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Hi guys. Currently own a genesis vagabond which i bought primarily to ride towpaths / bridleways with the Mrs who's just getting started cycling . I do ride on the road occasionally hence why I didn't go for a hardtail MTB .
Currently planning to do the c2c way of the roses next year and thinking the vaga may be a bit hefty for it. The planet X full monty SL has caught my eye as a suitable replacement as it's well priced and has a long top tube which I favour with being an mtb'er at heart .I just can't get used to the seemingly cramped cockpit of all out road bikes.
I am a fan of steel frames and the comfort they offer but there's no getting away from the extra weight penalty!
Looking to you chaps for some suggestions of other bikes that may fit my vague criteria!
Ta!
Fugio?
Treat your Vag to some bling hoops and rings? 😬 Maybe a carbon post?
Whyte Friston (or Gisburn/Glencoe) are very long by road bike standards. I find mine a lot of fun but I'm not sure I'd choose it for a long distance rides - the riding position puts a lot of weight on the bars for me and takes a toll on my arms after a while. Worth sitting on one to see if it suits you, at least.
I'm in two minds as whether to also suggest some lighter bits (especially wheels) or perhaps a frame with different geometry. Either way, a lighter frame alone won't make much difference IMO on its own.
I rode John O'Groats to Land's End on a 1999 Cannondale Lefty-forked MTB with slick tyres, so given that I think you'd probably be more than fine touring on a Vagabond.
For what it's worth, I have a Shand Stooshie as my all weathers / light touring bike (it's marketed as a gravel or "all road" frame). On the basis that it's the bike I ride ride most often, I decided to deck it out with some light wheels, carbon components and Ultegra. You basically won't get a much lighter steel bike of its type... and yet it still weighs nearly 10kg! However, with chilled geometry, discs and mudguards it is massively comfy and versatile. I wouldn't do MTB on it though... and it's a good 5-10% slower than my anorexic road bike, although I think that's more to do with geometry than weight.
Treat your Vag to some bling hoops and rings? Maybe a carbon post?
A Vajazzle?
Thanks for your responses guys. A lighter / second wheelset did cross my mind, both from the weight point of view and practicality of being able to have a set for road tyres and knobblies. The forks have also always seemed monsterous especially for steel items. But by the time I've forked out £600 ( at a guess) for wheels & forks I could almost have bought an entire lighter bike . Decisions decisions!
Steel I hear you say......
I contemplated one of these before settling on my Salsa Vaya
Lovely looking bike! Out of my price range though u unfortunately!
If you can find one, the deeply untrendy Raleigh Maverick Comp is rather surprisingly capable. Clearance for up to 700x47c tyres, Reynolds 631, reasonably traditional geometry, and cheap enough to be able to chop and change parts without breaking any budget.
The 2019 Salsa Fargo in the new olive drab looks er just like a Vagabond.
Someone mentioned Raleigh! A rare event these days. If you do switch to alu you would drop 2.5+kg with a stock Raleigh Mustang Elite or an Arkose 3.
Also if no-one's mentioned already check out the Sonder Camino?
Before choosing the Vagabond I nearly went for 2016 Maverick Elite. It was a handsome, reasonably light and snappy in the flesh. Relaxed geo too for the more gravelly end. Yet the minute I demoed the Genesis it was just stupid comfortable like a glove and begged to bollocked down bridleways and flung along miles of farm tracks just because.
Will still be putting lighter wheels on. Then larding one up with a dynohub. Choosing the Vagabond I figured that a bit of bike weight won't hurt if it's more rideable for it. Rding it more than I might a road geo will help losing the 19kg of middle age chunk I seem to have somehow accumulated 😮
If I was riding more roads and not planning on touring I'd look at some Audax offerings too?
Spa Cycles Audax (steel) is the same price and weight as the Arkose. Looks comfy as. Rim brakes tho.
If you have the budget to take a look at Ti maybe go try out their Elan?
Your only going to save what, 3-4 lbs by going to a lighter bike. The Vagabond is great, comfy, and surprisingly nippy, so I'd just ride it stock with some faster rolling tyres.
I've done 100+ mile rideson mine with 40c tyres, and its the perfect tool for comfy all day riding.
Yet the minute I demoed the Genesis it was just stupid comfortable like a glove and begged to bollocked down bridleways and flung along miles of farm tracks just because.
You’ve summed up what I’ve been struggling to say! 😁 It’s great fun off-road, the more broken the track the more fun. I have ridden my CAADX twice since I got the Vagabond because it does what I need so much better - and this follows twenty years of me telling everyone that they need a cross bike in their lives. (The two cross rides were a check-over ride two weeks ago, and then a cross race last week. The CAADX will be kept but really only for racing.)
And there are very few alternatives to the Genesis because it’s a drop bar 29er, not so much a gravel bike in the vague current definition.
If I had unlimited money I’d not replace the Vagabond, I’d replace all of the heavy parts. And maybe buy a Cutthroat. 😁
so I’d just ride it stock with some faster rolling tyres.
Was surprised to discover that my fattybombatty 35c Schwalbe Landcruisers weigh nearly 2kg with tubes. Once rolled up to speed they make short work of country lanes and distance, but you can of course feel that weight when accelerating and when hoisting the bike.
OP what tyres are you running for roads? This thread has me thinking about my own plans, ie maybe a set of lighter wheels and some 28c road tyres would be a great second pair for the old fastchange Jekyll and Hyde approach, keeping the Volares shod with Nanos (or similar) setup tubeless for offroad shenanigans. Carbon seatpost is a given.
Slight aside, just fitted some SKS Bluemels for the winter. It was a small faff as need extra drop fixing from crown, a few tweakbends to the stays plus longer bolts spaced with locknuts to clear the front caliper and to reach the chainstay bridge.. The seat-stay bridge was solved with a thick ziptie.
Happy to report they are now as silent in use as the rest of the bike. I'm funny like that. Now to trim the stays and fit caps to reach the very heights of OCD fulfillment.
Ride the Vagabond. I've done Way of the Roses and lots more on my Fargo, way overbiked but who cares? 37c Vittoria Hyper Voyagers on there for most things, they are pretty light for a big tyre, and plenty of puncture proofing. Big apples or Landcruisers when I know it's going to be rougher.
Ditto and ditto. I have a Fargo too - it feels like an absolute tank but I have to remind myself that the frame and fork only weigh ~750g more than a nice skinny steel road f+f.
Not sure what weight your vagabond is but agree with the previous comment re fast tyres, my Salsa Vaya is steel/carbon fork and weighs 22lb ish, but with fast tyres doesn’t feel like it
Vagabond is overly hefty though - I went from a singular swift with cromoto forks just for the extra rack mounts etc - wish I'd keep the swift instead 😞
Malvern rider, get some flaps on the end of those guards to reduce wheel spray significantly
Vagabond is overly hefty though – I went from a singular swift with cromoto forks just for the extra rack mounts etc – wish I’d keep the swift instead
It’s not a light bike - roughly 28lb for my standard build. But doesn’t feel heavy when ridden. It’s a far nicer ride than my Caadx away from tarmac and the CAADX is a very competent cross bike. (In comparison the CAADX is about 21lb.
Bit unfair some of these comparisons.
You can load a Vagabond up with four panniers, barbag and a rack bag and it will cope just fine.
Most frames desgned to carry that type of load weigh about the same - Disc Trucker, Vagabond and surprisingly the Croix de Fer.
You can build them according to intended use, but the frames are a bit heavier for a reason.
Vagabond is overly hefty though – I went from a singular swift with cromoto forks just for the extra rack mounts etc – wish I’d keep the swift instead
My large Swift with carbon fork (which I bimble about on in the guise of a flat bar gravel bike) is over 27lbs but I love it (I don't race or chase).
However, this looks quite nice and currently about the price of an Arkose - http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ns-bikes-rag-gravel-bike-2018/rp-prod160389 but is alloy not steel (looks to be about 22lbs).
TBH you're spoilt for choice in the gravel bike market but looks of folk love the Vagabond. A bit of extra weight isn't always a disaster if you're happy with what you've got.
Salsa Warbird frame in the classifieds 😀
I weighed my Vagabond when I first got it (2016 model which was lighter than 2017 model due due to lighter cranks, BB, and wheels) and it was 27lbs give or take a bit (on my luggage scales which are accurate-ish)
Currently it's got 38c road tyres, a carbon post, and carbon forks, and a lighter saddle. That's dropped nearly 3lbs from the weight.
I'm thinking about going 1x with a 38t ring, so I could drop the front mech, cables, shifter and the inner ring. So probably another lb or so.
It's all academic though, as soon as you put on any luggage and a couple of full water bottles, your adding it all back on again!
If you like how it rides then use it. If this is really a justification for an N+1 purchase then fill yer boots 😉
Hi guys .Thanks for all the Info & advice .I've been weighing it up over the last few days and think I'll go down the weight shedding route.
I had a croix de fer a few years ago that was a bit big for me so swapped it for a London road. Didn't really get on with the geometry but remember thinking how 'buzzy' it was compared to the cdf.
I'm not planning on racing anywhere so agree that comfort wins the battle. And of course more training! It's currently on 2.1 knoblies but have a pair of 28c roads in the garage.
Been browsing for a lighter wheelset to keep the slicks on, carbon forks & post .Issue I have is finding a good looking fork that can accept 2.1 tyres .most of the 29" MTB offering look like the uppers from suspension forks! Did see an offering which took 40c (can't remember which ones now!) Which I could live with. 2.1 is probably overkill anyway!
Thanks again guys keep the advice coming!
If you've got the original WTB 2.1" Nanos on, then you could loose a few 100gs per tyre but, personally, I wouldn't good too narrow as you could loose some of the comfort. I've not tried them personally but I've heard good things about the Schwalbe G-Ones and there are a fair few widish slicks/gravel tyres out there.
No I bought the frame set so have vittoria barzo's. A bit over knobbly for what I need but couldn't resist at about £10 pair!
Currently it’s got 38c road tyres, a carbon post, and carbon forks, and a lighter saddle. That’s dropped nearly 3lbs from the weight.
A 24lb all-terrain touring bike w/disc brakes is nothing to be sniffed at 👍🏼
What forks did you get?
Malvern rider, get some flaps on the end of those guardS
Already on it, would have some on already, you wouldnt believe what a royal PITA trying to source ultralite carbon reinforced flaps these days... 😡
I jest! Back on topic - have been following this blog - bloke from Devon gave upped sticks, grabbed a (stock?) Genesis Vagabond and is cycling around some far flung places. Some of you may find it interesting:
https://ridingcontinents.com/blog/page/1/
I was initially disappointed to find little to no pics or mentions of the bike, yet my miffage soon turned to admiration and no small amount of reflecting. A silent endorsement? 🚴🏻⛰🛣
Vagabond is overly hefty though – I went from a singular swift with cromoto forks just for the extra rack mounts etc – wish I’d keep the swift instead
Swift is supposed to be 3.8kg, Vagabond is 3.9kg, so there really isn't much in it, Swift must have nicer tubing to offset the weight of the EBB which might affect feel, but there isn't much in it overall.
I'm keeping an eye out for a s/h vagabond (or a sized down swift) as a long distance commuter.
I was initially disappointed to find little to no pics or mentions of the bike, yet my miffage soon turned to admiration and no small amount of reflecting. A silent endorsement?
To be fair anyone riding as far as he has probably runs out of stuff to say about the bike and gear after the first few days!
Wow! That blog is going to take a while to get through..... It looks like he's doing it on the stock rims, judging by the picture in Mongolia. Makes me feel a bit spoiled for replacing mine with hopes, especially when mine only get used for local bridleway bashing purposes!
I'll second the view above that it might not be worth shaving weight by going for smaller tyres on the Vagabond. I tried replacing the 2.1 Nanos with 40mm Nanos thinking it might save some weight and reduce rolling resistance, but it ruined the whole bike. Less comfortable and capable, and hence slower off road, but not appreciably faster on the road. It took the joy out of it for me. I'm back on the tubeless 2.1 nanos now and very happy again.
A 24lb all-terrain touring bike w/disc brakes is nothing to be sniffed at
What forks did you get?
A set of the Exotic ones - mainly cos I already had them in the 'spares' box. They're the suspension corrected 26" ones, so spot on length-wise for a rigid 29er. They do look a bit chunky with road tyres, but mean that you can still fit a nice big front tyre in if needed.
The carbon post is a USE Alien, which again I already had in the garage.