[Closed] what about a good old fashioned helmet debate

I think its our culture of cyclists being 2nd class road users that makes them get the victim blaming thing.

HTH 😛

I predict a cut and paste athon.....

But I think I remember reading that in countries where bicycle use is more established, helmets are used less frequently than here so does anyone have any opinions on this subject?

Easy answer round out way it's the law wear one and get on with it, much quicker than having a long rambling debate really.

I hospitalised myself with concussion for a week at 11 years old. I wasn't wearing a helmet.

Would a helmet have helped? Don't know, there's no control sample, but I wear one now.

Off road it regularly fends off low branches.
On road it is fluorescent yellow with scotchlite patches and forms part of my "SMIDSY? Really?" attire.

A friend of mine was hit by a car last week (bike going straight-on, car turned left without looking). He landed on his head.

Helmet is totally trashed.
One of his vertebrae is cracked.
He was out of hospital after a couple of days.

1.Express a point of view
2.Be a dick about it.
3.Repeat ad infinitum.

1.Express a point of view
2.Be a dick about it.
3.Repeat ad infinitum.

🙂

I always wear a helmet. Absolutely no way I'd let me boy ride without one.

Risk assessment. Doing 50 down a black run I'd wear one, going to 7-11 for a pint of milk and some tabs, probably not. See not hard is it.

I predict a cut and paste athon.....

Helmets dont kill people kids do..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28948946

Think skinnyboy has it.

Risk assessment for my kids says that their age and relative lack of experience means they always wear helmets.

Risk assessment for me is that I usually land on my head, so I wear one unless popping to the shop.

While I choose when I wear a lid, I think - child + child seat + helmet - is a no brainer.

I got a memo from my ex

Lol @ memo from the ex. How very...

If I go out with my nephew I encourage him to wear a lid as he isn't as spatially aware as an adult. His assessment of risk is based on his experience of pushing his own limits. He also knows that a knock on the head is going to hurt as demonstrated at the tender age of 8 when mid light sabre fight with me I managed to flip him over and land him on his scone and put him out for a few minutes.

I don't get the rabid yes and no debates that surround this issue, even here in Oz where it's stupidly mandatory and you risk a fine for non conformance. Just wear one when the situation merits it. And don't be a dick to non wearers because of some anecdotal personal experience.

my 3yr old lad wears a helmet on his balance bike and in a bike seat not because I feel there is a great risk, but to make wearing a helmet second nature so when he does start doing stupid things on his own there is more likelihood he'll wear a helmet.

he wanted to go to bed in his bike hat the other day.

A friend of mine was hit by a car last week (bike going straight-on, car turned left without looking). He landed on his head

Yeah, but in a study wot I did, if he wasn't wearing a helmet then the blind c*** of a driver who pulled out without seeing him would have been statistically more likely to have given him an extra 3 inches of room when passing, so there...

I take Skinnyboy's approach.
When he first went in the bike seat @12 months ,L'il J wouldn't wear a helmet.For the past year I've just cycled extra carefully and on pavements alot!!
He's just turned two and is like Jambo's and wears it all the time,unfortunately I have to also.I still take him on pavements though........ 👿

Most annoying is parents who put a helmet of their kids and leave it dangling off the back of their heads with the chinstrap flapping around. Not sure they are aware that this is almost certainly worse than no helmet.
Either wear a properly adjusted helmet or none at all.

Would anyone like some cheese on toast ?

[img] [/img]

I will get a big plate of biscuits till the toast is ready.

[img] [/img]

no need for a discussion, its your kid. although why you would choose not to put a helmet on is beyond me.

I use mine all the time, my bike hit me on the head when i came off a few days ago, it hurt with the helmet on so would of really hurt with a chain ring in my skull.

Poah - I choose to not put the helmet on for the same reason that I don't put a helmet on them for walking downstairs, playing on climbing frames, going to the swimming baths or crossing the road

You have had the memo,
Thus rendering this thread both unnecessary and purposeless.

😀

I always used to wear a helmet for all but very short trips to the shops. Recently, probably after watching far too many YouTube videos of late 90's pro cycling, I've been out a couple of times in just a cap instead and must admit that I quite like it.

I will say though that if I had kids I would always ride with one as I think it is important for them to see it as the normal thing to do.

"proper" off road and any road ride I wear a lid. Going to the shops and stuff I don't bother. No risk assessment that's just the way I roll.

[quote=yunki ]Poah - I choose to not put the helmet on for the same reason that I don't put a helmet on them for walking downstairs, playing on climbing frames, going to the swimming baths or crossing the road

i bet you don't make them eat their crusts either... 😀

Would anyone like some cheese on toast ?

Ooooh Yeah! That would be perfect actually, got any Worcester sauce to go with it?

Shall I pop the kettle on?

got any Worcester sauce to go with it?

Yes,we have.
Pop the kettle on and I will meet you later on page 6 😉

rendering this thread unnecessary and pointless

not so.. This thread has already inspired me to do a few rounds of cheese on toast (with Worcestershire Sauce)

Can I just check OP? You asked specifically about helmet use in a bike seat and lots of people gave you anecdotal evidence about general helmet use, have I read the thread correctly?

When I got a bike seat advice was helmet would be uncomfy for child due to pushing their head forward and due to high back and wings of the chair they are strapped in to probably not necessary. No links to proper studies tho (if any have been done on this)

(edit just spotted jam bo did actually mention bike seats)

My kid asked me for some shin pads for football training,
I called him a poofter and if he was that bothered to stuff newspaper down his socks.
And he knows not to let me catch him wearing a seatbelt either or he will be sleeping in the coal shed with no tea .

It is very simple, ask yourself if I were to come off my bike would I prefer my child to be wearing a helmet or not .

Then run with it , if you can not do this maybe children are not for you .

My kid asked me for some shin pads for football training,
I called him a poofter and if he was that bothered to stuff newspaper down his socks.
And he knows not to let me catch him wearing a seatbelt either or he will be sleeping in the coal shed with no tea

At last some common sense and I hope you gave him a good thrashing as a warring.

You don't have any kids do you chip?

yunki - Member
Poah - I choose to not put the helmet on for the same reason that I don't put a helmet on them for walking downstairs, playing on climbing frames, going to the swimming baths or crossing the road

hey its your kids head, mine has fallen off his bike several times both on and off road and the helmet has saved him from damage. Maybe its just me but I don't want anything to happen to my kids.

I have one! When he was lickle, I got him to wear his helmet always. He's survived unscathed! Now he's older I let him choose. He normally goes without, but at the BBB where you have to wear one, he wore it without complaint.

Yunki, make your own bloody decision eh? It's your kids.

[i]*Devil's Advocate*[/i]
If they're strapped into a proper bike seat, how likely is it that they'll hit their heads? How likely is it that the extra mass of a helmet could damage their neck?
[i]*/Devil's Advocate*[/i]

I'm not asking for advice dezmond.. As has already been pointed out, their mother has already made the decision

I just like a helmet debate, it brings out the best in people 🙂

If they're strapped into a proper bike seat, how likely is it that they'll hit their heads? How likely is it that the extra mass of a helmet could damage their neck?

While I choose when I wear a lid, I think - child + child seat + helmet - is a no brainer.

People twenties years older than me I know used to spend the childhood building. IEDs that al quieda would be proud of , and then use them to blow trees out of the ground. None of them lost hands, but some kids somewhere probably did .

I grew up a feral child of the seventies, we did not wear helmets, grew up in playgrounds with witches hats and climbing frames with only concrete to brake our fall, climbed the sides of buildings and generally ran riot.
I don't know anyone who bashed there brains in, plenty of broken arms and legs.
Does not mean some kids did not, just I never new them.

The chances of your child receiving a brain injury while riding there bike is very small, but it does happen.

So if you are very unlucky enough to find yourself in that tragic situation knowing you wanted your kid to grow up like you helmet free, you will have to live with that.

Only you can decide something like that, shall I make my kid wear a helmet is a decision for a responsible parent, not for a bunch of divs (me included) on a forum to make.

Yeah.. The co-pilot limo is designed with high sides.. It would be pretty tough to find a situation where a helmet might offer further protection..

However, yunki Jr mkII has just smashed his head a bloom in corker on the bathroom sink, I will be ensuring that he wears a helmet when cleaning his teeth in future

Oh, and I have relied on the forum to make every major parenting decision for the last five years, I'm not about to start making my own decisions now!!

The responsibility would be terrifying

Jeez, next you'll be asking us how to flippin [i]shave[/i]!

roll the dice and state your number? is is worth the gamble? the problem with accidents is you never know when they are going to happen pot hole in road? sunlight glistening off oil that you think is water? hit by a third party. A bump to the head in the wrong place can be serious at any speed (especially standing up and catching it on the cupboard door!). like chip said if you did have an accident and they weren't wearing that 1 inch piece of polystyrene would you be happy? disability's can be hard to swallow and they are only young. have fun and ride safe..you never know what's coming[img] [/img]

D0NK - Member

Can I just check OP? You asked specifically about helmet use in a bike seat and lots of people gave you anecdotal evidence about general helmet use, have I read the thread correctly?

no I'd wait a few pages and then read again from the beginning

ps if you do want a specific child helmet / helmet anecdote to be going on with and a useful one to quote if you are caught sans helmet

- mrs antigee once got a bee in helmet and stopped suddenly and unsuccessfully on a greasy road and fell over but all was ok with the little 'gee on the back because she was wearing her helmet (and a high sided seat)

A bump to the head in the wrong place can be serious at any speed (especially standing up and catching it on the cupboard door!).

This is why my two kids wear a helmet at all times. They also sleep in a safety harness, because they have loft beds.

Jeez, next you'll be asking us how to flippin shave!

Risk assessment. Doing 50 down a black run I'd wear one, going to 7-11 for a pint of milk and some tabs, probably not. See not hard is it.

Apparently, it's too hard for you 🙂

What's your risk assessment based on? Any actual facts or just a hunch?

Personally, my route to my nearest shop includes roads, lots of junctions and a roundabout, with plenty of cars despite being half a mile away. It's these cars that present the risk - not my bike handling skills.

As for the high-sided seat - do the sides have padding? If not, they are still likely to cause damage when your kid's head smacks against it and the road.

Not sure why we need to debate "old fashioned" helmets, there are plenty of modern cool looking ones too now...... 😉

For me, riding bike = helmet. end of. simple that way. You never know when you might come off, for what ever reason, and hit your head. It's not like there are really any sensible negatives to wearing a helmet these days, no one looks at you and laughs anymore, and if putting on a helmet is "too much bother", you're probably doing the wrong sport anyway, and should probably just be driving your Evoque to the shops instead. (i do love a good bit of "Cross Threading" 😉

My four year old wears a helmet on her balance bike, unless she is just on grass in which case I don't mind if she wears it or not.

She doesn't wear one in the trailer because it's just not practical or comfortable to do so and it's safe enough without one.

Bike seats are a bit more tricky. I put a helmet on my one year old when she was in her rear-mounted seat, but to be honest it looked pretty uncomfortable, bobbling her head about and catching on the back of the seat. She wasn't happy so I took it off.

For a family pootle at balance bike speed along sealed bridleway I think the risk of her requiring a helmet in a crash is incredibly low. Obviously I'd be happier if she could wear it, but I'm not worried enough to stop taking her because she can't. When she gets a bit bigger she'll wear one like her sister.

It's these cars that present the risk - not my bike handling skills.

Commuting, I've only been hit by a car once and was uninjured, but I've also fallen off due to black ice and tactile paving and lost skin in both cases. So, zero injuries caused by cars but two by my bike handling 🙂

Although, I've never ever banged my head/helmet while riding a bike...

It's not like there are really any sensible negatives to wearing a helmet

Individual or societal?

A helmet did help when the irate idiot driver punched me in the head.... though a gun may have been more useful

correct, you don't have to look a dweeb these days
not that was ever an excuse. Making people wear PPE can be frustrating..the day I walked down the factory line to find a bunch of guys wearing welding glasses while operating a cnc machine was encouraging - why? they didn't know they were for "light" welding just that they looked cool compared to the usual offering. we didn't argue if it meant they actually wore them

If you ride like i do you're better off with a helmet (3 helmets written off).

If you ride like i do you're better off with a helmet (3 helmets written off).

If the OP had written off three helmets whilst riding with his kid in a child seat then I wouldn't recommend putting a helmet on the kid - I'd recommend the OP stopped taking the kids! 😆

We use it as a disciplinary motivator -

'Eat your broccoli or Daddy will take you on a bike ride'

I wear one and so do the Teens. Now when the kiddyback tandem fell off its two-legged Esge stand with Teen2 sat in the baby seat, I was glad of that little yellow Bell helmet!

Then there was the time Teen1 decided to show how much you can wiggle the handlebars after just learning to ride. He was glad of that helmet when he planted his forehead into the tarmac.

But when they were little, I mostly rode one to set an example. Now it's a habit/race requirement/for insurance cover/sunburn protection

Meanwhile, in the Netherlands...

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[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

😀

Please, I beg you, stop posting pictures of the bloody Netherlands.

I'm sure I could find a load of pictures of people not wearing seatbelts in some country or other. Would that prove that seatbelts are unneccesary?

Please, I beg you, stop posting pictures of the bloody Netherlands.

But no helmet thread is complete without a "Meanwhile in the Netherlands.." picture set. 😀

I'm sure I could find a load of pictures of people not wearing seatbelts in some country or other. Would that prove that seatbelts are unneccesary?

If that country also had much lower injury rates for car passengers then yes it would certainly be relevant at least.

Well no, because the two things could be entirely unrelated, COULDN'T THEY?

Yes of course, which would be the point.
It would illustrate that other factors are actually more important and effective at preventing injury.

Helmets (and seatbelts) do not lessen risks, they only lessen consequences.

(which is good, obviously, but lessening the risks is far better)

Anyway I don't want to drag this thread into an [i]actual[/i] helmet debate. It was just an amusing aside.

I've done a test cycling to and from work over the last few months. With and without hi-vis, pannier, helmet, etc.

I found that the hi-vis does seem to help, with less cars pulling out on me (still happens though), but makes sod all difference to anything else.

Panniers on the back, cars give you more room for sure.

Helmet...I've found cars less likely to wait, and give me less room, and cut in sooner, when I'm wearing one.

My tip - fit panniers (even if you just fill them with balloons!).

8)

Oh, as for the kids thing, dunno, don't have kids and don't care what others do with theres. Actually, might be worth borrowing one for the rack though, and seeing if I get more room than I do with panniers...

You could always stick a lifelike doll in a child seat and see what happens.

But I believe a bar-mounted puppy works even better:

[img] [/img]
http://bikeyface.com/2011/09/28/perfec-safety-gear/

It would illustrate that other factors are actually more important and effective at preventing injury.

I don't think anyone's stupid enough to think the opposite. Or at least, anyone who matters.