Out for a walk up the Tower Trail today and saw lots of this ....
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[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/druidh2000/6218035615/ ]Untitled[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/druidh2000/ ]druidh_dubh[/url], on Flickr
...would that be the same weekend warriors who complain about walkers on the cycle trails then?
right to roam? :0
pram wheels 😉
Right to roam is fine providing you are accessing the land and using it responsibly...going by that image it would be very easy for people to demonstrate irresponsible use of the land...
Doesn't bother me but I'm in a picky mood for some reason!
THIS IS A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT
Which bit is that druidh?
I think a point worth making is that the bike trails are purpose-built for mountainbiking and a recent addition to the forest; and generally walkers stay away from them.
Similarly there are recent walking trails that I hope/ believe bikers generally stay away from.
The crossover is that some bits now waymarked as walking routes have been there as long as I have been going to Glentress and overlap with oldskool biking routes in a few places. Remember also that a fair few sections of the Black are actually a shared use trail, as bike route sits where established paths were.
I think I have only seen a few people on foot on a bike trail in all the times I was at Glentress (though one was a man pushing a pushchair up the bottom of Falla Brae), and I have never seen anyone on foot where an old route crosses/ shares with a walking route.
would that be the same weekend warriors who complain about walkers on the cycle trails then?
I would doubt it, I think it would be very stupid of someone to complain about something if they were doing pretty much the same as they were.Besides the bikes could be getting pushed there.
You're being ironic - right?falkirk-mark - MemberI would doubt it, I think it would be very stupid of someone to complain about something if they were doing pretty much the same as they were.
No, I have been on trails and found (dog)walkers on them and thought (kin idiots)but then I have ridden on footpaths so it would be stupid to publicly moan about it.
"Whoosh "
That trail, if it's the one I think it is, is sort of odd in that there's always tyre marks but it doesn't really go anywhere anymore, it's still choked with deadfalls from the big storm a couple of years back. Maybe there's some singletrack on the DL that I've never found.
Never seen any walkers on GT MTB trails outside of one bad Ted on a motorbike in ten years.
* wonders if he'll make it worse by identifying it....*
🙂
* wonders if he'll make it worse by identifying it....*
Only if you tell the STW massive that it is insanely RADICAL.
I bet there will be a queue of stormtroopers Sunday...
Its Tower trail innit
I don't think that trail would be much worse if bikes hadn't been on it, its a badly drained section and is essentially acting as a stream/ditch as the surface water cant run off it. At least the bikes are going up the middle and not widening it. Also trails are there to be used, so what is really wrong with them becoming muddy? Doesn't look like bikes are threatening the structure or viability of the trail, its just showing signs of being heavily used in wet weather, as you would expect in a heavily visited forest.
falkirk-mark - Member
Its Tower trail innit
How did you guess...
.... 😀druidh - Member
Out for a walk up the [b]Tower Trail [/b]today and saw lots of this ....
I don't quite understand the point here, people are allowed to cycle on footpaths in Scotland right?
The point is that cyclists are allowed to ride on footpaths in Scotland - responsibly. Before rights come responsibilities, and in many cases this is ignored by a proportion of cyclists.
looks like pram wheels to me 😈
Its an interesting and odd area of debate. One of the grey areas in the LRA. I have seen walkers on the bike trails a fair bit at glentress - however until its been decided to be an "area set aside for that use" iirc is the wording then all paths are fair game for everyone,
Horses on spooky woods anyone? That would shit you right up
I don't think it's quite comparable to walking on the bike trails, since that's outright dangerous. But regardless of that, it's still incredibly [i]rude[/i].
(though... hands up anyone else who uses the walker's path just above the red squirrel to cut through onto the final part of falla brae sometimes? I know I do. I know FC staff do 😉 But we do so very shamefacedly)
It would make more sense to have that bit as a dedicated link - it just seems daft to be going downhill on a fire road at a trail centre.
So, you've got the right to roam (as long as it's not a wee bit muddy).
Seems the footprints are more damaging there than the wheels.
But either way, it's just churning up a bit of mud. It dries out. Not really damage. A lot of walkers rant about the "damage" bikes make but it's just mud. Ride on the sides and banks cutting into roots, vegetation and so on and that's another matter, but the impact is little different to a group of heavy boots (and walkers can turn up in numbers in the dozens).
rudedog - that bit IS a dedicated trail - dedicated to walkers. For those (everyone?) who haven't placed it yet, it's the path that eventually emerges alongside the wall onto the fireroad at the top of the Spooky Woods zigzags.
For those supporting the ' it's only mud' argument, you'd presumably be happy if none of the MTB trails were hardened?
[url= http://www.imba.com/resources/research/trail-science/perception-and-reality-conflict-walkers-and-mountain-bikes-queen-charlotte ]Been talked about all over the world. just type trail conlict into google[/url]
deadkenny - Member
Seems the footprints are more damaging there than the wheels.But either way, it's just churning up a bit of mud. It dries out. Not really damage. A lot of walkers rant about the "damage" bikes make but it's just mud. Ride on the sides and banks cutting into roots, vegetation and so on and that's another matter, but the impact is little different to a group of heavy boots (and walkers can turn up in numbers in the dozens).
Therefore all "secret/local" trails should be closed 😉
druidh - that path is part of the "original" path network at Glentress; I know some of it overlaps with the Tower walk, but as I have been riding it for longer than the Tower walk has been waymarked I continue to ride it (though tend to leave the non-waymarked stuff over winter).
It's also been used for Duathlons (maybe not for bike) and MTB races in recent times.
Looks pretty gnar - I'm on my way!
For those supporting the ' it's only mud' argument, you'd presumably be happy if none of the MTB trails were hardened?
Yep. Riding mud is fine, sometimes loads of fun especially if it's downhill 😀
Hardened trails in some trail centres can be like riding on roads 😉
But seriously, don't mind really. Hard, soft, mud, gravel, flint, rocks, roots, leaves. That's what MTB is about. All the more better when conditions change on more natural trails throughout the year.
And as for snow... ! best thing of all. Now it's getting colder, bring on the snow I say.
Therefore all "secret/local" trails should be closed 😉
If it keeps others off and I can have a cheeky ride on them yeah 😀
(though... hands up anyone else who uses the walker's path just above the red squirrel to cut through onto the final part of falla brae sometimes? I know I do. I know FC staff do But we do so very shamefacedly)
Waves!
I don't really see the issue. If people are occasionally using the odd bit of walking trail in Glentress so long as they are respectful of any walkers they come across.
As other have said bits of walking trail often get used in races anyway
But either way, it's just churning up a bit of mud. It dries out. Not really damage. A lot of walkers rant about the "damage" bikes make but it's just mud. Ride on the sides and banks cutting into roots, vegetation and so on and that's another matter, but the impact is little different to a group of heavy boots (and walkers can turn up in numbers in the dozens)
Agreed, I still see no issue, it is shallow surface mud on top of a poorly drained trail at a busy forest trail centre, just happens that you can see a few bike tracks in it as well as footprints. I've seen far worse in the Pentlands and where I grew up near Inverness.
weekend warriors
don't most people just ride on a weekend?
Yes but we don't do it in such a warlike manner.
Those tyre marks have been there for a hell of a long time. I probably left them there.
I was riding up on the Thief's Road the other weekend, and the trail was totally trashed by either:-
One bloke pogo-ing up and down like crazy in army surplus boots, or an entire regiment of squadies going for a stroll.. can't they march around the parade ground, or somewhere less environmentally impacting than the hills? 👿
The point? It's away over there=====>
Which way are you facing? I thought it was the other way..
Chickenman rule no.1: Never be relevant to the OP!
is that the path that heads down to near the start of deliverance?
druidh - Member
rudedog - that bit IS a dedicated trail - dedicated to walkers. For those (everyone?) who haven't placed it yet, it's the path that eventually emerges alongside the wall onto the fireroad at the top of the Spooky Woods zigzags.
😛
yes, but where's the other end of the path, ya nobber
so why haven't all the walkers in their nice clompy waterproof boots tamped the tyre grooves flat for us?
What tyres for the Tower Trail anyone?
druidh - I was up White hill behind Bonaly today and thought of you 😉
I've not been there for ages and was surprised how much of a mess the trails are getting in, I'm all for the kids riding their bikes and being constructive and there are some really nice bits of trail to ride, but its got to be getting to the point where non-bikers are going to be getting p!ssed off at the erosion and cutting of new trails? The bits that were there as 'natural' trails 5-6 years ago are now getting eroded into chutes and the main path is a slippery mess. Its pretty popular with families and dog walkers so I do wonder if it is going to become a sticking point if it isn't already.
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The rangers aren't very happy about the newer lines that cut down onto the path that runs up the side of the valley... But I think mainly the way it looks a little rough just now is the weather, I was up a few weeks ago and the lower slope especially was as wet as I've ever seen it other than after snow. Hard to tell from your pics but it looks like it's actually on the mend.
its just natural evolution everyone. Wats the issue anyway with new trails being made and ridden. What eventually happens is they become to hard to ide, so we make new trails and the old ones heal themselves, either that or every hillside in Britain would be a mess with trails.
We've only 1 life, and its short , so i say lets ride these trails and then dig new ones and ride them as well. Hills and mountains i'm sure will still be there in millions of years, hell i'm sure mother nature dont give a dam with its exploding volcanoes, tsunami's, tornados and hurricanes ripping into our lovely protected countryside. Its juts the worlds natural cycle. Where old dies, new is born
Raddogair - they don't heal once damaged beyond a certain amount. Have you seen black hill recently? Do you want these to erode down to bedrock? How do you think the northern english trails end up as eroded unstable rubble?
Those who say bikes don't cause erosion - just look at those pics
We may only have one live but the hills are there for everyone for ever.
It looked worse in the flesh than in the photos, but there is a coating of pine needles over everything that you get at this time of year so I can imagine it looked worse a few weeks ago. The 3rd from bottom photo is freshly cut and runs out straight onto the walkers path in the bottom photo, via a huge skid by the looks of it.
raddogair - the issue I'm raising isn't the idea of building new trails, its just the execution of it in this particular location, being a popular walking area with a very high level of visitors, and a lot of people who would take offence to the erosion being caused, and the impact this has on the rest of us bikers. sadly there isn't any trail healing going on here either, the original trail which was there when the current trail builders were still at momma's teat is now basically a rut. I don't the trails can really 'heal' when the ground is peat in a pine forest, there is no natural vegetation that can regrow on the trail to hold it togehter, once its gone its gone. Basically, the concern is that it looks really messy and bad, and doesn't make mountain bikers look good. Not sure what actions could end up being taken though.
Ground cover returns surprisingly fast, there are old trails up white hill that were ridden last year and almost completely gone now. It's just grass and bracken after all, grows like weeds.
I don't know if there's new guys digging up there... I think there must be, some of hte building is just totally wrong (lots of organic crap used, I saw a new jump almost dissolving in a breeze). But also there's lots of bits where there's no one defined line so it ends up like the second pic, not just damage but spread out damage. If they'd cut in a single clear line then that contains the riding more.
But I do think a bit of realism is required on this scale of damage, the actual erosion is really pretty minimal- we're talking inches here, in a manmade and fairly monocultural bit of woods, all fairly contained. The scars are ugly but they're not deep nor permanent.
