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Overall Shimano's non-hollow tech cranks seem a lot less prone to catastrophic snapping than their hollowtech brethren. I've yet to read a report of a Zee or Deore (non hollowtech version, FC591 and back and now the new FC500 and FC600).
The FC591 spider weights 650 grams 104 BCD, how does the FC500/600 one compare 94 BCD?
This is your second thread on Hollowtech cranks snapping. It really isn't a thing. They're about the most reliable cranks out there, I'd be stunned if 0.001% of their cranks snap. Stop worrying about it and buy the cranks you want.
Reverse AstroTurf?
I wondered that. Properly random. Would be amazing though, given I'd bet money that failure rate on Shimano is lower than any other brand out there!
It is a thing, even on this forum there are several people who have had them snap.
Why would you want to pay more and to save 60 grams to get a worse crank with a real risk of catastrophic failure as little in as little as 2 years? Don't be a fashion victim.
Now what I want to know is if the new FC500 weighs a lot more than the old FC591, if not I'll exchange my SLX for one 🙂
Yes, out of thousands of people using them on multiple bikes. Everything breaks with a big enough sample size (like Shimano cranks). The usual failure mechanism is people wearing through the surface. Hardly surprising things break when you remove most of the material!
There's a "real risk" of everything breaking. It's 100% not worth worrying about.
Yomental
810g
+/- 7g
It is a thing, even on this forum there are several people who have had them snap.
You miss three statistically important things there.
There must be hundreds of people on this forum, mostly riding several bikes, who've not snapped a pair. If you think two pictures of snapped cranks are evidence, how many pics of bikes with intact cranks are there on the forum?
There must be plenty of people who've snapped solid cranks, I've seen one guy snap them in person, not some person on a forum. They're just not newsworthy.
Cheap cranks get upgraded or used by people who maybe don't ride as often. Imagine how many miles cranks like M970's must have done on hundreds of bikes in this forum (they've got a bit of cult status).
And there's an engineering fault to the argument, the hollow cranks are significantly stiffer and stiff components don't get fatigued.
This discussion could go for any part, nearly every part of a bike could break, most don't.
tough as !
Why are you banging on about this? I have ridden HT for ages with no problems.
He’s right though. It does happen. That’s why I don’t go outside. Hundreds of people get hit, and killed, by lightening every year.
Admittedly that’s slightly more people than have had hollowtech cranks snap, but it’s in the same ballpark I reckon.
thisisnotaspoon:
Let's say 500 people read the topic today, out of those 500 2 has snapped a hollowtech crank and bothered to reply about it - likely more. Out of those 500 200 use shimano hollowtech cranks to begin with. So 2/200 hollowtech cranks SNAP during their lifetime = around a 1% catastrophic failure rate, probably higher for me since I'm stronger and heavier than avg.
Are there plenty of people who have snapped solid deore or zee cranks? No negative reviews, no photos, people commending them for being strong. Doesn't seem like it happens, they seem to bend before they break which is a preferable failure mode.
Is that worth saving 60 grams AND paying more? No.
What a load of bullshit.
So just buy the Zee's, WGAS?
Why start two threads in a day on the topic?
Will you be buying non hollow bars too? Seat post? Downtubes?
Let’s say 500 people read the topic today, out of those 500 2 has snapped a hollowtech crank and bothered to reply about it – likely more. Out of those 500 200 use shimano hollowtech cranks to begin with. So 2/200 hollowtech cranks SNAP during their lifetime = around a 1% catastrophic failure rate, probably higher for me since I’m stronger and heavier than avg.
Are there plenty of people who have snapped solid deore or zee cranks? No negative reviews, no photos, people commending them for being strong. Doesn’t seem like it happens, they seem to bend before they break which is a preferable failure mode.
I assume you are neither a statistician or an engineer. There are so many flaws in your reasoning it's hilarious!
Better not get in a car, take a bath, or use your phone. Danger is everywhere.
Buy a solid frame too!!
...non hollow bars...
I'm trying to do a group buy to get some made.
He’s right though. It does happen. That’s why I don’t go outside. Hundreds of people get hit, and killed, by lightening every year.
That's why I only fly with Quantas
Will you be buying non hollow bars too? Seat post? Downtubes?
I buy brand name bars with a good rep, try to do the same for other components.
I assume you are neither a statistician or an engineer. There are so many flaws in your reasoning it’s hilarious!
Of course it's flawed, it's a rough estimate, but better than the ad hominem you gulped up. I've never said it's a big risk, but I'm saying why the heck buy hollowtech if you have a stronger option available for 60 grams more? FC500 looks good also.
So just buy the Zee’s, WGAS?
Why start two threads in a day on the topic?
This thread is about the weight of the FC500 crank.
I buy brand name bars with a good rep, try to do the same for other components.
Yeah, cos Shimano are up with the worst of them for their poor reputation...
I buy brand name bars with a good rep, try to do the same for other components.
Buy Shimano Hollowtech cranks.
Are tinfoil hats technically hollow?
Ooh, Latin. I wasn't making an ad hominem attack on you, just pointing out that danger can be viewed to be coming from anything you care to name.
To worry about a design that has been proven over many years and iterations, is to worry unnecessarily. If there was a serious and ongoing problem with these do you not think that Shimano wouldn't have changed it? We got lawyer tabs and thru axles on XC bikes due to one documented QR failure.
I'm advocating buying the new Shimano FC-MT500 or older Deore FC591 whichever is lighter and prettier to ur eyes and fit your narrow wides.
But I can't find any info on the new line, I've emailed a couple of retailers about its spider only weight. Cheers.
I’m advocating buying the new Shimano FC-MT500 or older Deore FC591
Advocating to who? you're the one asking the question. There must be at least hundreds of thousands of hollowtech cranks out there, and you have a bit of a superstition about them. Buy whatever you feel you want, but why on earth would you advocate?
Have you even seen a broken crank in real life?
Stuff on bikes breaks. When it does it is sometimes unfortunate. Sometimes brand new stuff breaks, sometimes old stuff wears out. Hollowtech cranks are no better or no worse than pretty much everything else on your bike in both aspects.
Imagine how many miles cranks like M970’s must have done
I dread to think what mine have done 10000 miles and still not snapped them yet
I’m advocating buying the new Shimano FC-MT500 or older Deore FC591 whichever is lighter and prettier to ur eyes and fit your narrow wides.
We know however your reason for doing so is somewhat flawed and your 500 readers thought experiment was hilariously flawed thinking.
Njee nailed it earlier everything else is just noise. They could snap ,someone will snap some, its not very likely to happen even to someone as awesomely strong and hard as you.
I have stripped pedal threads and worn the taper on square taper [ bracket and /or crank but never snapped any crank ever in my[ puny thighed] life [ frames, bars, and rims only for me[ bars was a crash so unfair to blame them]
Hollowtech cranks are no better or no worse than pretty much everything else on your bike in both aspects.
It's not superstition, of the people who read this post today that also own SLX cranks two had them SNAP. Also it's known among trial riders that they can snap from reading around and hence are cautioned against (granted, I don't ride trials). Non hollowtech ones simply don't seem to snap at all. So SLX and XT makes no sense as their only marginally lighter (50-60g) and more expensive than non-hollowtech deore (which is known to be very stiff, don't give me that but hollowtech is stiffer and that makes a difference crud).
We know however your reason for doing so is somewhat flawed and your 500 readers thought experiment was hilariously flawed thinking.
Since nobody has pointed out why it is straight up wrong I'm inclined to think it's pretty close to the truth. You don't necessarily need to get the steps right to get to a ballpark correct answer either. Ya'll statistician internet warrior engineers should know this.
Just stop riding. Problem solved.
dont listen to him I have done some internet research and this suggest that walking, much like debating with the OP, is sole destroying
IWGMC
Shimano have quite good lawyers you know. Titling threads
What does the new Shimano FC500 spider weigh? Since their hollowtech cranks snap
Could get you in some hot water without proof.....and before you repeat yourself 2 blokes on one thread on a forum does not empirical evidence make.
I could go over your reasoning and show you why it is so shit, but to be honest I spend all week arguing with idiots, so I can't be arsed.
*trembling*
It's a heck of a lot better evidence than all the ha-ha you're wrong because I said so nonsense I'm getting in this thread. Yeah, you can't be arsed to write a thoughtful reply you'd rather just troll. I dare you, find one snapped non hollowtech deore or zee crank.
But 95% of the posters on this thread think you wrong. Surely that must count for something. Or us the magic number 2?
Yeah, you can’t be arsed to write a thoughtful reply you’d rather just troll. I dare you, find one snapped non hollowtech deore or zee crank.
Trolling moi? I think you'll find you're the one making spurious and slightly bonkers claims on a web forum.
Night. Sleep tight. Hope you don't have horrible dreams about cranks snapping.
If you want to add something to this thread, either find the weight of FC MT500 spider only, or argue why my estimate say 4 year lifetime catastrophic failure rate is likely more than 2x lower. This is a bit like why not use chinese carbon handlebars, but just a bit.
95% of posters disagreeing agree just fine with a 1% lifetime failure rate btw. Admittedly the title is a bit flippant but I can't change it now -Ireckon it draws the wrong crowd ;P Most people used to believe the world was flat, some still do.
Cheers and gnite! I will get back to you tomorrow with some weights hopefully!
It’s a heck of a lot better evidence than all the ha-ha you’re wrong because I said so nonsense I’m getting in this thread.
two peope out of thousands who read your thread confirmed your bias,. Everyone else refuted it. you are free to perceive this as evidence to support your view but it is someway from proof they do , routinely snap, rather than the simple fact anything can snap - except your resolve on this point obvs
Yeah, you can’t be arsed to write a thoughtful reply you’d rather just troll.
They are aware you wont listen so they refrained. Plenty have tried to explain to you why its possible but so unlikely you should not worry - anymore than you do any other part of your bike snapping which can also happen. More facts wont sway you
I dare you, find one snapped non hollowtech deore or zee crank.
Aye they never ever failed under any sort of use ever so buy them second hand as that is definitely safer
95% of posters disagreeing agree just fine with a 1% lifetime failure rate btw.
well i think that nicely clarified your thinking for us all
If something on a bike is going to snap, I'd rather it was the crank and not the frame.
Have you seen the stats of people riding Zee and Saint cranks that have smashed the crap out of their frames?
*shudder*
If it's bothering you so much, look at other brands, there are plenty out there.....
Ok maybe I was somewhat facetious in some of my responses, but this article will explain why you are reading the data in the way that you are....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
You are approaching the issue assuming a preconceived outcome, so you will only ever see the outcome you want.
Go old school with a square taper B.B. and crank
Have you considered that all those snapped cranks (whatever minuscule percentage that is) may have been due to MTBing loads and you’re planning to put them on your commuting bike?
Because they are MTB cranks. And there are probably more SLX, XT and XTR cranks in use than all other MTB cranks put together. Until SRAM got 1x happening practically everyone was on Shimano.
And something like a snapped crank is quite a big deal so you’re going to shout about it on the internet - but I bet it happens way less often than broken frames. How many of these cranks are in use? One million? More?
And this is for your commuter... Insert eye rolling and facepalm emojis.
two peope out of thousands who read your thread confirmed your bias
Thousands! I'm doubtful but you may be right. Around 25 unique users posted, according to the 1% rule 2500 users read the thread https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_(Internet_culture) but since It's a question I think it's probably somewhere between 500 and 2500.
They are aware you wont listen so they refrained. Plenty have tried to explain to you why its possible but so unlikely you should not worry – anymore than you do any other part of your bike snapping which can also happen. More facts wont sway you
Well I haven't been presented with any facts, but I proved you wrong above kekeke I wouldn't mind buying a second hand zee crank.
And this is for your commuter… Insert eye rolling and facepalm emojis.
<div id="singl-7cb4c347c242c3b206d1284099388f2c">I don't really commute, more A-B and fooling around. I crank it pretty hard, but don't do 10 ft drops either. I do bike on roads a lot so I don't want any snap action to happen in traffic.</div>
<div id="singl-ff1be3a6247f0cdb57bd53cb29b0db13"></div>
[i]yohandsome wrote:[/i]
If you want to add something to this thread, either find the weight of FC MT500 spider only, or argue why my estimate say 4 year lifetime catastrophic failure rate is likely more than 2x lower.
If I do that will you pay any attention? Who knows, but here goes anyway, you can't say we haven't tried...
[i]yohandsome wrote:[/i]
two peope out of thousands who read your thread confirmed your bias
Thousands! I’m doubtful but you may be right. Around 25 unique users posted, according to the 1% rule 2500 users read the thread https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_(Internet_culture) but since It’s a question I think it’s probably somewhere between 500 and 2500.
On the first bit, firstly you're misusing the rule - it's about the proportion who lurk relative to posting on a forum in general, not a particular thread. Logically the proportion posting on a thread relative to those reading it is far, far lower than that because there are lots of threads and even prolific posters only post on a fraction of them - I CBA checking the exact stats (do your own research), but it's easy enough to find the number of people posting on here relative to the number posting on your thread - you'll find only a small fraction of the regular posters have commented.
The second bit - please tell me you're joking? You're asking a question about breaking cranks - at which point you have to count not just the lurkers on your thread, but the lurkers on the whole forum - do you seriously think those who've broken cranks aren't far more statistically likely to open your thread and post than the average forum user? Right there you have confirmation bias and serious skewing of your stats.
Though it's kind of amusing that you start by being dubious about it being thousands, but that's within the range of even your guesswork calculation.
I've been a bike mechanic for 15 years now, for my sins. I've seen plenty of prematurly broken stuff. I'm yet to see a broken Shimano HT2 crank.
Stop Press
I've bent a solid crank, can't remember how but the end result was I had to replace it.
It was either Shimano, Truvativ, Bontrager or Firex so you'd better strike them off that list.
Seeing as you haven't considered breaking a crank by bending, you have a skewed result and based on superfluous Wikipedia forum usage stats, I'd wager that there have been more bent solid cranks than cracked solid ones.
The only snapped crank I’ve seen personally was a Middleburn set back in 1996. They were the ones where the square taper was set in the ‘wrong’ orientation & they snapped there.
I’ve seen one or two hamfisted attempts to fit pedals result in knackered cranks & even some cut off when extractor threads have been ruined.
No other snapped ones though. I’ve been riding bikes since before Hollowtech was a thing, I spent 5-6 years in the trade & even on here since the days of dial-up & GoFar I don’t remember it being something that comes up much at all.
I really do, all jokes about you being a bit mental aside, think that you are overthinking this just a little bit.
Buy a set of each cranks you are interested in, weigh them?
Email the manufacturer and ask what their rider weight and power limits are for each product, this should eliminate anything you are over... (I'm not sure if you have mentioned what your stats are)
A third thread should clarify the situation
20yrs + of riding bikes, I’ve never snapped a crank & never seen one. Anecdotally, I’ve heard of maybe 3...including yours.
Its in your head IMHO..
Beaten to it by bigjim 😀
A third thread should clarify the situation
(Have I just missed some irony? 😐 )
EDIT : Yes, clearly, I have. 🙁
Email the manufacturer and ask ...
Maybe he did, and the manufacturer then attempted a huge cover up...
probably higher for me since I’m stronger and heavier than avg.
Well that's nicely counter balanced by your reasoning 🙂
Suggest we ask Geoff Capes for his input, if you are of the same age group as me.
Been biking for about 25 years and never heard such bollox about cranks before.
From an above average weight rider
You could drill a hole in them and fill them with an appropiately strong yet light metal.
I bet you have a 100% lifetime failure rate.
Have you personal experience of snapping cranks?
Have you personal experience of snapping cranks?
Because I don't use approved 'industry standards' combinations on my bike I get lots of pedal strikes causing breakage of the cranks every other ride. I have been using superglue untill now, however they just snap again right next to my repair.
I was thinking of pouring molten lead in, so it will be flexy in the centre with a stiff Alu crust, hopefully this will solve the problem and I will be the go to man for technical help on the internetz.
regards
Let’s give it a rest. Some of this is uncomfortably close to becoming bullying,
I disagree. Don't mistake my stupidity for such.
I disagree. Don’t mistake my stupidity for such
Sorry, I was not referring to you.
There’s some lovely people on here.
I’m going to poke my head over the parapet here. The SLX crank I broke was the one with the massive bash ring and steel pedal inserts, it looked and felt indestructible so was treated as such and its not really a shock it failed.
jamj1974
Let’s give it a rest. Some of this is uncomfortably close to becoming bullying,
I agree.