[Closed] Warranty issue with DEVINCI/FREEBORN

Not really Freeborn's problem if you bought it in Spain though

Sorry, I am spanish and I bought it to Freeborn

Why did you use a shim ?

Hold up, if you bought the bike in Spain what does this have to do with Freeborn?

I also think they are fair to refuse warranty, they don't list every single thing you shouldn't do to the bike.

I disagree with your wording of the thread, but how exactly do they know that you used a shim?

Got to agree with Matthewh though, it's not Freeborn's problem if you bought it elsewhere.

I used a shim because my GD was 27'2mm and because the owners manual do not avoid that.

Did you mean you are from Spain but bought the bike from Freeborn?

Did the owners manual say "do not ride into a wall"? Exagerated example but, as I said above, they don't list everything that will invalidate your warranty

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/seatpost-shims-and-warranties

They know that I used a shim because first they said that it was because I did not insert the seatpost 3". So I sent them photos proving that it was not true.

Normal Man: correct

you basically bodged a bit of your bike to make it fit. It sucks but you're stuffed

Most (if not all) manufacturers will not warranty when a seatpost shim is used even if it may not be explicitly obviously written (same thing everyone said to you a day or two ago in your only other thread you have contributed to on STW).

Again, if you are still upset or feel this is not made clear then the original shop (even if Freeborn) are the ones to be asking the questions to. Don't drag Freeborn in to an inflammatory titled thread one day into trying to get a decent explanation/ decent resolution to your problem 😉

Personally, if I buy a new bike which had a seattube spec of 31.6mm then I'll buy a 31.6mm seatpost rather than try and shim up a small diam post.

You're on dodgy ground here and your provocative thread title does you no favours.

Only made sure that you will not use a shim in a Devinci despite the owners manuel do not say anything about that 😉

If I have read a post like this I would not buy a Devinci or may be I woud buy another GD

TBF, folk have been using 27.2 Gravity Droppers in larger sized tubes for years and I'm not aware of a whole lot of problems doing so.

Many frame tubes come with a built-in shim too.

I'm sorry to hear this has happened to you, but I have to say I wouldn't personally use a seatpost shim as I'd be concerned about tolerances etc. I'm afraid I can understand why they wouldn't warranty it, but also don't see what it has to do with Freeborn.

mokl, you are right, the problem is basically with Devinci

but i can not edit the title, sorry

why would a shim cause damage ? (assuming long enough to allow contact down to minimum insertion point)

Devinci's owner manual do not say anything about shims, like Scott for example, and other brands permit the use of it.

Is this a Dixon? [img] [/img]

If so I'm afraid that I agree with them refusing a warranty. The extended seat tube mast design means that you really need much more post in the frame than the length of a shim - I'd say at least 1cm below the bottom of the top tube.

Now, any decent mechanic would know that and I'm sure they'll tell you that the frame needed to be built up by a qualified mechanic which I'm guessing you aren't.

Given that, I suggest you play nicely, don't act as you have so far and they may well provide you with a reduced price replacement front triangle. Breaking a frame is crap but sometimes it's not someone else's fault.

The warranty does not apply if:

*The damages were caused by a fortuitous event;
*The bicycle was purchased from a retailer other than those authorized
by devinci;
*The bicycle was not entirely assembled by an authorized devinci
retailer;
*The bicycle was repaired by a person other than an authorized devinci
retailer;
*You are not the original owner of the bicycle;
*The instructions contained in the user’s manual for all frames and the
technical manual for frames with double suspension were not respected;
*The periodic inspection recommended in the user’s manual for all
frames and in the technical manual for the frames with double
suspension was not carried out;
* Parts not supplied by devinci with the bicycle or not indicated in
the user’s manual for all frames or the technical manual for the
frames with double suspension were used;
*The bicycle was used for an activity other than those for which it was
conceived;
*The bicycle and/or its components were subject to abusive use,
negligence, abnormal and/or excessive use or was implicated in an
accident;
[b]*The frame is too small for you;[/b]
[b]*You used an other seat than the one sold with your bike;[/b]
*The frame and/or its components were modified (ex: polishing,
structural or mechanical modification or addition, stripping, sanding,
strain hardening, shot peening);
*You continued to use your bicycle while it was damaged.

They stipulate that the frame being too small or using the wrong seat voids the warranty.

What would the wrong seat be all about? 😕

I can see the one about the frame being too small and maybe not leaving enough post in the frame. They're website however doesn't give any indication of how much post to leave in the frame.

I've always gone for at least 2 inches below the bottom weld on the seat tube / top tube junction.

What would the wrong seat be all about?

Wrong diameter I expect.

Hi Clubber

Before they know that I used a shim, they said that it was because I did not insert 3" the seatpost. The lenght of the shim is 4" and the seatpost even more.

Maybe I am not a decent mechanic, but they are not too

clubber - Member
What would the wrong seat be all about?
Wrong diameter I expect.

That's what I wondered, so 'seat' could be a poor interpretation of seatpost.

Hi amplebrew

When I was buying the bike I asked about my correct size frame. Freeborn told me M knowing my numbers.

About the seat... how can avoid to use an other seat than the one sold with your bike if I only bought the frame?????

Yesterday's thread you started on the subject was worded better, saying cheated by x in capitals on the front page is a bit harsh, might have been worth checking the warranty with regards to shimming the frame first.
I run a 30.9 to 31.6 shim which on one are fine with as long as its 100mm, but i think running 27.2 to 31.6 sounds like too much IMO. Not that I know anything about it, but I can see having 2mm each side of the post causing excess play and stress unless it extended well down below the top tube join and bottom of seatpost.

Obviously we can't comment on what they have actually said unless you have emails but are you sure there's not something lost in translation? For example of they said that it was only inserted 3 inches rather than 3 inches was the minimum.

clubber, the diameter was correct and I told them that I can prove that because I bought it to chainreaction or wiggje, i cannot remember

@mcgowan

why slag Freeborn bikes off on an open forum when they did not sell the bike to you?

take it up with the original retailer you bought the bike from in Spain.

First port of call always resides with the original retailer, not the distributor of the brand of a new country you were not in, when you purchased the bike

this does not just apply to smaller brands like Devinci, even the big brands like Specialized have removed "Global warranty" because distributors for each country build a "cost" of an expected warranty claims into their margins

-did your original retailer in Spain supply the shimmed seatpost?

-or is this something you fitted yourself?

-did you use fibre grip (carbon paste) whilst fitting the seatpost?

-did you use a torque wrench (5nm) on the seatclamp when fitting the seatpost?

I ran my Dixon with a 31.6mm Reverb with zero issues, sold the bike 2 years ago and new owner is still enjoying the ride with zero issues!

[img] [/img]

something to understand about using a shimmed "dropper post" is that they introduce a stress/strain load to the seat tube that the frame was never designed for

it was designed for native 31.6mm and that is what you should have used, rather than cheaping out and bodging the fitment using a plastic shim to fit a smaller seat post into a larger seat tube

clubber:

"The issue you are having in most cases is due to less than 3" of seatpost being in the frame"

esher shore, read every posts please 😉

mcgowan - Member
Hi amplebrew

When I was buying the bike I asked about my correct size frame. Freeborn told me M knowing my numbers.

About the seat... how can avoid to use an other seat than the one sold with your bike if I only bought the frame?????

All the ready built ones on their [url= http://www.devinci.com/bikes/scategory_83 ]website[/url] come with 31.6 posts.

Here's the pic of the damage

[img] [/img]

So it does look like it's cracked at a point where the shim was.

From freeborn's view I can see that the problem is that they don't know how far the post was inserted in the shim, whether the shim is stiff enough to support the frame, not to mention above that unless you bought it from them I don't see why they would warranty it unless they have a European arrangement.

amplebrew: thats not true, you can buy a reverb in a "reduced" Price if you want

There is a lot of confusion on this thread.

As I understand it the OP is in Spain, however he purchased the frame online from freeborn - hence the confusing line "I bought a De Vinci Dixon from Spain"

@mcgowan

I have read every post and am still confused about what you expect from Freeborn?

your first comment [b]"Last year I bought a Devinci Dixon from Spain."[/b]

what does this have to do with Freeborn / Haven Distribution in the UK?

you claim your bought a Dixon from Spain (from the Spanish distributor?)

the bike industry is not Apple, we do not have "global warranty"? Surely, make your claim against the Spanish retailer / distributor rather than dragging Freeborn into this mess, especially in public on a forum?

mcgowan - Member
amplebrew: thats not true, you can buy a reverb in a "reduced" Price if you want

Sorry, I've got a bit lost on that one.

The Dixons on their site seem to use 31.6 Reverbs.

"The issue you are having in most cases is due to
less than 3" of seatpost being in the frame"

As I said this may be a translation issue. They said only that usually 3" or less is the issue, NOT that 3" is the minimum required.

clubber:

1) I sent photos of me on the bike where they can see the gravity dropper, I can send many more photos

2) I told them that I can show the invoice and photos of the gravity dropper to know the lenght of it

3) Same with the shim

Just out of interest, what is the measurement from the top of the seat tube to the bottom weld of the support junction?

esher shore : english is not my native language, sorry, i will explain you better

- I am spanish
- I bought the frame to Freeborn using internet

Ok well that clears up the freeborn question 🙂

Can you post pics of the bike?

Either way I can certainly understand their issue with this happening with a shim, particularly if they know that this happens when the seat tube isn't properly supported.

@mcgowan

thanks for the clarification. your english is much better than my Spanish:)

(my mechanic is from Alicante, we have communication issues the past 5 months!)

if Freeborn sold you the seatpost and shim, they should honour the warranty, unless you have bought a frame a little small and raised the seatpost above the bottom of the frame cluster, causing the seat tube stub to crack.

Devinci are well known for standing behind their warranty.

McGowan, your doing fine mate. I couldn't, for instance, write on a Spanish site in Spanish.

Loads of people on here use shims right? Does it void your warranty?

Just out of interest, what is the measurement from the top of the seat tube to the bottom weld of the support junction?

sorry, i have been measuring it: 9'5 cms

1) You used a shim
2) Using a shim (especially that thick on 27.2-31.6!!!) generally voids warranties plus the Devinci manual quoted here is reasonably clear on this
3) You have a cracked frame
4) There is no warranty claim

Why prolong this thread? Especially, why try to drag Freeborn down?

Freeborn have a great reputation for trying to do as much for the customer as possible so rather than moan here talk nicely to them. I would expect that the best outcome might be a reduced price front triangle which would still be a decent outcome given the very thick shim you have been using.

Loads of people on here use shims right? Does it void your warranty?

Generally speaking I would expect it to without even looking at the company blurb- It would be much more of a surprise if it was warrantied

So pretty marginal then. I think that you may have to accept that this is just an unfortunate situation and chalk it up to experience though I would hope that freeborn offer you a good deal on a front triangle.

if Freeborn sold you the seatpost and shim, they should honour the warranty, unless you have bought a frame a little small and raised the seatpost above the bottom of the frame cluster, causing the seat tube stub to crack

no, i bought the shim in chainreaction or wiggle but freeborn told me that the size was OK for my height

Devinci are well known for standing behind their warranty.

i thought that 😕

pinkbike fórum:

hey

my seat post is too small for my seat tube....can i use a pop can as a shim?....will it void the warranty should something happen?

IRONHORSE:

Thanks for the e-mail. Using a soda can for a seatpost shim will certainly void the warranty on the frame.[b] A local bike shop will be able to provide you with a bicycle specific shim or the correct size seatpost[/b]. If you have any other questions let me know.
Regards,

http://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=46850&pagenum=4

mcgowan - Member
Just out of interest, what is the measurement from the top of the seat tube to the bottom weld of the support junction?
sorry, i have been measuring it: 9'5 cms

If you've had a 4" /10.16cm shim in the frame, that's not a lot of support below the weld if it measures 9.5cms from the top of the seat tube.

Their website states that they do an accident exchange programme at a 'low price,' however much that is.

Might be worth keeping friendly with them and going down that route.

That is Iron Horse, not Devinci. Also a much thinner shim.

Kona's reply is much more as most would expect

I would purchase the correct size seat post for your frame. If you damage the frame w/under sized post & trying to shim it- It will void any warranty on the frame

Shims work fine in some frames...

What I don't get, and I know it's not very helpful to the OP, a new seatpost can be had for about £20-30. Why risk shimming a £xxx frame, when the right solution is so relatively cheap?

That is Iron Horse, not Devinci. Also a much thinner shim.

Kona's reply is much more as most would expect

that's the key, some brands put it clearly in their owner's manual (Scott, Kona...) and other's not (Devinci)

Put it clearly in the owner's manual or assume it

What I don't get, and I know it's not very helpful to the OP, a new seatpost can be had for about £20-30. Why risk shimming a £xxx frame, when the right solution is so relatively cheap?

hi Jamie

because my seatpost was a gravity dropper and it costs a "little" more tan 20 pounds 😉

Of course, If I would read anything about in the owner's manual... but no, there is not anything about it

They actually do though but I'll admit that the translation doesn't seem great.

You can't write a list of all the things excluded under warranty. As I said above, a qualified mechanic should have spotted that and they do stipulate that.

because my seatpost was a gravity dropper and it costs a "little" more tan 20 pounds

Ahh. I see. Thought it was a regular seat post. Apologies.

If I buy a bike and fit my own headset does that void the warranty?

and I know it's not very helpful to the OP, a new seatpost can be had for about £20-30

not if its a dropper post it can't. Plenty of people on here seem to buy 30.9 Reverbs on the grounds they are "future-proofed" as they can be shimmed up to 31.6.

Going down to 27.2 is a hefty step though. I've worked to the "2 inches below the weld" rule for 20 years, dont know where it came from but it seems reasonable to take the stress from the weld, and personally I would never use a shim (if need be I'd sell the uppydowny post and buy a new one).

I would generally expect a traditional frame ie with seat stays, to be fine with a shim. A frame such as this that is only welded at the front to have issues with a shim. Most shims are nylon or some kind of plastic which will stretch and compress as load is placed on it. Much more than the correct sizes seat post would do in the same situation.
I really think that you should be talking to freeborn/haven about this not moaning on a forum. Attempting to damage their business because you don't agree with their assessment of what has caused your frame to fail is pretty poor form.

They actually do though but I'll admit that the translation doesn't seem great.

I don't know, but not in my manual

You can't write a list of all the things excluded under warranty

ummm...other brands write about shims and I think that the shims are very usual in our hobby, and knowing that the seatpost like GD or Reverb costs moe tan 200 pounds...

If I buy a bike and fit my own headset does that void the warranty?

Yes, but you would be smart enough to say a qualified mechanic installed it 😉

I really think that you should be talking to freeborn/haven about this not moaning on a forum. Attempting to damage their business because you don't agree with their assessment of what has caused your frame to fail is pretty poor form.

Just do this and talk nicely to Freeborn again- It is the only hope you have of getting the frame sorted although I would say they are not obliged to do much for you

If I buy a bike and fit my own headset does that void the warranty?

well said 🙄

Ha, of course. I don't understand why companies sell frame only options then. I've voided all my last 4 builds as I'm not a mechanic.

The new bike is going to a mechanic.

Can I fit my own bb when the one with the bike wears out 😉

Hang on, do Devinci dealers sell mail order bikes?

I really think that you should be talking to freeborn/haven about this not moaning on a forum. Attempting to damage their business because you don't agree with their assessment of what has caused your frame to fail is pretty poor form.

of course i have been talking with them

for example the first thing that they said me was to send the frame from spain and they will decide if they could raclaim under warranty... not a very friendy answer to start 😐

not a very friendy answer to start

How else would you like them to proceed?

[quote=mcgowan ]for example the first thing that they said me was to send the frame from spain and they will decide if they could raclaim under warranty... not a very friendy answer to start Sorry, but how else would you expect them to react?

haha are you ****ing kidding me? You expected them to do a warranty assessment from 1,000 miles away??

Hang on, do Devinci dealers sell mail order bikes?

you are the one Mosey 😉

speaking about " professional cycle mechanic " and selling frames by mail order???? WTF!!!!

*The bicycle was not entirely assembled by an authorized devinci
retailer;

Does this mean that any mail order Devinci, that comes in a bike box partly built, has its warranty voided as soon as it leaves the store?

haha are you **** kidding me? You expected them to do a warranty assessment from 1,000 miles away??

no, but first they could asked me some photos, asked about what parts I have been using... a Little bit of the kidness that they show me when I was buying the bike

Standard reply. You won't find many companies who will process a warranty claim without physically seeing the item in question. You chose to buy from a supplier over the Internet in another country. You should expect to have to send it back in the event of a problem. So that, to me at least, seems totally fair.

That's the same for any brand - you've just got to hope/assume that common sense comes into play, but any mail order bike should just need (along the lines of) bars turned and pedals on so it's not really being assembled away from the shop

True legend but Devinci went to the effort to put "entirely" in the warranty document.

Anyway I'm going off topic.

The bicycle was not entirely assembled by an authorized devinci
retailer;

Does this mean that any mail order Devinci, that comes in a bike box partly built, has its warranty voided as soon as it leaves the store?

freeborn told me that the frame had warranty for life, they did not talk me about assembly it by an autorized devinci retailer...

Send it to them and speak to them. Although they have no reason to give you a new frame for free based on what you have said hereyou may well be surprised. If you don't send it to them and start the possible warranty progress how can you know what the outcome will be?!

Yeah the bike 100% has to be sent in. It's the risk you take. Just like if I bought a Canyon.