[Closed] Videoing the commute?

it'll turn you into a youtube commuting warrior. You'll end up looking for confrontation rather than actively avoiding it. IMHO

I know what you mean,

I've been riding to work for 8 years, always obey the rules of the road, there's a couple of tight sections on quite a busy road where a truck will have to wait to pass for 4/500 meters, I pretty much always pull over at these points to allow traffic to pass, I'm doing my best and not actively looking for trouble.

Just gets a bit much when all you really want to do is ride in to work without being taken out....

[quote=geoffj said]it'll turn you into a youtube commuting warrior. You'll end up looking for confrontation rather than actively avoiding it. IMHO

This is not true of course 🙂

I now use a helmet cam for my commute and have yet to post ranty videos up to youtube or "look for confrontation".

i was just passed by a guy commuting thru brentford with one of these

[img] [/img]

mounted the other way up on his stem with a cable going to his backpack

it'll turn you into a youtube commuting warrior. You'll end up looking for confrontation rather than actively avoiding it. IMHO

Load of shit, so all natioanl express buses and coaches are fitted with cctv for the same reason, along with telematics that send real time reports aboput location and speed , aceleration and braking back to base garage/depot.

Lots of info here

http://www.cyclecameratv.co.uk/

i use a discrete roadhawk for this job - after i was taken fully out by someone just not looking where they were going who went on to try and blame me for damage to his car.

contrary to the opinion above - i dont go looking for confrontation , infact ive had maybe 2 incidents worth recording on it since i got it 15 or so months ago.

i have how ever picked up a few incidents with other people - and handed the footage in.

what i dont do is put the footage up on youtube because for the most part neither party comes out of those shit slinging matches very well. as geoff says most of the youtube warriors are usually in just about as much the wrong as the car driver.

if anything i ride more careful with it - as remember it works both ways. it shows if your being a knob too .....

OK, so my initial response may have been a [i]bit[/i] tongue in cheek, but I do think that there can be a tendency to pursue a confrontation rather than avoid it, if you believe that you are in the right, feeling threatened AND you will be collecting evidence to support you.
It's also another bit of faff to worry about.
But I don't commute and road ride mainly on quiet country roads with little traffic.

Yes, it works both ways.

Some people reckon a camera on your lid modifies drivers behaviour too; hard to quantify but I seemed to get a lot less hassle after starting to wear a Contour for commutes.

Also yet to post any self-righteous guff to youtube.

I would never post it to youtube, no interest in that, I just wanted it for evidence for when something does happen.

Which model are you using Trail rat?

[url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/Veho-VCC-005-MUVI-HDNPNG-Handsfree-ActionCam-Waterproof/dp/B008KFMVZY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1402391573&sr=8-1&keywords=muvi ]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Veho-VCC-005-MUVI-HDNPNG-Handsfree-ActionCam-Waterproof/dp/B008KFMVZY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1402391573&sr=8-1&keywords=muvi[/url]

Good for the price and a little smaller than a GoPro

I got given a Roadhawk Ride camera as part of my involvement with Cycle Scheme. It does the job nicely and is much cheaper than a Go Pro.

To be honest it's also made me a more careful rider as video evidence will work both ways.

I've had one confrontation since I've been using it when a driver took exception to my displeasure when he got too close. As he started to rant at me I informed him he was being videoed and the incident had been videoed. He got back in his car in a huff and drove off.

I own several helmet cameras at the minute (need to flog some actually, cheers for the reminder).

But I don't wear one on my commute, I think it does change motorists behavior towards you but it will push them to "extremes" potentially. I'm sure the majority will make more effort to avoid you, but there will be a few arses that take that bit more against you because you are another [I]"Helmet-cam warrior looking for confrontation"[/I] in their eyes, and they will oblige...

I did wear one on the road once, on a Sunday, riding to/from the woods to document my Gnarrness. The shitty looks I got from some motorists were a good indicator IMO of how many see cyclists with cameras, it sends an unintended message and they think we're just out to shame them on Youtube...

If I did commute with one, I'm not actually sure I'd mount it on my noggin, I'd maybe consider mounting it rear facing on the bike, I think that is where most of the danger's come from, and catching the approach of a vehicle and its number plate might tell the police more...
POV mounted Cameras don't always capture the details you think they will...

If only motorists paid enough attention to spot a go pro on a cyclist.

roadhawk ride HD

battery life is 1hour 15 minutes- not the 1.30 they suggest. my commute is 45 minutes - 1 hour. charge it at both ends.

footage is good.

cant get on youtube but i posted a video from strathpuffer first lap shot from the roadhawk if you want an idea.

think its called "puffer first lap minus the fire road"

it'll turn you into a youtube commuting warrior.

The thing with this is, if we treat it simply and assume you can:
-either have a camera or not have a camera, and
-be a gobby idiot who picks fights and puts it on youtube or not be a gobby idiot who picks fights and puts it on youtube

then there are four possible 'types' of cyclist.

If you're a camera user who just gets home and deletes the footage every day (assuming you haven't been run over) then no-one ever sees your riding.

If you're a non camera user who is calm and sensible then no-one ever sees your riding because it's not recorded.

If you're a non camera user who rides like an idiot and/or takes exception and screams at every driver who comes within 6 feet then no one will find your videos on youtube because you don't have a camera.

If you're a camera user who rides like an idiot and/or takes exception and screams at every driver who comes within 6 feet then and then puts it on youtube then people will see you riding like an idiot and assume that everyone who has a camera does the same. And also make the assumption that you wouldn't be doing that if you didn't have the camera. Actually, you probably would, it's just that no one would see it!

And then of course there are the [i]gobby YouTube warriors[/i] who have actually made a difference: getting dangerous drivers convicted, getting companies to discipline or educate drivers, and teaching cyclists about common road hazards and safe riding in traffic.

(CycleGaz, for all the slagging he gets, is one of these people)

nope - he puts him self into a lot of those situations - of the videos ive seen he rides like a bell end.

I'd quite like a little version of a Google streetview camera (with video rather than stills) to give a better all round view of what actually happens.

POV is ok but not often where you actually need to be looking.

Has CycleGaz got anyone convicted? I wonder if you need GPS data (as mentioned on a similar car thread today)?

He rides more assertively than I usually would (for a quiet life) but within a cyclist's rights from what I have seen.

I find it a bit tragic that he gets such a slagging from cyclists.

The shitty looks I got from some motorists were a good indicator IMO of how many see cyclists with cameras, it sends an unintended message and they think we're just out to shame them on Youtube...

I ride "assertively" without a camera, I seriously doubt getting a camera suddenly transforms you from gutter rider to primary militant super cyclist.
Undecided on uploading to youtube, pretty sure I cba if I had a cam, claims of checking on a driver's history on youtube after a collision sounds dubious to me.

*hardly a fishing expedition either, these are things that are regularly flouted.

I find it a bit tragic that he gets such a slagging from cyclists.

^^^ this - if you weren't there at the time and unless you're a qualified cycle trainer, who are you to judge?

Every regular cyclist I know has tales of outright aggression and generalised carelessness which has led to either personal injury or just a deeply unpleasant experience... and the main reason why the general public won't ride is because they're too scared.

So whether we like 'gobby YouTube' cyclists or not, they serve a useful purpose in raising the public and Police's awareness of the typical cyclist's experience which will hopefully make riding safer and more pleasureable for us and everyone else in time...

That's why head mounting is best for filming commutes, but second best to a chest mount for filming trails. It'll get most of what you look at rather than just the road ahead.

Has CycleGaz got anyone convicted?

Yep. This is his most celebrated one:

Video was evidence. Gaz appeared in court as a witness. Driver was found guilty of Careless Driving, 3 points on his license, £200 fine, £140 court costs and £15 victim surcharge.

More details here: http://www.croydoncyclist.co.uk/rx11axp-result/

Worth noting how Gaz uses multiple cameras to cover rear approach and the front view.

So whether we like 'gobby YouTube' cyclists or not, they serve a useful purpose in raising the public and Police's awareness of the typical cyclist's experience

Agreed.

I think one reason we are seeing cycling safety being talked about more seriously these days is the rise in these videos demonstrating that it isn't (always) cyclists riding dangerously that are causing issues, which sadly is often the perception.

Thinking of getting a camera, alternatives to go pro with same quality?

GrahamS: Agreed. Just look at that cyclegaz video. Was he or the cyclist who was nearly hit 'asking for it'? Without the camera the driver could have just said she snuck up the inside of him while he was moving slowly.

Jacob: I use a contour HD. Probably not quite as good as the new go pros but a much better shape for helmet mounting.

Was he or the cyclist who was nearly hit 'asking for it'?

Sadly, going by some of the YouTube comments (and even a comment on Croydon Cyclist!), we are such a car-centric society that some people watch that video and [i]still[/i] blame the cyclist!

e.g. comments like these:

"Typical cyclists.. Always after blood when drivers make honest mistakes.. #Lycra-Taliban"

"fots get off the road then, you are all little criminals looking for trouble! you deserve to be killed!, can a driver not make 1 mistake without being reported"

"from the looks of it, it was the cyclist fault! floating around all over the road like its his!, the driver though he was gonna stay on the left"

"she didn't point her hand or signal, how the , is anyone ment to know where she is going, you all need to invest in a pare of indecaters"

"all you little cyclist are ** in the head to behonest!, there is so much left side road to use yet they go in the middle of the road, like this b* did!, the driver was falsely convicted!"

😯

Bails thanks mate, just looked at muvi HD £119 amazon. Not bad! I'll look at yours cheers.

Contour HD has good ergonomics, and the front assembly turns to level your shot (projects a laser line when you need it for doing that too). Video quality not quite as good as a gopro, and pretty pants in low light. The sliding on off switch is really affirmative and easy to use with gloves on. Recording at higher definition limits the field of view, only 720p lets you use the full angle of the lens.

I've only played really briefly with a Garmin Virb, but it has a similarly chunky and affirmative switch.

I've also been messing around with the new Shimano one; it makes audible beeps when you press the button to start and stop, and the beeps for each thing it's doing have a nice and very obvious difference to them. Not as usable in gloves, but not overly difficult to find the button on top and push it. The mobile app seems to be well built and gives you straightforward access to settings. Footage quality is really good, it over-saturates colours a bit, copes well with high contrast scenes and does okay in low light (A bit smeary as you'd expect though). Compatible with gopro mounts, and the widest shot it can do is 180 (If you chest mount it, makes you look like Stretch Armstrong and even the slimmest arms flap like bingo wings over bumps. (Edit) Full res still of the widest mode: [url= http://puu.sh/9ncqv/bb65c866bc.jp g" target="_blank">http://puu.sh/9ncqv/bb65c866bc.jp g"/> [/url]). I'm still experimenting with it, but the convex lens protector makes ring shaped flares under some lighting conditions and, because it sticks out, is a bit of a magnet for dirt and water.

The shitty looks I got from some motorists were a good indicator IMO of how many see cyclists with cameras, it sends an unintended message and they think we're just out to shame them on Youtube...

isn't this telling of drivers in general? The vast majority despise buslane/speed cameras, parking enforcement officers etc, they aren't there to create/escalate confrontation they are only there incase a driver does something wrong*, follow the rules and we'll all be peachy.

I essentially agree, but I'm not about to test the principle that we should all get along regardless, by doing something which seems to disproportionately antagonize some drivers.

My point is that I think seeing a Go-Pro on top of [I]"some lefty, tree hugger on a bike"[/I] just get's Mr Mondeo's goat, these days everything makes him feel "Persecuted" Fuel tax, [I]Road tax[/I], Traffic jams and now some shit on a bicycle is trying to catch him out and get him in trouble with the rozzers, or start an argument just so you've got something to put on the internetz.

Intent and perception are two different things. Yes you might simply be trying to ensure that should the worst happen the police have some useful video evidence and you are not unfairly blamed, but some drivers really don't see it that way and I think their reactions might make certain situations worse, not better...

For all the Good "CycleGaz" and his lot may have done, they have also helped paint a quite negative image of cyclists with helmet-cams being... well, argumentative Dicks.

I've just asked some of the more vocal drivers in my office {I]"what do you think of these helmet camera's on cyclist then?"[/I], they mostly seem to believe riding with a camera on the roads is done to try and [I]"catch Drivers out"[/I] and that all we do is [I]"Stick it on the internet and bitch about drivers"[/I]...
None of them seemed to even considered that it might simply be a bit of an insurance policy in case of an accident...

some drivers are incensed with cyclists being on the road at all, but you're not going to advocate removing yourself coz of those anger mis-management headcases. (I'm fairly sure)

But yeah there does seem to be an [i]image[/i] of "Youtube helmetcam road warrior" in the public's mind, pretty sure that is down to some media misrepresentation and a lot of wilful or ignorant confirmation bias.
I know the youtube comments section is not a nice place at the best of times but graham's quotes from people we presumably share the roads with are pretty damn scary.

cookeaa: what do those same folk say about other road users with cameras? They are increasingly common on all vehicles especially taxis, buses, motorbikes and commercial vehicles.

See http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/anyone-got-a-dashcam

To be honest though, if a driver thinks [i]"I could probably just squeeze past here without hitting him, but I better not because he's probably one of those nobs with a camera"[/i] then, well, that's just fine by me.

(I don't use a camera myself, but I'd consider gluing a black marker pen to my helmet if it had that effect 🙂 )

This is a good cam to helmet mount - HD quality for under £40
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Full-HD-1080P-DV-Waterproof-Mini-Sports-Camera-Bike-Helmet-Action-DVR-Video-Cam-/171350429427

People who say you'll go looking for trouble are idiots. Yeah, today I'm going to ride under a bus just so I get something good for Youtube.

But yeah there does seem to be an image of "Youtube helmetcam road warrior" in the public's mind, pretty sure that is down to some media misrepresentation and a lot of wilful or ignorant confirmation bias.

^^^ this - the camera-wearing rider is not the cause of the problem.
The anger and aggression was present in the driver when they got out of bed in the morning, and today's target was the cyclist. Bear in mind that 'road rage' is used against all road users, not just cyclists...

Cyclists don't 'make' drivers angry in some sense that the driver is passive in the whole process. They're angry people who have a need to persecute or otherwise vent... they just pick the easy target.

If the media or a driver claims that someone wearing a camera on their helmet 'made them angry' then they're being disingenuous at best

cookeaa: what do those same folk say about other road users with cameras? They are increasingly common on all vehicles especially taxis, buses, motorbikes and commercial vehicles.

TBH I wasn't expecting a reasoned debate on the topic, and I didn't bother to point out that vehicle DVR use is on the up generally, I simply asked, as we have quite a "Car-centric" set in the office who can always be counted on to tow the Clarkson line... 😉

At the end of the day I don't think wearing a Camera contributes anything much to your safety, it just helps with apportioning blame after the fact...

A Hi-Viz top with something witty on the back would be a better investment IMO...

pretty sure that is down to some media misrepresentation and a lot of wilful or ignorant confirmation bias.

Someone in our local cycle campaign proudly announced that his video was appearing on the [url= http://road.cc/content/news/120653-video-road-rage-britain-itv-documentary-next-monday-features-cyclists-motorists ]ITV "Road Rage Britain" show[/url] - I suggested he should be very wary of them misrepresenting it to suit the story thy want to tell.

Now that it has aired he says he didn't agree with all the [i]"2 wheels versus 4"[/i] tribal hyperbole that they put with it.

Surprise.

Surprise.

Also why the **** don't the programme makers freeze the video and do a voice over correction for the audience whenever some **** says "I pay road tax, I've paid for the road you haven't" and not just a road tax was abolished in 1936 pedantry the fact that it's ved which cyclists and [b]some motorists[/b] don't pay and it still doesn't pay for the ****ing roads. Too many people believe this bollocks argument, airing it again without a correction is really not helping.

I simply asked, as we have quite a "Car-centric" set in the office who can always be counted on to tow the Clarkson line... 😉

Which is odd because Clarkson drives all time with cameras and even an entire film crew 😀

Debz
This is a good cam to helmet mount - HD quality for under £40
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Full-HD-1080P-DV-Waterproof-Mini-Sports-Camera-Bike-Helmet-Action-DVR-Video-Cam-/171350429427

That looks like a bit of a bargain. Is the video quality good enough - can you read details like number plates?

Cheers,

Nick

The main question on my mind after watching a selection of these you tube videos is does anyone manufacture a solid brass or stainless steel mini pump, around 10 inches long with a snap fitting holder, something small but weighty.

airing it again without a correction is really not helping.

joolsburger - zefal frame fit pump filled with sand 😉

Debz
This is a good cam to helmet mount - HD quality for under £40
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Full-HD-1080P-DV-Waterproof-Mini-Sports-Camera-Bike-Helmet-Action-DVR-Video-Cam-/171350429427

That does look like a bargain. What weight is the camera and whats the run time.

Thanks.

I shall not respond to anyone getting my name wrong 😛

Oops - sorry DezB!
Still keen to know more about that camera if you'll accept the apology about your name!

Cheers,
Nick

Here's a sample. Note, I have it mounted on the bars, so it's a bit shakier than helmet mounted.
Goes up to 1080p

(or for balance) Bad light, wet day in November

Paid about £50 for mine, so I reckon £37 is a bargain.

Thanks for the replies, tbh if I got one it'd probably go on the bars, incidents don't happen that often maybe once a week? Pretty much all of them are from passing with far to little room, bus this week, Honda Civic last week. I'd just like a bit of protection and the chance to argue my rights if something did happen.

Easiest solution would be to ride a bit more defensibly, but if anyone's familiar with the Nelson to Ystrad Mynach stretch of the A472 on a week day morning then there welcome to have a go.

There is a cycle path that runs parallel about half mile to the side of this section but I got sick of getting punctures even with decent tyres.

Thanks for the input!

Can you tell us the weight and the run time Debs, please 🙂

Weight? Not much. The bar mount weighs a flippin ton though, so I use a lockblock thing.
Run time... hmm, couple of hours probably. I just use it to ride to work and back (hour each way), then charge.
One downside is that the USB cable is proprietary, so you only get one way to charge it.
It records 230MB files then starts a new file, the gap between is negligible though.
You don't really want me to weigh it do you Mary__G?

[i]You don't really want me to weigh it do you Mary__G?[/i]

Oh go on Deborah, please do.

Handily I have a spare lockblock kicking about. Does it loop record, so it'll keep going wiping over existing footage?

Dunno Hairy Mary, never filled my 16GB card.

I mostly just delete after the ride otherwise it's full of stuff I have no idea of what. Those incidents that I go looking for, I keep in a special folder, filed by number plate for when I get my gun.

Can't believe you guessed my stage name 🙂

Weighed it for ya: 77g (including microSD card 🙂 )

But yeah there does seem to be an image of "Youtube helmetcam road warrior" in the public's mind, pretty sure that is down to some media misrepresentation and a lot of wilful or ignorant confirmation bias.

Might be of interest; review of a rear facing light/camera:
http://www.edinburghrc.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=16081.0

Cyclists Under No Traffic are a nice group who deal with this type of thing.

They offer courses in no spacial awareness, using the road as a race track, and jumping red lights. The Go Pro programme is only open to those who demonstrate particular anger and arse-cleftness.

The shitty looks I got from some motorists were a good indicator IMO of how many see cyclists with cameras, it sends an unintended message and they think we're just out to shame them on Youtube...

It'll be the same here soon enough.

Hope so - the number of people driving like dicks with impunity needs dealing with. No wonder so many people are too scared to cycle

Had a fun one this morning actually, reminded me how simultaneously ignorant, incompetent, aggresive and dishonest some people can be while driving. (he's probably an idiot when he's not driving too, but he's unlikely to kill me then)

I'm on a roundabout, entering at "6 o clock" and wanting to go to right, so to 3 o clock.

Car is stationary at the junction to my left (9 o clock). As I approach it he suddenly pulls out after looking straight at me, he's going going straight on, to the same exit as me.

I end up next to him while slamming on the brakes and doing an emergency lane change to avoid him. In the process I let out an involuntary 'Oh dear', or words to that effect.... 'kin 'ell or something like that, not all that bad really.

He winds down the window (ped crossing right after the roundabout is red) and pokes his bright red, bulgy veined head out of the window and informs me that he'd like me to stop as "I want a word with you, you little s**t".* I asked why. He then swore blind that he had already been on the roundabout, and that I'd raced onto it, closed the gap on him, overtaken him in the right hand lane, got in front, and [i]then[/i] shouted at him.

The thing is, if he'd have hit me he'd have said the same to the police, and promised that he'd been driving ever so carefully and, you know what these lycra idiots are like, he just hadn't been able to avoid me when I'd thrown myself under his wheels. And the police round here would have believed him. That's why I use the camera, it's an insurance policy, not a 'content production tool' like it is for the youtube stars. Not knocking them, just saying that you don't have to upload stuff if you don't want to.

I got to work, had a quick look at the footage, and yep, I was on the RAB, at the bollard between the 'on' and 'off' lanes of the junction he was at when he pulled out.

*He told me to pull into the petrol station 50 yards up the road so we could "have a chat". I said "yeah, sure mate, you first...", waited for him to be blocked in and then left him to it. Got a nice shout of "OIIII, COME EEEEERRREEEEE" as I rode off. 😆

Be nice if you had a little screen to watch the playback with him during your "discussion" 🙂

But I suspect even with clear video evidence he wouldn't admit he was wrong.
Take that motorcyclist the other day that posted [i]his own[/i] headcam footage showing him sideswiping a cyclist knocking him to the ground in traffic, then shouting at him for being on the phone, and then flat out lying to the police about it.

His own video contradicted his account and he still posted it as "proof" of the terrible cyclist!

I wear a helmet cam for my commutes out of London, I feel naked without it. A couple of years ago, a bloke made a punishment pass (no idea why, I was well over to the left and hadn't been weaving through traffic) so close I slammed my hand against his car. He threatened to kill me once I caught up to ask him what the hell he thought he was doing.

Since then it's been mandatory.

I'm not a confrontational guy who's out to make anyone's life miserable, so I tend to acknowledge an honest mistake with a nod and a wink - I'd be lying if I said I've never made a driving error. That said, when someone's overtaken me at a pinch point or has nearly taken me out then I've had a polite word.

Unfortunately, the most common response to "You nearly knocked me off my bike" is "Well, I didn't, did I?". I really don't want to be a dick about this sort of thing, but it amazes me how blase some people are.

[i]Weighed it for ya: 77g (including microSD card ) [/i]

Oh thats nice and light, thank you Desdemona.

I wear one because an SUV once did a lane change between me (left lane) and a car turning right in the next lane, almost hitting me and the back of the car. Had to slam my brakes on to avoid getting left hooked onto the pavement. I caught up, sped alongside shouting "You almost ****ing killed me back there!" through the drivers' window, and they just nodded as if that was okay.

Oh, and there was the white van man who, when I was keeping up with traffic, in the correct lane for my exit on a complex roundabout, sat on his horn behind me then undertook just to scream abuse and push me into the next lane of traffic. Police were at the station, when I mentioned what he'd done they shrugged.

As the motorbike guy shows, helmet cameras aren't a cure for the kind of tribal bullsh*t people get mired in, but I'd rather have one than not. If some drivers or other cyclists want to assume I'm a sanctimonious youtuber, f*** 'em.

"Well, I didn't, did I?"

I can joke about nuking you from orbit coz it won't happen, joking about, or brushing off as of no significance, their dangerous driving when so many people die or are seriously injured by it is not acceptable.

Take that motorcyclist the other day that posted his own headcam footage showing him sideswiping a cyclist knocking him to the ground in traffic