Waxing my chain - what am I doing wrong?

Rusty chain are a feature of chain waxing, not a glitch. The wax is probably still in the chain bits that matter, so it's probably all good, if you don't want rusty bits, I think some folks run a lube around the chain.

Yes, rust on the outside always happens after wet rides unless you dry your bike well but it's not a problem because the inside is well protected.

You can spray wd40 on a rag and run the chain through it after the ride if you like.

Plutoline seems to leave a coating on everything so it's a bit more messy but it doesn't rust.

The quality of chain is also a factor - I find that X01/XX1 chains are less susceptible than X1, presumably due to a higher chromium content. Obviously more expensive initially, but they do seem to last significantly longer too.

The more expensive chains don't rust as quickly (which sounds obvious when typed out), but a rusty surface on a chain is normal for chains that are dipped in a wax solution. I wax my chain but use Squirt and leave the chain on the bike - it gets a clean in a chain cleaner once every 6-8 months (I'm tight and run my drivetrain into the ground, so I tend to swap things every 2.5-3 years!), rinsed off and quickly dried with some kitchen roll. I then apply the Squirt lube so the chain is coated. This takes me about 5 minutes in total, so isn't that much of a chore but isn't needed more than that.

I do however wash my down every 2-3 weeks and once it has been hosed, the bike is bounce 'dried' - so all the drips that are on the bike are off. I then run some Squirt over the chain and that is it...no surface rust and chain remains good to go between washes. I reckon I could get another couple of weeks between applications but as I'm hosing down I do a lube as a matter of course.

I just slather a rag in a light dry lube (currently using up some Juice Lubes Viking Juice) and run the chain through it after any wet ride. It cleans off some of the surface dirt (I'm still on Putoline so the outside of the chain is typically a bit black and sticky) and prevents rusty bits forming. The whole drivetrain usually feels all the better for it afterwards too.

I just slather a rag in a light dry lube (currently using up some Juice Lubes Viking Juice) and run the chain through it after any wet ride.

That will stop the Absolute Black style waxes from re-adhering when you next bath the chain.

I'm using wax for the first time this winter on my winter road bike with a 105 chain. Surface rust is a bit of a problem after a wet ride. I just dry the chain with a towel (whilst on the bike) and that seems to keep it at bay.

What sort of mileage are people re-waxing at - I am doing mine every 220 km (two rides) and it seems fine for the first 100 ish km, but by the end of the 2nd ride it definitely sounds 'dry' and looks a bit sorry for itself.

I don't understand the interest in wax lubes, they seem to cause a lot of angst and many folk comment that they don't seem to work very well over extended distances.
Or you could just use a good wet lube, quick wipe down after each ride and re-apply a few drops as it's a lot simpler and helps the chain last longer as well as staying rust free..? A simple tip is to use a second hand kitchen dish sponge, the green nylon side, to wipe post-rinse water and black muck off the chain before re-applying wet lube.
Quick, simple and reliable; no stress on long rides too as a well treated chain will easily do over 200 continuous mixed terrain miles on a single lube.

That will stop the Absolute Black style waxes from re-adhering when you next bath the chain.

Well, assuming the extremely thin coating of dry lube has actually survived the next wet ride (which I doubt) and also doesn't just absorb into the hot wax in the slow cooker.

But also, I don't really care if the wax adheres to the outside of the chain, I don't think anyone pretends that wax stays on the outside surfaces of the chain do they?

I don’t understand the interest in wax lubes, they seem to cause a lot of angst and many folk comment that they don’t seem to work very well over extended distances.

They perform better, chain lasts longer and drivetrain typically stays cleaner.

The angst is typically people just getting used to doing it, it does take a little bit of experimentation to get right. I've tried going back to drip lubes a couple of times for various reasons and am always disappointed. I even resurrected an horrifically worn CX drivetrain by re-waxing it with Putoline, it's like the wax filled in some of the worn rollers on the chain or something, before it had been hooking up on the chainring but after waxing it was totally smooth again.

I went all in on putoline but just found I couldn't get it to work on super wet mtb rides. Even wiping down with rag and oil after rides it would just rust every time.

Now I go for putoline in summer where it can last a month and means I never have to clean my bike as there is no grime. In this application it really is very good

In winter I just go for a wet lube as it's less effort

3000 mainly road miles this summer I retreated my chain once.

I wonder if those that find it does not last are using too high a temperature and the wax drains out of the rollers

I have used putoline only for more than a decade. Its cheap and it works so well I will never use anything else

I don’t understand the interest in wax lubes, they seem to cause a lot of angst and many folk comment that they don’t seem to work very well over extended distances.

They perform better, chain lasts longer and drivetrain typically stays cleaner.

That's the theory.

I'm trying it for a winter season to see how well it works in practice.

Definitely cleaner by a country mile - washed my filthy bike after yesterday's ride and chain looked brand new after just a light rinse with the hosepipe. I've not had to clean the chainset or cassette and they just look brand new - no muck at all between the sprockets etc.

Can't comment on wear rate till I measure it come the spring....

Definitely noisier than an oiled chain when running and often sounds like it's running dry.

drivetrain typically stays cleaner

I thought that was one of the selling points... but wiping the outside with something sticky nullifies that rather.

I wonder if those that find it does not last are using too high a temperature and the wax drains out of the rollers

The instructions with the wax I'm using say soak the chain at 110C, then cool it off, stirring every 5C drop until it gets to 80C and then remove and hang to dry.

I wonder if those that find it does not last are using too high a temperature and the wax drains out of the rollers

What temperature would you recommend?

but wiping the outside with something sticky nullifies that rather.

Yes, it would, but wiping down with a thin/light dry lube pretty much just leaves a protective layer to stop it rusting until the next ride. I used GT85 to equally good effect, nobody would call that funky or sticky 😎

The AB wax is no good for general use ime - it's not durable enough. I use it on the TT bike and it doesn't last very well.

I'm going to switch to something else next season - and that's for a race bike where performance outweighs ease of use. For general riding around I don't think the AB wax is viable.

Plutoline seems to leave a coating on everything so it’s a bit more messy but it doesn’t rust.

Not my experience at all. Rusts like a mouldy old ship anchor after a proper mtb muddy, wet, sloppy ride. You can't just hose your bike down and leave it by any means.

I imagine it's excellent for road riding. For mtb in winter slop, I've just not found it as hassle-free as the evangelists would have you believe.

I wouldn't want to come between middle-aged men and their lubricants, but I wonder if some wax enthusiasts are more into the process than the results?

I’m going to switch to something else next season

I just bought some random chain wax off Amazon: Enigma Ultimate Chain Wax - Black Edition

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09X5SQW2H/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It's only for my winter road bike so I don't really care about saving Watts.

but I wonder if some wax enthusiasts are more into the process

There's very much the need for a collection of "doings" if you start waxing your chain, and some folks love all that shizzle fo'shure.

No there isn't.

Open tin. Put on hob. Turn hob on. Put chain in tin.

Reverse steps and refit chain

I wouldn’t want to come between middle-aged men and their lubricants, but I wonder if some wax enthusiasts are more into the process than the results?

Pointing out issues with waxing is like telling a christian God doesn't exist. If I've got to wipe with oil after riding I might as well oil at the same time and save myself the faff of waxing. That's the point I stopped believing and sold the waxing kit I bought.

TJ I'm glad it works for you but from other threads you haven't been riding much? Multiple bikes and riders frequently out and in minging conditions and waxing was just more work. The benefits of wax in these conditions is overstated, and if they do get covered in mud they are harder to clean. I do carry an emergency 10ml of lube in case oil washes off but I think I've only needed to apply once in the last 5 years.

If I’ve got to wipe with oil after riding I might as well oil at the same time and save myself the faff of waxing.

I was thinking the same reading this thread.

And I'm one of the least fussy people I know about how my bikes look, but even I don't want a rusty chain.

I don’t understand the interest in wax lubes, they seem to cause a lot of angst and many folk comment that they don’t seem to work very well over extended distances.
Or you could just use a good wet lube, quick wipe down after each ride and re-apply a few drops as it’s a lot simpler and helps the chain last longer as well as staying rust free..?

If you use wet lube in poor conditions it's not lasting one ride. It's lasting about 10 minutes into the first really crappy section. You might ride 100km on a single application, but you're only lubed for part of that. The rest of the time your chain is full of wet grinding paste. Just because you apply at the start of a ride doesn't mean anything useful is left at the end.

In really bad muddy conditions, a chain waxed with Putoline might only last three rides, but it's well lubed for all of those three rides. You hear it becoming noisy because there's no water in it, because water doesn't hang around inside a waxed chain.

I know this because if I ride through a muddy puddle with a waxed chain there is no subsequent grinding noise. Everything stays quiet. If you are mechanically sensitive, this is really obvious.

I use wax for three reasons:

1. During summer it lasts, well, all summer, even if I clean my bike. It's a no brainer.

2. During winter, it keeps my chain well lubed throughout several wet rides rather than just the first half hour of the first one.

3. It's overall LESS faff for better results.

If I’ve got to wipe with oil after riding I might as well oil at the same time and save myself the faff of waxing.

You could but you'd be riding without lube for much of the time. Have you ever stopped to check the condition of your chain mid-ride? I have.

Not for me fooman. Its so nice not to have to use messy oil. Only ridden 3509 plus miles in the last year.

Even in really minging conditions it still works.

If I lube my chain 'properly' I find it way more faff than waxing.

By properly, I mean either removing the chain to clean it in a bottle of white spirits or using a chain cleaning tool and then reapplying the lube. If I don't do that and just add more lube when it starts to sound crunchy then I end up with a significant build up of gunk on the jockey wheels, chain rings, and cassette which, while it's satisfying to remove, probably isn't doing much for the life of my drivetrain. Not to mention the fact you are not actually removing the crunchy stuff by just adding more lube.

With waxing I take the chain off, loop it onto a specially bent spoke, put it in the slow cooker, switch it on at the minimum temperature, and then take it out after an hour and a half. Then I put it back on the bike.

It's the part where I don't have to clean the chain I like. That and the fact it lasts much much longer than lube.

I tried the AB stuff. Utter waste of money. Followed the instructions with a brand new chain and with a gravel commute in the rain it was so damn noisy I had to start all over again. Second time was no better. Then I got lanolin lube instead and my whole drivetrains are lasting really well without a need to go near a bloody hob or even remove a chain, plus they don’t get noisy even after torrential rain and mud, because you need solvent to get the lanolin off. Neither do I get much crud build up.

Even in really minging conditions it still works.

TJ. with all due respect you only ride on the road.

My bikes regularly look like this after a ride.
I tried the much praised Putoline and it's just not worth the faff/no better.

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I dont only rude on the road tho not much real mtbing thesecdays and ime after a ride like thar it was still good for many miles.

You are one of the few that didnt like it. Couple of others as well. I have used nothing else for the last 15 years

My bikes regularly look like this after a ride.
I tried the much praised Putoline and it’s just not worth the faff/no better.

Be interested to know how you clean your chain before lubing (assuming you do).

My method is to remove the chain, put it in a bottle of white spirits, shake it around, take it out, rinse it with water, dry it with a compressor, put it back on the bike, re-lube. Ok, that's a lie. Sometimes I do that but most of the time I just wipe it down and put more lube on.

But, I'm well aware that I'm shortening the life of my drivetrain doing that. Adding more lube to an already full of cack drivetrain isn't removing the cack.

Waxing, on the other hand, means wiping the chain down, taking it off, putting it in the slow cooker, taking it out, and then putting it back on the bike.

For me it's less faff and it lasts longer.

But, I’m well aware that I’m shortening the life of my drivetrain doing that.

I pretty much hose down my bike and wipe the chain with a micro fibre and put more lube on. I change drivetrains all in one go and I last did mine a year ago after 3 years and about just under 6k mileage, and the chain hadn't got to the .75 mark (mix of XO1 and GX 12 speed). My bikes often look like @singlespeedstu after a ride.

My drivetrain is clean, it lasts well enough, my gears don't grind, i don't have to **** about with a DFF or even take the chain off my bike...Remind me why I should try wax?

Remind me why I should try wax?

Nobody's forcing you to.

We all ride different equipment* in different conditions. If some people are finding they are chewing up drivetrains or having to be too precious with their cleaning and lubing then they might want to try wax.

If not then crack on.

*I generally don't spend £500 on a cassette and chain. If I did I'd ****ing well expect it to last.

You are one of the [s]few[/s] many that didnt like it.

Most just can't be arsed to enter an argueathon on here.😉

As for cleaning the chain it gets a scrub with hot soapy water then a blast with a pressure washer.
I don't use oil on it though so is doesn't get into a sticky mess.

I tried the Putoline on it for around 12 months and as i was having to also lube it inbetween waxes I gradually just stopped using the Putoline and it made no difference apart from less faff.
Just use Smoove on it now. As long as it's not done just before a ride it lasts fine.

TBF I've generally found that 12sp SRAM stuff is remarkably long lasting, regardless of what happens to it. Much more betterer than even 10sp Shimano which was my benchmark for ages.

I tried the Putoline on it for around 12 months and as i was having to also lube it inbetween waxes I gradually just stopped using the Putoline and it made no difference apart from less faff.

Yeah, if I was having to lube between waxes I probably wouldn't bother either. It also sounds like the more expensive your gear the less benefit you get since it lasts regardless.

I, however, will always be a 'sort by discount first' consumer so I think I'll keep waxing 🙂

TBF I’ve generally found that 12sp SRAM stuff is remarkably long lasting, regardless of what happens to it.

The 12sp Force chain is one of the longest lasting chains ZFC has tested.

Just use Smoove on it now. As long as it’s not done just before a ride it lasts fine.

That's what I've been using the last year or so, big improvement on oily chain lubes.

Not to mention the fact you are not actually removing the crunchy stuff by just adding more lube.

That is the biggest difference I've noticed so far with wax, there is no crunchy stuff in there - you can fiddle with the chain and it's totally crunch free.

I wonder if those that find it does not last are using too high a temperature and the wax drains out of the rollers

What temperature would you recommend

I emailed Putoline a while back with that question and they said no higher than 90deg C (any higher and some of the lubricant components evaporate making it less effective). Obv DFF temps are not that precise so as long as it’s not smoking then it should be OK 🤷‍♂️. I now set my DFF to 100 which gives the Putoline a consistency of single cream. Works extremely well and definitely prolongs the life of the chain as I’ve done  experiments with and without to satisfy my own curiosity.

Top tip - don’t put MucOff cleaner anywhere near it and it stays rust free. I use  Autoglym car shampoo on the drive train and it never shows any rust.

XO1 chain doesent rust

Everything you need to know about waxing is easily available at zerofrictioncycling.
He tested the AB wax and it failed terribly BTW. Their drip is good but the wax seems to have issues.

Long story short - his method is very well researched.

1: clean brand new chain in 3 baths of white spirit (5 baths for sram) shake for 5 mins each bath.
Dry off (hot air gun)
2: clean white spirit residue off with meths 3 baths about 200 ml each
Dry off.
3: use Silca wax or Moltenspeedlube
They are the best. Slow cooker. Lid off its not to get too hot. Say 70c
With chain on a swisher, swish it fit a few minutes. Hang to set.
Loosen it over a vice handle or similar.

Don’t wax the quick link or it’s hard to fit.
If the chain gets wet take it off rinse in boiling water and dry and re wax. Wash in an open container. A closed one might spray you when opened. Dangerous.
Better to rinse like this or the wax gets full of crap.

There’s only one lube to top up with the Solca Super Secret drip. Because it’s all wax and thus the boiling water rinse gets it off
If you use regular lube (maybe even invlidibgvwaxes like Squirt) you’ll have to solvent clean again.

All wet lubes carry contamination into the links. To get around this you’d need to periodically (often) solvent clean the chain. 5 x 250 ml solvent every couple of weeks isn’t very eco.

Sadly Putoline’s pretty mucky too & I’m told it contains oil so a boiling water rinse isn’t going to be enough to clean out the contamination. Sadly. Solvent cleans again. Not ideal.

Inaspin.co.uk will sell you pre-cleaned or even pre-waxed YBN chains.

I draw the line at the cleaning process, I have no other use for those chemicals and don't really want to have to deal with the inevitable disposal, seems less wasteful to get someone else to do it! 😎

My bikes regularly look like this after a ride.

Mine too, and I use Putoline precisely because it's the only thing that works in that situation.

That is the biggest difference I’ve noticed so far with wax, there is no crunchy stuff in there – you can fiddle with the chain and it’s totally crunch free.

Exactly because of this. It's obvious to me that with wet lube and a muddy chain, you may as well not have any lube at all because it's always full of grit. With Putoline, there's no grit. This, for me, is enough, because I care about wearing metal away. Others may not, I appreciate this.

Sadly Putoline’s pretty mucky too & I’m told it contains oil so a boiling water rinse isn’t going to be enough to clean out the contamination. Sadly. Solvent cleans again. Not ideal.

You don't need to clean a Putoline chain. You can just hose it off with the rest of your bike and it's grit-free. Just make sure the water has dried before re-frying it.

I think it's brill, I want to share the love though so opportunity for a lucky buyer right here!

https://singletrackmag.com/classifieds/advert/putoline-chain-wax-and-dff/

Edit - stupid adblocker sumfink

Never found wax to last any longer. If anything it lasted less time

More faff between uses and often sounded like an old gate mid ride.

Making sure your chain is totally clear of any factory grease and oil is essential to good wax performance. I discussed this at length with a professor that I’m working with, he gave me a big explanation but basically any oily residue breaks surface tension and the wax won’t adhere properly to the chain. You only need to do this if your chain is new, or you use a drip on top up. I’m working on a wax compatible drip on but it’s a challenge

Which is suprising because last time I had the audacity to moan about wax on here I was told I was cleaning my chain tooo well .... - I have a chemical wash tank and an ultrasonic cleaner - used for injectors in a previous life.

My chain ain't dirty. The wax just doesn't last... Even less so when wet.

Quite by accident I found out bio chainsaw oil to be one of the few things that seems to last a long muddy ride. We buy it in 5l tubs so plenty of it kicking about so when I ran out of alternitives I gave it a chance and it turned out to be a good experiment so I keep an olde world oil can of it by the door in the garage now.

And if I hose it off immediately at the end and reapply I find I don't have to go to town with the cleaning regime.

I won’t disagree with you, the test on ZFC found the same issue with the AB wax, it is too soft and doesn’t remain in place. It also has a lower melting point so I’d imagine it would be easy to overheat in a slow cooker. That’s why I advise to leave your cooker on low with the lid off, you won’t overheat your wax that way. Overheating causes it to be less effective, it looses adhesion.

A harder wax lasts much longer on your chain or rather in your chain, you’ll still get a bit of surface rust if it’s left away wet. If I can get my drip on wax sorted, simply drip a small amount on and rub it over the surface of the chain or just remove your chain and give it a wax bath while you wash your bike and yourself.

I have found it very interesting that there are a not insignificant number of folk for whom waxing chains did not work. I have not been able to sus out what the difference is that gives such a different experience

Trailrat. Did you try the solid wax? I know both singlesoeedstu and scienceofficer did and it didnt work for them.

The only theory i have is getting the chain too hot means the wax does not stay in it and acidic soils can strip the wax out.

Yep solid wax

Tried at various temperatures.

I don't even use it on. My road bike now. Lucky to get 50km out of it before it becomes noisy as shit. The chains still well waxed and looks well lubed but you can hear it grinding away.(near new 11speed ultegra set up )

My well worn Kona commuter 8speed seems much more tolerant and I can cover about 250km before I need a top up.

My theory is that if you have a well knackered drive train more wax gets in about.

Weird. I use it on brand new chains

Dunno

TJ there is a lot of variables, chain prep, chains not left in wax long enough to get hot, poor performing waxes.

I’ve had some customers, quite a few actually, go way beyond the 250-300 miles on the road I recommend. I had one customer say his only lasted 30 miles, both can’t be true but I sent the latter a prepped chain and new wax, it seems to be a lot better for him now. Either his chain wasn’t fully stripped or his wax had been overheated/contaminated.

On a mountain bike it does need applied more often but it’s so easy to do and the chain, cassette etc stays spotless with minimal effort.

Interesting re the oils, I may try degreasing with alcohol next time. Although I may be waiting a while for the next time 🙂

I did well over a thousand miles mostly dry but 4 very wet days and only a hundred or so off road miles and it didnt need redoing. I regularly get 1000 plus miles.

Hub gear bikes tho. Maybe that makes a difference

Trail rat I do think it’s more the brand of wax you are using, your experience echos the detailed review Zero Friction Cycling published

I originally thought I’d develop an off-road/wet weather wax with a softer base wax, much like AB, it just didn’t work well at all. Wax just squeezed out too easily. I likened it to squeezing blutack between my fingers as opposed to a strip of nylon.

TJ, hub gear does make a difference, it would favour an oil or an oily wax like putoline. Harder waxes work better with the slack portion of the chain at the bottom and the actuation through the mech. It’s not well understood as to why, I’m hoping I can find out because I’ve been given time with a mad professor and an electron microscope, it’s interesting seeing what’s going on inside a chain in that detail.

On my ebike deraillleir commuter i got 1000 miles plus even in winter

@Daz could you drop me a link to your wax please? PM if you prefer. Someone had posted it in another thread, but I can't find it now. Keen to give it a try, and since I've got a new drivetrain which hasn't been Putoline'd yet, and our old slow cooker is obselete since we bought a multifunction air fryer, now seems like a good time. Cheers.

Glf wax

Must be tired. Anyone else read that as GILF?

Can't decide if Marketing Fail or Marketing Win.

That’s a whole other lubrication challenge onzadog!!!

https://www.youtube.com/@zerofrictioncycling992/videos

I came up with it, and can’t decide if it’s a marketing fail or a win 😂 but you’ll remember it

Full name story, I worked with an older man who was keen on rallying. He had a couple of lovely mk2 escorts on the road. He was always very polite and strait laced, never heard him swear or anything. The sunstrip sticker on his cars always said GLF motorsport and he would never say what it stood for. Unfortunately early in the Covid thing he caught it and died of complications. I named it in his memory, it always stuck in my head so I thought why not go with it.

I'll admit to being a bit of a Putoline Evangelist, but I have to acknowledge it's not perfect or zero effort. like tubeless tyres it's an activity you spend an extra bit of time on in the garage of an evening, for benefits/risk mitigation out on the road/trails later (IMO)...

Open tin. Put on hob. Turn hob on. Put chain in tin.

Reverse steps and refit chain

It's certainly not quite that straight forward. I've done it that way before and ended up with a lot of surplus gunk all over the drivetrain (still lasts well though and rust stays away for longer) but over time I've begun to do a bit of extra work each time just to clear as much excess putoline from the outside of the chain and between the plates before refitting a freshly waxed chain.

A bit of a film with a few globs here and there on the chain is somewhat inevitable and transfer to jockeys/cassette/chainrings will happen and have to be wiped away after the first few rides, along with running an oily rag over the chain to minimise surface rust it's certainly no hardship but I have started considering building myself a little rig just to do that pre-fitting excess removal task which is probably going a bit far.

So I'm also tempted to give Daz' product a Whirl if its less sticky than Putoline and just requires a "bedding in" ten minute spin with less chain clean up after application while still giving a couple of hundred miles of use between waxings.

I wouldn't call myself a Putoline evangelist specifically, but I do think waxing is vastly more appropriate as an engineering solution. Happy to be sold some better wax but it might have to wait til my current tin is done which will be a while.

Golf Lima Foxtrot.

It's been bothering me all morning what GLF reminded me of. I just suddenly remembered where I heard it and it was a late 90s episode of Dispatches where they were looking at the Police high speed pursuit drivers and how they were more or less only interested in Golf Lima Foxtrot (Go Like ****) and weren't really too worried about whether it was safe or not.

Anyway, I'll definitely remember what your wax is called now, Daz.

Btw, "chain waxing" appears on urban dictionary
Personal discretion if you guys want to pursue that information!

Certainly is in the urban dictionary, personally I think it’s just floccinaucinihilipilification though!!

That’s a whole other lubrication challenge onzadog!!!

Just needs some fancy patches!

I usually run new chains with the manufacturing grease until they're noisy then into a 120C fryer filled with Putoline for 25 minutes. They'll go 500 wet miles on road, about 300 off-road.

I was using Outline, but gone back to Finish Line green lube. The reason, I have a 16mth old daughter and don't have the time to get the DFF out and treat the chain any more. I was using it on both road bikes and my hardtail. I did get annoyed with the wax that accumulated on the jockey wheels.

I have a 16mth old daughter and don’t have the time to get the DFF out and treat the chain any more

And more pertinently, they go through a phase between approx 2-4 when they are irresistibly drawn to your bubbling pot of molten wax, I could only do mine when our wee boy was safely under lock and key 😬

Switched to Putoline a couple of years ago, and it's great.
110c for 20 mins or so while I have a brew. Hoik it out, wipe down and hang up on a hook to cool.

Yes it's a bit messy, but I have some old towels and rubber work gloves for it.

I put mine in one of those little fryers with a basket, lives in the garage.

In the summer I probably only need to wax every 6-8 rides (400km?)

In the winter it depends on the weather, just rain it lasts for ages, but if it's really muddy (and we're on gritty, sandy soil here) it'll need doing every 3 rides.

Still far, far better than any normal lube I've ever used.....Muc Off wet lube, ****ing hateful stuff!