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Guys
I'm having trouble getting the tape to stick to the rim-bed and to itself at the ends. Looking for tips please. I've a part roll of genuine Stans and it seems pretty much identical in sticking - down issues.
Yeah, I've watched the Stans video.
I AM managing to get the tyre to seal but I'd like to do a better job!
It's 25mm TESA 4289 tape [ like this stuff on fleabay http://tinyurl.com/ybyny3c8 ]
It's Hope Enduro Pro rim = 24mm internal. Had to pull off the original yellow stuff when I re-dished to boost with the Hope adaptor (easy job, 1.5 turns on each spoke, part code for the 15mm conversion kit is HUB441). I wanted to check how much spoke was left in the nips afterwards. Better check now that after they pull through on a hard track! They were absolutely fine. Showing level with the bottom of the slot in the nipple on the "loosened" side. I guess 1.5 turns is nothing, should have left well alone!
I've read that getting rim and TESA tape up to room temp helps [makes sense], so I warmed them (don't go too far, BTW or the tape goes hairy!) - still, though, its really hard to get it to stick nicely into the curved rim bed - even after having been inflated to 60 psi overnight. Yeah - I cleaned the rim bed with degreaser (Kami, expensive stuff for getting tape residue off drum scanners! don't ask) and then used a green scourer.
I'll try isopropyl alcohol as degreaser next time. if the tape still doesn’t stick at least I can drink it. ( I know it's lethal BTW).
The yellow tape changes colour (looks darker) where its pressed down and actually stuck (someone wrote that it's pressure sensitive, which seems right), but I am finding it's coming back up in some places after I press it down hard with a cloth. Maybe I need to stretch harder! I pulled pretty hard. Its very hard to get the very ends to stick nicely and the Stans fluid always gets underneath a bit.
I did try reinforced packing tape once (the clear stuff with threads in), but the adhesive and residue of threads took a very long time to get off when the time came.
Got any tips please?
thanks lots
neil
The problem lies mainly with the rim. The profile of the rim is such that you get a very small surface to stick to. So much so we went and manufactured our own rim tape just to solve the Tech Enduro problem. So my suggestion obviously is to buy some Bird tape, but more importantly its pot luck with TESA/Stans tapes.
I rough up the surface with sandpaper and clean with IPA. Agree that the Tesa tape isn't the stickiest but I've never had any problems if you're careful with the cleaning & take your time. I always stretch it a bit as I apply it & use a felt squeegee thing to work the tape down into the rim profile as I go along. Might be easier to use narrower tape & do each side of the rim separately (overlapping in the middle), depends on the rim width/shape & tape width (the "proper" Stans tape I had before I got the Tesa tape was narrower - 19mm I think - and possibly was a bit easier to use)
Some people rate Gorilla Tape, I've never used it as I've always got on OK with Stans/Tesa but I imagine it's a lot stickier.
Imo how well it sticks to the rim isn’t the issue. So long as it’s wide enough to cover full width of rim and a bit more.
i agree it doesn’t seem the stickiest so where the tesa or Stans tape overlaps, I stick a short bit of gorilla tape on the join just for safety.
i still think above is preferable to using gorilla for whole rim. Gorilla seems more prone to piercing from tyre lever use, and the textured finish makes the tyre bead sliding into place can be more difficult depending on how tight the bead is.
Gorilla tape IME absorbs sealant which makes it useless.
The trick with Stans is to clean the rim thoroughly, sand it , then clean it again with IPA. And put in on with enough tension to force it down a little into the well of the rim. Then inflate it with a tube to really press it down. Once it's stuck down properly it doesn't come off easily.
The only tips I can offer are;
Fit slightly wider tape so that the tyre is pressing the tape into the beads.
Pull it VERY tight when fitting it so that it's actually stretching.
Install the tape then fit a tube and tyre and then leave overnight.
I find it sticks better when you warm the tape up
Clean rim
Wire wool to roughen it up a little and clean up
Pull it VERY tight when fitting it so that it’s actually stretching.
A mate had the advice you should break a sweat fitting it 🙂
Warm/room temp helps as it will make things a bit softer and help the adhesive.
2 layers and then set it up
Worked 99% of the time for me.
I use scotroutes method,but with a scrub with IPA and a green scourer first.I use three wraps,first one down the centre centre,stretching and pressing well in with a piece of sponge,and then two layers one each side of the centre,and put a tyre on and inflate a tube overnight,in a warm room.I'm glad they last at least 12 months when done right.
P.S. I use Tesa 4289.
I've found pressing it down in multiple passes helps. So the first pass is into the curve of the rim bed, then once each side to get it to tuck behind any hooks on the bead shelf (if present), then once more each side into the sides. Run the end of a tyre lever or similar along to push into the corners.
Sounds like it takes a long time, but because each pass is only trying to do one thing I find it almost as quick, with better results.
These days a I use a hair dryer on the rim first too, which seems to help with the initial 'stick' while you're working.
600 sand paper and disc brake cleaner (cos it was to hand). Then a tube for 24 hours.
For those using a tube is it habit or because of failures, sounds like your not getting it tight enough to start with if the tube is pressing it in for you. All of the ones I've taped have been inflated and out as soon as the tape is cut.
I used a hairdyer as I go along to make the rim even hotter before stretching the tape onto it, then a lot of thumb force to get it pressed in.
I only use TESA and have done 6 wheels or so. It's perfect despite the light adhesion.
Habit. And assuming that compression won’t hurt.
I am using 4289 with the scotroutes thing of putting in a tube first to get the tape stuck down. [However I got lazy and still haven't gone tubeless after 200km]
For those using a tube is it habit or because of failures
Habit, but also because it's easy to do and makes sure that edges of the tape are well stuck - if there's a bubble in the middle of a stuck-down area of tape then air pressure on 1 side will compress it with or without a tube but if an edge is lifting, air pressure won't make any difference as I see it. If that makes my taping last any longer, I'm happy; if it makes no difference, I've "wasted" about 2 minutes per wheel
1. Make sure the rim is super-clean (i.e. IPA until it's like new).
2. Apply the tape very tightly. Someone mentioned above that if you're not sweating while you do it, you've not got it tight enough - I think that's good advice.
3. Once you get started, the tape should stick, but I have sometimes resorted to spare hand (i.e. wife) to hold the tape while I pull it round
You'll know you've got it tight enough because it looks like a tensioned drum. No creases.
You guys using this on carbon rims?
I didn't have any luck when I tried but will have another go trying some of the tips here.
I ended up using gorilla tape and the tyres went up fine, but one of them does deflate a tad after a few days so wondering if the tape does absorb some of the latex or it's leaking, nothing obvious.
IPA on the rim and I find that having the wheel in the bike can help when it comes to stretching it. The really annoying bit is when you've got 18" to two feet on the rim satisfactorily, but the whole lot comes off when you pull really hard.
TESA/Stans is pretty good, but the best I have found is proper rubber rim strips that Mavic supply with their wheels. Even when I use them for slightly wider rims, I haven't had an issue as they go far enough into the rim hooks to still work and the sealant takes care of the rest.
been experimenting with loads of different types recently - polypropylene (Stans, WTB, Tesa, etc), polythene (I think like Bird?) and glass fibre cross weave reinforced stuff too. Good results with the polypro, but as you've all seen, less tack and i'm also doing the inner tube trick to get a longer term leak free solution (i can get them set up when taped by hand no probs, but find the sealant makes it's way under at some point if not 'pressurised' with the tube). The Polythene stuff I'm finding to be not that amazing - though certainly does adhere and confirm to the rim bed better, but always had it leak around the valve - ended up putting a little square of duck tape on those to fix that. The crossweave stuff is good though - couple of layers and seams good so far.
That all said, I'm using the yellow polypro stuff on most builds still!
Gorilla handy roll tape. Been using it for nigh on 3 years on my plus bike wheels (Alex Supra 35 and Hope 35w rims), A single, tight, overlapping wrap is plenty and has worked every time for me.
On wider rims like mine I've had no need to overlap it (it's only 25mm wide) and run the tape right into the bead either. YMMV of course depending on your rims etc.
I've not noticed it absorbing sealant either. Just replaced the tape on my rear wheel when I replaced the hub, was in almost perfect condition. Gorilla is a thick and heavy tape though.
The main downside of gorilla is getting the residue off the rim if you need to retape. I found it worked OK, but was easier to dislodge with a tyre lever by accident, particularly when soaked in Stans for a bit.
Thanks for the inpur everyone, much appreciated
I have taped a couple of pairs of rims with wtb tape which I think is exactly the same yellow stuff as stan’s and tesa.
Both times I used tape a couple of mm wider than the internal rim diameter and I really stretched it. I had the wheel in my truing stand and was holding the wheel with one hand and swinging off the tape with the other.
Prior to taping I wiped the rims clean with some decorators isopropyl wipes. However I then found he tape wouldn’t stick to it unless I went round and really wiped the residue off - then it stuck well.
Just overlapped about 10cm either side of the valve - and only went round the rim once.
I did then use a chunky plastic tyre lever end just to make sure the tape was really stuck down in the corners of the rim by the bead.
Maybe the issue is the Hope rims from what people have said.
For carbon rims I prefer Gorilla Clear Repair tape - peels off easily, doesn't leave a residue. I've heard of people trashing a carbon rim by pulling off cloth-backed tapes like Duck/Gorilla/gaffer.
As someone said, cloth-backed tapes absorb sealant, come unstuck and leave a sticky residue on the rim.
Kapton tape is the daddy. Just like Stan's, thin but tough and comes in loads of widths. For ghetto tubeless I revert to Gorilla because its thickness helps tyres seat better.
Always used Gorilla (25mm) but put a layer of black electrical tape down first; makes removal much easier as no residue on the rim bed. Does make it thick though, so tight tyres are very tight to fit the first time
I will never let black gorilla near a wheel again after the time I had removing it last time, horrendous stuff. Clear is good though.
Electric tape is good too though, couple of wraps is more than strong enough
thanks all, good helpful tips, I ordered some Kapton to try
Sorry but I've been using Gorilla tape for at least 4 years with no issues. Miles easier than faffing around with useless, over priced 'tubeless' tape. I was working full time in a workshop a couple of years ago and taped dozens of the bloody things with all kinds of rims and tapes. If your thumbs aren't numb you're not going tight enough.
Gorilla tape is effortless.
I will never let black gorilla near a wheel again after the time I had removing it last time, horrendous stuff.
I learned early on that you should line the rim with electrical tape first. That will prevent the nightmare of removing the adhesive from the rim.
The glue is pressure curring so it does need a tube (or air pressure at least) to stick it down.
Lots of tension does seem to help. Presumably as it's a circle the tension produces pressure.