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Hopefully one of the accounting types can sort this little gem.
Scenario - customer has a blanket order for goods delivered to UK, normally charge VAT and applicable excise duty.
However, customer has asked for some of those goods to go to Spain, but raised a separate order to cover just transport costs.
Now when invoicing; as the goods are not delivered in the UK, on the original order we would only charge for the product and the applicable excise duty for [u]Spain[/u] and with the new order number charge the delivery fee under the VAT self accounting scheme - i.e. NO UK VAT charged - does this seem right.
My view being that all goods and services sent outside of the UK are not subject to UK VAT accounting??? is that right?
ta muchly
*not an accountant*
don't you need the spanish vat number of the company in order not to charge?
this is what i do when being paid from the E.U. or buying stuff.
You are invoicing a UK customer who has asked for the goods to be delivered to Spain so UK VAT is applicable on goods and transport.
If you were supplying a Spanish customer who wasn't VAT registered then you would charge UK VAT.
If the Spanish customer was VAT registered and supplied their VAT number you would quote this on the invoice and supply the goods on reverse charge so the Spanish rate would apply.
Spainish VAT and import duty is chargeable. I would imagine you do not have a mechanism to pay that to the Spainish authorities (or perhaps even know what those taxes are).
As a comparison if we buy from one of the German bikes sites we pay German VAT - that's my understanding
The customer is trying it on IMO, trying to avoid the tax. It's little tricky for you as it's a long term customer.
I've tried to buy mail order from the UK when living in Singapore and not pay UK VAT (Singapore sales tax is much lower%) but that's not been possible, UK companies always charged me VAT and said I had to reclaim it. f I'd bought t eh stuff in a UK shop I could reclaim it at the airport ut I would have to declare it via the "Red Channel" in Singapore.
Craig, thanks for that, sounds familiar now, the client has a facility on Spain (obviously), that is VAT registered there. Now just to confuse matters - i need to use a clearing agent for the excise, and they will charge me VAT on that excise in Spain -therefore should i only charge UK vat on the product + delivery less excise duty?
ta muchly
As a comparison if we buy from one of the German bikes sites we pay German VAT - that's my understanding
and if you are in the U.K. and buy from europe for your vat registered business you do not pay vat or charge it on goods and services sold to vat registered businesses in europe.
Spainish VAT and import duty is chargeable. I would imagine you do not have a mechanism to pay that to the Spainish authorities
no, but there is a mechanism not to pay if you are vat registered, all you need is their vat number.
jambalaya - thanks for input - there is no dodgyness going on - it's b2b stuff, that our finance girl (not the brightest spark and i really don't have time to mentor) is struggling to get her head round. It's a very large OEM, but does not help with the complications.
Purchasing departent UK, ordering division in POland, Finance department in Romania...
sorry should add to this, that both PO's are from the "UK side" with the UK VAT number. I appreciate if the PO was from Spain, Germany, poland etc that it would come under self accounting practices.
ta
the vat helpline people are quite helpful, i called them last week about something similar (services sold to the US)
Sui - MemberCraig, thanks for that, sounds familiar now, the client has a facility on Spain (obviously), that is VAT registered there. Now just to confuse matters - i need to use a clearing agent for the excise, and they will charge me VAT on that excise in Spain -therefore should i only charge UK vat on the product + delivery less excise duty?
ta muchly
What are you supplying that needs excise duty?
Not a 100% on this situation as it is a service supplied in another EU country but for the benefit of the UK customer as you're shipping on their behalf. It would normally be reverse charge as you said above but the UK customer is the benefactor of the services so you would charge VAT at UK rate. I would call HMRC on this for help and get a reference number in case they change their minds later. The clearing house would also probably know as they will have had similar situations before.
Hello all - just to confirm that instead of being bone idle i took advice and spoke to HMRC.
Craig for info the product is specialist fuel for testing.
Notice 725 section 4.3 clears this up - simply that IF the client is the same in Spain as the UK and holds an applicable Spanish VAT number then self accounting rules apply -does not work if receiving party is not the same client though.
still gets a bit complicated as i've already paid the vat on the excise duty through a clearing agent, so have to claim that back somehow..
cheers all..