[Closed] What actually makes a MTB 'fast'

The rider.

^^^

This.

What they said, that's why mine are generally slow :-\

Me

What jekkyl said.
Top riders came make shit bikes fast. And duffers like all of us can make amazing bikes slow

I agree with that, certainly.

Fluo clothing and goggles with an open helmet.

Oh, and having the correct wheel size, obviously.

make amazing bikes slow

What makes a bike fast?

I found that if I took off those two metal ring/disk things bolted on to each wheel I went a lot quicker 😆

The rider, and a bike that the rider gets on with.

Interesting that it's a commonly referred to trait in media as though the bike itself is qualitatively fast, just an observation.

What makes a bike amazing. .... no idea really but the mag editors seem to think they know.
I just know that I like my bikes and that's as far as I can tell

A big f'king hill.

Didn't enduro mag test loads of bikes with loads of different riders and aggregate the times? I think the yt Capra was a clear winner with every rider posting fastest times while on it. So, with the same rider, what makes a bike faster than others??

To go fast you need confidence and skill, to have confidence will need a certain combination of things that will vary from rider to rider.

But assuming the same rider I'd guess at various combinations of the following will affect the speed they can achieve over a given downhill trail, in order of priority:-

- suspension performance - ie how well the front & rear wheels track the bumps in the ground without passing the bump through to you, ie how well the suspension insulates you from the shocks, but keeps you aware of whats going on.
- bike geometry - ie your position (ie centre of gravity) in relation to the various controls and contact points between bike and ground, so head angle, wheelbase, reach
- braking performance - related to suspension performance (and tyres/brakes) - ie better suspension = better braking all other things being equal.

Its not always the rider or we'd all be riding round on supermarket bikes

Fast MTBs are the same as fast motorbikes or fast cars or fast anything. They all remove or dilute the sensations of speed, so we go faster without realising it. Noise, vibration, too much feedback, anything that distracts us slows us down

What Julians said.

As above the more sorted the bounce and speed control is the faster the bike will be under any rider. What makes a bike amazing is how it suits the riders shape, skills and style of riding, one mans amazeballs is another mans poopchariot.

IMO a bike feels fast when it's light and skittish over bumps

I'm not sure that's actually fast though

*GUESS ALERT* :
If it's the fastest option for a majority of riders it's probably not a hard bike to ride and maybe not what a really good rider would want if they were racing

just done what felt like a fairly steady smooth run down sidewinder at afan following a mate on my On-one Codeine, didn't feel fast but according to GPS was way faster than on my previous fast bike (Kona coilair with more travel). The bike just feels like it was made for me I think that's what makes a bike amazing.

If it's the fastest option for a majority of riders it's probably not a hard bike to ride and maybe not what a really good rider would want if they were racing

Very much certain this is the case. I used to race DH and the setups of the proper fast boys were different to mine, if I set my bike up like theirs it would make me slower (against the clock)... makes sense. They're hitting stuff harder and faster, leaning the bike more etc.

Of course it could all be a bit chicken and egg...

I'll ditto the above about what feels fast often is being sketchy and not actually fast...except when you're right on the ragged edge.

A couple of years ago MBR took the chains off about 5 or 6 bikes and timed them over several runs down a well known Surrey trail. Interesting results with some significant gaps, so yes, some bikes are just faster. Enduro mag (online webzine type thing) did a sort of similar test last year and took about 12 bikes down one of the timed trails used in the Finale Ligure world enduro race. Some were non-standard bikes though, but still made interesting comparisons.

http://www.mbr.co.uk/reviews/full-suspension-bikes/which-is-fastest-five-150mm-carbon-bikes-take-the-speed-challenge

For the Enduro mag you need Issue 10 - http://enduro-mtb.com/en/magazine/

Strava says (which you can take as you will) that I am faster everywhere on my Stumpjumper Evo compared to my Orange. Head angle is similar, fork the same, bars wider, stem longer, chainstays shorter, BB lower. It generally feels slower. It weighs about 7-8lbs less.

Someone that knows more about bike design and riding a bike really bloody quick will be able to tell you why those things make me faster, but I certainly don't feel more confident on it.

Didn't enduro mag test loads of bikes with loads of different riders and aggregate the times? I think the yt Capra was a clear winner with every rider posting fastest times while on it. So, with the same rider, what makes a bike faster than others??

Canyon Spectral was the quickest, closely followed by a Spec E29.

Put me on Gee Athertons bike, and Atherton on mine. Who would win that race......no contest. Its the rider, not the bike, unless you are an elite rider then every little helps.

My XC race bike is the fastest thing I've ridden by miles, as long as it's not too rocky. It's 26" and has 80mm of travel up front and 63mm rear. But for some reason it rolls insanely fast, so much so that on certain fast singletrack I had to brake in places I never normally would to avoid major accidents.

However, I'd say that instant speed and learned speed are not the same thing. My Patriot is now insanely fast some 7 years after I got it where it wasn't that quick before, because I've fettled the setup and learned how to ride it that way. The right setup has opened the door to improve my ability.

Its the rider, not the bike

Dur, no-one's arguing that a bike makes more difference than a rider. That'd be really stupid. The question in the thread however is GIVEN THE SAME RIDER why are some bikes faster than others. If it were nothing to do with the bike thne the bike would not matter but it clearly does. I'm sure Gee Atherton would manage Fort Bill just fine on an 80mm hardtail but he'd be a fair bit slower than his DH bike.

Of my various bikes, I'd say that my 96 Klein Pulse Comp[i]feels[/i] faster than any of my other bikes. It just feels like it accelerates faster than the others. I haven't timed anything, but it sure seems like a stomp on the pedals is efficiently converted to forward motion. That's probably due to a number of things:

- light weight
- racier, more stretched out position
- higher low gear ratio (means that I can't slack off in a really low gear)
- short wheelbase and steep head angle (quick handling)

But its an old bike with dated technology (elastomer fork, canti brakes) so there is no question that it would be slower than a more modern bike over a timed course unless is was very nontechnical.

I think that the fastest bike I've ever owned was a 'Dale F3000SL (ex-team bike). That, I'd suggest, was fastest over a XC course. It was very light, rigid and had an efficient pedalling position. That bike was down to rider fitness to get the best speed out of it.

My Norco Fluid gets 'faster' every time I ride my regular loop. That's nothing to do with the bike; the set-up hasn't changed. The difference there is me learning to use the suspension more and the brakes less.

Some bikes feel faster than others on different terrains. Very stiff, XC hardtails have that punchy feeling where every pedal rotation surges you forwards. Some full sussers feel fast because they're confidence inspiring.

All in all it's a combination of fitting the rider, transferring power efficiently, keep traction without a wallow-ey feeling and, most importantly, that magic 'feel'. If there was one, clear, fastest bike, we'd all be on it and World Cup events would see all riders on near identical bikes.

Oh, and red. Red bikes are fastest but at least 9.8%*

*proven!

As others have said, fit of the bike to the rider, geometry in reference to its intended use, suspension performance in relation to intended use, tyres with regard to intended use, rider confidence in said bike etc etc...

Some of this can be learned, if you ride your bike more you'll generally become more confident on it.

Some bikes wallow in their rear travel, their geometry makes them hard to turn etc, obviously the person riding the bike has a huge influence but with the same rider across a range of bikes ridden on the same trail there will be fast and slow bikes.

I read a blind test of a load of tyres by a motorbike mag years ago. They timed the riders and also asked them to rate the tyres according to their own perceptions - including rating them on confidence.

The fastest tyres got the lowest confidence rating from some riders - it was hypothesised that they felt less confident because they were going faster.

Not sure that helps at all, but it's interesting. (For a given value of interesting.)

What I find interesting is that even after typing all that, you still don't seem to have stumbled upon the answer to the original question.

The No1 thing that makes an mtb faster is appropriate tyre choice*

*assuming optimum tyre pressures of course

Isn't the answer 'your new bike'?

As I'm pretty sure most people I ride with have mentioned at some point (usually during or after the first ride) that it is SO much faster than their old bike!

What mtbel said.

Wider, lower pressure tyres with little to no tread (mainly to be more supple) save a significant amount of energy according to Schwalbe. As the ground gets rougher the tyre becomes more important and the differences are smaller on smooth surfaces which is really interesting. Basically the ability of a tyre to conform to a surface appears to be the fastest tyre for MTB as it significantly reduced rolling resistance in their tests.

Weight is also a factor in MTB when climbing. People mock it and limited gains can often be made on the bike (more to be saved on the rider) but it is a significant source of resistance over 4-5% gradients.

To answer the OP's main question... yes it is mainly journo BS when you read stuff online or in mags 😀

I'd imagine descending speed and confidence relies mainly upon suspension performance much in the same why Scwhalbe describe reducing rolling resistance with tyres described above. Ability to conform to the terrain without being held up by the terrain. Seeing as most reviews come from quickly hopping on a bike most likely with poorly set up suspension for the individual... yes it is journo BS 😀

A vindaloo washed down with a couple of pints of Old Scrot the night before and a three mile ride to the nearest lav can make a huge difference to one's Strava time.

Neb - Member
Didn't enduro mag test loads of bikes with loads of different riders and aggregate the times? I think the yt Capra was a clear winner with every rider posting fastest times while on it. So, with the same rider, what makes a bike faster than others??

However, i've yet to see a "Statistically Significant" test. Ie one done under sufficiently controlled conditions, with sufficient number of tests, and repeats to be able to both quantify the time difference AND the statistical confidence in those differences.

1. Rigid, steep HA, 1.9" tyres inflated to 50psi, feels fast...

2. Full sus, slack HA, high volume tyres, feels slow at the same speed as above.

No 1 is more fun. 🙂

I don't feel fast on a fully rigid bike. Things like corners and trees go past really slowly as I'm having the shit beaten out of me. I feel way the hell slower on my fully rigid because I'm going way the hell slower.

klumpy +1

I remember reading a column about a DH team tuning their suspension. They had their riders repeat the same timed course and made suspension adjustments between runs. There might have also been data acquisition instruments used on the bikes. After each run, they'd also get feedback from the rider, and the rider wasn't told what changes were made so that his feedback wasn't biased.

After x number of runs, they ashed the rider how it felt. "Horrible, I was getting bounced all over!" Well, that was your fastest run by XX amount..."

30psi in your minions...