What are the advantages or disadvantages of both systems? I tend not to get too much out of a test ride plus I've never had a full suss before, both look similar geometry.
I'd be moving the parts over from my Whyte 909, probably buying the frame second hand so doubt I'd get the SC lifetime warranty.
The exact pivot locations and the resulting kinematics matters far more than the suspension arrangement. But looking at the graphs for the Stumpy ST and the old 5010s and where the pivots are on the current 5010, I’d expect the 5010 to pedal a bit better and squat more under braking (this does stiffen the suspension but I prefer this). Kickback is probably similar as is the somewhat progressive leverage rate.
Both will ride well, both will be fun 🙂 Which one is a better colour 😉
The exact pivot locations and the resulting kinematics matters far more than the suspension arrangement.
How do I look into this kind of thing, I'm not particularly mechanically minded.
Both will ride well, both will be fun 🙂 Which one is a better colour 😉
I've done this in the past!!
How do I look into this kind of thing, I’m not particularly mechanically minded.
Which to be honest probably goes with what I said, if you find out one have more enduroboing but a bit less gnarness while the other has extra radticks will it make much difference to you 🙂
I'm leaning towards the more xc/trail of the two. Plus the least servicing.
Came from a Whyte 909 to a V3 5010 and I’m loving it. It’s my first full sus though so I don’t have much to compare it to...
If you’re really bothered about servicing get a new 5010 frame and the bike shop will change the bearings for free for you - mine does.
Of those two, my personal preference is the Horst Link on the Specialized. I like the fully active nature and I'm happy to take a bit more bob on climbs.
What I tend to notice with VPP and I don't like about it is the way it stiffens under pedalling load. I find this makes it feel like it hesitates and resists rolling up over square rock edges on technical climbs.
But there's a lot of happy VPP riders out there. It's all very personal.
Onzadog +1.
Same with any suspension design that stiffens under pedalling from chain tension. Never been a fan of VPP for this exact reason. Great for it to feel taut and responsive for acceleration and on smooth climbs, less so in techy feature rich climbs, where I'll take active and a bit soft feeling over a reduction in traction and reduced composure for the sake of 'perkiness'.
Both brands are easy to get hold of to demo. Do that, pick which one you prefer, don’t stress about why you prefer it.
Also note that while the bearings are free for SC, not all shops fit them for free.
I find this makes it feel like it hesitates and resists rolling up over square rock edges on technical climbs.
That is something that happens to me, perhaps I just need to pedal harder.
Both brands are easy to get hold of to demo. Do that, pick which one you prefer, don’t stress about why you prefer it.
I will, but a few days demo won't teach me a huge deal unless I hate one.
Both are great bikes, my mate has the camber which is effectively the old stumpy st, he loves it,ive riden it a few times and it felt composed and a great bike .
I’ve got a mk2 5010 and it’s brilliant, for me it climbs fast, gets up and over rooty tree knots with ease, that on older bikes I just could not get over and pedals away like a dream, when downhill and flowing it handles everything with ease.
I’m hiring a bronson at glentress in a few weeks times just to see what the hype is,
I’d recommended test riding one, will all your old components fit, ie boost wheels, seatposts, etc
if you like the feel of both get the one you can get the best VFM for the components, I’d guess the stumpy
Ps. I hate bikes that bob uphill I had a canyon spectral 2016 or17 which was a trail bike winner , I climbed like poo
So the horst link bike will generally bob more. the vpp will be better on smoother stuff while the horst will be better on bumpier stuff (generally)
I need to use the shock in trail mode for horst link bikes as the difference it makes is substantial. less so on the vpp.
I would pick the one you like the look of most.
(i have a stumpy and i love it)
I will, but a few days demo won’t teach me a huge deal unless I hate one.
It will reach you a lot more than internet advice. Neither is better than the other, they’re different. Try both, then flip a coin, how you react to the result should tell you which to get.
I have 4 different suspension designs (FSR, DW, VPP and HSP) in my current bikes. They are different, not better/worse.
check out ltmracing17 on ebay, felix is a spanish based SC authorised dealer, i got a chameleon off him last year for £1100, he has the alu 5010mk2 frame for £850 or carbon for £1500, warranty setup fine with SC
personally i'd be looking at the mk3 cc frame with piggyback shock for £2k that a guy is selling [if you can get the warranty on it].
ps. as tom says, they just feel different had 20 mins on a mates dwlink, just felt weird to me, like i was stuck to the ground in deep mud peddling away (but i was moving quick).. but he can certainly ride it
I need to use the shock in trail mode for horst link bikes as the difference it makes is substantial. less so on the vpp.
This, I have a hightower and never really feel the need to have the shock in anything other than fully open. It might get flicked to trail for long road climbs but thats about it.
I tried 3 different suspension platforms recently when demoing (single pivot, four bar & vpp style).
The vpp was the best of the bunch climbing wise. What some feel as firming up the suspension, to me dept like pushing the rear wheel into the ground for more grip.
As said earlier though, it is the implementation that makes the difference as you can tailor anti-squat, anti-rise etc in each to get the type of ride wanted, though there are always compromises.
In my experience, it depends on the specific bikes, and with these two bikes, I think it’d really be worth trying to demo them - or at least the Stumpy ST. Reason why I say this is because yesterday, I did back to back test rides of my Spesh Camber Evo Carbon (predecessor of Stumpy ST) and the Santa Cruz equivalent - Tallboy CC carbon, VPP3.
For info, I’ve owned two previous SC VPP2 bikes, and at least 3 Spesh Horst link bikes, so I’m not prejudiced either way. I’d say, in general, the VPPs are less active under pedalling, and the harder gear you push, the firmer they feel. The downside of this is that you can get kickback though the pedals ascending on rougher ground, so the more active Horst link bikes can go rough climbs with a lot less effort.
Yesterdays test ride was a real eye opener, as my Camber felt a lot perkier pedalling everywhere compared to the Tallboy. Given my previous experience of VPP and reviews of the Tallboy 3, I was a bit surprised. Suspension was properly set up and the bikes were on similar spec wheels and the same tyres. However, on the same long draggy fireroad ascent, the Camber felt a lot perkier. The TB3 is the second VPP3 bike that I’ve demoed that has had this slightly dead feel. To me, if feels like SC have maybe reduced the effect of chain tension in VPP3 to give it better small bump compliance and braking grip than VPP2, but it’s taken some of the immediacy away.
The Camber Evo is an odd one, as it’s the least typical Horst Link/FSR bike I’ve ever ridden. I sure it’s down to shock tune, as my OH used to have the alloy version of the bike in the same size, but with basic shock - and that used to bob around and blow through its travel like nobody’s - it was a real drag on fireroad type climbs. This is why a demo ride is so important.
