[Closed] Using "the tip" by bicycle - red tape content

Just bullshit. It's like banning you from supermarket car parks because drivers kill.so many cyclists there.

Good luck, I hate this kind of crap with a passion.

Might be worth looking to see if cycling UK or that barrister guy have said / anything to say on the matter?

Ask them to send you a copy of the risk assessment that deemed cycling to be "unsafe" and clarify the measures they put in place to prevent site personnel and motorists outside their cars to be safe.

See if the same council has a sustainable transport officer. They might have a different view and enjoy challenging this sort of thinking.

Dovebikers got a point, maybe ask to see the risk assessments for disabled users eg wheelchairs.
Then ask why bikes are different.

It's that paranoid fear of petty litigation should anything happen

Onzadog has a good point re the risk assessment for cyclists and pedestrians once out their car.

The council's sustainable transport person is also a good line to take.

To be fair to the tip operator, they have to assume everyone is even more stupid than a Tory minister, based on what we had locally when they reopened after lockdown

It's crazy that because there's a chance of litigation because people can't operate their cars properly that it isn't the cars that are banned!

Great points re: sustainable transport officer and risk assessment report. Thanks, I'll definitely be using those ideas.

Just go in your car? 🤷🏻‍♂️

I don't use my car for short journeys, but I do have the luxury of owning one. Many people don't, so I'm standing up for this and the environmental side.
Why should some short sighted bureaucracy go unchecked?

All of that other advice seems good and you should do that.

If you get nowhere with that then can you please consider just going on the bike but make loud engine noises as you do it?

Are motorbikes allowed in?

They love their red tape at the tips near here. Had an interesting discussion at one of the Oxfordshire ones when I went in my old defender 90. Was told I'd have to pay to get rid of the garden waste in the back because it didn't have windows and was therefore a commercial vehicle. Pointed out it had seats in the back and the council website said if it had seats and/or windows it was ok, also not registered as a commercial vehicle. Eventually got shown their picture book of what was a commercial vehicle. Then I got told that it was illegal to insult a council employee after suggesting it may be better if they could read the website rather than relying on picture books. Went back in same vehicle 2 weeks later once the side windows had been fitted and not even a second look.

Heath and safety my bottom! It's more likely that they want to track site use with their anpr cameras.

My local tip is the same, you used to be able to walk or cycle in. Then they started charging more for commercial tickets, banned pedestrian & cyclist access for "elf & safety" and installed anpr cameras and height restrictions.
Now mid covid 19 you have to book a slot and they've also banned vans & trailers.

You could try an FOI request for accident & near miss statistics involving cyclists on the site for the last 5 years😀

Same down here
No pedestrian access to tip
But cars ( which hit and killed an elderly gentleman a few months ago inside the tip ) are absolutely fine
Not sure about you , but I have never killed anyone by walking into them

Surely if your objective is taking something to the tip then taking it in your car seems a lot less time and trouble.

a cyclist would be hard to spot and thus the operator has felt that this would not be safe practice in Health and Safety terms

Made me actually laugh.. but then I thought... people at the tip aren't used to cyclists being there. People driving on the road are used to us, and they are ****ing bad enough. Do your own risk assessment... is it actually worth the hassle?
Also, the tips are currently doing bookings by reg no. due to Covid.. how would you book your bike under that system? You can bet they won't be arsed to try to work it out.

Luckily, I have a thicket near my house that I don't have to book and has no cars, so I load my trailer up, ride over and dump stuff there. 😀

I've got a trailer slot booked for the weekend.

I await the that's a commercial vehicle comments (it's a 1980s land rover) no business would run it as a commercial vehicle.....it would bankrupt them.

I've had them claim my camper van was a commercial vehicle.....I asked what sort of business they would run from it.....a mobile brothel perhaps ? The funniest thing about that was he couldn't get it in his head that I wasn't actually going to remove anything from the camper and that all I was disposing of was the tiny little 750kg limited trailer on the back it was just that my camper had the towbar.....

They are just being propper jobsworth and good on you for sticking it to them when they come out with these rediculous statements.

Jekkyl I guess that all depends on your priorities in life. I prioritise not using my car for short unnecessary journeys on environmental grounds. It takes me longer to do some things, but I'm being active while doing it and it means I'm not burning dead dinosaurs doing so.

Have you seen the standard of driving in a tip site? I felt nervous in my old beater of a car and nervous in the work hilux. Most people seem to drive as if it is just then in the middle of an empty field, then you can add the ones doing their bi annual trailer trip with no concept of how car and trailer affect each other.

Plenty of jobsworths and challenged individuals working in them though, but will save that rant for another day.

I've run a few bike recycling shops at various tips around Warwickshire and I can hand on heart say that if you want to meet workers that love a bit a red tape/health and safety bullocks and hi-viz clothing then the tip's your place. Good luck, there should be access for pedestrians and cyclists it's nuts to ban them

Going to the tip used to be fun - when you could have a rake around and get some goodies to take home.

Nowadays, you can see why folk flytip

Jekkyl I guess that all depends on your priorities in life.

and your sense of perspective. You are not going to achieve much by not using a car for one short trip to a tip where a car seems to be necessary and if you had done so you would have completed the tip task and can get on with other stuff in your life.
You currently haven't been to the tip (so still have the waste) and am now involving yourself in loads of council hassle just so you (and possibly the one other person in the borough who may want to cycle to the tip) can cycle to the tip to prove a point.

I believe the phrase is "choose your battles"

I believe the phrase is “choose your battles” "know your place"

FTFY

Its nice that the battles most of have are moderate but its always worth standing up for inequality.

Go in the car, this is pathetic

Calling is inequality is a touch dramatic but you carry on. Like I said, all about sense of perspective...

Why not wait until after Covid-19 is under control?

Council services are under attack from cut backs and cost savings. They've enough to worry about right now.

I used to love my small local tip.got my 1992 marin from there for 20 quid as well as an unused mongoose bmx that just needed the crank putting back on from loose hence why it was scrapped.regularly used to ride my bike in to check out their bike stock.no one ever said anything.

There's a petition here that a few posters might like to get behind:

https://petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions/257243

"British Roads are now so busy, especially during rush hours, that it is unreasonable for Cyclists to use many roads, and as there are usually Cycle lanes available now, it is now time to enforce use of these lanes for safety of the cyclists, and avoid road closures after an accident."

Unfortunately, its closed now, though.

Go in the car, this is pathetic

And if you don't have access to a car ?

Pay a man in a van to fly tip it ?

Go in the car, this is pathetic

If we're going down the insulting route, so is some peoples over reliance on cars for short journeys.

The tip is closer than the supermarket for me, and I haven't driven to the supermarket yet this year.

Having said that, if it fits in the bike trailer does it not fit in a couple of bin bags?

And if you don’t have access to a car ?

He does.

He does. But there are millions of others that don't.

The tip is inaccessible for them currently.

Easy to see why folk pay the lowest bidder to fly tip

Good to see the stw behaviour Police out in force!

Contact cyclinguk.see if they can send the council an email if your a member.to be fair I bet your the only bike trailer combo the tip hasever had to deal with.

He does. But there are millions of others that don’t.

The tip is inaccessible for them currently.

Easy to see why folk pay the lowest bidder to fly tip

Agree with all of that, but in this case the OP has a car, could just use it and get on with his life.

Ours in east staffs are the same for bikes and pedestrians. Private non commercial vans they are fine with and even commercial vans getting rid of private waste. e.g. plumbers van with a load of garden waste they are fine with.

On the whole they do a good job. The people chucking stuff on the other hand - half of them can't even be bothered to sort waste into the correct containers.

Or he could challenge some classic LA H&S tripe?

And he could be left to do so without criticism.

Similar thing happened here, to our local XR bod and passionate cycle campaigner, he took it up with council and rules reversed within a few weeks.

Stuff like this needs challenging as it’s discriminatory and just nonsense. If the site isn’t ‘safe’ for cyclists (but is for pedestrians?) then they need to put procedures or infrastructure in place to make it safe, a bike is just another vehicle after all.

We have 2 locally, one run by LA staff, one contracted out. The LA one is a bloody nightmare, weren't interested when I took my caddy with some roofing slates, then spotted some copper piping, wasn't a problem after that. 🙂

Agree with all of that, but in this case the OP has a car, could just use it and get on with his life.

Ah yes good old "I'm ok jack."

Fair play to him for being bothered to stand up to the tip jobsworths

I understand they have to be hard on the vans and I can accept that but to say no bikes on HSE grounds is bull shit. Best stop going to supermarket by bike too... That car park could be dangerous.

Agree with all of that, but in this case the OP has a car, could just use it and get on with his life.

Without wanting to trivialize some much bigger issues from the last few years, they may well also be* white and male. Should we ignore all issues that aren't directly our problem?

*assumption based on stereotyping

You're obviously even more crabbit than usual this morning tr, I'll leave it.

Fly tippers are a scourge, but it is no surprise it’s on the rise when councils make it so disgracefully hard to dispose of waste properly and responsibly. Our main tip is an awful place, but I’ve found one on the outskirts of town which is a far more relaxed and pleasant experience - can’t beat a good tip trip!

Thanks to all the people with a positive attitude on this matter. It's very helpful.

You’re obviously even more crabbit than usual this morning tr, I’ll leave it.

tips have got on my goat recently. - Cant go in with my landy to get rid of my private DIY waste - (manky cardboard mostly from the kitchen thats been used to protect floors etc) already sent 2 x 5 ton 8 yarders out paid for - theres not enough to fill another but the guy at the tips solution is i should put it in my car because my land rovers commercial ......

sounds familiar.

I wonder if the reactions above would be the same if it was any other council provided service? You can only use the leisure centre if you drive there? Or the forestry commission fencing off their land and saying you have to arrive by car or you won't be allowed to ride your bike on the trails?

"Councils have got it tough at the minute so let them indulge in pointless bureaucracy that blocks residents from using the services they've paid for through their council tax" is a pretty poor argument!

Edit: Presumably the council that thinks it's far too dangerous for bikes and cars to share the same space has provided a joined up network of fully segregated cycle tracks on its roads?

Good luck OP. I cant see how a bike is more at risk that someone wandering around the site with a plastic / metal based toy trying to decide which bin it goes in. Fight the power!

If there's one thing I've learned it's that councils and their various arms length organisations, community councils etc. are almost exclusively staffed by the sort of miopic muppets you wouldn't trust to run a bath.

By all means fight it and I hope you win but I fear you may be on a hiding to nothing.

I definitely read a news story recently about a guy who successfully campaigned to get access to his local tip by bike, but can't for the life of me find it now. It was somewhere down south/west country I think. Would be useful to find out to show precendent.

It's good to fight these things, if for no other reason than stupid bureaucracy needs to be scythed back like weeds before it strangles everything.

Random tip anecdote: some friends of mine packed their hatchback to the rafters with stuff for the tip when they were moving house. Drove to the tip to find they'd introduced a system where only odd numbered registrations could use it one day, even the next. Obviously they were on the wrong day, so they had to drive home, shift it all into a friend's car with the right registration and drive back 🙄

I definitely read a news story recently about a guy who successfully campaigned to get access to his local tip by bike, but can’t for the life of me find it now. It was somewhere down south/west country I think

That might have been our local chap I mentioned on the previous page (we're in Devon).

Imagine the hoops we had to jump through to be allowed to ride (5 loads of) this in:

OP you have my support. I get 12 trips a year to the tip because I drive a camper van so I have to hoard stuff. It’s so clearly not a commercial vehicle in appearance (windows right round, v5) but ‘the system‘ doesn’t allow for that. Soooo obvious why all the ditches and dogging spots are piled with domestic crap.

I ride my bike with a bob trailer to the council tip in Marple (Stockport), a couple of bin bags at a time (I have a nutter on my row of houses who I'd really like to not have another stand off with) once a week. Nobody has ever objected in the slightest. Are all local authority tips run by Virdor?

Fair play to him for being bothered to stand up to the tip jobsworths

It's like an Emmeline Pankhurst for the 21st Century.

Presumably the council that thinks it’s far too dangerous for bikes and cars to share the same space has provided a joined up network of fully segregated cycle tracks on its roads?

Excellent point

Don't let the idiots on here get you down OP - as a point of principle and common sense, tips need to be safely accessible to all users.

The increase in fly tipping - and the cost to the council's cleaning it up - is obviously linked to the barriers they put in that make using tips so hard, but they can't see that in their blinkered silos.

Agree with all of that, but in this case the OP has a car, could just use it and get on with his life.

Outrageous. This is a human rights issue after all.

It always bemuses me slightly that so many people take time out from what they're doing to demean other people's perfectly reasonable attempts to simply do something without a car.

@amedias - If you have any more information re: the petitioning of the council or contacts that might be useful I'd very much appreciate it. PM me if you'd rather not share publicly.

The OP really needs to wear a helmet cam and upload his discussions with the workers to YouTube. Shouting "tell me your name and employee number" in a shrill voice will get added views.

@Bez me too, but then I remember that a significant amount of posters here aren't actually cyclists 😃 (and/or are bell-ends) 😂

@amedias Sorry, I did scan through for other mentions of it but missed that. Sure I read an article on one of the cycling magazine websites, road.cc or cyclingweekly but can't see it. That's some tyre mountain BTW 😮

Fair play to him for being bothered to stand up to the tip jobsworths

It’s like an Emmeline Pankhurst for the 21st Century.

I'm glad someone came along to call out the OP for trying to be good person and having the audacity to discuss it in public. (Assuming you're being serious and I haven't missed a pun here!)

I had an argument with the tip with them saying I needed a commercial permit as I went in my camper van and also wanted my phone number which I refused as they would never call me. I wrote to my MP who contacted the tip and incredibly problem all solved no permit and no phone number required.

Just change the last 3 digits on your phone number Marin.

It always bemuses me slightly that so many people take time out from what they’re doing to demean other people’s perfectly reasonable attempts to simply do something without a car.

I am equally bemused as to why someone wouldn't just use the car they have in this case.

I think it is good for someone to do what they can without using a car (even if they still own and use a car) but if you have a car (and use it for other things) then just use it in this scenario and get on with your life.

If it is about starting a campaign to change the world so everyone is free to cycle to the tip that is a different thing I suppose.

I've only done one tip run by bike, with a dead parasol-folding pushchair on the back. I was expecting agro from the staff but mainly they wanted to talk to me about my cargobike. At the moment I think what happens will depend upon the member of staff you happen to get on the day, and how the rest of their day has gone.

Well done for challenging it; ignore the h8ers.

Worth getting in touch with your local Green Party, if they're active?

What are you guys taking to the tip that is too big for a wheelie bin but still doable on a cargo bike/ bike trailer?
Similarly the supermarket shoppers - I fill the boot of my admittedly modest hatchback on the weekly/biweekly shop.
If I didnt own a car, I'd have to do a series of smaller shops*, which is possible, but seems ridculous when I have an automobile. I usually do it on the way home from something else too, probably about half mile extra driven.

I'm a fan of practical green lifestyle choices, but this doesn't seem like one.

*Including having to buy smaller packs of some things, with more packaging per unit...

What are you guys taking to the tip that is too big for a wheelie bin but still doable on a cargo bike/ bike trailer?

"The Tip" is actually a recycling centre. Separate out your metals, hard plastics, wood, etc and it can all be recycled at the tip.

I think it is good for someone to do what they can without using a car (even if they still own and use a car) but if you have a car (and use it for other things) then just use it in this scenario and get on with your life.

Do you not think that the OP might have considered that option, though?

It seems a little redundant for multiple people to say nothing mire than “give in and do what they want regardless of whether it’s reasonable or has any impact on anyone outside of this thread”.

We don’t collectively make much progress by just accepting daft restrictions just because we happen to own a car, so it seems odd to actually advocate not making progress.

Good on you op

If you can't go to the tip on your bike and don't have a car or any friends who have one, call the council and arrange a domestic collection, they are circa £15 for 3 items.

If you bitch and whine enough then you may get them to collect FOC.

What are you guys taking to the tip that is too big for a wheelie bin but still doable on a cargo bike/ bike trailer?

In my case, a broken pushchair.

Similarly the supermarket shoppers – I fill the boot of my admittedly modest hatchback on the weekly/biweekly shop.

Some people do a monthly shop for bulky/heavy stuff and use the car, then weekly shops for fresh by bike.

If I didnt own a car, I’d have to do a series of smaller shops*, which is possible, but seems ridculous when I have an automobile. I usually do it on the way home from something else too, probably about half mile extra driven.

I don't drive, but my wife does. If we weren't paying for her car we could afford a taxi for occasional larger shops - walk there, taxi back.

I’m a fan of practical green lifestyle choices, but this doesn’t seem like one.

Seems perfectly sensible to me.

If you can’t go to the tip on your bike and don’t have a car or any friends who have one, call the council and arrange a domestic collection, they are circa £15 for 3 items.

Or take it by bike.

What are you guys taking to the tip that is too big for a wheelie bin but still doable on a cargo bike/ bike trailer?

It's not just size, it's also about getting rid of stuff in the right place. For example, I've currently got 5 litres of old engine oil I need to get rid off. Its not very bulky or heavy but I'm going to go to the tip and put it in the oil disposal tank rather than put it in my wheelie bin.

I agree with the OP.

This is an issue of sustainability and equitable services.

The access to recycling centres being 'restricted' to car-owning (ergo pretty wealthy) and driving public is an issue. If the OP wants to use a more sustainable transport to support more sustainable recycling services then the site should work to make that happen.
I do think at our local place H&S concerns are valid - the access road is shared by all sorts of bin trucks and wagons, the ramp up and sorting areas are poorly designed. That said, everyone is out of cars anyway and mixing with moving cars so bikes shouldn't be too much of an issue.
I will skip over our recycling centre being located a way out of town...

This of course is all separate to the 'I have a van / camper / right / business hiding' issue.

Just a thought, How about asking some of the people in the (usually huge) queue outside the tip if they would mind chucking your bags of rubbish in their car and taking it in for you. I'm sure they wouldn't mind, the tip near me always seems to be full of people who look like they are actually enjoying the experience (although to be fair during lockdown I would have taken any outing as a plus!) 🙂

Yep, good luck OP.

That might have been our local chap I mentioned on the previous page (we’re in Devon).

Imagine the hoops we had to jump through to be allowed to ride (5 loads of) this in:

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Jebus. Just imagine the H&S hi-vis clipboard council bod with that one-

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How about asking some of the people in the (usually huge) queue outside the tip if they would mind chucking your bags of rubbish in their car and taking it in for you.

Now there's a man who hasnt' been to tip during the Covid situation. You have to book it. There are no queues. In fact it's empty most of the time.

[edit] erm, except for the crazy rally driver cyclist killer types that are whizzing round the place blindfolded. Natch

Do you not think that the OP might have considered that option, though?

Nope, otherwise would have just done it rather than sticking to some self governed arbitrary distance about what trip should be made by car or not and meanwhile still having the waste in their possession.
Yes, great to question it and try and do something about it but likely to have that waste sat there for a while in the mean time
Just shows, as always, we all have different approaches to life. I tend to take the quick and simple approach, especially when it is staring me in the face...

No Drac I don’t change the numbers I just refuse to give it out when it’s either totally unnecessary or an information gathering exercise.

I tend to take the quick and simple approach, especially when it is staring me in the face…

I’m not sure you do, though 😉 The quick and simple approach to this thread would have been to leave the discussion of how to change things (which is where it started) to rumble along, rather than to spend time answering a question that was never asked.

Anyway, enough of this diversion…