Thing is, at least they're being honest, and it's obvious they never intend to stand by their warranty.
They could have easily said "we've inspected it and we believe the damage to be caused by an improperly installed seatpost". That might be questionable, but it wouldn't necessarily mean a future boycott of all Giant bikes.
Without Ian Giant would be GT.
Outstanding.
FWIW, I've never really thought about buying a Giant as they're mostly ugly gates, but this thread had done nothing to make me less uninterested in them.
Without Ian Giant would be GT.
Chapeau.
Without Ian Giant would be GT.
👏👏👏
STW comment of 2023 (so far)
Serial Giant owner here. Just reading this and it seems is have swiftly invalidated the warranty on every Giant I have owned. starting with fitting an early model contact switch dropper to a 26' trance, after I had bought them both in a Giant dealer at the same time!
Giant will be fully aware if this frame is prone to cracking in this way. If it’s a known thing just send out a new frame job done.
If it was an unusual failure I’d have thought they would show a little more interest and not be so hard nosed about it!
This ^^.
Bike companies can learn a lot from a failure and it's usually fairly easy to tell if it's from manufacturing error or rider error.
We once sent a Kona back - it was obvious the guy had ridden it into a wall or done a hard nose landing off a jump but we had to make it look good cos he was being an arse. However we also made it very clear to Kona exactly what we thought.
They sent back a hilarious letter to the guy - one of those that manages to be devastatingly rude while sounding polite. But they were still interested in seeing their frame to assess how it had stood up to what was clearly crash damage.
The known failure ones, we'd just replace the part with no issues - did some swingarms on an early suspension bike once where they were cracking at the pivot. Known failure. New swingarm. No problems, it was never even questioned.
Given the breadth of bikes and likely consumers a manufacturer like Giant has, versus say Transition (and therefore, likely competence and mechanical sympathy) you’d reasonably suggest that the bigger, broader brands might need at least two warranty policies depending on the product.
Equally, given the warranty applies to everything from suspension and wheels to frames, you could imagine why the the conditions and terms for accepting a warranty claim on a serviceable item like a set of forks or wheels could/should be much more restrictive than a frame.
One warranty policy to cover all clearly is flawed, which means really you’re relying (as are the manufacturer) on your dealer to support your claim where appropriate, and not submit claims where obviously not valid…
I’d have thought at the very least, you’d have been asked or thought to leave the seat post in when you dropped it off, it’s the only component likely to validate the claim. Hard to point your finger at the shop without knowing full circumstances, or the capability of the one person you spoke to, but I think that’s where I’d point my frustration - they should have told you stripping it yourself would likely invalidate the claim.
I can’t imagine the warranty terms for any of the big brands are much different - does anybody know?
Without Ian Giant would be GT.
Top work there.
Given the breadth of bikes and likely consumers a manufacturer like Giant has, versus say Transition (and therefore, likely competence and mechanical sympathy) you’d reasonably suggest that the bigger, broader brands might need at least two warranty policies depending on the product.
Talking about Transition, if you want a bike with painless warranty support, I would highly recommend them.
Just make sure to Ridewrap / Invisiframe from new because the paint is crap. Definitely not a brand for the OCD rider who needs their bike to look showroom new.
Thing is, at least they’re being honest, and it’s obvious they never intend to stand by their warranty.
They could have easily said “we’ve inspected it and we believe the damage to be caused by an improperly installed seatpost”. That might be questionable, but it wouldn’t necessarily mean a future boycott of all Giant bikes.
It's not the warranty claim rejection which is the main contention now; rather the stated admission and revelation that owners can't work on their own bikes without requiring an Authorised Giant Dealer to do it.
You're right, they are being honest, especially in regarding that their warranty is meaningless and impractical to adhere to for owners.
In the event of a frame failure and in rejection of a claim under warranty, under UK law you can very cheaply bring a claim against the retailer and given the unfair terms evidenced here one would be very unlikely to lose the depreciation from the settlement too.
Transition are indeed excellent. I wrote to them asking for advice about drilling a hole in a frame. They wrote back with really good information and confirmed that warranty would exclude damage due to the hole (obvs!!!), however any other area on the frame would still be covered. I have it in writing that I can drill a hole in my frame, myself, and still get support.
I bought another Transition partly based on that. I had an issue and the fix is to fit a shorter bolt. New bolts arrived in the post within a week with instructions to DIY or an offer to wait and have them do it. I chose DIY.
Giant now off my shortlist of road bikes.
I can only speak of personal experience - but Whyte/ATB-Sales sent a courier to collect a suspension linkage; inspected it and had a replacement back with me in time for a weekend ride. I didn't have to ask to strip it down to the part with the issue; they told me to !
10/10 would buy again - the vast majority of my other bikes are built up from frame + parts sourced separately; the only thing I've used a bike shop for in terms of maintenance in 10 years or so was to get an emergency spoke repair whilst I was at work and riding that evening. Not being able to self service would be an absolute deal breaker for me.
Giant failure
In the event of a frame failure and in rejection of a claim under warranty, under UK law you can very cheaply bring a claim against the retailer
Are you confusing legal rights under consumer legislation and warranty which is over and above this at the discretion of the manufacturer?
Are you confusing legal rights under consumer legislation and warranty which is over and above this at the discretion of the manufacturer
surely if a product is sold with a warranty that any reasonable person can see is not worth the paper it’s written on then that falls under the category of being miss sold, so you would be protected by consumer legislation?
I maybe talking bollocks though here, but that sounds like a reasonable take to me
Esh.. I had a test ride on the Giant Reign 29, Whyte T140 RS, Vitus Escarpe 29 and others.. this thread put Giant on the black list, so I picked up one of the others. Giant was the lightest and top contender on riding feel too.
Buying bikes is as much, if not more, a heart decision as head decision. You emotionally invest in the brand/model through experiences, marketing, customer service, giving back to the industry and everything else that pulls on the heartstrings. Take emotion out and we'd all be riding no-name alibaba frames with deore that hit the right price and functional points, yet the trails are filled with Transition, Cotic, Santa Cruz and other brands, large and small, that are far more expensive than they need to be.
I've had 3 Giants in my time and won't be going back now. No matter how things change. I'm just not emotionally invested in them anymore.
Take emotion out and we’d all be riding no-name alibaba frames with deore that hit the right price and functional points
Hey! I ride Deore gears, drivetrain and brakes! On my Cotic though, naturally.
On my Cotic though, naturally.
Obvs fell for the marketing 😜
If that's what you call it! 🤣 We try.
OP did you pay by credit card? If so you may have a claim under the Consumer Credit Act Section 75
I am surprised to read this thread (not surprised that the frame is cracked, they have been doing this for ages). I had a Trance frame replaced under warranty in 2016 ish after it cracked at the seat tube/top tube weld, it was replaced in days and there was no conversation about loads of aftermarket parts on the bike and who fitted them.
I wouldn't rush to buy another knowing they are prone to cracking, now I know that they wiggle out of warranty claims on frames that are known for cracking in the first places means there absolutely wont be a Giant bike in my future.
I feel like every time someone buys a bike and has deliberately avoided buying Giant because of this thread, they should comment on here to keep it live.
I'm actually amazed that we've got through Monday without an "official" statement from Giant UK via Singletrackworld (and I don't mean the forum). Maybe their legal team want a bit more time.
I feel an overwhelming need to hug the OP and anyone who owns a giant. Or is considering buying one.
You poor, poor deluded bastards. ❤️
Four of my mates ride Giants and we’re flying to Finale Ligure in May. I’d better let them know that their warranties will be void when they bag up their bikes.
I feel like every time someone buys a bike and has deliberately avoided buying Giant because of this thread, they should comment on here to keep it live.
Very much this ^^^
I think it would also be interesting to have some kind of poll on how many of us would have invalidated a Giant warranty. I’m pretty sure everyone I have ever met through cycling will have at some point worked on their own bike?
Just for balance, we've got 2 Giants. Mrs BigJohn has a Dirt-e, I have a Trance. I'm seeing this as "one of those things" and I expect any manufacturer would have a similar blip from time to time.
If I liked a Giant next time I was looking, I wouldn't have a 2nd thought about buying it.
FWIW, other bikes in the garage are a Scott, Pinarello, Cotic, Charge, Diamondback and a couple of ancient pub bikes.
I’m actually amazed that we’ve got through Monday without an “official” statement from Giant UK via Singletrackworld (and I don’t mean the forum). Maybe their legal team want a bit more time.
We have statements from Giant and a long list of other brands too. Check back in the morning.
Blip ? Really, and this thread hasn't put you off.😬
Thanks @Mark. Will I need the big mug of tea?
And the catering pack of biscuits?
We have statements from Giant and a long list of other brands too. Check back in the morning
I wonder if their ‘statement’ reflects anything like reality.
Wondering whether this has anything to do with the radio silence from both parties in the last 24 hours since Ian posted.
We have statements from Giant and a long list of other brands too. Check back in the morning.
Radio silence? Nothing to report. Apart from telling @brant I’m 32/32 lol
What time in the morning. I'm on the road early.
Transition are indeed excellent
My experience backs this up also.
Snapped a second hand Smuggler. I had ragged the shit out of it over several years and I'm a heavy biffer. It owed me nothing.
I didn't really expect anything out of it but raised with windwave to see if any assistance could be offered.
It was past the warranty period (they now get lifetime I believe, didn't back then) and second owner, but they still sorted me out with a new frame 40% off list price. Did loads of faffing about on my behalf and shipped it all the way over from the US for me at the height of COVID shortages.
Brilliant service from both transition and windwave👍
The amount of money I'd have to spend taking my bike to a bike shop to get it serviced by an approved dealer would be huge over the years. Given I do all my own work (unless I don't have a specific tool) that would have to be factored into the cost of buying a Giant, never mind the faff and time spent without the bike.
Indeed. It would be cheaper, and less time consuming, to just get Cytech/Velotech trained and certified.
Indeed. It would be cheaper, and less time consuming, to just get Cytech/Velotech trained and certified.
And Giant authorised?
I gather some of you are also on Pinkbike
https://m.pinkbike.com/news/livs-intrigue-lt-is-their-most-aggressive-bike-yet.html
The quote from the warranty was;
Bicycles serviced by a non Authorised Giant Dealer.
I can only assume that there are Authorised Giant Dealers and other Giant Dealers that are not Authorised. you wouldn't fall into the excluded category so you would be fine.
Wonder if this is Giant's Ratner moment.
Without Ian Giant would be GT.
I once went to see a band. The keyboard player, his name was Ian, played a Roland piano. He stuck gaffer tape over the Ro and the d facing the audience 😃
*gets big tea mug out for the morning*
I expect this will pose more questions than it answers.
What I'm wondering is whether Brant monitors trouser fora looking for PR opportunities?
I monitor everything all of the time.
I monitor everything all of the time.
Ah, you take a belt and braces approach.
I monitor everything all of the time.
From the HebTroCo [s]lair [/s] HQ.
Surely more like -
Naah - HebTroCo crack surveillance team at work...
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@wysiwyg So what's he status of this now? Is everything finished... ie. the warranty claim rejected and no other developments expected or planned?
I monitor everything all of the time.
I once had a manger who liked to micro manage . Not nice
"We have statements from Giant and a long list of other brands too. Check back in the morning"
59 minutes to go......my coffee has already gone cold
Just getting last minute info from various people. Won't be long. Turns out getting lots of the bike industry to all answer questions at the same time is harder that you'd think 🙂
...especially considering all the ramifications for their 'policies', and possibilities for a sizeable can of worms regarding past similar denials.
Well we know what giant's position is...
Well we know what giant’s position is…
I'm not sure even they do.
Ah, you take a belt and braces approach
👏
Just getting last minute info from various people. Won’t be long. Turns out getting lots of the bike industry to all answer questions at the same time is harder that you’d think
Responses from bike industry:
That's not the reply from the bike industry, they would have eaten the green and red crayons at the very least
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EDIT: ha, new thread just appeared, good work STW 👍
EDIT EDIT: giant's reply does them no favours 🤔 😂
So, wait, Giant says they can, but they also can't? I'm really confused now.
So what was Giant's formal statement?
Ah, you take a belt and braces approach.
This did not get enough credit.
So what was Giant’s formal statement?
Reading the article, it was a bit if a nothing statement, that is/was contradicted by the emails the OP got from Giant UK.
Didn't actually clear up anything IMHO.
Been following this with interest having worked for a brand that has a less than flawless warranty reputation, a shop that was an exemplar of "the customer's always right" even when they blatantly weren't and many years ago had a very good experience with the company currently being flamed,I find squirrelling the means by which one can compare the industry response behind the members only pay wall a bit of a dick move. It seems to be the way of things these days, from political misdemeanours to clickbait headlines, you have to work hard to find the truth.
Can a user remove the shock and fork, send it for servicing, and re-fit it to their bike without voiding the warranty?
Yes they can , however if they enquire we always recommend that the customer takes the bike to an authorised retailer for such work.
Can a user carry out their own repairs without voiding the warranty? Are there any exclusions to this?
We fully appreciate that some riders service and replace parts on their own bikes as well as get their bikes serviced and parts replaced by non-Giant retailers and in the majority of scenarios this is unlikely to affect any warranty. However If a situation does occur where an issue is directly attributed to the change being incorrectly completed then this can create problems.
Are there any maintenance or repair tasks which you require to be carried out by an authorised dealer to maintain the warranty’s validity?
No there is nothing specific but we do recommend talking with your retailer to know and understand service intervals.
Compare and contrast with the texts from Giant to OP. They are talking about 'reviewing the processes which led to this situation', and hopefully that word salad actually means they are going to sort it for him.
Crikey! A bit of humility could have gone a long way here instead I think the situation for Giant is even worse and we're all even more as confused!
I've taken the liberty of drafting a response that may help...
Sorry we cocked up.
Here's a new frame.
We're reviewing our policies and making sure everyone knows what they are so we don't cock up again.
Sorry again.
Loads of Love
Giant
I’ve taken the liberty of drafting a response that may help…
Sorry we cocked up.
Here’s a new frame.
We’re reviewing our policies and making sure everyone knows what they are so we don’t cock up again.
Sorry again.Loads of Love
Giant
I wish more companies would speak plain English...
From the Pinkbike thread:
A quote from Giant's T&C's:
THE ABOVE WARRANTY, OR ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY, DOES NOT COVER NORMAL WEAR AND TEAR. ALL WARRANTIES ARE VOID IF THE BICYCLE IS MODIFIED FROM ITS ORIGINAL CONDITION OR THE BICYCLE IS USED FOR OTHER THAN NORMAL ACTIVITIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, FAILING TO FOLLOW THE OWNER’S MANUAL OR USING THE BICYCLE FOR COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES OR IN COMPETITIVE EVENTS, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO BICYCLE RACING, BICYCLE MOTORCROSS RACING, STUNT RIDING, RAMP JUMPING OR SIMILAR ACTIVITIES, AND TRAINING FOR SUCH ACTIVITIES OR EVENTS. GIANT MAKES NO OTHER WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. Except to the extent specifically prohibited by law, ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, ARE LIMITED IN DURATION TO THAT OF THE EXPRESS WARRANTIES STATED ABOVE.
So anyone who:
- guides or uses a Giant for work, no warranty.
- anyone who trains for a race, no warranty.
- anyone who races, no warranty.
I see Giant are now advertising for a digital marketing specialist...
My bad, didn't see the date on the Tweet - back in 2021
Update: I have spoken to Ian, they are going to as he said reevaluate the CS procedure as this shouldnt have got to this point, it IS policy to want the full bike to evaluate, the cost should not be passed on to the consumer. I am awaiting contact from the warranty department themselves, not the CS team regarding my reopened claim.
Common sense seems to have prevailed.
Wheres the like button?
Update: I have spoken to Ian, they are going to as he said reevaluate the CS procedure as this shouldnt have got to this point, it IS policy to want the full bike to evaluate, the cost should not be passed on to the consumer. I am awaiting contact from the warranty department themselves, not the CS team regarding my reopened claim.
Common sense seems to have prevailed.
That is indeed great news... It won't change how i see the future of bike purchases in terms of Giant, but it will hopefully resolve your issue.
Common sense seems to have prevailed.
I'm not sure it's common sense, it's pressure from the public and this turning into some very bad publicity for Giant. Good news all the same for you, hope its resolved soon.
WARRANTIES ARE VOID IF THE BICYCLE IS MODIFIED FROM ITS ORIGINAL CONDITION
does that include changing tyres or going tubeless?
Excellent news and hopefully a good result will come out of this for you Wysiwyg.
@wysiwyg gets replacement from from Giant under warranty.
Soon followed by a new, warranty-replacement Giant frame appearing in the classifieds and the purchase of a replacement frame from Bird/Cotic/Trek/other manufacturer who responded to the STW questions.
