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There's some bloke on EBay trying to figure out why he's selling so many golf clamps lately.
The AWK mod, is this.
http://www.fahrrad-fahrwerk.de/awk/
It gives you a similar three chamber air setup to the Ohlins forks and the Manitou IRT, similar systems are also found on air motocross forks.
Coil is still the best way for MTB, due to the lightness of the bikes. A coil added all of 170 grams to my Pike. Not a lot in the scheme of things.
tbf in the ride off a few kerbs test the lufftkappe does give that coil like feel at the start of travel, even with a bit more PSI
and ive been riding my z150 rc2 bombers to the station all week, so im in a coil zone at the moment
Ive always liked my pikes but i had some rc3ti 44s that were just perfect grip wise, but always wanted a heavier spring as they were a bit divey for me even with air preload
anyway pleased so far, looking forward to a proper test and fettle
Ive got an Evo can for my rear shock coming this week, wondering if I shouldve stumped up extra for the vorsprung corset!
Fitted mine last night, I'm not very mechanically minded, but I followed the RS instructions to the point where the Vosprung video takes over and it wasn't too bad. The circlip is always a proper PITA for me, but I managed it single handedly in the end.
Did I mention I'm not very mechanically minded? Anyway, I hadn't realised the £2 golf clamp also required a vice, I was just trying to hold it - no bueno. Much swearing later and I managed it with a combination of the Wife's turbo hair-drier, leaving it sitting in boiling water and luck.
I would have liked to have the damper out and service that, my forks are Yaris so I don't need any fancy tools and it's meant to be straight forward but I just ran out of time.
Forks feel super plush, but lower service and I guess fresh seals and grease on the air side will do that. I'm looking forward to a test ride tomorrow.
Quite pleased, bit plusher, but holds up better under braking,
as P-Jay says, post service forks always feel nice but definitely a bit something extra, might try with a token and less pressure and see how it goes
I'm quite happy with mine. Front is now more balanced with the coil on the rear, not going to bother with the damping tune now.
Took mine around the diverted Cwmcarn trail today, I've gone from 3 tokens to 1 and up about 10% air pressure.
It's plusher over small rocks and roots etc, but at the same time far better on bigger hits, it's best on hard breaking you can really brake late and turn without the fork diving.
Like Fox did with their air-can design I can see RS pinching the idea for their forks soon enough.
Well got some riding in and I'm very pleased bit less pressure extra 2 clicks of compression found i need much less rebound too
fork felt spot on at Black , mountain cycle centre uplift day.
Borrowed a Shockwizz and first ride is telling me I've set it up 100% balanced? already I'm no suspension pro, but i think the luftkappe is well worth it.
I've ordered a novyparts kit for the aids on Lewis's ripcord. So will see how that affects his fork.
I've not done enough big hits to see how he luftkappe affects them but I'm running the same pressure as before so getting a bit more sag
Agreed p-jay rockshox next pike will have bigger -ve chamber just like the luftkappe, I'm sure
really surprised how much difference it made, i had a twiddle at BMCC and needed a bit more compression and kept backing down the rebound, didn't realise till yesterday when i counter the clicks I've gone from 66% to 33% of my range, surprised that a cm2? of -ve chamber makes such a difference, i think the damping circuit is having to work much less now, Poah is right- makes the pike damping spot on, no need to tune
Now imagine a coil, with even less breakaway force 😛 but yeah the difference between my coil Pike and my dads Lyrik in terms of grip and support was pretty big. So if the luftkappe improves on the Lyrik then its going to be a huge upgrade over the standard Pike....as was my coil conversion....which was pretty ridiculous...I couldnt go back to a standard Pike now.
Really looking forward to getting my DHX2 installed on the rear to get the Reign feeling more balanced in terms of performance now.
The FAST damping tune did things that the coil conversion didn't though, so I wouldnt write off a damping tune totally. It made the fork a fair bit livelier, more reactive to successive hits and more supportive - as well as giving me finer damping adjustments to LSC and HSC. Personally, I have yet to ride a better fork now in the 20 years Ive been riding - it used to be wooden, sticky, dangerously lacking grip in the wet and harsh through rock gardens...compared to a set of 36 Vans....pretty much nothing to write home about.
the standard pike was no match for my coil IL, it really was disproportionate front and rear. The luftkappe makes such a difference that its a lot more balanced. The fact I can't identify any weakness in my current set up suggests that either my pike is set up as best as I can get it or I still don't have a clue lol. I feel the 240 for the fast damper would just be a waste. This of course is my bike, my trails and my skill level. I would like to try what a coil conversion would be like but can't justify money for it.
Don't bother if you're happy with the fork, it was little details as well that made me happy - for example with the standard damper, the LSC adjuster changes things very little throughout the range and then dramatically alters the damping towards the end of the closed side. You get 24 clicks of LSC adjustment with the fast mod, instead of 16 - and the change between each click is much much more linear throughout the range. The HSC adjuster is the same, lots of very linear clicks - and it really affects the midstroke and deep stroke performance. This all means that you can just get it that little bit closer to your idea of the perfect balance. I've also found that since the mod, I haven't had one blown damper - before I'd had three in 6 months, now I've had 8 months of spotless performance, although I've also updated the fork with the 2016 Lyrik seal head.
It's not for everyone, it's expensive yes - but it's more palatable given the crazy prices of Fox 36s and the fact that the cost includes a service. I would say that if you move to a coil, the ability to adjust high speed compression is even more of an asset as you lose the ability to adjust bottom out resistance.
I don't run any LSC
Are you quite light poah?
[quote=poah ]I don't run any LSC
I'm almost running none as well, will try none tomorrow
Tom_W1987 - MemberAre you quite light poah?
about 80kg kitted up I think.
You see, I'm 80KG and my issue with the Pike was that - no LSC = too divey, decent amount of LSC = spikey and lacked traction and the settings inbetween fully open and 5 from full closed made stuff all difference - if you notice a difference between a couple of clicks from full open and open - you're noticing a placebo I reckon.
With the FAST tune, I'm running what feels like 5 from full closed on a standard setup - and I get no harsh feedback - it's sodding great.
was intrigued by the fast tune
but the luftkappe upgrade 60 quid + 2 quid ebay golf clamp is a bargain considering how much difference it makes, not gonna bother now
im 90kg running 2 clicks of compression now and its spot on
the evol upgrade on the rear is another story............
for the trails I'm running at the moment, 30% sag is fine. If I'm going to do steeper stuff I'll add more air. with the standard pike I found LSC just ruined the small bump with limited effect on brake dive. This was particularly evident at FW WC track. With more air it was a lot more stable and had more small bump sensitivity compared to adding LSC.
I was running 70psi before the luftkappe but no idea of sag, I just added the same amount of pressure when I fitted it.
This is what FAST say and it ties in with my experience....
However, whilst it outperforms it predecessor it still has flaws. At Fast Suspension we undertook rigorous testing on this product and our observations were:-
1. The low speed compression range is limited as: of the 15 positions available, only the first 5 (from the completely closed position) have any impact. After these first 5 positions very little actually changes.
2. The recovery of the fork in the transition between compression and rebound is not adequate due to the compression piston and check design.
3. The ports of compression piston are enormous and regardless of the valve specification the compression characteristic will only vary marginally.
I reckon by bumping the pressure up, you were helping the fork react better to successive hits Poah. Running 30 percent sag is going to cause the fork to be a bit slower than it could be to react I recon, combined with bumping the damping up then yeah...it'll get spikier feeling.
I run 20-22 percent of sag.
I run quite slow rebound although I couldn't tell you how many clicks.
The increase in pressure was to counter brake dive on the steep sections of the trails at fort William.
I'm note sure soft compression and slow rebound plays well together, especially if you're running that much sag. Different manufacturers have different ways of holding the suspension up so that it can react to successive hits more easily, Ohlins supposedly relies more on compression from what I've been told - where as others rely on rebound to hold the fork up high. So open compression, fast rebound - or heavier compression and slower rebound.
If neither can do that job, then you're running the worst possible setup - as neither are keeping the fork riding in it's optimal position.
I'm not sure that I am right, but I reckon it's worth having a play with your setup.
my set up fine for what I ride. I'll maybe try one or two clicks faster rebound to see the difference but I ride a lot of rooty rocky trails so fast rebound isn't great. personal preference though.
1. The low speed compression range is limited as: of the 15 positions available, only the first 5 (from the completely closed position) have any impact. After these first 5 positions very little actually changes.
have to say I agree totally I was always able to feel a difference from 0-5 clicks but after that it was lockout or nowt!
(ive gone from 4 - 2 with the vorsprung)
Lockon or nowt? Kimbers - They mean from fully closed....from closed is considered the first position or position 0, because Motocross and Motosports habits have crossed over to MTB.
So if I've understood you correctly, you seem to have had the opposite experience to me and FAST.
EDIT: I think I just misunderstood you. 😛
Just goes to show how even people of the Samish weight have vastly different set ups for their forks.
Without cost and user serviceability overshadowing between the Vorsprung Luftkappe and the fast upgrade, which gives the better performance and improvement over the divey pikes?
Took my 5 out yesterday for the first time this year, fork is lovely over general small bumps, but like most it dives through its travel when pushed moderately.
Heavy rider here at 100kg kitted up.
Pikes are also overdue a full service, noticed today they clunk at topout when lifting the front up.
Try the Luftkappe - it's cheaper. I couldn't say - but the spring side is usually the best place to start.
I felt that my coil conversion for the Pike made the biggest difference, it's probably the same for the Luftkappe.
The FAST damper will allow you to run more low speed compression though, without it feeling harsh - 100kg does mean that you're probably out of the weight range for the standard compression tune.
if you are sending your pike to TFtuned for a service get them to fit a luftkappe and reshim your damping.
Supposedly with a new piston, a reshim doesn't make much difference - FAST/TF Tuned do a reshim and piston upgrade option only as well, which is about 60 quid more than a standard service.
luftkappe is +60 on a service and a reshim is £50 on top of a service. reshiming will make a difference depending on the rider I suppose.
So my Lyriks are due a service and they are ace.
I'm 90kgs and running 3 tokens at 60psi.
Will this be a worthwhile upgrade whilst they are at Tftuned getting some love?
From reading this thread it's a massive improvement on Pikes but not so much on the Lyrik
Will I get more support on steep techy descents.?
it will make a difference on the lyric but not as much compared to the pike as the lyric has a larger negative air spring. It will provide more mid stroke support because you will be using more air pressure.
Soap.
I'm 70kg and running 75psi in my lyriks think you may need at least 85 🙂
I've not done the Luftkappe mod to Pikes but done 2 sets of Lyriks, one for 90kg rider (in full kit), one for a 70kg rider. We've both felt a very noticeable difference in the small bump sensitivity. We hit some fairly big stuff and it has really improved the support. Money well spent.
Had a proper run out yesterday at comrie croft. The black run had some proper steel rocky features and the trail is fairly rocky and rooty. Before I was running 70psi which was about 25ish sag, running the same pressure which gives about 30psi. The fork is much better over the small hits, holds up better with little dive under braking or decending. Before if I ran 30%sag the fork was wallowly and not supportive.
This is me mincing down the black trail - contains scenes of vulgar language and pig torture.
Are your handlebars on back to front and is that a herd of geese following you? 😀
bars?
The geese appear to be furious whenever that have to run downhill! 😉
I think you made the right move keeping the pressure the same and running more sag. It's taken me quite a few rides and some arm pump on Welsh uplifts to come to the same conclusion! Rocks make suspension tuning much easier...
I'm not even yanking the geese hard either 🙁
I think you made the right move keeping the pressure the same and running more sag. It's taken me quite a few rides and some arm pump on Welsh uplifts to come to the same conclusion! Rocks make suspension tuning much easier...
Hes running the same sag and more pressuure though? I dont thinking running more sag would improve the midstroke - probably make it worse due to the larger negative spring pulling the fork into its travel more easily.
Same pressure which gives more sag
I'm wondering if the luftkappe coupled with an andreani piston kit would be a sweet mix for heavy riders?
Although I personally think the andreani kit is expensive for what you get.
Anybody used polishedracing? One of my mates is good mates with these guys and recommends them, who recommended the Andreani kit.
Edit just seen this on polishedracings FB page.
non mobile [url=
Had a proper run out yesterday at comrie croft. etc
Properly awesome day there yesterday, nice and dusty!
Decent chance our paths crossed, I was the guy on a black Process.
No sign of any geese where I was, there were a few ducks* though 😀
*Both actual and trouser
black suppressor with a coil and my son was on a ripcord. Think I saw a black one at the picnic area.
Just ordered one of these though I think it's on back order unfortunately.
Regarding the Loctite, I've got some of the lipstick type 248 blue, will this be sufficient or will buying some of the red 272 be better?
Sam, buddy of mine is a mechanic for top EWS team, he's fitted these in all their bikes, reckons you need a heat gun to get the area bonded nice and warm first.
I've yet to ask him why... Just thought I'd let ye know!
Ta, I was planning on whacking it in a pan of boiling water for 10mins to hopefully loosen it off. It's the Loctite thing I'm a little worried about.
I have some 272, I'm sure I have, a big massive bottle. I'll check tonight, I could decant some into a wee dropper bottle if you need some, no probs...
I used 248 - zero kitten fatalities yet - I'm having the fork apart soon to service it so I'll check it, but I doubt it'll come loose, there's no rotational forces acting on it - I suspect you'd get away with putting it in dry.
Yes to the boiling water, Mrs hairdryer did little really.
The 2 I have done came off easily, no heating up etc, just a decent T Allen key.
I just used whatever threadlock I had, can't see how it would unscrew.
Cheers chaps and for kind offer NoBeer.
I'll wing it with the 248 and make sure it's pretty tight, though I have found a bottle of 272 for £6 on ebay.
Fitted a Luftkappe to my 29er pikes last night, initial thoughts that they feel a little more sensitive at the top of the stroke and ramp up nicely, proper test on Wednesday.
Servicing a mates forks last night and pulling the air shaft out revealed the following modification done by a suspension tuning company, simple, but only gaining a little extra negative volume.
[img] 
[/img]
That modification would only work on a dual air fork - on solo air the ratio between the +/- chambers is dictated by the position of the dimple inside the stanchion; the only way to increase the negative is with a hollow hat-shaped piston, like the Luftkappe.
Serviced Lyriks back from TFT. One of the comments was Modified the luftkappe to reduce stickiness.
Anyone know what this modification would be?
Servicing a mates forks last night and pulling the air shaft out revealed the following modification done by a suspension tuning company, simple, but only gaining a little extra negative volume.
I did a similar mod to a Revelation to lower it for use on a jump bike recently which resulted in the piston not passing the dimple as intended and a rock hard beginning stroke due to a lack of pressure in the negative air chamber. Not ideal.
Just checking why folk at using the Loctite 272 rather than the 271 mentioned in their install video?
I've just received my kit. Was going to fit it this weekend till I saw in the video about using this type of thread locker.
I used nail polish does the same job.
Wow! The bolt on my air shaft had so much loctite on it that it was all down the threads of the air shaft and had run most of the way down the inside too.
4 cups of boiling water and one set of mole grips later and it's finally out but wrecked.
The bolt came out of my spare air shaft dead easy after 5 min's in water.
How annoying.
dingus - Member
Servicing a mates forks last night and pulling the air shaft out revealed the following modification done by a suspension tuning company, simple, but only gaining a little extra negative volume.
I did a similar mod to a Revelation to lower it for use on a jump bike recently which resulted in the piston not passing the dimple as intended and a rock hard beginning stroke due to a lack of pressure in the negative air chamber. Not ideal.
I checked the number of O-rings and it came out exactly the same as the conical rubber spacer. Forks feel fine and no reports of any issues with them.
I tried spacing down a set of dual position revs, in the end I chucked the air assembly away and fitted a u-turn coil spring.
I've just orderd one of these to - I'm really happy with my pikes (they are GREAT forks!) but I'ma serial fettler (snarf snarf) so though I'd have a play to see what difference it makes...
Having more sensitive small bump response with less dive and more mid stroke will make the forks incredible!
Plus, it'll be a chance to take something apart!
I'm under 70kg (slimming up for summer!) so I think it'll help me on that front...
It's on a HT, so all this may be superfluous ot the fact I've no rear bounce, but hey ho!!
DrP
I have one coming too, even though I quite like the way my pikes work on the Bronson, I'm keen to see what difference the LK makes...
Got one on the way for my Yari's too.
I figured that for £60 I'd pop it in whilst I'm reducing the travel. On paper it should get air forks closer to how I want them, with a nice soft initial stroke for the chatter etc. So far all of the forks I've had have been a compromise between suppleness and not blowing through the travel.
The funny thing is, the Pikes really do seem great at the mo - they DO move well over the chattery stuff, so I'll see how the respond to the lufthansa in terms of mid stroke..
Really, I just wanted to try it..hope I don't mess up teh install!!
DrP
I'll see how the respond to the lufthansa in terms of mid stroke
I reckon you'll be flying mate.
Saw a review on PB, will probably give it a try myself when it's service time for my Pike & Lyrik...
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/vorsprung-luftkappe-review.html
Being able to take the tokens out made a real difference for me, reduced arm pump to nothing.
[quote=Bagstard ]Being able to take the tokens out made a real difference for me, reduced arm pump to nothing.
Agreed.
I got mine fitted at TF recently. Bizarrely I sent it to them with 2 tokens fitted. They sent it back with the Luftkappe plus 3 tokens!
Felt awful. Really bad arm pump which I never get. Switched it to 1 token with the pressure set for 30% sag. Feels fantastic. Such a difference.
Had it in for one ride now. Installed it at same time as increasing travel to 160mm and It's pretty much what I wanted.
Pikes always seem to stay well into travel when pointing down so I was running 3 tokens and way more pressure than I should. But this ruined the sensitivity and my arms would be feeling it by the end of the run.
The Luftkappe seems to increase support so less diving and increase sensitivity. So doing what it says but was hoping for slightly more support. Worth the money.
Fitted my Luftkappe and 140mm airshaft to my Yari's this week.
Still trying to figure the set up out; TF recomended two tokens plus more air, but the ramp up was nuts and the forks felft awful. Took out one token and started with 105psi but even like this the ramp up was quite severe so I gradually reduced the pressure whilst riding last nigh to 90psi. This gives 26% sag.
At the moment the set up goes against the general advice of more pressure.
I think I'm going to go for a higher pressure and no tokens on Sunday to see how that feels.
The breakaway is nice and soft though and they forks don't bottom out like my 350's did (they were always too much of a balancing act between sensitivity and resistance to bottoming out even with 15ml extra oil in the air chamber).
no tokens and 65psi in my Lyriks
Apparently the damper in the Yari causes a lot more spring ramp up than the one in the Pike and Lyrik.
No tokens and plent air pressure for me.
Apparently the damper in the Yari causes a lot more spring ramp up than the one in the Pike and Lyrik.
Possibly - mine ramped up like mofo's with two tokens in. Probably great if you're a proper sender.There's a strong ramp up with just a single token.
Has anyone cut down a token? Just wondering if it's possible in case one is too much and none is too linear.
Just got mine through and looking forward to getting it fitted over the weekend.
minmap3 - are you adding air gradually and cycling the fork as per the [url= https://vorsprungsuspension.com/products/vorsprung-luftkappe-upgrade-air-piston-kit-for-rockshox-pike-lyrik ]instructions[/url]?
Yup adding air bit my bit and cycling the forks - you can hear the two chambers equalising when you do.
Maybe out scales are out of whack and I'm not as far as they say I am?
Has anyone cut down a token? Just wondering if it's possible in case one is too much and none is too linear.
Or buy the Rampcart
Can you fit a ramp cartridge with a luftkappe?? Didn't think you could in some cases?
Can you fit a ramp cartridge with a luftkappe?? Didn't think you could in some cases?
It depends on the travel - I could at 140mm but thought I'd give the Luftkappe a whirl first as its half the price.