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Why not ask yourself which event could you ride in. Make the skill bit relate to what you can do yourself.
Having seen a few WC DH races I can say I couldnt even walk those courses. Some of the WC XC course at La Bress I actually tired to ride when the event was over, some bits I was unable to do.
I can imagine just about mincing down an EWS course (missing out the big jumps), but not riding it fast, blind.
Road riding - anyone who can ride a bike can ride any course, sure not fast, but you could ride it fine.
I’d be surprised if they lasted beyond the first hour of the race.
Indeed, what odds would you give me on Chris Froome making it down Hardline?
I reckon BMX would be at the top every time. Countless hours every day entirely concentrated on refining that skill.
Trials, jump, etc, close siblings. But you could argue BMX encompasses both to some degree anyway.
Downhill obviously requires a lot of skill, but I think as long as you're comfortable and have the ability to relax in the face of imminent danger you're halfway there. And on a purely technical level, it's not necessarily any more skilful than XC, Enduro, or anything else.
Roadies always get all defensive about this kind of thing.
No-one's saying it takes NO skill to road race, just not as much as the other disciplines.
eg. Splashing through puddles on a kid's bike.
When it comes to road I think you really have to look at the definition of skill and work it out from there. Is fitness a skill? Is effective communication with other riders a skill? Plenty of stuff involved, but not easily quantifiable because you're comparing apples and oranges.
It's like comparing Formula 1 to Monster Trucks.
It’s like comparing Formula 1 to Monster Trucks.
Or combining monkeys and tennis.
Now that gives me an idea....
If road takes so much skill why are so many effing useless off road? It's not hard descending a road bike. Even with people about. It takes some control but nowhere near as much as say DH.
If you're thinking skill then at its core is actually controlling the movement of a bicycle. In which case it's hard to over look bmx. Front flip to nose manual to flair sort of thing? that takes control to another level.
If road takes so much skill why are so many effing useless off road? It’s not hard descending a road bike. Even with people about. It takes some control but nowhere near as much as say DH.
If you’re thinking skill then at its core is actually controlling the movement of a bicycle.
Huge technical skill in DH, but you're racing a clock, so pretty much zero skill required in terms of racing other competitors.
In a road race, how do you hold your position in a fluid and continually moving bunch? If someone else attacks, do you chase or not? If you're going to attack, where's the best place to do that, and how do the weather, route, road conditions and the other competitors affect that? What's your overall race strategy, and how do you handle the constantly changing tactical demands within the race? In a break, how do you build a cohesive group and drive it, but retain enough of an advantage to make a winning move yourself? If you're not the fastest person in the race, what tricks can you play to make other people work harder, or make them think you're stronger than you really are?
That's a wee taste of some of the skills involved in road racing, but I'd say there's a lot more skill involved in almost every cycling discipline than just "controlling the movement of a bicycle".
If you’re thinking skill then at its core is actually controlling the movement of a bicycle. In which case it’s hard to over look bmx. Front flip to nose manual to flair sort of thing? that takes control to another level.
Yeah but that's gymnastics or circus skills, not cycling.
Huge technical skill in DH, but you’re racing a clock, so pretty much zero skill required in terms of racing other competitors.
In a road race, how do you hold your position in a fluid and continually moving bunch? If someone else attacks, do you chase or not? If you’re going to attack, where’s the best place to do that, and how do the weather, route, road conditions and the other competitors affect that? What’s your overall race strategy, and how do you handle the constantly changing tactical demands within the race? In a break, how do you build a cohesive group and drive it, but retain enough of an advantage to make a winning move yourself? If you’re not the fastest person in the race, what tricks can you play to make other people work harder, or make them think you’re stronger than you really are?
That’s a wee taste of some of the skills involved in road racing, but I’d say there’s a lot more skill involved in almost every cycling discipline than just “controlling the movement of a bicycle”.
You're using 'skill' as an example to race, not ride a road bike. The amount of people who race, compared to those who ride (in pretty much any discipline, is probably less than 1%).
The skill level required to ride a road bike, on the road, is minimal. The skill to ride a DH bike, on a DH track, significantly higher.
I do think people forget that roadies are also from other disciplines as well. We don’t just pick up a road bike and ignore all other cycling. The vast majority of roadies I know are all very competent mountain bikers. Not international class obviously, but still handy enough. Some race XC others Enduro.
It’s like saying what takes the most skill, rugby or football. They are different sports that just happen to use a ball. Doesn’t mean they are comparable.
Nowadays I mainly ride road, fitness has always been important to me, but I still enjoy getting out on the mountain bike. I’ve raced crits, road races, XC and CX. Road racing is probably the easiest to come to terms with quickly. A lot of people on here are happy to ride black downhill but may have never been in a fast moving peloton doing 30mph inches away from the handlebars of the next rider and the wheel in front. It takes time to learn how to ride safely in a fast group while you are above threshold (and I don’t mean a club run on a Sunday with your mates).
I’d say that at the amateur level most roadies have decent bike handling skills, because as I mentioned earlier, we tend to do lots of different disciplines throughout our lives.
I’ve never done trials or BMX so can’t really comment, but looks even further removed from what I consider cycling. Probably similar to saying what is harder, dressage or the grand national?
if you can ride a bike across some hills and fields then that is essentially XC
What the actual f?
NO-ONE rides around fields, this hasn't happened since the 90s if it ever did.
XC race courses are loads of tight twisty singletrack, generally. Stop imagining yourself as a rufty tufty cool 'trail' rider and all these XC mincers trundling around a field (that's Cyclocross).
What people call 'trail', that's XC.
I do think people forget that roadies are also from other disciplines as well. We don’t just pick up a road bike and ignore all other cycling
It doesn't matter what other riding they do. They use less skill road racing than they would riding dh. Or splashing through puddles.
Or splashing through puddles.
Bloody tough, that...
It doesn’t matter what other riding they do. They use less skill road racing than they would riding dh. Or splashing through puddles.
Yep, put cycling pjs on, get on big full susser, ride for five minutes, maybe pedal, picking a line, drink a red bull. Tbf that’s a bit more skilful than xc which is trundling around a field.
Tbf that’s a bit more skilful than xc which is trundling around a field.
which in turn is a lot more skillful than roadie, which is essentially going for a jolly cruise in the countryside being towed along by your mates...
You've broken down the bigger wheeled disciplines but are still calling BMX just BMX which is crazy, some have called out flatland but you have race, dirt jumping, street riding, park riding and vert riding and some of these now over lap with park/ramp tricks being done on the streets.
For me, flatland is the most skilled discipline, most of the others require large kahunas but not much skill.
BMX is to MTB what track is to road.
Is where you learn the basic skills to make you a better rider when you make the step
I dont agree with this statement that BMX is the building step for MTB, there are lots and lots of MTB'ers who couldnt make the step to any of the BMX disciplines listed above! The only real steps they share is learning to ride a bike regardless of wheel sizes!
. I’ve raced crits, road races, XC and CX. Road racing is probably the easiest to come to terms with quickly.
Done similar but with track and tt as well, I found xc the easiest to come to terms with quickly - obviously apart from tt’ing and being very unfit.
which in turn is a lot more skillful than roadie, which is essentially going for a jolly cruise in the countryside being towed along by your mates…
Takes a lot of a skill to sit on a wheel and avoid taking any turns at the front;)
I love watching the big road races, tours etc, the tactics are fascinating as is the judgement & timing of when to attack or let people go and the bravery and skill of riders who can attack on the descents is something else. But most roadies are saying one of the biggest skills required is riding close to a other riders in a large group at high speed? So for 99.45% of road riders that's not required which leaves you riding tarmac on your own or maybe a couple of others. That certainly drops the skill required to participate way off the bottom of the list yes?
I think it would be accurate to say that 99.45% of the stw mountain biking holds no relation to dh or xc racing or the skill for them either so they’re down the bottom as well, just below road and cx;)
A solo mountainbike ride for me includes mud, roots, stream crossings jumps, drops & severe climbs littered with rocks & ruts.
A solo or group road ride on tarmac just does not compare. Simple?
Totally agree about flatland BMX, only been to one Cycle Show and found the flatland utterly mesmerising. Trials probably up there in terms of difficulty IMO.
I think I'd apply a kind of crash test dummy approach. DH I think with limited competence and a lot of luck you could make it down. XC / Enduro / Whatever, think pretty much the same. Freeride, I think there's less chance of survival, so I'm going:
1. Trials.
2. Freeride.
3. Flatland.
I'd like to see a RedBull TV series on multi discipline cycling.
As much as I hate to admit it, road riding generally doesn't take much skill, other than perhaps in a race within a group.
I use to be a semi competent mountain biker, could get down most stuff. Didn't go on the mtb for 2 years and by the time I returned all my skills had deserted me, I could barely stay upright on very basic trails.
DH
As above, some of the routes present a serious challenge just walking up them, let along hurtling down, where a lack of skill can be seriously dangerous. Hence red/black.
A solo mountainbike ride for me includes mud, roots, stream crossings jumps, drops & severe climbs littered with rocks & ruts.
A solo or group road ride on tarmac just does not compare. Simple?
Ah, I assumed "What cycling disciplines take the most skill" meant an open discussion of the different skills involved in the various cycling disciplines. I didn't realise that 7) Road was restricted to going for a pootle on tarmac.
DH I think with limited competence and a lot of luck you could make it down.
This tells me you've never seen a full blown DH course!
Maybe we're coming at this the wrong way: rather that start with the pro's, start with the novice. Trials and BMX for the win?
DH 1st then Enduro 4th have you ever seen the speed a pro-Enduro racer goes downhill, bearing in mind a fair few are ex DH'ers. Watching them a couple of years ago in Whistler was eye-opening at the speeds they go at.
Same as pro XC racers, flat out for over an hour and the modern xc course will often have jumps and drops.
If I had 6 months free to dedicate to any discipline, a coach, and unlimited time to practice within that 6 months this is how I reckon I'd get on..
Road riding..assuming I had the fitness I reckon I would be able to ride in the tour de France peloton after 6 months, or compete in a road crit (assuming race craft doesn't count as 'skills', as obviously those can take years to learn)
Mtb...I could probably get to a standard where I can ride down most stuff. But in 6 months could I get down fort bill in 4 min...not a chance in hell. I'd be lucky to break 10.
Dirt jumps...the obvious answer to this is I'd still be terrible after 6 months
BMX- likewise the same as dirt jumping...it would be a disaster
Mtb…I could probably get to a standard where I can ride down most stuff. But in 6 months could I get down fort bill in 4 min…not a chance in hell. I’d be lucky to break 10.
Takes the elite men 4 and a half...
Road riding..assuming I had the fitness I reckon I would be able to ride in the tour de France peloton after 6 months....
Yes, the Cavendish quote relayed above where he said the fast boys he rides with in the uk wouldn’t make it to the end of the neutralised section at the start of a stage might suggest otherwise.
I don't know how anyone can say that road riding or racing requires more skill than dh, enduro or bmx (any of it's sub genres). On a pure bike handling skills basis it makes no sense.
Take the top 20 ranked pros of each one and let them have a go at each other's discipline. I would be willing to bet my own money on pro dh'ers and enduro riders fairing a lot better at road racing than the roadies racing an EWS stage or Val Di Sole dh.
If I had 6 months free to dedicate to any discipline
Good way to look at it although I think you could dirt jump fairly well after 6 months. BMX takes a lot of practice and even as a fearless teenager I rode for 8 years and was obsessed with it but still not as good as a lot of people I see these days.
Take the top 20 ranked pros of each one and let them have a go at each other’s discipline. I would be willing to bet my own money on pro dh’ers and enduro riders fairing a lot better at road racing than the roadies racing an EWS stage or Val Di Sole dh.
And even if the DHers didn't do very well on the road, it would be down to a lack of fitness rather than a lack of skill.
The hulk would win TdF. Potentially make it down hardline by virtue of his indestructibility. But wouldn't be able to bunny hop.
"This tells me you’ve never seen a full blown DH course!"
Have ridden down a couple in the Alps. Granted, this was a decade ago so I'd imagine the level of tech has only gone up since. Around the same time I was watching locals doing trials. So my shady, purely personal comparison holds in my eyes. I required little in the way of skills to make it down the DH course, mostly it was rollable. Every move I was watching on the trials front involved using a skillset I didn't have.
"Take the top 20 ranked pros of each one and let them have a go at each other’s discipline. I would be willing to bet my own money on pro dh’ers and enduro riders fairing a lot better at road racing than the roadies racing an EWS stage or Val Di Sole dh."
Dunno about that, reckon a roadie could walk down a DH course quicker than a DHer could walk up a col. Still reckon it should be done tho, like a cycling Battle Royale.
I don’t know how anyone can say that road riding or racing requires more skill than dh, enduro or bmx (any of it’s sub genres).
Different disciplines, different skills, so the concept of comparing "more skilful" and "less skillful" by discipline doesn't make much sense.
On a pure bike handling skills basis it makes no sense.
Why would you only use "bike handling" as a measure of skill? Are you suggesting that DH, Enduro and BMX (mass start excepted) don't require the additional skills necessary to actually compete hand-to-hand against other riders?
Road riding..assuming I had the fitness I reckon I would be able to ride in the tour de France peloton after 6 months, or compete in a road crit (assuming race craft doesn’t count as ‘skills’, as obviously those can take years to learn)
You think racecraft can take years to learn, but wouldn't count it as a skill?
One of the ones I can't do because of lack of skill, I reckon. Jumping my shortcoming is balls (I do have most of the skills, I just don't use 'em much), climbing my shortcoming is fitness and laziness... So I'm going with trials.
(also, I've never seen a trials rider that couldn't turn their hand to the other things)
(also, I’ve never seen a trials rider that couldn’t turn their hand to the other things)
This, the best (non pro) riders I’ve ridden with are the ones that started out riding trials. Even after a looong time out of riding, as soon as they pick up a bike again, they’re up to speed, figuratively and literally.
Maybe this fella would know the answers
(also, I’ve never seen a trials rider that couldn’t turn their hand to the other things)
Trials riders have phenomenal core strength and "fitness" in a sort of weight lifting description. They might not be able to ride 100 miles in a road race bunch but in terms of that ability to actively recover (while balancing/bouncing) then redline again and repeat, it's pretty amazing. The best technical XC riders I've seen have all come from trials and/or BMX.
Dez, Brumotti vid isn't bad but my personal skillset would be all over that segment at 1:18.
Yes, the Cavendish quote relayed above where he said the fast boys he rides with in the uk wouldn’t make it to the end of the neutralised section at the start of a stage might suggest otherwise.
But that's clearly nonsense, although I'd love to hear someone try to justify it. I'm pretty sure that riding in the neutralized zone of a professional peloton is no harder than a cat 4 road race, namely because, whilst no faster, the people around you know what they are doing.
Either way, can't believe anyone is trying to make out road riding requires more skill than BMX, dh etc..and I say that as a roadie.
My intuitive answer is trials and park or flatland BMX.
DH is a very specific application of bike handling skill, enduro and XC are on the same spectrum but with endurance more of a factor.
Plenty of skill in road racing, obviously, but fitness is the deciding factor much more so than in DH, for example.
Note: For me, skill means the application of physical inputs to a bicycle. Not strategy or tactics.
Dez, Brumotti vid isn’t bad but my personal skillset would be all over that segment at 1:18.
I'm impressed. About 10 seconds for me.
But that’s clearly nonsense, although I’d love to hear someone try to justify it. I’m pretty sure that riding in the neutralized zone of a professional peloton is no harder than a cat 4 road race, namely because, whilst no faster, the people around you know what they are doing.
Yeah but they're also all fighting and jostling for position, trying to move up, trying to drop back to the team car, trying to stay with their leader, calling on the radio... "neutralised" is a misnomer.
Either way, can’t believe anyone is trying to make out road riding requires more skill than BMX, dh etc..and I say that as a roadie.
It's completely different skillset though. Less physical, much more mental. Need to know where your main opponents are, who they have left as team-mates, the terrain, an idea of how the race will pan out and the tactics to use, the ability to judge an attack - is it going to stick, is it some tactical call-my-bluff etc - knowing when to use your own attack, reading the road, judging your own physical condition...
In a 3rd Cat race you can pretty much dispense with a lot of that but it still takes a season to learn the ropes, work out where to sit in a bunch, how to stay there, how and when to move up, when to attack - just that the whole tactical game is much less nuanced.
Bike handling does come into it - if you're losing 5 bike lengths on every corner because you can't ride properly you'll burn all your physical matches and not win. It's just much less apparent and obvious than a more physical sport like DH or BMX.
I don't dispute the skill in road bike handling crazy legs, but it seems to me that the pros all have that base level of skill and it's usually the strongest rider who wins.
Whereas in DH they mostly have a base level of fitness and it's skill and clean technical execution which wins the race.
The answer to most skilled could well be ultra endurance cyclists. (The self supported ones.)
They do far more than just ride a bike so must have more skills.
During an event bmx and downhill riders don't have to worry about navigation, logistics, nutrition, fixing mechanicals against the clock, extreme sleep deprivation (which reduces the percentage of the cyclists total skill available for immediate use), sleep management, blister treatment, selecting the best hedge or ditch to bivvy in etc.
Isnt DH just pointing a bike in the right direction, having some balls and holding on? Not trying to troll, but maybe exaggerating to make my point. It looks extreme so looks like it involves a lot of skill, but I think its more about having the balls to do it.
Isnt DH just pointing a bike in the right direction, having some balls and holding on?
Of course, in the same way that road racing is mostly sitting in a bunch barely turning the pedals at 100W wondering what's in the bag at the next feed station. I'd imagine if you're not a sprinter on a flat stage, a domestic probably can't believe he gets paid to bimble across the countryside with his mates.
I haven't read every post but there seems to me to be a fair bit of confusing skill and bottle as well as comparing apples to oranges.
I would say trials / BMX flatland, whatever the gymnastics on a bike are called is the most skillfull - but requires little bottle.
I do not think road riding requires a huge amount of skill - but by 'eck some bottle required! I mean I have climbed and alpine pass and descended it at 60 mph. Not that hard ( of course the climb was a LOT slower). Doing it in a bunch - i simply do not have the bottle to do so
Isnt DH just pointing a bike in the right direction, having some balls and holding on? Not trying to troll, but maybe exaggerating to make my point. It looks extreme so looks like it involves a lot of skill, but I think its more about having the balls to do it.
You can DH by having a little skill and no fear. You can also do it by having a lot of skill and some fear. But to be the best you need amazing skills and also no fear.
Bike handling does come into it – if you’re losing 5 bike lengths on every corner because you can’t ride properly you’ll burn all your physical matches and not win. It’s just much less apparent and obvious than a more physical sport like DH or BMX.
I think that in road biking you need a basic minimum skill to not lose 5 bike lengths every corner, and handle the bunch; once you can do that then it's a game of fitness and tactics.
DH is purely about skill once you have the required fitness, I reckon. You can win or lose by a few tenths of a second, so that one mistake could cost you - and it'd be a mistake most of us wouldn't even see.
Just a tangential observation, but you know how some road riders have been mocked for lacking skills, e.g. Froome or Porte.
You don't get that with pro DH really, do you? Apart from some bell ends having a pop at the lower end of the women's field maybe.
Josh Bender?
but you know how some road riders have been mocked for lacking skills, e.g. Froome or Porte.You don’t get that with pro DH really, do you?
No, you don't, given that most roadie fans cream their knickers when their chosen ill fed walking drugs experiment pulls a wheelie across the line, and the commentators will happily eulogize the "mountain bike roots" of any tour rider who manages to navigate more than 3 consecutive bends in a bunch finish without stuffing it into the barrier, and let's be honest the only reason anyone watches the opening flat stages of the TDF is to watch them crash into each other again...and again and again...
I think it safe to say the entire DH field have better bike handling skills than most pro-roadies.
mountain bike roots” of any tour rider who manages to navigate more than 3 consecutive bends in a bunch finish without stuffing it into the barrier,
Mountain biking royalty 🙂
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q3OQAX90sFA
Most skill: Freeride, specifically Red Bull Rampage. Because anyone can 'have a go' at all the other disciplines but I don't think there many of us with the skill to face 20 meter drops and backflip 15m gaps in a desert.
Probably BMX second. The rest is just riding bikes.
sunnrider
MemberI don’t think there many of us with the skill to face 20 meter drops
I think a lot of us have the skill to do 20 meter drops or could build up to it fairly quickly- if you've got the skill to do a 2 meter drop then that scales. It's just, not in a million years could i actually do it, skill or no skill. My limit with drops is the point where I shit myself, not the point where I run out of skill. It's like gaps vs tabletops, the exact same skillset for both but one of them is scary.
There's definitely a case for bravery/getting past fear being a skill in itself. Not always, some people are just mad.
I suppose there's a case for riders like Semenuk, who combine going big with doing BMX-inspired tricks.
When I think of skilled riding I think of:
Brandon Semenuk
Chris Akrigg
Aaron Gwin
There’s lots more in their fields but those three are three different types of rider with remarkable skill. Watch Semenuk’s UnReal segment, Akrigg’s Five video and Gwin’s Mont St Anne 2017 win, and you’ll see the skill. If you can’t see it, then you’ll never understand why these riders are on another level in terms of skill vs any road cyclist.
Thanks chiefgrooveguru, I enjoyed those vids, especially Akrigg's.
I remember an interview with Alex Ferguson (bear with me) many years ago, when Ronaldo first turned up at Man United. The interviewer was talking about what a great footballer he already was at such a young age, and Ferguson replied with something like: "Well he's obviously talented, but he's like someone who can do thousands of card tricks. What we have to do now is teach him to play cards".
I guess I think of pro road cyclists as like pro poker players. It's not flash, you might not see what they're doing, and it cannot work on every occasion - it might even seem like luck. However, over time they will consistently win more than their opponents because they don't just know tricks, they know how to cycle.
Comparing - for example - Nibali riding the Giro to the videos above is daft; of course the videos look better. You're watching it so the best bits are cut together, and it has a funky soundtrack, and possible re-takes if mistakes were made, and it's 5 minutes long rather than 3 weeks. I reckon if Nibali had dedicated himself to that type of riding there isn't anything there he couldn't have done.
Just my take - if you prefer stunt riding then you'll obviously think differently.
“You’re watching it so the best bits are cut together, and it has a funky soundtrack, and possible re-takes if mistakes were made”
Akrigg’s indeed is edited together. The other two videos consist of an uncut single continuous take (using just one camera) and a race winning run where somehow Gwin managed to do a faster wet run than the leading riding who’d come down the hill earlier before the heavens opened.
Arguing that road cycling requires a similar level of skill is just silly. We all only have a finite number of hours to train at a sport. A balance has to be found between working on skill and working on fitness. The answer to this question is simply to look at their training schedule. The more time spent on skills over fitness, the more important skill is. Or ask a coach.
“The interviewer was talking about what a great footballer he already was at such a young age, and Ferguson replied with something like: “Well he’s obviously talented, but he’s like someone who can do thousands of card tricks. What we have to do now is teach him to play cards”.“
This shows a deep lack of understanding of freeride or downhill. Semenuk is so good he almost never crashes - his skill level is freakish. And Gwin managed to completely dominate the field for years. They have the depth and breadth of ability to apply their skills and win. It isn’t stunt riding. Akrigg’s is to a much greater degree but not those two.
I wasn't trying to insult anyone, and I wan't saying that Semenuk or Guin just knew 'card tricks'.
My point was that the flasher looking stuff can be easier than the mundane looking stuff, which can take years to achieve and sometimes hardly looks like a 'skill' at all.
Arguing that road cycling requires a similar level of skill is just silly.
Trying to rank different disciplines that use different skills in a single list is silly.
MTB Bog Snorkelling
Trying to rank different disciplines that use different skills in a single list is silly.
Or just a harmless bit of lockdown fun, until people start being dicks about it.
My point was that the flasher looking stuff can be easier than the mundane looking stuff,
It's probably easier to win a world cup down hill than it is to win a grand tour (I'll win neither), so I get your point. But the difference is that a grand tour is won primarily on fitness, whereas a downhill is won primarily on skill. No one ever won the tour by being the best bike handler. On the contary, froome won a couple of tours with skills I'm sure even some of the stw forum members could match.
whereas a downhill is won primarily on skill.
I dunno, look at what Aaron Gwin and the like brought to the sport, look what happened when Bryceland focused on fitness for a season. I think DH in general plays down the fitness aspect. Comparing DH to GTs is like comparing the 100/200m dash to a marathon. Both need fitness, just different types fitness.
Trying to rank different disciplines that use different skills in a single list is silly.
Translation: I want it so much to be the roadies, but it's plain that they really don't have much in the way of skills on a bike*
* don't get me wrong, I stand in slack jawed admiration of anyone who can subject themselves to the sort of regimes that in another time and place would look very much like torture, in order to win a Grand Tour.
When thinking about what makes somebody skillful on a bike, I'm not sure that fitness falls into three main criteria. Unless you're only going to focus on people who ride bikes forwards over exceptionally long distances.
I'd list balance, coordination and strength above fitness. Racecraft is an altogether separate skill that some members of the peloton posess more of than others, but it's not a cycling skill.
Gwinn is imo past his prime, but this footage alone shows how someone using pure skill can win a WC without pedaling.
tomhoward
I dunno, look at what Aaron Gwin and the like brought to the sport, look what happened when Bryceland focused on fitness for a season.
Not sure the likes of Atherton and Minnaar were lacking in fitness and strength training pre-Gwin.
And Steve Peat did a massive amount of elbow bend training.
Having given it some more thought. The thing I think excludes the road riders from the top of the list about skill for me anyway, is the perhaps somewhat formulaic/scientific approach to modern road riding. Organisations like Sky and now Ineos have worked out that such and such a power output over such and such a time, and your more than likely as not to be in a winning position. Control the rest as much as you can, and likely as not one of your team will win. It's a perfect approach if your goal is multi-stage road racing, It's how they've won so much over the last couple of years. It's the F1 approach to cycling.
"All" you have to do is identify who the rider is who can follow a regime and hit the output/weight points on the programme. That is a skill, but bike handling is never going to be at the top of the list of requirements.
,It’s how they’ve won so much over the last couple of years.
Which outside of GTs and stage racing isn’t that much.
"I dunno, look at what Aaron Gwin and the like brought to the sport, look what happened when Bryceland focused on fitness for a season. I think DH in general plays down the fitness aspect."
In DH you need enough fitness to be able to apply your skill as you progress down the track. In road cycling you need enough skill to be able to apply your fitness as you progress along the course. They're opposites when it comes to training focus.
I know that Gwin has said that his fitness always holds him back somewhat and he's one of the strongest and fittest riders in DH - it's an impossible puzzle to solve because you need a lot of strength and you need a lot of endurance and training one tends to counter the other, plus if you're training hard in the gym or on the road bike you still have to leave enough in the tank to also be able to ride your DH bike hard and keep your skills sharp.
As a fully fledged roadie I’m in NickC and the Chiefs camp on this. Road racing isn’t defunct of skill, but if you were to say what needed the most skill to compete, then I’d go with DH and even modern XC.
But there are really skilled riders in the pro peloton, and it’s especially prominent in the early season classic and monuments. Also I think an aspect of road racing here that has been overlooked is the fact that on fast 60mph descents we only see a handful of the guys on TV. What we don’t see is the peloton descending the same speed but in extremely close proximity of the other riders. Cavendish made this point a few years ago, along the lines of Nibali is a good descender but he rarely has to descend with the main group, that’s where the top descenders are (paraphrased by me). But I do think the majority of DH riders would pick up most road skills incredibly easily, whilst it is unlikely to be so transferable from road skills to DH.
In DH you need enough fitness to be able to apply your skill as you progress down the track. In road cycling you need enough skill to be able to apply your fitness as you progress along the course. They’re opposites when it comes to training focus.
I made a similar point a page or so ago, but people aren't interested in engaging with nuances.
They'll just read it as "there's no skill in road riding" and go off on one.