You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Currently running 2x10 (34/22 on the front and 11-36 cassette)
Due a drive train upgrade, can see all the advantages of 1x, even think bike will look a lot better!
However i have a nagging doubt that I'll run out of gears that's stopping me pressing the button.
Can someone have a word, i mean reassure me.
How do i know what size cassette/chain ring to go for the new setup
thanks in advance.
1x is rubbish.
Happy to help.
[quote=6079smithw ]1x is rubbish.
+1000
Feeling better already, eh?
Do a search, it's been done to death, and ignore sweeping generalisations like that up there ^^^
see this is exactly what i'm concerned about 🙂
There's such a wide spread of gears on 1X systems now that you shouldn't loose out on gears. I'm not the fittest guy in the world, but even in Calderdale when I live 1X is more than sufficient.
Get yourself a sunrace 11-46t cassette and 32t chainring. I am yet to run out of range. Perhaps run out of puff on Fire road descents but then who cares about that. I avoid wasting altitude on fireroads wherever possible!
Ok, for balance.
It's fine.
Do the maths, 10-42 should give you the same range as what you have already (or maybe 1 out)
You have all the ratios you need to test it- just figure out which gears you'd lose, and go for a ride without using them.
You hear sometimes from people who jumped into 1x without really understanding what gears they'd have and then discover they needed the low gears, and frankly, they're mostly divs. Sure, you can get caught out by a ride that's outwith your norms (there was a kinlochleven enduro that became the Bonfire of the 1x10s, the long grinding climb broke so many people that thought 1x10 was perfect for them but actually just hadn't yet found a ride they couldn't do) but if it happens in your normal rides- you're a div.
and frankly, they're mostly divs.
Thanks Northy, my monitor now has soup running down it, as does my nostril.... 😆
Do the maths, 10-42 should give you the same range as what you have already (or maybe 1 out)
You have all the ratios you need to test it- just figure out which gears you'd lose
i think its the maths that i need to understand
whats the equivalent of 22:36, its not 32:46
Go smaller up front. 30 or 28 if you need that low one
Your current chainset doesn't give a massive range so you're less likely to lose much range.
[url= http://gear-calculator.com/?GR=DERS&KB=22,34&RZ=11,13,15,17,19,21,24,28,32,36&UF=2215&TF=90&SL=2.6&UN=MPH&GR2=DERS&KB2=32&RZ2=11,13,15,18,21,24,28,32,36,42,50&UF2=2215 ]I set this up with your current gearset on the top and what I personally would swap it for on the bottom.[/url]
It is set for the new sunrace 11-50 11spd cassette which isn't in the sprocket drop down menu yet but most of the other casstte options are listed so you can look at 10-42 or 11-46 etc.
Play around with it, slide the sprockets around to see changes and go back to the link if you changed a lot of stuff and want to reset it.
Find a gear calculator, Sheldon Brown has one, then plug in the figures.
28 is the answer to your calc
My 10 year old daughter is running a 30t chainring and 11-36.
Have a word with yourself and DaughterTFU
😉
I'm underwhelmed by 1x11
On my trail bike (T-130) I'm running a 32T up front and 11x11-42 on the back...
prior to this I had a 10x 12-40 on the back... (removed the 11 and stuck and expander)
Quite honestly never needed an easier gear but ..... same (for me) non-issue as here....
Get yourself a sunrace 11-46t cassette and 32t chainring. I am yet to run out of range. [b]Perhaps run out of puff on Fire road descents[/b] but then who cares about that. I avoid wasting altitude on fireroads wherever possible!
I quite honestly can't see what any extra gears ever did for me.... anything too steep/slippery for the 32T/40 or 42 I can't easily keep the front wheel down..or I move weight forward and the back wheel loses traction.
You can try 1x10 for cost of a few stamps....
Get a used expander ring.... and used narrow wide
Give it a go ....
If you don't like it stick it back on ebay
If you do then rip off the front mech....
If you feel the need for 1 extra gear... then new rear mech, chain, cassette, shifter .... (and depending what you run way to attach to brakes/bar)
I have same lowest gear as you on 2x10 setup (22-36) on my 26 inch Soul
I have 1x11, with 32-46 on my 650b Anthem. The Anthem is not quite as low geared as the Soul, but gets up the same steep stuff on my fitness limit, largely as it keeps better traction when sitting down on bumpy rocky climbs.
Get yourself a sunrace 11-[s]46[/s][b]50[/b]t cassette and [s]32[/s][b]34[/b]t chainring. I am yet to run out of range.
Bottom end the same as a 3x granny, top end quick enough
11-50 😯 have you considered doing some exercise? 😀
whats the equivalent of 22:36, its not 32:46
22:36 = 0.611
32:46 = 0.696 so a bit harder roughly 22:32
30:46 = 0.652, bit harder then your current easiest, pretty much 22:34
28:46 = 0.609 so a bit easier than your current.
Top end wise:
34:11 = 3.091
28:11 = 2.545 so not as fast but a bit slower than 34:13 (2.615) and a bit faster than 34:14 (2.429).
Give it a go on your current set up and see what you think, then buy what you think is best.
FWIW I ride a XC 29er FS with 32 up front and 11/42 out back, can get up most things with enough grunt and generally don't use the easiest 2 gears.
11-50 have you considered doing some exercise?
FWIW I'm still running 11-42, was just illustrating the art of the possible for the OP. But I can see 11-50 makes sense if you're a spinner rather than a grunter and have big hills to ride up while keeping a bigger chainring for top end.
22:36 = 0.61132:46 = 0.696 so a bit harder roughly 22:32
30:46 = 0.652, bit harder then your current easiest, pretty much 22:34
28:46 = 0.609 so a bit easier than your current.
Thanks that was what i was looking for.
You can try 1x10 for cost of a few stamps....
Get a used expander ring.... and used narrow wide
Give it a go ....
good idea!
good idea!
Honestly don't stress about gear ratio's....
I had gears on my 2x10 that I used because they were there...
The only compromise I feel I made was top speed... but for me it's a non-issue.. if I can't pedal any faster on a 32/12 or 32/11 I'll freewheel as I'm not racing...but that's rare and fireroads... I honestly [b]rarely [/b]miss the granny ring and that's only after a really really long day..and I can walk as fast as my 32/42...
I was actually surprised as I'd expected to miss the granny gears but now i wonder what I used them for. (I get it on a bike carrying a tent etc. or even a fat bike but I'm just not missing the gears at all)
I'm also disappointed in 1x11 over 1x10.... at least in terms of £££/benefit
If you are due a new cassette and chain anyway it's one thing but neither is cheap in 11 speed ... then you need the rear mech and shifter...
On my kids race bike I'm keeping 1x10 as its more flexible ... he did a flat XC race a week ago and I took off the 40T and stuck the 11T back on...
10 minute job... and when he's using the trainer (on his 24" bike) I've got a 10 speed tighter ratio 11-32 cassette on an old heavy wheel
Might also be worth considering the new Shimano M6000 wide 10 speed 11 -42 cassettes and 11- 42 compatible mechs, due for release later this year, would allow you to use your existing shifters.
No more messing around with expanders and goat links etc
I have 1x11, with 32-46 on my 650b Anthem. The Anthem is not quite as low geared as the Soul, but gets up the same steep stuff on my fitness limit, largely as it keeps better traction when sitting down on bumpy rocky climbs.
this is the setup i thought i would end up with.
It is set for the new sunrace 11-50 11spd cassette which isn't in the sprocket drop down menu yet but most of the other casstte options are listed so you can look at 10-42 or 11-46 etc.
Play around with it, slide the sprockets around to see changes and go back to the link if you changed a lot of stuff and want to reset it.
very useful thanks. For my normal set of riding locations i don't actually ever drop down to 22:36 and only into 22:32 for one climb in particular - infact i currently have to kick the front mech to get it to change down so 99% of my riding is done in the 34 ring (this is part of the reason i think i may not need 2x10)
Going by that calculator looks like 33-46 would give me the equivalent of the lowest gear i actually use whilst more or less matching the current top end.
You mean to say people are still using a front mech?! WTF
99% of my riding is done in the 34 ring (this is part of the reason i think i may not need 2x10)
If this is the case, you'll be fine
I have 1x11 on two of my bikes and it's fine. I run 36 at the front and 11-46 on the back and have yet to have an issue including Afan climbs which seem to go on for most of the ride!
That having been said, I rented a T130 RS this week which had a 32t chainring and (I think) 11-46 at the rear. Yes, I ran out of gears, but not at the low end. I pretty much only used the smallest 3 sprockets for most of the ride and was frustrated by lack of speed at the top end.
1x can be great, but you absolutely need to match the chainring to your riding. Too big and you'll suffer on hills and too small and you'll go crazy spinning out.
At the rear, you need to decide your strategy. There are two camps here, both pretty much want the biggest sprocket on offer. One side loves even spacing right through the cassette. The other camp prefers to have a massive jump (Shimano style) to replicate having two chainrings. Shimano provide two "climbing gears" and 9 cadence gears for the trail. I believe Sunrace (from reading here, no experience) more evenly space so you lose the cadence changing through the block but get more even changes throughout. Horses for courses 🙂
looks like 33-46 would give me the equivalent of the lowest gear i actually use whilst more or less matching the current top end
Is top end an issue for you ??
If you are racing XC then I can see why but at least for me it's something only really used on fireroads anyway..
Incidentally don't forget to take wheel size into account ... for reference my numbers are for 27.5 .. (the 7yr kid has 32/40 on 24")
I honestly reckon you should try it... no amount of doing the maths will compensate ... I know I sometimes used my 22/36 ... I just can't work out WHY any more... I had a spreadsheet at the time and calculated the ratio's and on paper (well virtual paper) I'd have not changed ... but I had a spare NW (from the kids bike) and borrowed his 40T expander and gave it a try... next day I was getting a 40T expander...
steve_b77 - MemberTop end wise:
34:11 = 3.091
28:11 = 2.545 so not as fast but a bit slower than 34:13 (2.615) and a bit faster than 34:14 (2.429).
Worth lookign at SRAM cassettes too - yes, it probably means a new freehib, but the 10t is a significant difference.
30:10 gives 3.0 so pretty much same top end as 34:11
Just swapped over to 1x11 with a 30 tooth upfront. Bottom gear is fine for a fat unfit biffer like myself
Top gear is fine up to around 20 mph which is fine on an mtb
Big question is do you like close ratios. If so then stick with a double and a tight ratio cassette.
i think its the maths that i need to understandwhats the equivalent of 22:36, its not 32:46
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html
Punch in what you use now, punch in various options with different chainring and cassette sizes on 1x11, work out if you can live with what you'd lose.
Yes, I ran out of gears, but not at the low end. I pretty much only used the smallest 3 sprockets for most of the ride and was frustrated by lack of speed at the top end.
Really? 32/11 on a 29er and I can hold 32/33kph on the road and have reached the heady heights of 53kph in an XC race on a downward sloping fire-road.
32t chainring and (I think) 11-46 at the rear. Yes, I ran out of gears, but not at the low end. I pretty much only used the smallest 3 sprockets for most of the ride
I must be extremely unfit, as with the same range I use all of the cassette, including the lowest gear, going round GT red.... 😳
I do like a high cadence mind you ...
having moved from a 2x to a 1x (24,23x36 and 30x42) for mud clearance with an etype bb i can honestly say that the 2x is a better system for me.
One thing i noticed going to a 1x is that setting off i seemed to flip back more on really steep hills. Although the ratios are near the same i think tis easier to get over the front on the 2x (which makes no sense but thats how i feel)
Yes I really did run out of gears. Spinning out on a fire track is irrelevant, you can't hold that cadence off-road. The 32t chainring is nowhere near what I need and I'm not massively fit, in fairness I was only riding Swinley so an easy ride. My point wasn't that I'm some kind of superman but rather that everyone has a comfortable range and you need to find that to be happy with 1x11.
2x setups generally covered everyone and then some at one end of the range. 1x works because we can drop the end we don't use or a bit from either side.
Sturmey archer 3*9 (no reason why an 11 speed cog won't fit?)
...For those wishing to ditch the front mech.
I'm ditching 1x11 (32 x 10-42) for my new bike.
Helloooo 1x12 8)
The only time I've run out of gears at either end has been when im beyond knackered, or the hill I'm riding up is best described as 'sheer'. It's fast enough at the top end.
I'm sure the last time we did this we agreed that 1x systems were fine for those who thought a long day in the saddle was anything in excess of 3 hours.
...bottling it...
You're not getting the snip, a 1x drivetrain can be reversed without the need for anesthetic...
scotroutes -
I'm sure the last time we did this we agreed that 1x systems were fine for those who thought a long day in the saddle was anything in excess of 3 hours.
Made me proper laugh out load that did.
😛
scotroutes - Member
I'm sure the last time we did this we agreed that 1x systems were fine for those who thought a long day in the saddle was anything in excess of 3 hours.
So anything over 3 hours then, you sure that's right 😉
You're not getting the snip, a 1x drivetrain can be reversed without the need for anesthetic
Bah it's just a figure of speech.
I'm buying a new drivetrain for frame I'm building up so probably send a couple of hundred on 1x11 kit, whilst it's not an earth shattering amount of money it will still erk me if I have to spend a similar amount replacing it.
By bottling it I mean adding to the basket and not checking out.
The Shimano 11 speed cranks do both 1x and 2x. The rear mech will still be fine. All that you'd have to add to a 1x system is a chainring, front mech, shifter and cable. You might look to go to a smaller-range cassette at the same time but those are consumables anyway. The important thing is not to buy a frame that can't take 2x as your choices will then be limited.
I'm buying a new drivetrain for frame I'm building up so probably send a couple of hundred on 1x11 kit, whilst it's not an earth shattering amount of money it will still erk me if I have to spend a similar amount replacing it.
If it's really causing you worry maybe just go for the poorman's interim option (that's what I did), keep your 10-speed mech, buy an 11-40/11-42 Sunrace (or similar) and a N/W ring and see how you like general 1xN-ness for ~£60 before committing to the full £2-300 spend on 1x11...
Should you choose to go 1x11 those old 10-speed bit's will still be ebay-able so you can recoup some of the trial costs...
By my calcs.. to match the range of 2x (22/34 11-36) you'd need an 11-56t cassette, and an 11-68t cassette for 3x (22/32/44 11-34)
I run 30t 10-42 on my 29er and 32t 11-42 on my 650b.
GF who has been riding about a year is running 30t 11-36 on her 650b.
We ride mostly in the peaks.
By my calcs.. to match the range of 2x...
And thus the point is always missed.
Who has ever claimed 1x drivetrain users were trying to replicate the range of their old 2x drivetrains?
2x/3x It's all just 'Moar geerz' innit (half of them redundant)... If that's what you're into then fair enough.
And thus the point is always missed.Who has ever claimed 1x drivetrain users were trying to replicate the range of their old 2x drivetrains?
The hardest bit to get your head around is top end IMHO, there is still the old school pedal pedal pedal being the only way to go faster, most of the time on anything other than a fire road it's skill not pedalling and at times the pedalling is actually doing nothing beneficial. The most common thing I find these days is getting in too high a gear off road.
On road/fir roads - you can get very close to a double range these days, how often are you going full flat out in 11t?
Pick the low point and go from there, though I am very keen to try Eagle if I had the cash 🙂
Dunno about you - but I often have to ride on roads for a bit to get to where I actually want to ride. My old solaris (before it was nicked) was setup 3x10 and I could get out in my lunch hour, nail it get to somewhere interesting, have a good 35 minutes and get back.
On my 1x11? No chance.
I miss the top end massively. Second bike will be coming this year to do a bit of bikepacking and trails on. Will be 2x11. Even though I now hate front derailleurs and their ugly clutter and extra shifters.
I know a few people who run a "ghost granny", so keep the 22t but lose the front mech. Whilst it seems a bit pointless, they like it for a quick manual change if thet have a steep long climb at the end of a day in the saddle.
If I want to go quickly on a road I have a road bike (2x) or a cross bike for a bit of 50/50 action (taller range 1x)...
Otherwise who actually cares if an MTB isn't the most efficient tarmac muncher for the few miles it has to cover on a road... It's bit like complaining your range rover doesn't get the same MPG as a prius on the school run.
It's just differing priorities, if having 30 cog combinations gives you what you want then stick with it.
If the "less is more" argument strikes a chord then there is an option for you too... I don't really see what the front mech fans are so up in arms about.
However i have a nagging doubt that I'll run out of gears that's stopping me pressing the button.Can someone have a word, i mean reassure me.
I had the same gearing ratio as you with a 2x10 on a 29er and changed to 1x10 with a 30t chain ring and 11-42 cassette.
Was frequently running out of gears at the low end and struggling on steep climbs.
Changed the chainring to a 28t and no problems now. Even at the top-end I can still pedal at speeds above 40km/h which is more than enough for me, how often when mountain biking do you need higher gears than that. I even manage to pedal at 50 km/h (but with fast rpm). You'd have to be doing loads of road descents to want higher gears than that, and as far as I'm concerned, if a ride is full of those, it isn't proper mountain biking.
This gearing range is certainly okay for me so no problems with 1x10 in the range department
I rode up a monster climb this morning. At the start I was sure 1x10/11-42 would be fine. At the end I was very happy with my 3x9 setup.
All of our bikes involve trade-offs. 1x11 hasn't had much in the way of downside for me so far, but I'm quietly glad that my frame would accept a front mech if I ended up somewhere where the terrain meant that another chainring was needed.
🙂
Didn't realise anyone still made mtb front mechs.
You don't see many bikes then?
I have tried both 2x10 and 1x10, and settled on 2x10. Main reasons are range, chain line, and most importantly, ability to shift down really quickly if you unexpectedly run into a steep incline - one flick of the left thumb and you're in a suitably low ratio. 2x10 it is for me.
You don't see many bikes then?
Not with front mechs on no. Majority of modern frames can't even fit one.
ability to shift down really quickly if you unexpectedly run into a steep incline
Must admit, the modern RH shifters where you can dump three gears with one push have softened one of my objections to 1x setups. But then, the newer side-swing mech I've got on my latest bike have removed one of my pet hates about front mechs.
I haven't used the bigger ring as much I as thought I would, but still, given the amount of road and fast track that pops up in my local loops, I would miss it.
When it gets cheap enough I may give it a go.
When it gets cheap enough I may give it a go.
Shouldn't cost you more than postage...assuming you have a 10 speed shifter/mech
Just buy a used expander and narrow wide on ebay and disconnect the front mech...
If you're sold you can either sell for what you paid and buy a better ratio or keep it... and if not just sell for what you paid and lose only postage?
1 x 1 here.
30 - 11 x 46.
Gears seem fine by me.
No problem climbing upto Leith Hill via Summer Lightning the other day & certainly didn't run out coming back down. I'd have to get it on a firewood to see how it fairs then..
Did some experimenting on the road back from a ride the other day, jeez there's some very fast people around if they run out of top end
I have 30 - 10/44 on a 29'er
30/44 is very close to 24/36 on a double (just over 2% difference). I wanted to match my old low gear
Re top end: In 9th gear I was around 16 - 19mph; 10th 19mph - 21mph ish, highest gear very comfortable at 25mph, getting a bit spinny at 27/28 mph . Reckon I'd be north if 30mph before spinning out
Didn't have a cadence sensor but usually ride cadence in low 80's