Wahoo Kickr or Tacx Neo 2T

I got one of these. In fact we got 2, to replace wheel on Wahoo Kickr and Tacx Flow Smart me and Mrs SSS had.

Both very happy with them especially at the price point. Had about 4 months now. No issues

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/lifeline-xplova-noza-s-smart-trainer/rp-prod198085

They are branded Lifeline, but made by Acer.

One of the reviewers says it's 50-60w down on power, i'm guessing you've not experienced anything like that with it ?

I like my Wahoo Kickr Core - couldn’t really see any advantage for me of going up to the fancier Kickr.

Must have had it since maybe Feb / March 2021 and ticking along ok at the moment. It’s very quiet - all I hear are the gears / chain going round. So much quieter than the wheel on trainer I had before.

It seems to respond almost immediately to increases in power - I’ve only ever used it with erg mode on trainer road.

Yeah the Core seems a nice way into the wheel off trainer and whilst i had a few issues with my first Kickr Snap, i replaced it with another and it's been spot on. But it does have a few niggles/click/creaks and when you add in the inconsistency, i'd like something a bit nicer.

@weeksy No, i find (compared to the wheel on) the power figures are MUCH more reliable (less all over the place) - which you would expect. It also correlates well with the wheel on trainers expecially for the zone training i do.

However it does say (somewhere) i think above 350-400w the figures can be less accurate. But since my FTP is around 260, and i very rarely actually go above 500w on a smart trainer. I havent found any problems.

I think if youre a demon on the bike with high output figures then something 'more expensive' with better power measurement tolerance might be better.

But for the price point im more than happy with it.

I have a t2. I use to have a tacx flux and the difference is night and day in terms of the road feel (ie, it actually feels like being on a bike, if that matters to you) and power accuracy seems decent as well compared to my power meters

If you buy one you won’t be disappointed.. not cheap however

I think if youre a demon on the bike with high output figures

I don't think i'd trouble it in that context.

Quick Google brings up https://www.evanscycles.com/saris-saris-h3-and-mp1-trainer-system-916272 for £509! 😮

Or £449 for H3 alone.

Been very happy with my one bought from Rutland last Easter, replacing my old Direto.

I’ve had the original Neo since launch, don’t know if I just got lucky but it’s been faultless. Never used the Kickr so can’t really compare. If/when I replace it I’d look seriously at the fixed bike version, only downside being the massive £££ but would be handy as it doesn’t tie up an outside bike & would be a lot easier for adjustments if more than 1 person using it. Plus no maintenance!

If you just want some kind of wheel-off trainer, would be hard to look past Zwift’s own trainer right now, don’t think you’ll beat that for value.

There are two key advantages of the full fat kickr over the core are auto calibration and the new race mode (though only if you have the direct connect accessory).

What's race mode @nixie ?

Have a look at 2nd hand prices too, Kickr V5's (i.e. the 2020-2022 version) are selling for ~£270 on facebook, ditto Direto XR's, H3's, Tacx etc. I guess it's spring and Covid's no longer a lockdown threat.

yeah used would worry me in the same way it would with an Ebike...if the thing just croaks it, the odds are you're not getting any comeback from the manufacturer

If you just want some kind of wheel-off trainer, would be hard to look past Zwift’s own trainer right now, don’t think you’ll beat that for value.

They're looking and sounding pretty good in honesty... i'm suitably impressed.

The Neo still appeals in terms of storage, the bike goes in 1 corner of the garage when not being used... the feet on the Zift and the Kickr Core etc are quite wide at the back-end, which is the bit where the door is and swings open.... I rekon the Neo would fit a bit better.

I’ve been close to buying a full fat Kickr a few times and to be honest, I haven’t ever felt it’s worth it.
The few times I’ve been on one, I don’t think the road feel is as good because you don’t have the actual physical inertia of a heavy flywheel (it’s just as heavy on the Snap as on the Kickr) AND the inertia of an entire rear wheel and tyre.

When I thought my Snap was knackered once, I ended up just buying a mk2 but as it was, it was a dodgy back wheel- so now I have a mk1 for spare and ride a mk2.

Every time I’ve tested them they’ve tracked close enough to my power meter but I can’t quite bring myself to race them without the PM 🤣

I’m probably biased but I’d buy a Kickr if I were ever to go wheel-off.

What’s race mode ?

If you have the newest version it connects to the internet directly via a cable or wi-fi rather than kickr (ant+ or bluetooth) -> computer -> internet. It's supposed to reduce lag by increasing the frequency with which it transmits data to zwift, and means if you get a dropout of the ant+/bluetooth controlling the kickr it's still sending your power data as long as there's an internet connection so your avatar keeps going.

Pretty hard to look past the Zwift hub for £449, especially given that includes a cassette.

Pretty hard to look past the Zwift hub for £449, especially given that includes a cassette.

Yeah just bought one. I was tempted the go for a 12sp cassette as his Privateer and my Slayer runs 12, but the reality is, 99% of the time it'll be my donkey bike on there and that's a 10sp, so i ordered a 10sp with it.

If reports are correct, i should see it by Weds.

What’s race mode ?

It's a brand new mode with increased data transmission rate that in theory gives better response times (i.e. responding to an attack) https://zwiftinsider.com/kickr-race-mode/

Good move on the Zwift hub.... proper value that is..

I've a Neo T2 which is awesome, but compared to the zwift hub it's hard to justify the additional expense..

DrP

Will be even cheaper if the Snap sells too 🙂

I bought a Saris H3. looked the best out of the ones around £500.

Got Saris H3 too (with MP 1 base ) after years on a Kickr. Does the job perfectly IMO. SAved additional cash with Britich cycling discount via Halfords.

Another vote for the wahoo kickr core.

I have owned mine since August 2020, after breaking my wrist on my mtb.

Got an old Scott roadbike on there and use it 5-6 days a week training in ERG mode using zwift training plans, the bike is a permanent fixture as I have no interest in road riding.

I can't fault it to be honest, not had a single issue, never been so bike fit either!

Only downside is I now rarely venture out on my mtb in winter, haven't been out since December during the last snowfall and minus temps, no motivation to head out unless a planned ride with friends.

I have essentially become a fair weather rider, but still don't regret buying it due to the fitness gains made that translate when I do make it back outside!

Have a neo 2T. It died recently. It was the 2nd one to die. First one was a warranty replacement but this time out of warranty. I got a zwift hub to replace it. It’s fine, seems to work well enough, but the power seems to read a little lower than my garmin vector power meter pedals, so I do wonder about the accuracy. Main thing for me is that without the side to side flex of the neo I find it significantly less comfortable to ride than the neo - the wee bit of sway on the neo really makes a difference. It also doesn’t feel quite as nice to pedal generally, but then again, it’s a trainer so it’s never going to feel that good, is it. It’s also a bit of a pain having to calibrate it too, even though it only takes a few seconds…i was obviously spoiled with the neo! So, I definitely prefer the neo, but it just not worth twice the price, especially as it’s broken twice. The good news is that I got the neo repaired by the turbo doctor (Google him) for a very decent price, so I’ve got that back now. The Zwift hub will be relegated (at least until the neo breaks again).

Before buying a Kickr I tried the Tacx equivalent and couldn’t tell any difference

What I like about the Kickr though is the auto calibration, small footprint (it’s very compact when being stored) and the % incline it can achieve.

and the % incline it can achieve.

I'm a flat race kind of boy, so incline doesn't really come into it for me. On most courses i'd race on you won't see more than 6-7% hills and they're likely short too.

I've asked Zwift to hold off on shipping the Hub until i get Crosshair over (probably later today) to compare his power meter with my turbo. It seems a little silly to spend £500 if mine is working OK, despite it being wheel on. If it's accurate it's accurate... but if it's not, then of course it's gone.

I found out yesterday that my last couple of races have been MILES out in terms of watts… And i do mean 40+ watts average wrong. I was riding and it felt really easy on 2 races, so much so i thought “yeah that’s more like the old form” and then yesterday after a re-calibration, the mediocrity is back again lol. But which is correct, i have no idea. The only real way to test is to get @crosshair to bring his bike over with his attached power meters and see what it clocks compared to mine…

Well that was a slightly weird one..

Firstly, not that weird but the Zwift Hub has already shipped... so can't be cancelled, but can be returned up to 30 days.. Although it says it needs to be as new, but not sure if it can be tested.
Anyway. @crosshair came over with his Diverge and some fancy pants power meter cranks... but sadly we couldn't fit his bike as it's 148*12 and i don't have 148 adaptors for the Snap. But we couldn't fit his cranks either as they're some GRX fittment which are too wide on my frame.
However we did some testing and a recalibration on both the Wahoo App and the Zwift app and it felt a lot 'better'. We used Crosshairs calibrated legs lol as he does a lot of riding by power meter and it felt about right to him. Riding along at 200w my HR was sitting at 110 or so bpm which is about where i'd have expected it to be.
So we're putting the other days ride/event as a bit of a red herring and potentially inaccurate. But i'm still not 100% convinced the other events were accurate either LOL.

One potential dicussion point is the tension on the wheel. I often (sometimes) use the Wahoo App which you'd use to do a spindown or firmware and it requires 2.5 turns to get the spindown less than 15s (which i saw was the recommendation), but looking on the Wahoo info it states 2 turns on the adjuster... So i simply don't know now which and what effect that would have.

Hence me still thinking the wheel off trainer may be better.

Hence me still thinking the wheel off trainer may be better.

It WILL be better.

But only you can decide if it's worth it over your wheel on? (Though, if taking races seriously, you WILL prefer a direct drive)

DrP

I’d take direct drive over wheel on every day of the week personally.

It’s quieter and doesn’t wear out a rear tyre (I’d really want 2 rear wheels as I ride my bike outside too).

@DrP
Go on then, what's to prefer? I'm mildly curious. I'll likely stick it on asap with a cassette I've got spare, just in case.

I'm pretty sold on the idea though as I'm not shy of a Zwift session or 3.

@joebristol

It’s quieter and doesn’t wear out a rear tyre (I’d really want 2 rear wheels as I ride my bike outside too).

Yeah my turbo bike is standalone and has only been outside 3 times in 3 years.

It's on its 2nd tyre. But I have noticed howuch it squishes now when I tension it up. I wonder if the tyre has had its day.

I'm not surprised, when you are racing under a Zwiftpower declared weight ~10Kg under your actual. 😉

I’m not surprised, when you are racing under a Zwiftpower declared weight ~10Kg under your actual

Uh oh, it's the Zwift police. Didn't know we'd met 😊

Well that was good/great service from Zwift.

I thought to myself yesterday, "should have gone with a 12sp cassette" as i have 2-3 spare 10s i could fit, but all my 12s are fitted to wheels. So i lobbed them an email to swap the order to a 12sp instead.

Reply was "item has already shipped so it's too late to change, but i've raised you an order and sent you a 12sp. Don't worry about returning the 10sp, give it to someone who needs one".

Can't argue with that can you 😀

It's due to arrive about 10.30.

I mean it depends how you define better doesn’t it 😃
I have two big fans on so any turbo I use only needs to be quieter then those 😉

With the old Triban on there full time, there’s less faff than someone putting a bike on and off a wheel-off trainer particularly as the indexing may need adjusting every time.

I’m using an old gp4000 and it’s into its third year now with no signs of wearing out.

And as mentioned- the inertia from wheel on and a heavy flywheel is loads better than just from a heavy flywheel alone.

All that said, I’ll be interested to go and see Weeksy’s new rig and see how it feels. Maybe the tech has moved on since I last tried a proper Kickr 😀

Should be installed by lunch at the latest matey.