[Closed] Weight saving on wheels compared to other parts on the bike

very.

That’s a huge amount of weight off a wheelset- it must have a properly heavy set at the moment!

Current wheels are about 2.4kg for the set. New ones would be about 1.55kg.

Yes, I'll think you'll notice!

Quite a lot.

True story. Wheels is where it really counts.

I probably halved weight of my commuter wheels and all the sudden I'm not that sure I need 11/34 cassette and 50/34 cranks xD

Cheers!
I.

You won't go any faster but it will ride better.

massive amount, I can tell a few 100g on my wheels, I do a lot of climbing for my fitness level
2.4kg wheels are downhill wheels, im guessing you are talking with tyres however, i try to shop for 1.8kg wheels only, 30mm inner+ for 27.5's for my all round riding on my MTB's and 80ish kg riding weight

2.4kg! With tyres, surely?

Maybe think about going to 650b if it's not already.

Wow, what are the wheels, is that weight without tyres??

Agree with Cynic_Al, my gravel bike is 10kg but with quite nice wheels (1650g so not featherweight, but a nice build with light rims and Sapim alloy nipples). Tyres are not lightweights for gravel tyres but I think are the right balance of weight and toughness (Vittoria Terrenos, approx 500g per tyre). I use Latex tubes because I'm a sealant-o-phobe so not going tubeless. Each tube 100g.

Either way, it feels really responsive to wee digs and sprints and is also really good out of the saddle e.g. when my pedalling is all choppy and I'm constantly re-accelerating the wheel. It basically does exactly what I want from a gravel bike which is to feel as much like my road bike as possible but with tyres fat enough for loose rough surfaces.

You won’t go any faster but it will ride better.

If there's any climbing involved he will.

That weight is WITHOUT tyres! Tyres aren't too bad at 500g each with wire beads.

hand carved from granite?

Sounds like the Roccia wheels that were ~£60 on PX.

It will feel like a different bike with some Hunt Aero Light Disc wheels, Supersonic tubes, 23mm GP5000 front and 25mm GP5000 on the rear. 😉

Supersonic tubes, 23mm GP5000 front and 25mm GP5000 on the rear.

But why? That is just purely wrong to have narrower rubber on front...

Cheers!
I.

Not sure gp5000 tyres are right for a gravel bike 🤔

I thought wider at the rear for grip?

That weight is WITHOUT tyres! Tyres aren’t too bad at 500g each with wire beads.

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Get a set of 1500g wheels on there with folding tyres and it'll feel like a completely new bike!!

650b wheels at 1500g
WTB Byways at 530g each, you're not much over just the old wheel weight!

My gravel bike is 9.6kg with pedals.

Wider at she front for the aero gains. But not really necessary. I wouldn’t be running a 23 on the front of that type of bike. I run that combination on my Aeroad, but for a comfort bike I’d run 30 or 32 front and back.

Weight saving off the rims is definitely changes the feel of the bike more than weight saving elsewhere, but it won't increase speed significantly more than saving weight elsewhere.

If that 1.2kg is mostly at the rims and tyres, I'd expect the difference in feel to be massive!

If there’s any climbing involved he will

Well yes, but it's well established that the difference due to weight reduction is minimal because aero remains a factor - more significant up to 12% inclines IIRC?.

I was surprised that narrower front tyres was becoming a trend (I'd read about it elsewhere).

Is this people trying to take aero savings to the extreme? Is it just an MTB thing to want more grip on front tyre? Narrower at front just seems wrong to me as well.

I've a Pickenflick. Stock wheels were around 2.1kg. Upgraded to Hunts after a year (around 1.6kg) and tubeless, made a very noticeable difference in how the bike rode and felt.

There are other places where you can make easy/not insignificant gains. Stock seatpost was a right chunky affair, found a lighter one in the parts box (still Alu) and also cut off about 8cm in the length, and saved around another 300-400g.

I was surprised that narrower front tyres was becoming a trend

It does take half the weight of the rear so I can see an argument, I wouldn't bother myself.

I suppose the downward slope it creates to the bike will decrease frontal area 😄

worth remembering too that cheap heavy wheels often have hubs with really slow engagement. A quicker engaging hub makes a bike feel quicker as well

My Longitude weighs a kilo or more less than my old stock Vagabond (Alex Volare/Deore) and these aren’t even particularly light rims (Hope Enduro)

Carbon bars/seatposts help too, but wheels/tyres would be my first look. Don’t forget to factor in the cassette. The XTR cassette weighs 200g less than the old Deore one.

Not a massive game-changer but hey, 200gms is about the same as

- An adult hamster
- A cup of sugar
- 56 pennies.

All of which could (but shouldn’t) be carried in your shorts without improving performance,

found a lighter one in the parts box (still Alu) and also cut off about 8cm in the length, and saved around another 300-400g.

You sure? 😉 I've just been swapping seatposts, even my cheap-but-chopped aluminium post only weighed 240g, replacement nice-but-not-chopped aluminium post weighed 275g.

As it happens, I did actually save 300g but only because I replaced a Thudbuster suspension post 🙂

Best weight saving I've found recently for the money was getting some posh shoes, I can save 400g of rotating weight with a £175 pair of shoes.

Seems crazy money for shoes I'll only wear in the summer on the road bike, and I'll probably not get them in the end, but 400g is a decent saving for that sort of money.

Do you feel the difference 13FM?

Normally the first thing I do with a bike is to fit light wheels.

When I'm on my nice light 27.5 bike I really miss the flywheel effect of my fat bike wheels. It gives you a pedal stroke for free when you get puffed out and take a breath going up a hill.

Do you feel the difference 13FM?

Shoes or seatpost?

Haven't ridden bike without the Thudbuster yet, main reason for taking off was to help diagnose sore knees, they seem to coincide with more miles on the gravel bike with the Thudbuster. 90km in Arrochar on Sunday should be interesting.

Haven't bought the shoes yet, that's a luxury purchase if still employed next summer!

Weight saving off the rims is definitely changes the feel of the bike more than weight saving elsewhere, but it won’t increase speed significantly more than saving weight elsewhere.

Yep. Makes little difference to overall speed but then saving 1kg from an overall weight of say 85kg with rider and bike that is only just over 1% so not really surprising.
However, it will definitely feel nicer with lighter rims and tyres and will make more difference to the feel of the bike than saving weight on seatpost, bars etc,. but don't expect to be noticeably faster.

I'm not if it actually translates into being faster but I do find that having light wheels does make a bike (road or MTB) feel much nicer and more responsive to ride.

My tube/tyre combo was said in jest, it would make it a road bike and not a gravel bike! 😆

However, light tubes and light tyres for the width you desire may well make good cost:weight loss savings.

I’m not if it actually translates into being faster but I do find that having light wheels does make a bike (road or MTB) feel much nicer and more responsive to ride.

This is my argument for lightweight in general, although I would love to spend time on a good aero bike to see if aero FEELS faster. I'm not interested if a bike merely IS faster as I'll still be slow in the scheme of things 😉

This is my argument for lightweight in general, although I would love to spend time on a good aero bike to see if aero FEELS faster.

For my road bike (which normally has a set of light Dura-Ace wheels on) I occasionally borrow the deep rim aero wheels from my TT bike. I've yet to be convinced if those are noticeably faster in practice but they make a nice noise at speed so sound faster! The're a bit heavier than my normal wheels though, so don't feel as lively when accelerating etc.

Lighter wheels are just better all round, unless you're smashing DH tracks.

quicker to accelerate
more agile handling
quicker to brake
better suspension performance

found a lighter one in the parts box (still Alu) and also cut off about 8cm in the length, and saved around another 300-400g.

You sure? 😉 I’ve just been swapping seatposts, even my cheap-but-chopped aluminium post only weighed 240g, replacement nice-but-not-chopped aluminium post weighed 275g.

As it happens, I did actually save 300g but only because I replaced a Thudbuster suspension post 🙂

Ah, maybe not ... Kitchen scales and a hazy memory, so might have over-egged it slightly. Think I also fitted a lighter saddle too (used Charge Spoon); the overall reduction from better, shorter post and saddle was surprisingly significant though.

weight of say 85kg with rider and bike

I think if you look at Chub Club, there are many of us at 85kg without the bike!

I think if you look at Chub Club, there are many of us at 85kg without the bike!

Sorry, thought I was on a cycling forum. 85kg with bike was my attempt at including the larger boned!

My old Soul was on a pretty heavy build (Pikes, heavy wheels and tyres and not a particularly light drivetrain) until recently when it lost 5lbs, with a good chunk (maybe even most) of that being in the wheels and tyres. As well as being quite a bit lighter it also not only feels faster but results on Strava suggest it is actually a good bit faster in practice (I've even had a couple of KOM's on it). How much of that is me riding it faster 'cause it feels better, and how much is due to the weight loss, is debateable though.

How much of that is me riding it faster ’cause it feels better, and how much is due to the weight loss, is debateable though.

The weight drop may make a few seconds difference so if you were previously 3 seconds off a KOM that may do it for you but more likely because you are just trying harder...

Yep saving weight on wheels can make a big difference (especially in this case!), as can lighter cassettes (even though they are consumable).

Sometimes if wheels don't feel lively, it can be as simple as tensioning up the spokes a bit more.

But lighter rims/tyres always a good idea.

Sometimes if wheels don’t feel lively, it can be as simple as tensioning up the spokes a bit more.

If you've let things get so bad that your spokes are that slack, best overhaul every bike you have for your safety!

I purchased a new set of wheels yesterday, Bontrager Aeolus 37 Pro, also put some new tyres on (Bontrager R4 Classic 28mm).
Old wheels (tyres, tubes, rotors and Cassette) are 1980g rear and 1420 front. New wheels with tyres, tubes, rotors and cassette are 1686 rear and 1250 front. Total saving of approx 500 grams.
I did my usual short loop yesterday, 27 miles with 1200 feet of ascent. 12.7 mph wind, 209 watts average (with power meter) and 19.7mph average speed.
On the old wheels/setup, exactly same loop, 8mph wind, 196 watts and average speed of 19.5mph. Both wheels are approx 40mm deep (vision Merton 40s and the Bontrager are 37mm).
My conclusion was very little difference speed wise. They felt nice though and look good.
Here’s a link to the pics showing the details:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Lgg24VuHecP47X9s8

Exactly. In contrast I have just switched back to some 25c Marathon Plus at 600g for each tyre and I was flying around this morning and felt faster than I have for the last few weeks.
How I feel on a particular day is gong to make way more difference than if my bike is 500g lighter

Timely GCN video posted today here

To save you the 20 minutes it makes absolutely no difference saving weight on wheels over anything else. The extra effort to get the wheel spinning is then stored as kinetic energy in the wheel (flywheel effect). Only losses are if braking a lot and even on a criterium race where 2% of the race was breaking it was calculated as a 0.7 second save over an hour.
An on a hill climb the few seconds slower time is just because of the extra weight and not where the extra weight is.

And while I will admit to lighter wheels feeling nicer I am probably not noticing the loss of a bit of flywheel effect when going up on undulating roads.

The difference in losing weight in the wheels vs the whole bike is the bike feels more zingy when accelerating and is more lively when going over obstacles as mass removed is from the front and rear.
Also you can do the change in one go without having to fiddle with lots of bits and pieces.
Crits I've done most recently have a short course with a U turn, suspect less wheel weight would help save energy for the acceleration from 20-50km/h

Crits I’ve done most recently have a short course with a U turn, suspect less wheel weight would help save energy for the acceleration from 20-50km/h

The extra energy from the acceleration is not wasted so makes no difference. The only time the energy is wasted is when braking for the u-turn not accelerating out of it.

Good point about lighter unsprung weight on an MTB but we are talking a presumably unsprung gravel bike here...

I'm not convinced about that gcn vid. Guy talks alot about the science, but This fella actually tested it on the bike rather than on a computer, and the results are as most people would expect.

Lighter wheels accelerate faster and so will feel great.

(they also hold less momentum and can be decelerated more quickly which is why the overall "speed" will be the same)

Sounds like a great improvement. Sometimes upgrading for lighter components can be very incremental to the point that after changing 5 things you may as well have bought a better bike. This sounds like a weak leak that's been identified and sorted.

Tpbiker, I’m not sure that link is the best to be honest. I don’t think you can class water in the tyres as an extra weight for wheel mass. Too much moving/sloshing around, the tyre is very likely to perform differently With water rather than air.
It’s a good indication of how little difference there is, even using water, we don’t know how much weight the rider lost riding up the alpe 4 times in a day, we don’t know whether the weather conditions remained constant. For example, was there a slight tail wind on one of the runs? As the results are so close I’d say that the difference is marginal.

I’m not convinced about that gcn vid. Guy talks alot about the science, but This fella actually tested it on the bike rather than on a computer

I will believe a person who has actually done the proper modelling and has the right background rather than a person who fills his tyres with water. The guy on the GCN video is not alone by the way, it is well recognised the the whole weight on the wheels things is an old wives tale.

I have one bike with really light wheels and tyres and my fatty with really heavy wheels and tyres. Its very noticeable the difference in the momentum between them in that the heavy wheeled bike holds speed better but is slower to accelerate. so in terms of energy usage over a undulating ride the net difference is negligible if there at all.. However if you are accelerating then braking the heavy wheeled bike will take more energy overall to maintain the same average speed

All that information makes sense actually as the main time I notice the wheels is when accelerating from slow speed or getting going from a stop/gates etc.

So lighter wheels result in (very slightly) quicker acceleration, easier to slow down and a livelier feeling bike generally, but they also lose momentum quicker so require more energy to keep going - Does that basically sum it up?

In which case, rides with lots of stop-starts it's better to have lighter wheels, long rolling rides it's better to have heavier rides.

For example, was there a slight tail wind on one of the runs?

Wasn't it up Alpe D'Huez? Quite zigzaggy IIRC 😉

Does that basically sum it up?

The effects are absolutely tiny - mostly psychological.

The result in overall speed is tiny but the effect is very noticeable. My bike feels immediately nicer to ride if I drop 200 grams from each tyre but I don't feel the difference in flywheel effect in the same way even though I know it is there.
As I hardly ever have to stop (I don't even need to have brakes on the bike) then I just use heavier and nigh on puncture proof tyres safe in the knowledge they are no slower.

In a straight line, on a smooth road, at a constant speed, without drag and friction, you wouldn't feel much/any difference (other than initial acceleration) from a light wheel rim over a heavy one, but in the real world, on a broken surface, with changes in direction (even small ones) a heavier wheel will require more energy to maintain momentum than a light one. Gyroscopic forces, changes in angular momentum, energy lost to impact all require replacement. Yes a heavier wheel has more KE, but Work is Delta KE, that delta is what all of the above are robbing you of and all of them are greater in a wheel with a heavier rim. The differences might be marginal, but they are there.

Finally got the 'good bike' out on the road yesterday.

It's testament to the fact that lighter bikes (1.5kg) feel soooooo much better, all else being equal. Maybe some of that is due to stiffer wheels (and I'm not even sure they are stiffer, just assuming they are) but otherwise it could only really be down to the weight. But yeah, no real difference in times or average speed compared to my usual trundle with my wet weather commuter, mudguards n' all.

I'll get a chance to compare more at the weekend, I'm still running approx 1.2kg of cheap commuting tyres and butyl tubes but will switch to my GP4000s and latex tubes, should save 400 or 500g alone!