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Only a bit of fun
I commute thru Edinburgh . Good observation is essential. I try to look at and in every car around me ( yes I look over my shoulder every 10-20 seconds) and when stopped at traffic lights I check out every car around me to see what stereotype it fits.
so ranked from the ones that put me in the most danger to the least
1) Private hire taxi
2) Black Cab
3) School run Dad
4) School run mum ( not as aggressive as dad but just as inattentive)
5) Trophy wife in range rover - inattentive and doesn't care about others
6) First buses ( the out of town company here)
7) Young women in nice hatchback - aggressive as anything
8 ) White Boy racer - aggressive but at least can usually handle the car and you hear them coming
9) granny / grandad in tatty old hatchback - all over the road, no idea whats happening
10) White van man
11) anyone else not stereotyped above
12 - the best - LRT buses. Well trained, courteous, never aggressive and give way to bikes - a revelation!
an yes - this could be construed as sexist ageist racist and loads of other ists. I put white boy racer as the lads of Asian descent are so proud of their cars they don't want a cyclist smeared all over them - I see lots but can't think of a single incident with them
I really do watch every car and make a quick assessment of what they are likely to do based on these sterotypes.
So what type of driver is your danger sign?
Who pays the most for car insurance? That covers most bases.
It was a trophy wifey in a Range Rover who caused me to buy a dashcam for my car by nearly hitting the front. A week later she made me regret not getting another for the back window.
The one behind the wheel.
[i]Who pays the most for car insurance? That covers most bases. [/i]
Younger people?
(edit) Amongst any group, doesn't it start to vary with any kind of claims record?
School run mum driving a clapped out VW Passat... I've been had twice by these - once in the car, once on (or rather off...) the motorbike. Neither trivial, both write-offs, both turning across main roads without so much as a sideways glance. I'm running out of lives!
I'm in Edinburgh too.
I'll agree with the taxis being the worst and the LRT buses the best.
Other than that I find its location based as opposed to who is driving. Anywhere busy with lots of traffic lights and lanes that merge into each other or swap position, especially if road markings are worn away. Lothian Road/Morrison Street area is bad as is Leith Street/Elm Row which is just basically a massive meat grinder
In descending order:
Buses.
Taxis.
Retired Grandparents 'out for a drive'.
School run parents.
Young females.
Everyone else.
Car-wise:
German models (BMW, Audi, Skoda, VW, Seat)
Trendy car (Mini, 500, DS3 etc)
Modified in some way.
Everything else.
Scotroutes - if it was " what sterotype is likely to chuck their car thru a hedge backward at speed" the order would be somewhat different. This is only looking at one type of danger - those who scare me when on my bike
With the exception of Glasgow Black Cab drivers, who are a special breed of arsehole, the bad driving is too random to really reach a conclusion.
BMW's not indicating is a cliche for a reason though!
I really do watch every car and make a quick assessment of what they are likely to do based on these sterotypes.
Every car, how can you see who's driving a car when they're passing from behind in the dark?
I commute by bike and as above instances of bad driving are way to random and making assessments based on car/driver type is a dangerous game to play.
I really do watch every car and make a quick assessment of what they are likely to do based on these sterotypes.
A shorter term for which is: 'confirmation bias'.
Unless you also clock each time that the observed do *not* conform to your existing negative stereotypes and hence do not further 'confirm'. In which case you are commendably unbiased and my hat is off.
Over the decades I've grown to treat every single motorised vehicle and driver as a potential and unpredictable hazard to both self and bike.
I can't see who is driving it but I do try to see the type of car. should be "try to watch" which is what I thought I typed
Its all streetlight as well.
confimation bias indeed but its just how it appears - and as I said just a bit of fun
the most aggressive drivers I have encountered recently have all been young women in new trendy cars.
Where I live - pensioners who drive a Honda Jazz
Generally unpredictable driving.
Not noticed a pattern, just random t**ts.
I can't see who is driving
So how do you know its a trophy wife, white male, mum, dad, etc.
Interesting about LRT buses. I have had a few problems with them trying to kill me, but now I think about it none of these were recent - maybe they have had some better training in the last few years.
In these parts it's drivers of Tata's finest Indian tractor, the Range Rover particularly on narrow country roads where they believe it gives them some sort of entitlement to force anyone else out the way, whether in a vehicle, on bike or by foot. I'm particularly impressed by the ones that have the radar that can detect whether there's anything coming other way as it permits them to take blind bends at speed on the wrong side of the road!
Tom - they have indeed and are now the best drivers towards cyclist. A huge change over the last ten years or so
anyone gripping the steering wheel as if holding an polaris missile at intercontinental speed.
They will often have a facial expression to match. this can be seen as sheer terror or completely unaware of surroundings (unable to process information). it can also manifest itself as sheer concentration as if trying to steer said missile between a the kerb and the cyclist coming the other way!
most often seen as:
7) Young women in nice hatchback
9) granny / grandad in tatty old hatchback
Mine:
1. Private hire taxis
2. Tradesmen, usually accompanied by a puff of sweet smelling vapour out of the window.
3. HGVs.
Gary = by looking in the car - its all street lit and often I am in daylight. 9 months my commute is in daylight. some of the observation is when stopped at lights ( around 20 sets on my commute) When a car is alongside you and then moves into your lane you know who is driving, when a driver leans out of the window to rant at you you know who is driving
I also ride around town on my days off
Where I live - pensioners who drive a Honda JazzGenerally unpredictable driving.
Ditto, although you can predict two things.
Any Honda Jazz will be driven by a pensioner, and it will never exceed 40mph.
you have forgotten the category
survivalist offroader.
distinct from the farmer/ suv driving mum types/ proper overlander equipped offroader
these are they guys who have a tow rope and and ironic stickers on their 90s disco/ landcruiser. most likely to be wearing a gilet and belt mounted phone/ gerber like some little englander utility belt.
Don't get them in urban Edinburgh thom
In no particular order -
Tradesmen in vans - usually with a smartphone in their hand
Trophy wives in big 4x4s - again often with phone in hand
School run mums
Anyone driving an Audi Q7, or any other large Audi for that matter.
HGV drivers
most drivers under 25
most drivers over 75
Gary = by looking in the car - its all street lit and often I am in daylight. 9 months my commute is in daylight. some of the observation is when stopped at lights ( around 20 sets on my commute) When a car is alongside you and then moves into your lane you know who is driving, when a driver leans out of the window to rant at you you know who is driving
I'm confused, you either can or can't see who's driving!
[b]I can't see who is driving it[/b] but I do try to see the type of car. should be "try to watch" which is what I thought I typed
Minicabs - especially Addison Lee
Rubble trucks (the rigid 4 axle types, typified by Cappagh)
Elderly drivers, who although not aggressively dangerous are unaware/unreactive to rapidly changing situations.
Pedestrians with phones glued to their ears or faceaching stepping off the kerb at complete random.
After that, it's a mishmash, although I'll admit to a deep suspicion of any white SUV with black wheels. London cabbies are generally pretty good, although you do get the odd one who f*cks around with you just for shits'n'giggles. Buses and HGVs get given lots of room. Don't generally have too much issue specifically with the german cars that get a lot of other riders hot under the collar.
On the whole I generally find London traffic not too bad these days. Most drivers are pretty well conditioned to bikes and I'm usually the fastest moving thing anyway. Sheffield is worse as the traffic flows more freely and the drivers are less used to bikes.
Around mine it's the old folks, by a country mile.
Any car about to join Dundas street from any side road.
To be honest, lately it's been "business guys". You know, big saloon car, jacket hung in the back, wearing a white shirt and tie.
They flock in and out of the city at rush hour using every small back street possible to avoid a lights, and enjoy jumping out into the smallest gaps, even if I'm there on my bike!
Gary - yo asked me firtstly what happens in the dark - so then sometimes I can't see them but usually I can because its streetlit. However most of my cycling is in daylight. Perhaps not explained well but do you really need to nitpick and question so much on a thread meant to be a bit of fun?
the most aggressive drivers I have encountered recently have all been young women in new trendy cars
This is a fair shout, and indeed a recent trend. They seem to have been given a special dispensation to never move out of lane 3 of the motorway as well
Do LRT fit CCTV to their PSVs now? McGill's, Stagecoach and First Bus do in the west and their staff driving standards have improved greatly of late. Camera records the driver as much as anyone, should be compulsory.
Definitely not 11, cos that's me!
Old people and school runners I'd say from general experience plus one commute I did this year at 3pm-ish.
You forgot Bin lorry drivers,who like bus and taxi drivers think they own the roads,and thats coming from a white van driver,
Oh and the females who apply make up whilst driving like F'n loons
Perhaps not explained well but do you really need to nitpick and question so much on a thread meant to be a bit of fun?
Yes, of course. Why not?
Anyone who drives for a living, the fuzz excepted. Always too fast and close. As if they are more important. Followed by German car drivers. Dovthey think they are superior? They seem to.
Fuzz included. They remember that one bit in Roadcraft about indicating and never do it again. Great example.
Addison Lee mini cabs
Mazda 6
Vauxhall cars with Irmsher badges
Cars with Nurbergring stickers
All of the below will produce extra caution on my part.
Any car with a Leeds Rhinos sticker covering the entire back window. Leeds United FC sticker nearly as bad.
Anyone driving a Nissan Juke.
Anyone with a hat on the back shelf.
Very surprised courier drivers have not been mentioned.Royal Mail have done a lot of work at aiming for zero accidents not so much a job and finish culture and you get taken off the driving even if your not at fault for several weeks.
Bus drivers and white man van are the most I have had incidents with!
Saying that I have only been hit by an old school jag
TJ: You seem to have forgotten the Citylink buses.
Micra drivers
I'm struggling with "[i]trophy wives[/I]". How do you differentiate them from successful women who might actually own their own expensive motor vehicle?
Probably influenced by my commute route but: people in Burkas. Never worn one myself (obvs) so don't know if its because they have rubbish visibility (I wouldn't even drive with my hood up personally) or some other reason but some stretches of my journey you can almost guarantee someone wearing one is going to pull out on you.
Toyota Prius drivers and their pious belief that they are actually saving the planet, because they aren't.
psling - MemberI'm struggling with "trophy wives". How do you differentiate them from successful women who might actually own their own expensive motor vehicle?
I don't - its lazy sterotyping If its a range rover - trophy wife. Nice porsche - successful woman in her own right? Its only the ones in rangies that are out to get me tho.
Its just one fitting the stereotype nearly got me the other day/
LRT bus drivers get specific training on co existing with cyclists and it works. The wave you out of side roads, sit 30 ft behind you coming up to a stop not 3" or overtake and stop. If a bus gets too close to you in traffic in Edinburgh its always a first bus
Not so much when cycling, but in towns and places like retail parks, I notice that women often accelerate and drive faster, even when it might be dangerous. I think they just have their mind on other things. Having said that, a few years ago when I didn't own a car, I'd cadge lifts from work colleagues, and often the women would be more vocal in their criticism of other drivers, and generally impatient.
The worst driving I've seen while cycling recently was when we were overtaken by a bin lorry driving uphill on a narrow B road and on a bend. The oncoming car driver had to take evasive action in order to avoid a collision.
I'm surprised WVM isn't higher on the list, both punishment passes I've experienced have been by them (including one on a cargo bike with a 3yo on the back)
Anyone wearing a hat.
Driving instructor had this rule of thumb and it's been incredibly accurate. Covers neds in baseball caps through to old biffers not paying any attention in their jazz/juke/micra and 4x4 mob in between.
Can't beat a good stereotype!
In these parts it's drivers of Tata's finest Indian tractor, the Range Rover particularly on narrow country roads where they believe it gives them some sort of entitlement to force anyone else out the way
haha, I came here just to post the very same. I work in an office where Tata have a floor of the building, there's freebie Range Rovers everywhere, all an absolute nightmare. Even today we were in town and had one honking it's horn as the car in front was letting someone pass.
I can't say any other demographic hugely stands out, everyone seems to drive into the bike advanced stop line at every set of lights.
That said, I drive a BMW and previously drove a Mini, so I'm probably quite high on the list. If any other country would accept that people can potentially be 200cm+ though who knows what I'd be in.
Brassy blonde birds in Range Rovers
HGV drivers
BMW 5 series
Young girls in smart hatch backs
In the lanes of South Devon I'd go with:
1. Young women (often on their way to / from the stables, which is even worse, given you might have expected them to have an awareness of the issues with traffic in narrow lanes, given their performance when they are on their horses).
2. Holiday makers - they generally have no idea of where they are / where they are going so drive by peering at the GPS and driving in the middle of the lane to avoid the hedge. They all seem have vehicles that in terms of perception, far exceed their actual physical dimensions on the road. None of them have reverse.
3. Main roads / towns, it's kinda everyone. 😕
4. On the rare and frankly buttock-clenchingly horrible occasions you have to use the A38 Devon Expressway to jump from one lane to another, it's the big Euro trucks and courier vans, then anyone else.
Another on the range rovers - up north on single track roads the only incidents I had were with newish range rovers - 2 of them refused to drop a wheel off the road to let us past. One wanted me to back up a tandem and trailer uphill to let him by. All the locals fine. Camper vans - fine. Posh range rover pain in the arse
Royal Mail vans are undoubtedly the worst around here, followed by white vans, then minicabs, then taxis.
i'm actually not joking but anyone with a flat cap or trilby. my uncle told me this and to watch out when i was learning to drive and i have to say he, for some reason, is totally right and to this day i give anyone driving who is wearing one a very wide berth.
oh, and a very specific one, anyone in cornwall who ain't local especially in summer.
Empty 8x8 tipper trucks. They must handle like an MX5, judging by the way they carve their way through traffic!
grockles or Emmetts then?
for sure your list will vary depending where you live.
Micra drivers. All of them.
Number 10 on the hit list, phew! Students on bikes with no lights cause me the most stress when driving around the 'burgh.
Young girls in smart hatch backs
Yep, definitely this for me. Shiny new ish Fiat 500s in particular
Anyone in a Peugeot. Usually with a broken light. You just never know what they're going to do.
Predictably aggressive driving is much less of a problem IMO (Audi man)
On the flip side - anyone with bike racks on the roof (for obvious reasons)
[I]Most[/i] bus drivers I've encountered recently have been OK.
Whilst we're at it with the stereotypes - I'm convinced that most cars with broken lights are peugeots. I'm not sure if that's because they're shodily made or because the drivers are oblivious but it's a real pattern I've noticed. Keep a look out. .
Interesting.
On my commute...
Bad
vans, buses, 4x4s, mobile shopping trolleys
Good
HGVs, BMWs, boring large saloons (e.g. Mondeo)
Horribly generalised though - an industrial skip lorry came close the other week
I drive for a living in London so I see a lot. My list includes:
Tipper Lorrys, as above, they must have the handling of a sports car the way they are driven.
Scaffold Lorrys: thugs of the road
Royal Mail: Variable, some OK some are shocking
Couriers: Again some OK some real nightmares
Trunk run lorrys(Royal Mail/courier companies) absolute ****s! Ever come down archway hill with one of those bearing down on you. I have been rear ended at archway roundabout by one of these.
PCO minincabs(including Uber): Addison Lee are the better end of the business and some are ok but(massive generalisation), overall the African drivers tend to be aggressive and poor drivers whereas the Asian chaps are just poor drivers. For example, my run into town comes down the M1 and I often see above minincabs on the Luton airport run. Driving at 40mph in the middle lane of the m1 with the interior light on whilst they check their PDA for work.
White Van men: Some real chimp brains here but some really good professional drivers
Bus drivers: Ok
Wannabe gangsters: you can spot them a mile away in their blacked out mercs/bmw/audis. Just avoid.
Cyclists: broken down into the regular commuters(good, aware of the surrounding traffic) that ride in all weather to the nice weather cyclist who is clueless. Boris bike tourists(we drive on the left hand side of the road you chimps!!)
Pedestrians: probably the biggest source of stress for me as a road user. Nobody is paying attention/glued to their phones and putting themselves in stupidly dangerous situations. And then giving a little sorry wave when I swerve around their absent minded lurch into traffic.
School run Mum's: nightmares!!
Ghetto princess: usually drive an older BMW X5, merc suv etc. Extremely aggressive, dangerous attitude, best avoided
Scaffold lorries, driven by people who generally don't give a .., some of the worst close passes ive had have all been from scaffold lorries.
Cars with stuffed toys on the dash or parcel shelf
Cars with aftermarket fur steering wheel cover
Metallic bronze or brown coloured cars
Any car with an unclean rear number plate or defective light cluster (or both)
Toyota Yaris
When I commuted in/around London by motorbike the worst drivers had to be a toss up between Addison Lee and middle-age Asian women in 4x4's.
Now living out in the sticks, only 'hazard' are old folk who do 40mph, irrelevant of the speed limit/conditions etc.
tjagain - Member
Don't get them in urban Edinburgh thom
How about people who clearly need their eyes tested...
There are loads in urban edinburgh
I'm driving to Scotland next year, so me!
The safest is definitely any Saab. Never, in the history of the world, have the words "ooh, look at that maniac in that Saab" ever been uttered! 😉
Lol at the few slating bus drivers/lorries etc owning the road .. Guess you haven't driven a large vehicle in a very busy city ?
It's good to see positive mentions on here for Lothian bus drivers it's not easy 8)
I'll add it's black cabs from me(not all) but Jesus wept when a hand goes up for a fare the dodgy ones only see pound signs and do some ridiculous manoevoure!! It's butt clenching slowing a full bus gently 🙄
Surprisingly bad are people with an mtb on the roof driving to GT/Inners.
This time of year seems worse for all types of dickhead drivers. I commuted across Sheffield for a meeting this week and had more close passes/pulled out on/delivery vans driven on the wrong side of the road right at me, than the rest of the year put together. Merry ****ing Christmas!
Middle aged men at the wheel of a people carrier on the motorway....you can almost smell their anger and frustration at the situation.
So what type of driver is your danger sign?
Any. In my experience there is no "type" for bad or dangerous driving, and I think the range of answers in this thread supports that view.
I agree that LRT drivers are pretty good, and I know a few are cyclists themselves.
Around here on busy rural roads it's generally young men trying to overtake a on a blind bend in there mums Corsa. Older me do it too but generally have faster cars to get them out of trouble. Combined with loads loads of slow farm traffic, an elderly demographic, and a large lorry depot nearby it means there I far more accidents that anywhere I've lived before
Older Nissan Patrol and Shogun drivers are an obvious omission. Especially those with a sweaty unkempt look to them.
Crew cab pick up drivers (gender neutral) that are not used for actual building/towing work but are "on the company" worse if have child seats in.
Timber wagons. Absolutely batshit mental.
IMO "bad" drivers aren't really defined by their demographics, the vehicle they drive or the stereotypes you might apply due to your own biased world view.
But the worst (IMO) are the ones who think they know best; who can reel off a dozen or so descriptions of the "worst drivers" spend all their time behind the wheel eyeballing everyone else with a simmering mix of false righteousness, impatience and envy and generally aren't actually especially good at driving themselves, but "everyone else" is a dickhead of course...
The OP and half the posters on this thread seem to slip neatly into that stereotype...