[Closed] Ways for smartphones to fail

I dropped mine off a chairlift.

Not sure that’s what you mean though ?

Drowned, in pocket of jacket on wet day.
Drowned, bottom of river.*
Drowned, dry bag leaked on river.
Drowned, fell out of unzipped jacket pocket driving RIB on loch.
Cold, kills battery when near or below freezing, if less than 75% charge (iPhone)
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* a Nokia 3310 survived this, even completing the call I was mid way through.

My iPhone is a bit tricky to unlock with gloves on. Nose swipe FTW.

FWIW I disagree with your opening premise - I'd never go into the mountains relying just on a phone for mapping. Seems a bit daft to me given how easy it is to carry a bit of paper and a compass. From a risk POV the likelihood of a problem is far from negligible, the potential consequences quite serious - would never get past a risk assessment if doing it for work. Being aware that they fail doesn't help hugely when they do - your opening anecdote provides pretty much all of the required evidence - what if you hadn't been able to get down without a map (from what I can see, you could just as well argue that you don't even need to carry any form of map at all in the mountains)?

Though quite clearly the article title is also inaccurate - a smartphone failing in the mountains is far from unexpected.

Smashed* my S6 camera** on old man of store.

*She dropped it.

** The ONLY bit that wasn't protected.

Cold. My phone has been crapping out loads this week while boarding.

Water's done for a couple of mine over the years. I ended up buying a waterproof one.

Just yesterday a pal drowned his iPhone in the bath(!?) Needless to say, I was very supportive.

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Like Nixie though, mine dies out in the hills when it's good few below zero. I only use it as a camera on the hills though, so it's an annoyance rather than dangerous.

My wife lost a phone near Penmachno when it fell out of a pocket while horse riding. We didn't bother looking for it, it could have been anywhere.

The day after I got a really spooky four minute voicemail from it, with lots of shuffling noises. Have animals in Wales learned to use phones? Weird.

To the extent that it matters I'd agree with aracer. Wouldn't dream of exclusively relying on a smartphone or GPS based device in the hills or anywhere wet/lumpy.

I might go further and say anything that encourages people to go paperless, compass free and without some old school map reading and navigating skills into proper mountains is irresponsible. Sadly I fear that smartphones are doing just this.

I've used purpose made waterproof GPS (and occasionally electronic charts) when racing keelboats in the past as a primary navigational tool but it was always backed up by proper charts and a proper compass.

On a sort of related note I saw a headline the other day about the effects of magnets in clothing on hand held compasses. Actually it might have been on here.😀

Personally I'd say main failings of smartphone use...

Random battery burn (you know that moment where Facebook or Google Play store decides it's going to keep your phone awake for two hours for no ascertainable reason).

Water isn't good for them and a lot of screens are crap when damp.

The cold thing mentioned above.

Dropped and smashed screen

FWIW I disagree with your opening premise – I’d never go into the mountains relying just on a phone for mapping.

Me three.

I use a waterproof dedicated GPS unit with enough battery plus a backup and a smartphone on top of that in case one fails. I wouldn't go into the backcountry solo without two forms of navigation. That they would both fail is possible but unlikely and a risk I'm willing to take.

I've used Garmins for years and they've never let me down despite falling off motorcycles on motorways or ending up in streams (did lose one though). I've had three smartphones fail due to rain or impact damage.

I should probably buy a SPOT tracker given I do my adventuring solo. I definitely wouldn't rely on just a smartphone!

I'm torn.
I'm wondering what I had options of back in 1993 for nav and a phone on the hill.
I'm realistic that a smart device can help with a lot of navigation.
It seems our culture is slowly moving away from the self reliance that was drilled into me when I first took to the hills and rivers.

Edit: to go back to the opening statement. It's not about how many ways you can loose the ability for you to call for help. It's about how likely it is that you need to and how likely it is for you to loose the use of that phone.
Even calling got help = ma hours wait in dark and cold. Even using it to know where you are to within a few metres is worthless unless you can actually walk/crawl off the hill.

Before I had GPS, I used to just go into the hills and get lost. For most people there's no real navigation risk in your riding, we're never that far from civilisation and there's no doors slamming shut behind you, it's just useful to be able to navigate to stop you turning back when you're 9/10ths there.

Mine doesn't strava properly, it breaks most rides after about an hour, not sure why. Not that stressed tbh

[b]matt_outandabout[/b] wrote:

I’m wondering what I had options of back in 1993 for nav and a phone on the hill.
I’m realistic that a smart device can help with a lot of navigation.

A paper OS map (a bulky complete map - I don't think I'd even got into the habit of removing the covers in '93 - rather than an A4 sheet or two printed from digital mapping I tend to carry nowadays) a compass, a whistle, a torch - I certainly didn't have a mobile phone at all then, I think they were still big bulky things you wouldn't dream of carrying up a mountain. A route plan left with somebody who'd call mountain rescue if they didn't hear from you (I think it was '93 I forgot to check back in having turned back and the police turned up at the YHA I was staying in to check on me - having just made use of the torch to descend Tryfan North ridge 😳 ).

Yes a smart device can [b]help[/b] with navigation - I carry one with mapping on, but it mostly stays in the pack and just comes out for taking pics.

Agree with aracer.

Paper FTW if you want dependability.  GPS is on the ‘nice to have’ pile but far from necessary and can’t be relied on if it all goes Tango Uniform.  If I was picking an electronic device to have in the hills and could only have one, it would be a dumb phone with as long a battery life as possible.

Part of the problem I think is preparation and attitude. If you’re going somewhere you could get in trouble with less than four in the party so stabilising a casualty and leaving someone with them while sending two for help isn’t possible, then a phone becomes a lot more useful.  A sizeable chunk of the mtb community has decided bags suck which makes carrying basic stuff like maps, hat, spare socks and gloves, first aid etc basically impossible never mind more serious stuff like bivvy or jackets...

* obviously not suggesting groups of four plus only, just pointing out the that communication is more important than GPS so far as electronics goes and that becomes more so in the smaller groups/frequent solos we tend to do

What aracer said and I am ruminating on is interesting.

The focus on 'what smart device' and 'can I get away with' and 'it is much safer (when it is working' is a very different attitude and focus from 'I let others know my plan', 'I can look after myself, even when it goes wrong' and 'Being lost is only temporary with my judgement and skills'.

Smart devices can help, but it concerns me that (like so much kit) it removes the focus of riders/walkers/paddlers from the core attitudes and skills that keep you safe.

The OP doesn't Mention relying on your phone just asks how they fail?

Like do many issues is not a simple phones good or phones bad message is it.

Some one mentioned risk assessment above. That is the key. Not written just a clear think through of the issues. What might go wrong how might how we deal witht this.

When we Walked as a family I was often suprised how little some families carried. In winter in particular we'd have a group shelter and spare cloths.

I navigate by phone alot. It has massively improved my navigation. In high country I'd have a map as well. Trail of bread crumbs on my watch is handy but teaches me nothing. I've been walking with my dad in the lakes for 50 years. He hasn't had the map out in a walk for years. He just knows where he is.

I suppose my Point is that on Facebook there seems to be a ranty element against anyone who us rescued ever or doesn't have every item on some idealised list. To me it's not that simple. The outdoors is open for all, look after yourself

Good little bit from the BMC on phones

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/Mobile-phones-in-the-mountains-a-blessing-or-a-curse

The curse of the modern smart phone is the wet screen......

cold, Ive had cold kill a phone before.

and sweat.

Being aware that they fail doesn’t help hugely when they do – your opening anecdote provides pretty much all of the required evidence – what if you hadn’t been able to get down without a map (from what I can see, you could just as well argue that you don’t even need to carry any form of map at all in the mountains)?

Funnily enough I would argue exactly that - you *can* go into mountains with no map at all, under the right circumstances. If I hadn't been able to get down without a map, I wouldn't have gone up with only a fragile software map 🙂

Whoever said it's more important to focus on attitudes/skills than devices - I think that sums it up.

[b]ampthill[/b] wrote:

The OP doesn’t Mention relying on your phone just asks how they fail?

Did you read his blog post - the one he gives a link to at the end of his post?

"although smartphones are not a substitute for navigation skills, they can in the right circumstances substitute a physical map and compass"

When we Walked as a family I was often suprised how little some families carried. In winter in particular we’d have a group shelter and spare cloths.

I'm not sure what your point here is? Of course lots of people go into the hills insufficiently prepared and with insufficient kit. The vast majority of those actually get back down just fine, because they've not had anything go wrong. If and when things do go wrong such people get into trouble.

I’ve been walking with my dad in the lakes for 50 years. He hasn’t had the map out in a walk for years. He just knows where he is.

Sure - there are plenty of places and routes I could go without looking at the map [b]provided nothing goes wrong[/b]. Sometimes I do it as an exercise. It doesn't mean I don't carry one though - and it's also a completely different thing to relying on a phone for nav when you do need something to help you navigate.

I suppose my Point is that on Facebook there seems to be a ranty element against anyone who us rescued ever or doesn’t have every item on some idealised list.

Well that's a somewhat different point. But it's also the case that there are people going into the hills who aren't sufficiently prepared and then need rescuing, and from seeing MRT reports it appears to be a problem which is getting more common. Getting into trouble because of relying on a smartphone for nav is only one part of that, but clearly from the Cairngorm MRT comments it's something which happens. More generally whilst there's a lot of stupidity on this, particularly if stuff gets reported in the MSM, sometimes it is a genuine issue - again looking at MRT reports the majority of the time they go out of their way not to criticise people who get into trouble and need rescuing, but sometimes they clearly feel that people have been irresponsible.

I note that nobody in the BMC article is advocating using a smartphone as your only nav device, simply that one can be useful for other purposes.

[b]sideshow[/b] wrote:

Funnily enough I would argue exactly that – you *can* go into mountains with no map at all, under the right circumstances. If I hadn’t been able to get down without a map, I wouldn’t have gone up with only a fragile software map

As I suggested, that's a different argument - but you appear to be contradicting your own assertion that a phone can "substitute a physical map and compass” there. If the only circumstance in which it can do that is when you don't need a map and compass at all is it really substituting?

aracer

Nope didn't realise that there was a link I the first post

It would seem unwise to suggest to some one that a phone replaces a map

Attitudes and skills FTW.

Ten years ago I lived on an old farm on the North Yorks.  Total mobile blackspot.  One sunny afternoon I had a large group of young Scouts knock on my door, completely lost with an emergency plan that amounted to ‘phone Skip on mobile’...

This isn’t a new problem.