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Looking at making a bike purchase and have heard a lot of good things about some of the current German brand offerings.
Was wondering if German brands are still up and coming or do the US brands still reign supreme?
What german brands you looking at??canyon?
The spec on the german bikes are far superior to the likes of the spesh bikes....
Looking for a general feeling really if that make sense??!!??
Things seemed to have moved on since my last purchase and want to make sure I am thinking along the right lines to get the best bang for my Bucks (or Euros or Pounds).
some German brands are very R&D oriented and others are buying factory bikes from China with great specs, you pay your money and takes your pick.
it seems to divide people in to placing their empahsis on the quality of the spec v the quality of the frame.
though I havent heard any bad words about the quality of any of the german brands.
just comparing a Stevens to a Canyon Id rather have the Stevens, but its a lot more money.
Ignore country of origin
Buy based on performance/fit/value for money/warranty/customer service etc. etc.
Are you trying to suggest canyon are knocking out generic chinese/taiwenise frames?
For me it is the other way around with Stevens and Canyon. Stevens bikes look generic while Canyon look like they have spent a lot of money on R&D. Generally I think as a whole the German bike brands have really upped the anti in the last few years. They were guilty of making copies of the big US brands in the past but have really found their own identity now.
http://www.falkenjagd-bikes.com/
http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/05/17/falkenjagd-titanium-shows-new-teleon-650b-hardtail/
Stevens I'd for me a more generic looking brand than Canyon.
Then there's Rose as the likes of Liteville.
A friend has just bought a Canyon Nerve it's a serious bike for sensible money. Looks good, lots of nice design touches on the frame and obviously amazing VFM.
When you look at the cost of a comparable specialized or some such it looks to me that the Germans are winning. Essentially any of the big bands now give you a made in Taiwan frame with a load of Japanese parts that are really made in China.
The warranty is also solid. My chums one had a fox fork CTD damper problem after the first ride out it was resolved quickly and without any fuss in less than a week. The only down side is a lack of a test ride and as I've not tested the last five bikes I've bought I don't see that as a biggie.
Remember it's not just about the spec level/looks of the bike - the geometry is rather important too.
I was very close to getting a Radon, amazing spec for the price and looked good, but it had a horribly steep head angle..
Thanks for the info, suggestions and ideas folks.
A couple of brands there that I had not really considered.
Have started a list and am currently drooling over websites.
IIRC, Focus were highly specced when Wiggle was carrying them a few years back. Are they still? That sort of gave me the impression that German bikes were speccing better than their counterparts elsewhere.
Following this thread had a look at the canyon site. If you are a big lad this looks a steal...
http://www.canyon.com/_en/outlet/article.html?o=A1023288
I was very close to getting a Radon, amazing spec for the price and looked good, but it had a horribly steep head angle..
Ditto but they have just released the Slide E2 with a 34 Fox 160 fork which has 17mm longer axle to crown height so should be about 67.3°
http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k1867/a86777/slide-150-e2.html?mfid=52
The Slide E1 will be release soon for approx £2,550
I'm still tempted by them but would probably get offset shock bushes
Liteville are incredible. Science fact.
Do we consider Cube and Merida German? Both claim to be designed in Germany and tend to sport the supposedly old style XC geometries on 120 or less travel, as far as the UK scene seems concerned, that it would seem are still favoured in Europe.
What about Giant (Taiwanese) and Scott (Swiss), not all about Germany and the US...
I think the easy excuse is that "Canyon are cheap because they're buying generic frames and sticking good bits on them", but that's bollocks. On-one do that, Canyon are significantly more innovative!
Essentially any of the big bands now give you a made in Taiwan frame with a load of Japanese parts that are really made in China.
The improved "VFM" with certain brands basically comes from their direct distribution model, where Specialized, Trek, etc are having to build retailer margin into their pricing...
I don't believe Specialized or Trek frames are significantly "Better" designed or constructed than Canyon, YT or Rose, it's a Direct marketing business model advantage.
If Specialized were to go over to Direct marketing and get rid of their Dealer network, they could probably match Canyon or YT's prices...
But then a strong Dealer network, offering face to face service is one of their major USP's...
If you can live without the support of a shop coved in Specialized logo's then Ze Germans may well be a good choice...
If you can live without the support of a shop coved in Specialized logo's then Ze Germans may well be a good choice...
Or more significantly if you're happy without the security blanket of UK selling regs and a physical place to go when something goes wrong then ze Germans are a good shout!
Duane... - Member
Remember it's not just about the spec level/looks of the bike - the geometry is rather important too.I was very close to getting a Radon, amazing spec for the price and looked good, but it had a horribly steep head angle..
You could have accused Canyon of that a few years ago, but their geometry isn't old any more
Or more significantly if you're happy without the security blanket of UK selling regs and a physical place to go when something goes wrong then ze Germans are a good shout!
UK or EU Regs?
(I thought the UK were EU harmonised on most things these days)...
And if so what's the major difference?
Obviously dealing with a Remote Vendor in a foreign country rather than a shop round the corner will make things much slower should the product fail, but are consumer rights in some way "Weaker" for EU as opposed to a UK consumers?
No idea, (there are differences IIRC) but it's significantly more ball ache to be returning things to Germany! Particularly when you get to frame/fork/bicycle sized things.
If I was buying a complete bike its hard to ignore the Canyons they look great.
However just bought a Turner 5 spot frame so that's likely to be my last purchase for a while
more ball ache to be returning things to Germany!
Hardly. 99% of the hassle is packing the thing up. The difference between writing UK or Germany on the address label is pretty minimal...
Well alright, more expensive then if we're being pedantic! Massively so in the case of large things like frames/forks/bikes.
...do the US brands still reign supreme?
Did they ever 'reign supreme'?
It all comes down to a significant cost saving Vs the significant but not un-managable Faff [U]if[/U] something should go wrong, I don't think your consumer rights are significantly reduced by choosing to buy from an EU vendor as opposed to a UK vendor are they really?
It's a relative thing, how often do you actually expect to darken the doorway of a Specialized dealer with problems, once your purchase is made?
I'd hope I never need to revisit the shop once I had my bike, but I understand this is a significant worry for a lot of people that buy shiney new bikes...
So like I said, if you're not so worried by immediate service from a local shop, and can accept a bit more downtime if there is a warrantee claim to process by post then Hooray for Ze Germans!
If not then God bless Corporate America and her strong after sales service commitment...
That's the basic deal...
Actually the Germans have better consumer rights than in the UK IMO. They have Gewähreleistung (basically warranty) of two years on any goods sold. They also have a two week cool off period after a purchase where you can return the goods without reason and get a refund.