to show about 40miles for a 500w so probably best with a 625 for better range. I was thinking of a run out to Loch lomond as a base measurement, anything less than that should be fine

I'd really like a e-cargo bike - we'll soon be living at the top of a hill, about a mile from the village centre / shops / post office with a daily stack of parcels and packages one way and shopping to bring back. I can take the bike down a rough track or it's a mile further in the car. I'd love the Tern GSD but expect it'll be out my price range.

A cheap bodged one.

I'm seriously considering swapping the OFO for something even more utilitarian but with a couple of motorway bridges to get over between me and the shops that's going to mean an electric motor. Not sure whether to go with a hub motor or a BB though (I know BB is fat better, but harder to package it neatly on a retrofit). It'd be nice to do my commute on a cargo bike, but I suspect 25miles on a bike that big might be pushing the battery a bit!

OH is resistant to going down to a 1 (real, the MG doesn't count) car house as there's always odd days when we both need to be 20-200 miles away. And I'm the one with the practical car so it would be her hatchback that went.

Not quite a cargo bike. But I'm putting a BB conversion on my fatbike, with a rear rack. It's done sterling beer and firewood carrying duty this lockdown winter, will be even better next winter with a bit of e-assistance in the clag. It's a couple of up and downs over the South Downs to the village housing our fave brewery and pub so will cut that 'commuting' time nicely. And be fun.

Non-commuting wise am still mulling (for the future) one of those assisted gravel bike thingies mainly for Alps and stuff like that. And for really annoying roadie mates when at home.

I have a Radwagon 4, it is not a performance ebike but it does work for taking 2 kids the short ride to school and getting a top up shop. The shop size is only limited as I don't have a rear cargo tray.

Tube diameters are wide but rolson plastic clipped bungees fit. I did put some muc off slime equivalent in the tyres and the front guard desparately needed a flap fitted so that the downtube did not get covered in cr4p. The front light is also be seen and not see as the beam shape is amazingly rectangular.

Still a bit concerned about new tyres if they are ever needed, particularly with the rad not currently shipping to the UK.