[Closed] What Brakes - Upgrade From Deore

Well 300 gives you some bling choices

https://www.merlincycles.com/road-disc-brakes-1-93734/?brand=hope&currency=GBP

Try going 203mm / 180mm with the deores first.

Makes quite a difference to the power and feel. I don't feel the need to charge mine for anything now.

Fingers crossed the answer is Hopes as that's the way I've gone.

I doubt you'd find much a huge step up from Deore's, they're basically the same as the M7000/M8000.

If you have to spend £300, it may as well be Hope because they look nice.

A few lads at the local bike shop swear by Formula brakes - not 100% which model they're all running, but I *think* It'll be the Cura (Enduro/All mountain).

They're certainly on my list for when (not if) any of the various Shimano sets I've got fail out of warranty.

Really miffed at Shimano, they used to be the default (particularly for someone that detests SRAM/Avid brakes) but their reliability is dreadful.  Every set I have (1 x Zees, 1 x XT, 2 x SLX) have failed - leaked/got the wandering bite-point/lever stops springing back/completely loses all bite and stopping power - within 6-12 months use.

Sorely tempted to cough up for a set of Hope V4's if/when I can afford them one day too mind...

What sort of upgrade are you looking for?. If you want them to stop better then bigger disks is the place to start.

Try going 203mm / 180mm with the deores first.

Makes quite a difference to the power and feel. I don’t feel the need to charge mine for anything now.

Did that with mine and confirm it helps! They still get spongy on occasion though, and seem to need bled 3-4 times per year which is pretty annoying.

Every set I have (1 x Zees, 1 x XT, 2 x SLX) have failed – leaked/got the wandering bite-point/lever stops springing back/completely loses all bite and stopping power – within 6-12 months use.

Yep, Deore are the only ones I've had that have been properly reliable.

If I were speccing an enduro bike from new I'd probably still go for Zee, just because they feel so great and work most of the time, but totally happy to keep the 2014 Deores on my trail bike. Bigger front rotor has made them a bit less grabby too.

get bigger discs - you won't find any difference in brakes unless you get zee/saint and even then its more about modulation that out-right power.

Apparently, these have more stopping power than zee/ saint, but without the reliability probs.

https://www.merlincycles.com/magura-mt-trail-sport-disc-brake-set-2017-102037.html

I've got XT M785's and apparently the Deore M615 are just as powerful but will heat up quicker (not a problem in this country). I too have just gone from 180/160mm to 200/180mm rotors for a uplift day (that got cancelled due to the weather). Been trail riding with the bigger rotors on and so far I really like the feel and modulation on offer compared to the 180/160mm.

Much cheaper than a new set of brakes if you like the feel and shape of the lever of the Deores.

Are Zee unreliable in general (ie not just an internet myth or poor bleeding technique)?  Was considering them for a build and most reviews seem fine - what are the issues?

I should add I still have an XT M755 - the old four pot Grimeca one up front and it has been truly faultless for something like 16 years now!  All the power and modulation you could want.

Same seals, hose - only ever changed fluid or bled it about five times!

I used to recommend Shimano but they're just too inconsistent these days, the reliability and performance is all over the place. I like Sram Guides but again reliability is patchy. Hope are expensive, and there are more powerful brakes out there, but they are bombproof, spares are easy to come by and the back up if anything every did go wrong is superb. £300 should you get a nice set of Tech 3 E4's, which are great brake. I've got some E4's with the lighter Race lever and they're ace, enough power, loads of modulation and they just work!

Definitely try the bigger rotors - of the Shimano brakes I've recently had (deore, XT, XTR Trail and XT's) teh Deore's were the most reliable by some distance and the power with big rotors was good.

I'm now on SRAM Guide RSC's and think they're bloody brilliant; powerful and so far perfectly reliable in the two and a bit years I've been using them (on my trail bike and DH bike). It required some serious brave pills to buy SRAM brakes but so far so good. Plus they inetgrate nicely with my Revern and SRAM shifter.

I'am a big fan of the Deore stuff. If brake power is an issue: like proposed above - bigger rotors! Deore brake adapters and rotors is little money invested... The Deore brakes last 3-5 years (lots and lots of mud biking)? Mine at least. When they start doing goofy stuff I buy new ones.

Other option:

bike-discount has a sale for the Magura MT5 right now:

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/magura-mt5-disc-brake-set-528592?currency=3&delivery_country=190

These with low cost shimano rotors (203 / 180 or similar). The MT5 is an fantastic brake. In our bike group some have these on their bikes - they are more than happy with those. RRP is too high - but above sale quite neat.

Apparently, these have more stopping power than zee/ saint, but without the reliability probs.

since when did Zee/saint have reliability issues?

Watching this as my 9yr old SLXes are finally beginning to be beyond bleeding and need replacing . I was just going to replace with the current generation SLX but there seem to be so many reports on here of dodgy reliability on current Shimano that I am looking elsewhere. Had formula- not that reliable so thinking about Magura. How easily available are pads from the cheapo manufacturers?

Oh and do they play nicely with shimano discs? Somebody told me that Magura discs are a different thickness making their callipers work badly with non original discs.

since when did Zee/saint have reliability issues?

Mine were a pain in the arse, my mates Zee's are a pain the arse too - wandering bite point, inconsistant power etc. Lots of people at the local DH trails moaning about them too.

Are the BR-M500 model brakes deore level? These are the only parts on a new bike that might need to email replacing after a few wet and muddy rides!

I'm looking for a pair of cheap deores for my gfs bike - if anyone's got a fully working pair for sale email me at robowns at hotmail dot com.

I used to run formula's and they were fine. Very nice feel to them but started to have some issues after about 18months with them. Probably my fault as I really don't do regular maintenance, but anyway I eneded up replacing with Hope's as I changed bike and went the Hope route and had zero issues in 2 - 2.5 yeas of zero maintenance (apart from pad changes) and they've been brill so far. I retained the formula discs initially, but they soon warped when used with the Hopes for some reason, so replaced with Hope discs and again, no issues since.

My only experience with Shimano brakes are when fitted to bikes I rode on a few demo's I've done and I've never been impressed with Shimano's. Just not a nice feel to me - appreciate this is a personal thing and just what you're used to. Found them lacking in feel and a bit grindy and squealy. Pretty consistent feel across the few bikes I rode them with but definitely didn't make a good impression on me.

So I'm happy with my Hope E4's and would whole heartedly recommend them. But the Formulas were just as good.

Mine were a pain in the arse, my mates Zee’s are a pain the arse too – wandering bite point, inconsistant power etc. Lots of people at the local DH trails moaning about them too.

must have been unlucky or didn't bleed them right.  both my zee and saint have been faultless

TBF the Zees are notorious for wandering bite point, but IME you just have to make sure you "pump" them up before you drop into a trail. Had some scary moments when I've forgotten.

Dunno about Saints, hardly anyone buys them 'cos Zee are so similar and half the price.

I still have Zees on my enduro bike and still love 'em.

must have been unlucky or didn’t bleed them right.

I think there's enough evidence for me to suggest that Shimano ahve dropped the ball big time. My M800 Saints were brilliant and never needed touching. My Zee's were a pain in the arse, just not quite to the extent that my XRT's were.

Maybe you were just lucky?

I've just fitted a set of these after reading lots of good reviews and they're ace, also only £155 delivered for a bike set if you sign up to their email newsletter and get the £5 voucher code:

https://www.tweekscycles.com/Product.do?method=view&n=3401&g=1349931&p=1350410&d=124&c=4&l=2&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Base&utm_campaign=Disc%20Brakes&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpunxl5ut2gIVh5PtCh1UTQP0EAQYASABEgKb_fD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Guide RE's, they're originally designed for E-bikes so they have the Code (downhill) 4-pot caliper but combined with the slightly less expensive Guide levers. Absolutely love them.

I think there’s enough evidence for me to suggest that Shimano ahve dropped the ball big time. My M800 Saints were brilliant and never needed touching. My Zee’s were a pain in the arse, just not quite to the extent that my XRT’s were.

Maybe you were just lucky?

Jumping in on that point, but I might be lucky too, but it might also be a case of the more you practice the luckier you get,  Bleeding them once solved nothing, they were still really bad for randomly pulling to the bars (especially after a fast section with no braking which was nice) bleeding them again EXACTLY as the shimano tec docs said (not the instructions that came with the 3rd party bleed kit) and they've been completely faultless.

Unless you have an actual leak I think Shimano have just managed to do what SRAM did with later Elixirs (I think they messed up on bladder material on early ones, my first pair the rubber looked like it had swelled but later pairs worked fine) in building a fantastically powerful brake that's an utter pain in the ass to bleed properly (and telling people on the internet they've just bled it wrong just seems to make them angry................lights blue touch paper and runs).

I've had my E4s for about 18 months. Love them. Problem free.

Jumping in on that point, but I might be lucky too, but it might also be a case of the more you practice the luckier you get,  Bleeding them once solved nothing, they were still really bad for randomly pulling to the bars (especially after a fast section with no braking which was nice) bleeding them again EXACTLY as the shimano tec docs said (not the instructions that came with the 3rd party bleed kit) and they’ve been completely faultless.

They were bleed many times, with the little yellow funnel as per the instructions. Not just me - my mate and other riders seemed to have the same issues with them. My XT's went back to Madison for a facrtory bleed and were still shit. My Deore's on the other hand were perfectly reliable.

Most people whinge that the earlier Guides are a pain to bleed - I find mine easy to bleed.

Between the two of us my OH and I have had deore through xt of the last generation and the deore 615s have been the most reliable, then SLX, then XT. (Best for reliability remains my old set of 775s, which are 8 years old and can't have been bled for years).

I'd second the comments about trying bigger rotors first.

For those having trouble getting a good bleed, I have found with a set that's had a hard life you can get contaminated/degraded fluid, or possibly just dirt, pooling at the bottom of the caliper. A normal bleed doesn't get any of that out as it seems to be the heaviest part of the fluid. Holding the caliper with the bleed port down during the bleed and giving it a tap can release some black gunge from an otherwise solid looking bleed. It doesn't always work but it's worth a go if you're having problems.

I think the problem as always with 'internet' discussions like this and 'a mate of a mate said they were crap' is you can never get an idea of how many riders are perfectly happy as the ones with issues always tend to be far more vocal.  The general reviews, tests and buyer reviews (CRC etc) for SLX and Zee don't seem to reflect the bad reports on this topic with excellent feedback compared to very few negatives??

Would recommend staying with Deore esp if yours are working OK. Mine have been insanely good since I bled them (spent prob 20 mins flicking each hose to get every last bubble out.

Went out yesterday for the first time in a while on the Tech3/E4 bike and while they're undeniably more powerful they lack the immediate bite of the Deores in speed scrubbing situations

Are Zee unreliable in general

For balance mine have been faultless on three bikes

Keep em clean and bleed em mean as they say

I would also second/third/fourth the rotors upgrade first.

Of all my disc brakes (XT, SLX, Deore, Magura) I prefer my current Deore over the lot.

Running 180/160 RT86 rotors on a 29+ bike with a 100kg rider they have been fault free since fitting and have plenty of power.

If I wanted more I would go 180/180 or possibly 200/180 rotors wise.

The immediate bite of Shimano is something I hated. I felt my XT were too grabby. The Hopes can stop me sharply when I want to, but just feel more progressive, lever feel is nicer, and they look ace too. More reliable than my XTs which leaked twice.

I was debating with myself over whether to get deore, I ended up getting sram level tl with 180/160 rotors and I'm quite happy with them.

Quite capable of throwing you over the bars or locking the back wheel if you pull hard, but lots of modulation before you get to that point.

They can howl a bit when wet, but that stops when the dampness has been burned off.

Depends on the riding you do though, they are single pot calipers and you might want 2 pot calipers for more extreme stuff, the levels are more an xc brake.

Edit, I'm running on deore/xt ice tech rotors if that makes any difference.

I'd definately be considering the New Formula Cura brakes. I've always been impressed and never disappointed with Formula brakes.

Hope would be on the list too, for the same reasons as above, and every spare part is easily available should you ever need it.

There was somewhere the question if Magura brakes "match" with Shimano rotors.

As far as I know: no problems at all!

^Magura brake discs are 2.0mm everyone else's are 1.8mm.

To those with Shimano issues - how are you bleeding them?  The syringe forcing fluid from the caliper into the master cylinder/funnel or the old traditional way (before funnels etc) and the same way automotive brakes have always been bled?  ie drain tube into bottle on caliper bleed valve, fill master cylinder, open caliper bleed valve, squeeze lever, close valve, release lever, open valve, squeeze lever, close valve, release lever etc/repeat/top up master cylinder during process.  Cable tie round lever overnight.  Remove and ride in morning = hassle free brakes for years.

This has always been my experience with the older models and have not re-bled my 755 for probably two or three years now - do the newer ones just fail in some other way?  Just struggling to see what there is to go wrong?

Some companies' 'lightweight' discs are often about 1.6mm. Hope are, or have been, for 160mm and smaller.

Just struggling to see what there is to go wrong?

'tis a bit frustrating that Shimano, the biggest and most sophisticated bike component manufacturer in the world, can't make hydraulic brakes that just bloody work!

Well, apart from the Deores, obvs

I've had a set of Deore's, 2 Calipers replaced under the 2 year warranty due to leaking mineral oil onto the pads after about a years use!