[Closed] Vuelta, possible spoiler.

I've been enjoying it, good racing.

Yesterdays finish was ridiculous. 24% in places.

thiose boys at the front are strong as oxes

Awesome riding

The winner took 6 mins for the last km yesterday iirc 😯

I haven't caught every stage, and every stage I miss I regret. There's been some fantastic battles going on.

It's been a real battle this year. Some great attacking riding.
The last climb yesterday was pure evil! I've never seen pro riders so low geared and going so slowly. An absolute killer!!! 😈

At one point I thought that Italian guy Dario that won it was going to get off and give up, he was only 500m from the line at the time!

"Contador & Rodriguez are really duelling it out, how they get up each day & race like that is unbeleivable."

If it looks unbelievable then it usually is. There are two known and unrepentant dopers in the race, the race is in Spain where the Prime Minister supports dopers and the cycling governing body is not to interested unless forced into testing. Need anymore info to cast dought on the performance? Sorry to be negative.

[b]mt[/b]yes contador and valverde have served drugs bans and I would rather they were never allowed to race again, but rodriguez has never been implicated in drugs issues to my knowledge and has been a consistent top ten grand tour finisher for a few years now. hoping he wins and is never implicated in drugs scandals...

p.s.have to feel for froomedog - broken man after the year he has had

to complete the loop on your conspiracy mt, you should mention that the course has been laid out to favour the Spanish riders.

I still have a distant and diminishing hope that Froome has something in him... but I'd like to see Purito win - he's a class act.

I'm all for Purito, loving the way he lets Bertie mess about then just cruises alongside in that nonchalent "Still here, what's next?" kind of way.

Feel sorry for Froome, great performance in the Tour has led to unreasonable expectations in the Vuelta.

That TT route was something else, it certainly didn't favour the usual TT experts, but you couldn't say it was suited to anyone except the brave & the good in equal measure, not any particular nationality.

I too would like to see Froome make a bit of a comeback into the race, but it will be against all odds now.

Froome had no chance from the start, he's not Spanish for a start. Also he is not from a country that has a complient governing body.
Should he have had the cheek to be in the lead all the Spanish riders would have worked against him.

I'm all for Purito, loving the way he lets Bertie mess about then just cruises alongside in that nonchalent "Still here, what's next?" kind of way.

Exactly.

Contador looking increasingly worried in each evening's interview.

It's good but I'm not a massive fan of the time bonus system.

unrepentant dopers

We like dopers who say sorry whilst baking out of a room and bowing just like whats his name again? Oh yeah Millar. He soooo sowwy; pweeeeez let him wide again he say sowwy lots and lots and he be nice now he pwomise.

It was an awesomely 'unbelievable' spectacle watching Conta-epo-dor and that other bloke duelling up the mountain the other day. Looked like fun - they were doing an interval sprint session up a massive mountain climb and then casually exchanging comments sitting in the saddle in between reps. Great TV, but not entirely [i]human[/i]. 😐

Same old, same old... 🙄

alex222 - Member

"unrepentant dopers"

We like dopers who say sorry whilst baking out of a room and bowing just like whats his name again? Oh yeah Millar. He soooo sowwy; pweeeeez let him wide again he say sowwy lots and lots and he be nice now he pwomise.

Alternatively, it's easier to accept people returning after a ban if they're open about what they have done and are willing to work with the authorities to try and stop it happening again.

Alternatively, it's easier to accept people returning after a ban if they're open about what they have done and are willing to work with the authorities to try and stop it happening again.

indeed. so presumably having banged on about the 'Omerta' and so on for months and months now, Millar is taking a lead role in commenting on Lance, and the remaining overseers of that period (your Riis's Bruneels and so on) and indeed our recent loss of Mr Schleck...

Isn't he?

oh no hang on, he now has his gob firmly shut, as he has a ride for the time being, and could do without rocking the boat.

i'm sorry but i really don't buy the repentant bit. repentance is stopping what you are doing, putting your hands up, and trying to live a better life.

not getting busted for doping, only at that point stopping doping, and writing a book about what a rotter you've been, only to slip (relatively) quietly back into the pro (and apparently doped up to the hilt) peleton...

Yeah it's been a great Vuelta so far this year. In a way it's good to see Froome cracking as should allay some of the doping suspicion (mostly coming out of France & Spain). Would be nice to see Sky in a position to drive things on in the mountains to though as although it's exciting the Saxo Bank high tempo followed by Contador attacking and Purito responding and Valverde staying in touch was getting a little repetitive. It's also good to see Contador's attacks not being so ridiculously strong & sustained (even if he'd say that's due to lack of race conditioning rather than lack of drugs).
Only really one big test left now and unless Purito gets sick I can't see him cracking now, still tense enough to make it worth watching though.

It's good but I'm not a massive fan of the time bonus system.

I've enjoyed the racing, and the last uphill finish was great. But I have to agree that the time bonus does not for a good outcome make. Surely the fastest man should win overall? See last year's result. They've reduced them this year, possibly again next?

On an unrelated note: The Tour of Britain will be climbing some nice steep sections across Dartmoor. 20-25% out of Dartmeet 😈

tracknicko - Member
so presumably having banged on about the 'Omerta' and so on for months and months now, Millar is taking a lead role in commenting on Lance

Commenting on the FDA investigation last year:

[b]“I can’t say definitively if Lance doped or not,” he added. “Yes, there are all the stories and rumours but I certainly never saw him dope with my own eyes.[/b]

“If he did dope, after all he has said and done, it would be unforgivable. His performances on the Tour were extraordinary but he is unlike anybody you will ever meet. He is a force of nature.

“But I have always thought that he could have done more against doping. He was in a position to make a difference and to help his sport but I never saw any evidence of that."

What more can he add to that now? Unless he's been in a priviledged position and has seen the evidence against LA?

[i]Millar is taking a lead role in commenting on Lance, and the remaining overseers of that period (your Riis's Bruneels and so on) and indeed our recent loss of Mr Schleck...

Isn't he?

oh no hang on, he now has his gob firmly shut, as he has a ride for the time being, and could do without rocking the boat. [/i]

Not entirely correct

He's stated...

[i]And I do have an opinion on Lance that I'll talk/write about it in the near future, like everybody I'm trying to digest it fully.
It's so big that I can't simply respond immediately, especially on Twitter, I need a lot more than 140 characters.[/i]

He's also criticised Liggett for his interview. [i]"For me he is not the "Voice of Cycling".[/i]

i'm sorry but i really don't buy the repentant bit. repentance is stopping what you are doing, putting your hands up, and trying to live a better life

Which is exactly what he did. Admitted it, gave evidence to the French police, did his suspension and came back starting a team with an explicit anti-doping policy. Jeez what more could he have done? Given up cycling? Would that have made you happy?

Millar's behaviour has been completely different to other drugs cheats like Vinokourov, Valverde and steak-boy who refuse to admit anything, refuse to discuss it and presumably continue to dope once they return from suspension if they think they can get away with it.

Well the story seems to be more about systematic abuse of the rider/governing body relationship. I.e. the position of the UCI and possible buyouts from doped teams etc... plus the remaining DS' in the squads these days...

in terms of the 'with my own eyes' bit... given what Hamilton is about to publish (today) it would seem quite odd if people in the pro peleton didn't know more.

ergo i expect he (and others) do know more, but is keeping (relatively) quiet.

i just think that for an apparently massive force in the anti doping side of things, and such a repentant soul, using lines such as:

I certainly never saw him dope with my own eyes,

and...

His performances on the Tour were extraordinary but he is unlike anybody you will ever meet. He is a force of nature.

seem a bit of a cop out.

look i'm sorry but all this reads like:

'poor english lad forced into doping by horrible team pressures, comes back, clean as a whistle and fights again'

and

'dirty foreigners doped up to the eyeballs, back in the peleton and no doubt doping again'

He's stated...

And I do have an opinion on Lance that I'll talk/write about it in the near future, like everybody I'm trying to digest it fully.
It's so big that I can't simply respond immediately, especially on Twitter, I need a lot more than 140 characters.

that's basically 'no comment' in my book.

He's also criticised Liggett for his interview. "For me he is not the "Voice of Cycling".

not sure that's much of a statement.

Which is exactly what he did. Admitted it, gave evidence to the French police, did his suspension and came back starting a team with an explicit anti-doping policy. Jeez what more could he have done? Given up cycling? Would that have made you happy?

pretty sure he got busted? rather than wandering in to the police station all hands up...

also not sure he started an anti doping team? he first came back to a (dirty cheating - probably) spanish team.

then joined slipstream with J Vaughters, the ex doper from the Lance era...

It's exciting for sure but a bit of a one trick "finish up the steepest hill we can find" pony - I'd prefer a bit more balance.

no_eyed_deer - Member

It was an awesomely 'unbelievable' spectacle watching Conta-epo-dor and that other bloke duelling up the mountain the other day. Looked like fun - they were doing an interval sprint session up a massive mountain climb and then casually exchanging comments sitting in the saddle in between reps. Great TV, but not entirely human.

Same old, same old...

Same old same old...whining about former dopers?

Any athlete in front must be on drugs?

🙄

tracknicko - Member
i just think that for an apparently massive force in the anti doping side of things, and such a repentant soul, using lines such as:

I certainly never saw him dope with my own eyes,

and...

His performances on the Tour were extraordinary but he is unlike anybody you will ever meet. He is a force of nature.

seem a bit of a cop out.

Clutching at straws a bit aren't you?

So are you saying he's lying? And you left off a few bits in those quotes:

"[b]If he did dope, after all he has said and done, it would be unforgivable.[/b] His performances on the Tour were extraordinary but he is unlike anybody you will ever meet. He is a force of nature."

[b]“But I have always thought that he could have done more against doping. He was in a position to make a difference and to help his sport but I never saw any evidence of that."[/b]

yeh but he's winning AND foreign. DEFINITELY on drugs.

Clutching at straws a bit aren't you?

So are you saying he's lying? And you left off a few bits in those quotes:

"If he did dope, after all he has said and done, it would be unforgivable. His performances on the Tour were extraordinary but he is unlike anybody you will ever meet. He is a force of nature."

“But I have always thought that he could have done more against doping. He was in a position to make a difference and to help his sport but I never saw any evidence of that."

i don't understand your point? how am i clutching at straws?

i left out those bits and to be frank they're even more wooly than the bits i did quote...

im not saying he's lying. im saying if he is vehemently anti doping and working hard to eradicate it in all its forms, saying those things above isn't really enough... is it?

He's stated...

And I do have an opinion on Lance that I'll talk/write about it in the near future, like everybody I'm trying to [s]digest it fully[/s] compile enough material to write another book so that my retirement is that bit more comfortable.

By the way I don't think he shouldn't write a book. Every one wants money to retire. I just wish people would stop looking through rose tinted glasses at why he is writing books and returning to cycling. He is not trying to set things straight he is feathering his on nest.

Which is exactly what he did. Admitted it, gave evidence to the French police, did his suspension and came back starting a team with an explicit anti-doping policy

So they say they explicitly don't dope. I am trying to think of some other teams that 'explicitly didn't dope' in the past. I just can't think of them off the top of my head it is difficult to remember the names of one team in particular and indeed one rider in particular that explicitly didn't dope.

Back on track the Vuelta is possibly the most disgustingly awesome road race ever. Hearts exploding from chests kind of awesome.

pretty sure he got busted? rather than wandering in to the police station all hands up...

also not sure he started an anti doping team? he first came back to a (dirty cheating - probably) spanish team.

then joined slipstream with J Vaughters, the ex doper from the Lance era

Sure he was arrested then complied fully- complied so fully that the French judge in the case against the Cofidis dopers questioned why Millar should even be in court given the amount of co-operation he'd given.

Yes he came back briefly with Saunier Duval and yes he had suspicions some of their riders were doping, however it was the only team that would have him.

He was a key part in building the Garmin team and has a stake in it. I think their approach in being prepared to work with ex-dopers is probably a bit more realistic than say Sky's position and gives riders who's doped some hope of rehabilitaiton if they want to take it.

Back on track the Vuelta is possibly the most disgustingly awesome road race ever. Hearts exploding from chests kind of awesome.

This one or are they all like this?

I might just be a roadie at heart. 🙂

Millar's behaviour has been completely different to other drugs cheats like Vinokourov, Valverde and steak-boy who refuse to admit anything, refuse to discuss it and presumably continue to dope once they return from suspension if they think they can get away with it.

THIS

'poor english lad forced into doping by horrible team pressures, comes back, clean as a whistle and fights again'

He has changed nationality now has he? English and British are not interchangeable terms but your attention to detail is as good as your analysis

i left out those bits and to be frank they're even more wooly than the bits i did quote...

But I have always thought that he could have done more against doping. He was in a position to make a difference and to help his sport but I never saw any evidence of that."

complied so fully that the French judge in the case against the Cofidis dopers questioned why Millar should even be in court given the amount of co-operation he'd given.

So he grassed every one up to reduce his own punishment. Kudos indeed. What a brave brave hero of the sport.

Ok i'm obviously not getting anywhere here.

English and British are not interchangeable terms but your attention to detail is as good as your analysis

slow hand clap for that one. thanks. a slip of the tongue if you will, and now my analysis is worthless? brilliant.

and again.

I have always thought that he could have done more against doping.

is NOT a strong anti-doping outburst, or any specific comment on the recent Lance developments, the DS's still in the sport, the silence of every other current pro, or anything else... which is what i was originally referring to.

Would you like to start a thread about drugs in cycling or just bore me to death with your own personal opinions on it here?

apologies for having an opinion on a discussion forum.

in the event of you actually starting to die, you could always stop reading.

Or you could have that discussion on a thread relating to it?

Personally I am all for drugs, my personal favourite was ecstasy but I am fairly certain it did not help my performance, albeit perhaps it did enhance my desire to dance a lot and cop off with weird women.

Tinsy in fairness it was MT who came along and wailed on the Vuelta calling Rodriguez, Valverde and Contador Doping cheats and saying it is a crap race because the Spaniards do nothing about dopers. So really you have him to thank for hijacking your thread. It is a big subject at the moment and subsequently I and others have had to put their ores in as it is such a polarising subject. Sorry.

Personally I am all for drugs, my personal favourite was ecstasy but I am fairly certain it did not help my performance, albeit perhaps it did enhance my desire to dance a lot and cop off with weird women.

I agree.

No worries, I was not trying to single anyone out.

Drugs in cycling has been a hot topic for as long as I can remember.

Have you read the book on Tom Simpson?

So he grassed every one up to reduce his own punishment.

He complied fully and as a result the authorities didn't come down as hard on him as they otherwise would have done.

What would you rather he did? The usual clamming-up "no comment" stuff that most cyclists prefer? You call it "grassing up", I call it "cooperation", either way I'm glad he did it

an awful lot of people on stw seem to tell people what drugs they've taken at every given opportunity-its always struck me as a little odd that.

Vuelta has been ace though! (although in 5 years we'll probably look back at it as 'the bad old days of doping'!)

slow hand clap for that one. thanks. a slip of the tongue if you will, and now my analysis is worthless? brilliant.

apologies for having an opinion on a discussion forum.

No problem with you having an opinion just with you having the wrong one 😉

in the event of you actually starting to die, you could always stop reading

Ah bless you I am really startng to warm to you now 🙄

Right if this is how it is I may as well learn something without the aid of google.

What had Contador done & how long was his recent ban?

an awful lot of people on stw seem to tell people what drugs they've taken at every given opportunity-its always struck me as a little odd that.

Right on.. this Vuelta does indeed apeal to the racer in me.

my general opinion on drugs (ectasy aside) is that they might as well let them crack on with it.

IF they are all on drugs in this tour then BRING IT ON. as this race has been properly spectacular.

absolutely stunning racing every day, berty knocking out 10 - 15 attacks a day is just staggering to watch, and a perfect antidote to the slightly dull (although resultswise perfect) TDF

the only thing i can't get my head round doping wise (as you may have gathered above) is why we defend some characters that are guilty, whilst remaining sceptical/distrustful/disrespectful towards others.

Contador had a steak. He then tested positive for a banned substance (clenbuterol).

Think he got 2 yrs

my general opinion on drugs (ectasy aside) is that they might as well let them crack on with it.

Who'll be the one to teach kids to inject themselves with EPO to ensure they make it through the amateur ranks?

From what event was it he tested positive?

Glad you edited that I thought for a minute it had turned him into a heathen!! 🙂

hang on a second, we're all almost starting to get along!

i *think* (cant be arsed to google) that berty was done as his excuse/explanation of 'contaminated meat' wasnt good enough for the authorities when finding clenbuterol (agent for leaning the body) in his system.

2 years. but retrospective, so think he basically took about 8 months out?

interestingly... Berty et al (actually might have been during his ban, in which case just berty's team) stayed at the same 'contaminated meat' hotel this year...

woulda thought it would be one to avoid after a 2 year ban 😉

the only thing i can't get my head round doping wise (as you may have gathered above) is why we defend some characters that are guilty, whilst remaining sceptical/distrustful/disrespectful towards others.

Perhaps [ not a dig] as you would not object to fully doped races, you care less about whether they admit it and what they do afterwards.
Most do care how the cheat reacts.

FWIW Contador alleged beef - could not prove he had bought it let alone eaten it and his blood also had plasticers [ not admissable] whihc show it was transfusion related

Ashenden also said his biological passport showed clear signs of systematic doping iirc.
I was more "hurt" by this than LA as his style is nice to watch and it was shame to see him as dirty

I am slowly being drawn into roadie world. I'll be going back to Norfolk for the ToB this weekend. Been reading a lot of books and doing roads miles as the MTB is still in storage.

Now I've done some reading and ridden with some ex-team types, I get a lot more out of watching the racing and riding the road.

Returning off-topic. Iirc Millar is on the WADA athlete committee, part owns Garmin Slipstream a staunch anti-doping team and constantly goes on about racing clean to the point of boredom and predictability in any interview he does. He just can't hold it back. I don't think you can get anymore anti-doping than that. Millar served the full mandatory suspension and was not given a lighter sentence for compliance with the investigating authorities, although he did appeal for a sentence reduction.
His book was written several years ago and this whole LA thing had yet to flare up. IMHO, to even say what he said to LA, to document it and then to publish it was pretty strong stuff given when it was written.
Yes. There is a squeaky cleaness to DM as a post-doper and this is not to some people's likings who believe athletes should be perfect and never make mistakes but it's about being human.

Should the bans not be lifelong?

Transfusion? I have heard of this popping in an extra pint taken from when your biorythm's were in perfect alignment, but FFS its a bit much isnt it? Would they really do that?

Excuse my spelling.

"Berty" was done because there is no excuse for clenbuterol in the rules. The Spanish Federation didn't follow those rules and allowed hm off before CAS gave a ruling that he should be banned.

Supposedly, the steak came from Spain via his brother in law who'd come to visit him, hence the rest of the team didn't eat it.

As to why we shouldn't turn a blind eye to doping, I would say that it's because it's not healthy for mind or body to be cheating. If my son ever got into pro cycling, I wouldn't want him to have to dope. As such, I extend the same view to other peoples' sons.

Also, I can't get excited about doped sport. It's like watching Big Brother - eg fake real life.

As to Millar, the reason I would say that he is a positive for cycling is that he's stating loudly that he doped and that it was wrong, lazy and not actually necessary now as he and other clean riders are winning. That for me is more important to riders coming through the ranks than anything else.

Oh and ref the Vuelta, great race. I want to believe it's clean but struggle to given Contador's involvement. On the positive he's not winning whereas he'd have walked it in the past so maybe he's playing fair but then again, he's only just back to racing so isn't on top form.

Perhaps [ not a dig] as you would not object to fully doped races, you care less about whether they admit it and what they do afterwards.
Most do care how the cheat reacts.

no that's cool, i don't take that as a dig, and probably agree with you.

i think for me that its so rife, and the line between 'doping' and 'keeping the athletes in tip top shape' is SO fine that i have general distrust for them all in some respects.

that said. i have massive respect for even the most smacked-off-his-tits of cyclists. as no matter how much EPO you are banging, doing 5 or 6 cols in a day, at an average of 25-30mph is ****ing badass!

tinsy - Member
Should the bans not be lifelong?

there's an argument for it but tbh I don't think it'd actually stop people doping. Better to ban them and more importantly have an impact to the team. That may be slightly tough on some teams were an individual chooses to dope but history shows us that at best, teams ignored the doping that they knew was happening, at worst and probably more the norm, were fully complicit. The teams allowed doping to happen. If doping gave a team a suspension (for x races say) then I'll bet they'd be much more careful on who they hired and on keeping tabs on them.

and appearing to reform and change

So long as you appear to reform your alright by us.

the only thing i can't get my head round doping wise (as you may have gathered above) is why we defend some characters that are guilty, whilst remaining sceptical/distrustful/disrespectful towards others.

In the case of Millar, you just need to look at his actions since he returned to cycling. The work with Slipstream and the WADA Athletes Committee. Genuinely believe he wants to clean things up so that people coming into the sport aren't faced with the same dilemma.

Other's get busted and come up with some bull about a dodgy steak.

To criticise cyclists for not naming names and pointing the finger while still involved in the sport is harsh. Good on those who do, but they do so knowing they're unlikely to work in the sport again, let alone win anything.

Looking at those who have named names. They tend to get vilified, marginalised and ignored by the sports governing bodies (see recent article by [url= http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/jorg-jaksche-doping-hypocrisy-and-a-dog-called-bella ]Jorg Jaksche[/url] as an example.) Maybe the recent example set by USADA will being to encourage people to name names in future. I do hope so as there are many who many suspect should not be involved in professional cycling.

Blood transfusions tied to biorhythm cycles?
Nope. It's the tried and trusted method of training at altitude and then withdrawing the blood to be stored and used at a later date (ie. When U R shagged).

Clubber I would think taking away a livelyhood & all those years of training & denial up the spout would indeed make individual's think twice about doping surely?

But yes hitting the teams, would hit the sponsors & hit them financially.

tinsy - Member
Should the bans not be lifelong?

Lifelong ban for a second positive I reckon.

Although there are cases of people making mistakes, probably the most famous is that chap who was using cold remedies in one country, bought the same brand in another country not realising that over there it contained a banned substance. Should that scenario result in a lifelong ban?

[i]constantly goes on about racing clean to the point of boredom and predictability in any interview he does[/i]

My thoughts too. It was great to see him take a stage on the TdF, but even before he had fully caught his breath, he was going on about doing it [i]clean[/i]. I suppose he may never be able to fully deal with what he had done. I've read the book too. The point where his team raced him until he broke. Wasn't missed by me and I could easily see how it happened and for what reasons. Don't forget also, that he was financially ruined too as well as being banned.

[i]but it's about being human[/i]
Yeap !.

[i]Should the bans not be lifelong?[/i]
Is that one or two cans of worms sir ?.

[i]Transfusion? I have heard of this popping in an extra pint taken from when your biorythm's were in perfect alignment, but FFS its a bit much isnt it? Would they really do that? [/i]
You're team leader, being paid millions to win. Yeap, with enough pressure, some riders will do, almost anything. It would seem. Not just specific to cycling either. Look at athletics.

I may get that Tyler Hamilton book, [i]the secret race[/i]. But it would have to be the US version. Apparently the UK book is being re-written as I type.
🙁

Back on track...

Another uphill finish today I am hoping to see another duel between Contador & Purito. (getting right into it now, using nick names & everything, just hope I got the right one!)

Oh & as for off topic, nice to everyone has chilled out a bit with each other, even seems to be some agreement 😯

tinsy - Member
Clubber I would think taking away a livelyhood & all those years of training & denial up the spout would indeed make individual's think twice about doping surely?

Do death sentences work? If a rider thinks that he won't get caught or that he has to dope to be successful, many will (and clearly did) cheat.

In Europe, the top riders will start fairly young (teens) and work up through the ranks of clubs, semi-pro to a pro contract. Most are driven and once they learn that 'you have to dope to win, it's our secret' either quit or accept and dope. It's the culture that's the problem, not the riders as such - that's just the symptom - and the culture is driven by the teams and the UCI.

That's why riders like Millar going on to the point of boredom about being clean is important - it shows that you don't have to dope and it also breaks the Omerta that's a massive part of the problem. Doping will never be stopped but if it's talked about and more to the point made clear that it's not acceptable (and in private, not just talking to the press) then that's where things will get better.

That's why riders like Millar going on to the point of boredom about being clean is important

And clean he is surely. He said so. Why would he lie?

Do death sentences work?

It works for me, there are lots of things I would like to do but don't as I would not like the punishment. However I do have all the equipment should I decide to risk it one day. 😉

think today might be quiet with the favourites. 5% or so at the end will feel like downhill compared to the last few days!

It's possible of course. I don't think so but it is clearly something that should be considered.

My take is simply that he rides for a team founded by another ex-doper who wanted to turn things round. I haven't yet seen anything to make me doubt that (and in fact as more comes out about USPS, I believe it more) so on balance I believe Millar.

think today might be quiet with the favourites. 5% or so at the end will feel like downhill compared to the last few days!

And for a mere 17km. Yeah I reckon it is a day for the rouleurs.

[i]However I do have all the equipment should I decide to risk it one day[/i]

May be, but ask yourself. Just how much havoc can you create, armed with both a hole punch AND a stapler....
😉

glitchy bump

gilbert is my pick for today*

*maybe partially influenced by a slight man crush.

gilbert is my pick for today

So long as he says sorry for something first*. The naughty Belgian.**

*Acts of contrition, admitiing the offence, and appearing to reform and change alter how many people react to cheats

**maybe partially influenced by a slight man crush

no doping on his record. just pure manliness.

no doping on his record. just pure manliness.

Yes but has he explicitly said that he doesn't dope? If not he should just appologise in advance because he is no doubt a

dirty foreigner[s]s[/s] doped up to the eyeballs

May be, but ask yourself. Just how much havoc can you create, armed with both a hole punch AND a stapler....

alex, you appear to be deliberately bating everyone, the arguing appears to have stopped, despite your best efforts.

I'm not deliberately trying to bate anyone actually.

Believe it or not.

Did anyone find a way I can watch the Vuelta online, for free ?.

I managed to catch the TdF on itv4.

alex222 - Member
And clean he is surely. He said so. Why would he lie?