[Closed] Well it was worth an ask.. Price match question to LBS!

id spend the extra defo...carbon feels so good when riding it...the giant carbons are particulary good...

Yeah I'm thinking it is probably a better platform for future upgrades..

First thing to change will be wheels..

[i]First thing to change will be wheels.. [/i]

If you're going to do this soon it might be worth looking up the range a bit and buying something with better wheels to start with? Would likely be a cheaper package (even if you make some back from the standard wheels).

what they come with? the giant wheels are now made by dt i think..or at least the hubs are..your dundee arent you? try leslie bike shop hes always great for a deal and hes a good lad 😀

Nah would be well into next year I'd imagine. Meant to be saving for a house so don't want to push the boat out to much.

Yea I am Dundee mate... Are u stalking me?

It has giant branded rims and hubs. I thought they were made by Alex rims?

Can you post links? I'd rather have an alloy frame with lighter better components (particularly wheels) than a carbon frame with cheap stuff.

bike shops - I give em 5 years max

have you had a word with Dales in Glasgow ? they have a 25% sale at Christmas and are a Giant main dealer....you could probably reserve on at Sale prices....

I was in Dales about 4 weeks ago and wasn't overly impressed with selection to be honest. Maybe they were clearing out the old to make way for the new...

Links:
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/giant-tcr-1-compact-2012/

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/giant-tcr-composite-3-2012/

I'd probably get the cheaper one. Dont really know why, I think mainly because it looks nicer. And it has full 105 groupset and its cheaper. I think those Giant Alu frames are meant to be alrite aswell.

That is a tough decision.

Wheels look the same on both so I think I'd plump for the carbon one myself.

Sod the groupset, I'd get the carbon one. They're all as functional as each other, Tiagra's alright.

105 all the way, it's a big step up. Although as others said, if you want upgrades maybe spend more upfront? How much is the composite with wheels you'd be happy with?

Or have a play on the Rose bike builder section and see what you come up with? Could work out considerably cheeper than buying upgrades later on?

bike shops - I give em 5 years max

Well, if they're confident they can sell it at the price it's at now, why should they sell it for £350 less?

I'd get the Aluxx frame and full 105 groupset. The geometries are the same, but that alloy frame was top of the range but a few years ago. I bought a used TCR0 with full ultegra groupset, upgraded Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels, and all up weight is only 8 kilos.

Nice alloy beats cheap carbon.

I would have gone into the shop and spoken to them, they're less likely to take you seriously over the phone.

I have the Defy Composite and its epic. Having tried both the ali and carbon, carbon is a better ride. But as above the 105 is a big step up from the Tiagra, I have Ultegra kit and there's no difference to the 105 at all.

Good luck choosing, you probably wont be disappointed with either.

I would go for the better frame. In a year's time when the chain/cassette/rings etc start wearing out you can upgrade those to 105 for the same price you would have replaced the 105 bits on the ali bike.

I would go for the better frame

I chose alloy because I wanted to race it, wanted stiffness and crashability - the absence of weight is a bonus. The Aluxx frame is almost identical weight to the Composite according to their [url= http://www.winwithgiant.com/WinWithGiant%E2%80%93RoadFrameTestData%E2%80%93FINAL.pdf ]recent data[/url].

But as above, you won't be disappointed with either.

Stevo210 - Member
I have the Defy Composite and its epic. Having tried both the ali and carbon, carbon is a better ride. But as above the 105 is a big step up from the Tiagra, I have Ultegra kit and there's no difference to the 105 at all.

Good luck choosing, you probably wont be disappointed with either.

I have same bike (Defy Comp) and almost totally agree, apart from that the Ultegra on the Giant is noticeably slicker than the 105 on my Jake 🙂

Get the alu bike and spend the extra on a pair of Shimano RS30 wheels which either Merlin or Planet X had on sale for around £100 last week.
Not only do you end up with a great alu frame and the better groupset but also a very good wheelset.

TiRed - I tested the Defy Alloy 105 against the Composite Ultegra. they were quite different to ride, both very compliant, but the Composite one was noticeably less fatigue inducing after 20 miles or so.

Thanks for the replies dudes.. I am leaning towards the Aluxx TCR 1, I prefer the look of the bike, but I like the idea of the carbon frame and the upgrade potential for future. Having ridden aluminium framed road bikes in the past I never found them to be that harsh a ride.

MrSalmon.. They have had the bike since at least July so if it was going to sell I reckon it would have done so by now. It's up to them of course, like you say if they are confident they can sell it then fair do's.

This is taking more consideration time than the last car I bought... And the house hunting gets less thought put into it.

was noticeably less fatigue inducing after 20 miles or so.

20miles isn't a long ride! If you're fatigued after that long on a road bike there's something more wrong than the frame material.

but I like the idea of the carbon frame and the upgrade potential for future.

Nothing to stop you upgrading a good alu frame, mines 10 years old now and I'm still buying light/trick/pimpy bits for it. Cannondale maek the CAAD10, Spesh have just released an S-Works Allez, at least one of the P-X team riders uses a Team Alu for Crits, if anything alloy's experienceing a bit of a resurgence as the budget racers material of choice.

Well, if they're confident they can sell it at the price it's at now, why should they sell it for £350 less?

what the OP said, its been sat there best part of six months and is now an old model. Maybe they know from experience they can afford to have cash tied up in stock for months at a time and eventually sell it at (or close to) rrp, but somehow I doubt it.

[i]Maybe they know from experience they can afford to have cash tied up in stock for months at a time and eventually sell it at (or close to) rrp, but somehow I doubt it. [/i]

So what's your theory about why they wouldn't drop the price at all?

I would go for 105 over Tiagra for the shifters alone. The carbon frame would be a massive bonus obviously

1981miked. I was in same place as you this time last year. I eventaully got the Defy Comp, with Ultegra, in the 25% off I mentioned above, for a smidgeon above the cost of a lower specced one at rrp......

I checked the Dales website and nothing in my size... This is really taking the mick now.. I can see pro's and con's on both bikes..

I just wonder if I got the carbon one I'd wish I had gone for the 105 drivetrain, I'm not sure i would necessarily see/feel the benefits of carbon. Bearing in mind I may use it for the odd commute aswell, I originally set a budget of £550 but that quickly went up.. As usual.

I'll use it for training, commuting and hopefully a sportive and possibly a triathlon.. Depending how the shoulder op goes next year..

the Composite one was noticeably less fatigue inducing after 20 miles or so.

In the old days (3 years ago), we'd do 20 miles riding out to the start of the chaingang.

These days, 20 miles is about my limit..!

Frame material has no bearing on either of these.... 😀

I checked the Dales website and nothing in my size...

OMITN - indeed, but at my age every little bit helps 😆

Will do Iainc thanks mate..

Maybe they know from experience they can afford to have cash tied up in stock for months at a time and eventually sell it at (or close to) rrp, but somehow I doubt it.

So what's your theory about why they wouldn't drop the price at all?

Probably one of them has an eye on it, done a deal with the owner that if it doesn't sell, they can get it at cost. Bike shop doesn't lose out cash-wise but gets a happy employee. If cashflow isn't a problem, why not! Happened a few times at my old workplace.

So what's your theory about why they wouldn't drop the price at all?

Ignorance? Pigheadedness? An evangelical hatred of internet tyre kickers? Blind optimism that year-old road bikes will sell for full rrp in the depths of winter? Just because they are still [i]in[/i] business doesn't mean they are doing well or their sense is sound. I've mentioned before my experience with 23C near MK, who couldnt even be @rsed to dig out a price list when I walked in there with a £1K C2W voucher in my hand. And constrast that with Epic who spent an hour talking enthusiastically about all things road when I collected the bike I'd already bought from them over the phone the week before (with the same voucher 23C sneered at). A colleague drove >100 miles to buy his second road bike from Epic having been so happy with the service he'd had with his first, at a cost of £6K.

The OP was a potential loyal returning customer asking to be hooked, and they turned him away.

edit:

Bike shop doesn't lose out cash-wise but gets a happy employee.

only if they sold the bike to the OP at cost, not somewhere between cost and full rrp

If cashflow isn't a problem, why not!

because theyre a business and they live by having customers, not selling things at cost to employers? See comment about future return business above.

I would go for 105 over Tiagra for the shifters alone.

Well that's about the only area there's any improvement, and I don't find the Tiagra ones hugely objectionable (compared to Dura Ace on the summer bike).

And as said it'll all wear out anyway and you can replace it with Ultegra/DA if you want. Not really the case with the frame.

Probably one of them has an eye on it, done a deal with the owner that if it doesn't sell, they can get it at cost. Bike shop doesn't lose out cash-wise but gets a happy employee. If cashflow isn't a problem, why not!

Are you for real?

Biking is a hobby that often results in significant spend over a prolonged period. Keep a customer happy now and he will carry on spending money.

In the past 12 months I have helped 5 people (colleagues and friends)chose their bikes. I will happily point them towards brands and retailers that I have had good experience of, or tell them what to avoid. What you are saying is that these shops are so short sighted they think providing a bike at cost to an employee is more important than making money off customers.

I get really frustrated at businesses that think they are owed income and make no real effort to earn their business

Plus 1 here for Andy at Lesley bike shop. always doing great deals on his bikes, he's also a giant dealer so will be able to get hold of the model your after.good luck on what ever you decide on mate.

crashtestmonkey - you missed my point entirely!

OP phoned up to enquire about the bike re discount. The employee who has their eye on same bike (and has done a deal with the shop owner) answers phone. Has a vested interest not to offer any discount. If someone else had picked up the phone, the owner for example, discount may well have been offered.

The employee only gets the bike at cost [i]IF[/i] it [u]does not sell[/u].

I've used this as a way of rewarding staff before. Has two efects: said person is happy they'll possibly get a bargain. Every other staff member tries to sell that bike, just to wind him up 😆

How did the bike shop know the OP would become a regular loyal customer? Someone phones up, says they have been looking at pricing on-line annd will you match them? Where in this exchange does that give any impression that the buyer has any kind of interest other than buying from the cheapest supplier? It says to me he ONLY asked the LBS because he could pick the bike up from them and deal with them if there were issues with the bike. How do you know the LBS and the on-line company paid the same for the bike? Perhaps the LBS couldn't afford to match the price and with no hint of making a profit in the future decided against supplying the OP.

How did the bike shop know the OP would become a regular loyal customer? Someone phones up, says they have been looking at pricing on-line annd will you match them? Where in this exchange does that give any impression that the buyer has any kind of interest other than buying from the cheapest supplier? It says to me he ONLY asked the LBS because he could pick the bike up from them and deal with them if there were issues with the bike. How do you know the LBS and the on-line company paid the same for the bike? Perhaps the LBS couldn't afford to match the price and with no hint of making a profit in the future decided against supplying the OP.

Fair point. Therefore, the sensible thing to do when faced with that question over the phone would be to say matching the price may be difficult, why not pop into the shop and we can see what we can do. That then leads to a face to face conversation and opportunity to sell the merits of buying from a LBS.

Classic features and benefits exercise, basic sales innit?

All good points you make. I did get the impression that they had no intention of negotiating any further which is fair enough, he said "boss won't take anymore off as he isn't in a rush to sell it". I have dealt with them before for repairs and others bits and pieces. I also went in with my brother in law as he wanted a bike, he ended up buying a £900 road bike from them, also been in with 2 or 3 biking mates who bought shoes, clothing, helmets etc..

As long as they were not rude. No one can blame them for not wanting to cut there margin

I get really frustrated at businesses that think they are owed income and [s]make no real effort to earn their business[/s] don't slash any potential profit, just for me, and just because I've seen it cheaper at some faceless online outlet

Bike shops are not charities, FFS. They aren't owed income, they earn that income, that's why the good ones are thriving.

So what's your theory about why they wouldn't drop the price at all?

If cash flow isn't a problem then's it best to wait till you get the most for it. No need to rush everything out the door cheap unless you really have too.

Their sales history may show that this particular bike works well for them and if the OP isn't going to pay full price someone else will.

As long as they were not rude. No one can blame them for not wanting to cut there margin

Shep.. The sales history proves this kind of bike doesn't shift though as it has sat in the shop since July.

This is the first time I will have purchased a bike on a "faceless Internet outlet". I always try to use the local shops for purchases but £300+ is alot of money to overpay for the same product elsewhere.

have you bought the on that's online yet then?

Not as of yet mate..

Get it done and ride it. Snow's a coming. 😀

Oh no.. I'm not riding in anything less than 18 degrees, clear blue skies and no wind. Don't want to wear out the components..

I have a "better weather" bike 😳

However in spring it's doing a Paris-Roubaix (maybe) and a Liege-Bastogne-Liege (definitely) so it'll just be a bike after that as I predict crap weather.

Pricing, my guess is if it was in the shop in the summer they paid full trade price. Online stock is probably just a list in a giant warehouse, rather than a bike ready to go, maybe not in the hands of the online shop until you order... And this online stock is probably now at a discounted trade price. So if the real world shop price matched they could sell at a loss.

You are not really asking for £350off, you are asking for 115% of the profit..... Working to lose money.. For example.( I made up the numbers.)

Online stock is probably just a list in a giant warehouse, rather than a bike ready to go, maybe not in the hands of the online shop until you order...

If the B&M retailer paid for the bike when they received it (or soon after), so there is cash tied up in it, and the online retailer isn't paying the distributor for it until the customer places the order, then the B&M business model for this kind of bike is pretty much broken, isn't it?

I think online-only retailers will have the same issue as the B&M ones in that they will have to hold SOME stock. However I know when I bought my Mondraker, they had the box shipped from the importer to them and then back down to me as they probably didn't want to hold stock of every type and size and spec of Mondraker.

A lot of end of year bargains are probably the importer shifting stock so there's always a problem with people who paid for their stock ahead of time choosing to sell at a loss or zero profit to compete or holding on in the hope someone will buy anyway.

I visited my LBS with a shifter problem recently. Now my LBS (which is also an on-line retailer) has just call up and quoted me £219 for a pair of Tiagra shifters. Now I know for a fact that they sell them on-line for £189 and that I can buy them from other UK-based on-line sellers at ~£140. You can get them for less than that on e-bay if you're willing to take a chance on a supplier in Tai Wan or wherever. When I pointed this out to my LBS they just said they 'couldn't do anything for me'! Seems like they don't want the business and mostly get away with huge mark-ups.

get away with huge mark-ups

That old classic huh

well isn't it true?

Has a vested interest not to offer any discount. If someone else had picked up the phone, the owner for example, discount may well have been offered.

consider point well and truly missed, I thought you meant a deliberate decision by shop owner.

How did the bike shop know the OP would become a regular loyal customer?

They didn't, but if they don't treat someone who calls up and is therefore obviously local as a [i]potential[/i] (highlighted as you appear to have missed it last time) future loyal customer, they are missing an opportunity. "come in, lets see what we can do" would have got OP in the door, maybe knocked a few % off or throw in some kit (bigger markup-less real loss to the shop) and possibly started a long and fruitful relationship with a local rider. The OP is after an "entry level" road bike which screams future upgrades and sales. See comment in my earlier post about Epic getting £6K return business from someone prepared to drive >100 miles.

I don't expect LBSs to be fawning doormats but the indifference that the OP was met with isn't going to help businesses struggling with internet competition.

Where in the original post does the OP mention to the shop he is local when he is enquiring about the price? It is only after he is given the price he says [i]"Oh well I said, I was trying to support my local bike shop, i was going to come in and pay for it today, but I'll take my money else where.."[/i] and (for all we know) simply puts the phone down. The LBS should have tried harder, agreed. But the OP probably could have worked the situation slightly differently too and got a different outcome.

To the OP - if the shop couldn't have matched the price, what could they have done to secure the sale?

[quote=thebikechain ]

get away with huge mark-ups

Interestingly my LBS also refuse to price-match in shop compared to online but only on certain items. Frames, wheels, forks, drivetrain they match. Gloves etc you have to order online. That said they charge postage so I guess for low price items they factor the postage into their margin on the items.

Of course, they are going online only but in quite possibly the oddest way ever. You order online and then they will either post or you can collect from their shop. Which is closed. So you can collect it every second Thursday around noon. 😯

I did mention I was local and therefore able to come in and pay for it that day. They could have at least made an effort to persuade me to come in.. I worked in sales for 6 years so know how to get a customer through the door.

Something like "well that's is a good price as you say, I doubt we can match it, but why don't you come in later today and I'll speak to the manager in the meantime and see what we can do. I'm sure we can sort something out, do you need pedals, shoes, helmet, cycle computer.. Clothing etc?"

I would have said "yeah I'm after some pedals, shoes, cycle computer and some new winter gloves"

"Well then 1981miked, I'm confident we can sort you out a great deal, I'll see you this afternoon"

Something like that would have got me in the door at least, but all I got was "well the boss won't take anything more off it as he is confident it will sell at that price"

And have you bought the bike yet?

And have you bought the bike yet?

he does not need to rush now! he might of parted with his cash if the lbs was a little more persuasive but not.....

so now the way i see it he can wait to order his bike until after christmas and might be able to find it even cheaper.

as he said he wont be riding it in the winter anyway (or most of the summer if its only for sunny days)

No not yet.. Busy trying to buy a house today. Far easier than a bike IMO.

Sunny and wind free and clear skies and it must be at least 18 degrees.. ; )

Nah seriously.. I may hold off until next week and see what happens nearer the big day.

Plus been in touch with Leslie bikes as recommended by a few on here and he has offered me a good deal on a bike, hoping to go through this weekend for a look.

Now my LBS (which is also an on-line retailer) has just call up and quoted me £219 for a pair of Tiagra shifters. Now I know for a fact that they sell them on-line for £189

I always stick up for shops trying to make as much money as they can, they are not a charity and are there to make money after all. BUT it really pisses me off when you can buy the product cheaper from the shops website especially when its all stored in the same place.

atlaz - Member
thebikechain »
get away with huge mark-ups

That old classic huh

Interestingly my LBS also refuse to price-match in shop compared to online but only on certain items. Frames, wheels, forks, drivetrain they match. Gloves etc you have to order online. That said they charge postage so I guess for low price items they factor the postage into their margin on the items.

Of course, they are going online only but in quite possibly the oddest way ever. You order online and then they will either post or you can collect from their shop. Which is closed. So you can collect it every second Thursday around noon.

Its not that I think we should always expect shops to match on-line prices (they do have real overheads - staff, buildings etc), but I do expect them to at least offer the customer something of an incentive to buy from them where they are obviously far from being competitive.

No not yet.. Busy trying to buy a house today. Far easier than a bike IMO.

If you think a LBS is out to get you, wait till you meet the Estate Agents!

Only thing to do with estate agents is ignore them. They have a clear vested interest and I found that if you just remember all they want is money, life gets less stressful. If they give you the opportunity, negotiate directly with the owners rather than going via the agents at all times. We went around for a drink and spent 2 hours discussing the price and how we could make it work for everyone. Very reasonable experience, everyone got a fair deal and the estate agent had nothing to do with it.

I would go for the better frame

Define "better": Weight? Stiffness? Crashproofness? Smoothness?