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Yesterday, out enjoying the sun on our moutain bikes I thought I'd try a new track. On the OS map it's marked as 'Other route with public access' (basically, green balls). For those that might know the area, it's off Beddlestead Lane in Kent, heading towards Biggin Hill.
Having got about 100 metres onto the track we noticed a big silver 4x4 come tearing down the track towards us. It had three blokes in it dressed like survivalists. The one in the front passenger seat was holding what looked like an assault rifle, with the barrel pointing skywards out of the window. The driver did all the talking, telling us to clear off and saying that he was going to put wires across the tracks to throttle cyclists.
It was an odd incident. I'm pretty sure we had a right of way, but I wasn't about to force the issue. I was left wondering what to do. Report it to the police, Bromley Council's right of way officer, do nothing??
Any thoughts?
going to put wires across the tracks to throttle cyclists.
Sounds like a threat to me, report it.
Then again, it could be hot air, to impress his rambo mates?.
No offence to you OP but I'd be calling the Police and reporting the incident asap.
I'd say report it to someone. 'Who' is another matter. If they used threatening behaviour then try the Police. Other wise I'd go to the council to report them for denying access.
The assault rifle could have been an airsoft (BB) gun and they were just trying to get you away from their game.
Hmm what a bunch of tools. Best bet would have been to get reg number of 4x4, enquired if they were the land owner/agent and if so what access [b]was[/b] allowed fp etc then definitley report them for the threatening behaviour. Easy to say that now without guns/menacing people about tho.
Check with your local rights of way officer on the track in question. I got collared by a farmer once for trying to ride through his yard. Nothing aggressive, but I swore blind to him it was a bridleway and even went back another day with my map to prove it. As it happens it was a mistake on the map and it was (and should still have been ) a footpath. Mistakes are made.
That aside I do still think you should report it. Having two scars across my biceps from being ripped off a bike by bailing twine, I can testify that it is not a nice experience.
Get it reported. I reported a lad to the Calder council AND the local Police incase anyone experienced him again (guaranteed) and ended up planting the fella in question. (I was pushed/shoved and blocked- naturally I didn't rise as he was smaller and older than me)
That sounds like Norheads Lane, if it is I think you have every right to be there. I've been riding it for about 15 years although I must admit I do peel off it and ride the footpath that goes across to the next byway. I've never been stopped by anyone even on the footpath.
Report to the police immediately. Some bellends actually do this sort of stuff. It's irrelevant if your had right of way or not. Garrotting is not the accepted punishment for trespass.
You could have rolled two handgrenades through the drivers window
Thanks people. I would have pressed the matter yesterday but my wife was tugging me away (and I don't mean that in a smutty way).
Spot on with Norheads Lane rc200f8.
Yep, think I'll try the rights of way bloke as a first port of call.
I'm more concerned that someone can brandish what is or looks like a gun when confronting the public.
Having a weapon to hand is a very serious threat, even if it turned out to be an air rifle or airsoft etc.
it's marked as a white lane on my OS map no row marking at all.
Why wouldn't you report it to the police? Guys with guns threatening cyclists - I'd have phoned the police immediately and stressed the assault rifle part of it.
As above, report it to the police now, not just rights of way, they take a *very* dim view of people with guns making threats
Someone threatens to kill cyclists whilst his mate is brandishing a gun and you are unsure if this is something you should report to the police. Are people able to make any basic decisions themselves without consulting the internet?
OP what you have to remember is this person(s) may repeat/threaten numerous cyclists and if a pattern becomes evident the Police are more likely to take this seriously.
Reported to the Council. Police are the next call.
Hmmm. Pressure on my bladder. Do you think I should go for a pee? Any advice appreciated.
Just sit where you are and relax - good practice for when you get a bit older.
I would have gotten clear of the immediate incident, then reported it to the police there and then - couple of years ago some tool shot me with an air rifle as I was commuting into Glasgow along the Forth & Clyde canal. I called it in, and it was very gratifying to see the speed with which the police helicopter arrived overhead. Cops up here take a [i]very[/i] dim view of people waving weapons around in public - I can't imagine the police in Kent would be much different.
Thats just reminded me when I was a kid. An Asian lad was taking pot-shots out of his bedroom window and just missed me. It was in the days before mobile phones and I went straight to the front door and banged away- his Mother called the Police (on me)- however when the Police came and understood what was going on they stormed in en-mass and came out with the gun (hidden) and the lad received a caution 😀
I assume you noted his registration number. That and a report of what was said / done go to the Police. You keep a note of the reg, in case of any trail sabotage it may be of use. Pesonally i'd have called them there an then if a gun of any kind was on display in a public place.
Now reported to the police. We'll see what happens. If I'm never heard from again then thank you for your help.
Once I've established whether there is a definite right of way it'd be interesting to get a big group of us up there.
I called it in, and it was very gratifying to see the speed with which the police helicopter arrived overhead. Cops up here take a very dim view of people waving weapons around in public - I can't imagine the police in Kent would be much different
They do, I called the local police number because some fairly old blokes were in woodland behind the house shooting birds. Just expected a police Alegro to turn up, but all these men in blue overalls with dogs turned up and carted them off.
And a few years back I strayed off the path on my first Peaks ride and was confronted by a bloke with a shotgun, the barrel was locked and not broken like you'd expect if someone was on a footpath. Didn't do anything that time.
my family ownes a shit load of land, i bet you it wasnt there land, ring the police right now, they will go see the land owner, and i bet you it wolnt be them. mainly coz we all go shot guns not rifles and dont act like lower class people
there's plenty of pikeys up that way, you probably nearly caught them flytipping!!
Definitely one for the police. Serious offences being commited there even if its a bb gun
my family ownes a shit load of land, i bet you it wasnt there land, ring the police right now, they will go see the land owner, and i bet you it wolnt be them. mainly coz we all go shot guns not rifles and dont act like lower class people
Post of the day!
my family ownes a shit load of land, i bet you it wasnt there land, ring the police right now, they will go see the land owner, and i bet you it wolnt be them. mainly coz we all go shot guns not rifles and dont act like lower class people
Glad to see the money spent at Marlborough wasn't wasted.
my family ownes a shit load of land, i bet you it wasnt there land, ring the police right now, they will go see the land owner, and i bet you it wolnt be them. mainly coz we all go shot guns not rifles and dont act like lower class people
[img] http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQFgCxmBNw6MZQ_ykh_juJbJFVmD9oJqR5WLLVkrp8VbO3rc6B5WQ [/img]
my family ownes a shit load of land, i bet you it wasnt there land, ring the police right now, they will go see the land owner, and i bet you it wolnt be them. mainly coz we all go shot guns not rifles and dont act like lower class people
Post of the day!
Agreed.
Let us know the outcome (and chase the Police to do something!) - waving weapons at people is NOT acceptable.
dont act like lower class people
To be fair, you don't often hear 'GET ORF MOI LAND' shouted in council estates though, do you? It's often the 'landed' amongst us that have the biggest issue with public access.
GET ORF MOI LAND' shouted in council estates though,
that's because is not their land. Just because some one is on youre land it does not make it right to try and shoot at them.
report it for certain.plenty of idiots have strung wire across trails/put logs on descents e.t.c.
that's because is not their land. Just because some one is on youre land it does not make it right to try and shoot at them.
Agreed, of course. Unfortunately not always the view of shotgun toting landowners though; although less common these days, land disputes still represent a high proportion of non-urban firearms incidents.
Also, technically its not your land either, it all belongs to the Crown. You just happen to possess the right to look after it for free; the freehold deeds.
Also, technically its not your land either, it all belongs to the Crown. You just happen to possess the right to look after it for free; the freehold deeds.
yes and you only have the right to look after the top bit you only own the first 5 foot after that depth the soil belongs to some one else (mineral rights).
When some ****s dog rips apart some calf you spent untold hours keeping alive, suddenly trespassers become more annoying, shooting at trespassers is wrong, shooting there dogs is right (if there worrying, chasing riping apart animals at the time) Also a large number of people killed on farms are trespassing there.
Again agreed, obviously. Where I disagree with you is when you seem to assume that people with land are somehow more 'civilised' than those less fortunate. More to lose maybe, better manners, probably. But strip away the thin veneer of socialisation and the same animal is beneath. There are eejits, numpties and downright bad eggs in ALL strata of society, regardless of wealth or favour.
(I also like to hope there's plenty of decent people at all levels of society, although sometimes I do wonder)
Where I disagree with you is when you seem to assume that people with land are somehow more 'civilised' than those less fortunate
when did i say that?
Also a large number of people killed on farms are trespassing there.
How many people are killed whilst trespassing on farms? If it's more than one or two a year I'd be very surprised.
How many people are killed whilst trespassing on farms? If it's more than one or two a year I'd be very surprised.
two people have died on our farm in the last 10 years both of them shouldn't have been there , PRO TIP dont go climbing round bales there round and can roll, and weigh 1000kg.
Love it when a farmer empties a huge amount of slurry in a commonly used gate/access through his farm yard.
It used to happen on a farm in the Peaks (Cant remember its named now).
Also a large number of people killed on farms are trespassing there.
Gamekeepers and landowners do not shoot people, and they have absolutely no right to do so. They can shoot your dog if it's worrying animals as mentioned above.
ILMG, you said;
and dont act like lower class people
This is what I was referring to. If I misunderstood your meaning, then I am, of course, very sorry.
Gamekeepers and landowners do not shoot people,
They both do and have done, on occasion. The fact that they have no right to is not in dispute.
I cant believe that people think being threatened by three blokes with a gun is worthy of asking if the plods might be interested in.
Perhaps the streets of Kent are awash with gun toting gangsters, & this is quite the norm down there. 🙂
They both do and have done, on occasion.
Hardly ever.
And I suspect they wish they hadn't if they didn't have justification due to the legal ramifications.
Shooting a trespasser for merely trespassing is murder or attempted murder.
Shooting a poacher in self defense is not, although the police would still investigate it.
They both do and have done, on occasion. The fact that they have no right to is not in dispute.
I can't remember a single case. I don't suppose you have a link do you (post 1900)?
[url= http://http://nwhsa.redblackandgreen.net/convicted_gamekeepers.htm ]Linky linky[/url]
A really quick google found these. I'm obviously not saying that gamekeepers and landowners are better or worse than anyone else, just that they are human and in possession of firearms, that's all.
(and I'm not arguing for or against gun ownership, for the record)
Guns don't kill people: rappers do.
OP - did you get the license plate of the 4x4?
...I saw it on a documentary, on BBC 2...
A really quick google found these.
Did you read it?
Of course I did. In amongst the pleasant activities such as poisoning various wildlife, shooting birds of prey and having lax respect for ammunition, there is a chap who shot someone for trying to pinch his car (harsh, but I can sympathise) drink drivers etc. My point is, human, like the rest of us. (and in possession of firearms). Would you like to be spoonfed more data? Or shall we accept that landowners/gamekeepers et al are no better (or worse) than the rest of us?
Of course I did. In amongst the pleasant activities such as poisoning various wildlife, shooting birds of prey and having lax respect for ammunition, there is a chap who shot someone for trying to pinch his car (harsh, but I can sympathise) drink drivers etc. My point is, human, like the rest of us. (and in possession of firearms). Would you like to be spoonfed more data? Or shall we accept that landowners/gamekeepers et al are no better (or worse) than the rest of us?
So you've downgraded landowners shoot people to landowners are no better (or worse) than the rest of us?
Yeah. I see your point entirely now.
So you've downgraded landowners shoot people to landowners are no better (or worse) than the rest of us?
Yeah. I see your point entirely now.
My point, or issue has always been with the implication made by ILMG that landowners (someone else brought gamekeepers into the equation) are somehow better than the rest of us. The point I have been trying to make is that they are no better or worse than anyone else, that's all.
The Home Office have long admitted that Firearms owners are more law abiding than the general population, since any minor transgression can lead to the loss of their sport and/or livelihood.
Drink driving - licence gone, domestic violence - licence gone, drunk and disorderly -licence gone, common assault - licence gone
Think about if driving licences were scrutinised to that extent!
I would like to be spoonfed more data please.
I can completely see the argument that (legal) firearms owners are more law abiding than average, for the reasons you state as well as the fact that you are checked out before being given a licence. Is there any documented evidence? (sorry mcHamish, my turn for spoon-feeding now, you'll have to use your own google)
BTW McHamish, I'm not actually quite sure what we disagree on?
My only point was that I don't think the frequency in which landowners shoot people are as high as has been implied.
I'm not convinced that the people in the OP were gamekeepers or landowners, I've never seen a gamekeeper drive a big silver anything...mostly beaten up land rovers or a pick-up with a covered cage on the back for his dogs. Although I moved to the big smoke 10 years ago so things might have changed in the sticks.
v8ninety - Member
Gamekeepers and landowners do not shoot people,
They both do and have done, on occasion. The fact that they have no right to is not in dispute.
believe me if you did you would lose ur friends' in the shooting community, they dont like nut jobs.
I'm not convinced that the people in the OP were gamekeepers or landowners, I've never seen a gamekeeper drive a big silver anything...mostly beaten up land rovers or a pick-up with a covered cage on the back for his dogs. Although I moved to the big smoke 10 years ago so things might have changed in the sticks.
if it is big its always green 🙂
My only point was that I don't think the frequency in which landowners shoot people are as high as has been implied.
Didn't think that it was implied, other than people with guns tend to shoot people more often than people without guns, obviously. If I did imply that, then I apologise, it was not my intention.
believe me if you did you would lose ur friends' in the shooting community, they dont like nut jobs.
And hopefully also be in prison, able to make a whole new set of less fussy friends? Lol.
Totally irrelevant to the rest of the thread, but if they put wires across the track, how are they going to get their landrover down it?
Wynne i can only assumeyou are trolling? This happened yesterday and you are asking today? WTF is 999 for?
You should have been diallinga s soon as they were out of sight!!
the only experience ive ever had with people actually using guns for the wrong thing was when my dads friend was shot by a poacher, they had got him done several times and the police took away his guns, so he got one of a mate and killed my dads friend on his door step. was really sad 🙁
OP please keep us posted on this. I've ridden down that track countless times over the last 20 years or so, and always assumed it was a right of way (white road). Never had any trouble either mind but this is a worry.
Out of interest, was this late in the evening?
Poachers will often drive while hunting deer at night...they wait for a deer and then stick on the main beam on the headlights. The deer will stand there transfixed waiting for the poacher to shoot it.
I can't remember a single case. I don't suppose you have a link do you (post 1900)?
As kids we were shot at (and hit) by a farmer with a shotgun, while crossing his fields as a short cut home from school. We were being careful to avoid the crops and walking around the edge but he didn't care much. Friend had to pick lead out of his arse, but no-one went to the police as we knew we were not meant to be there and would have got a bigger kicking from parents if they found out!
id say go for another ride up there
No, I'm no troll. All reported now.
I am surprised that it's caused such heated discussion. I will keep yo posted when I hear anything back from the council or the police.
A while ago I did a few years of anthropolgy fieldwork which has maybe given me a more relaxed attitude to people waving guns around. I've also had some extremely poor responses from the police when reporting cycling related incidents. In hindsight you're absolutely right, I should have reported it immediately.
[quote>
Have to say after reading the summary of that report, farms seem a darn sight more dangerous for children of farm workers doing daft stuff than for people trespassing on farms.
"Fell fell from moving tractor - possibly trying to urinate through door. crushed by harrow"
With hindsight you should have remembered the registration plate and THEN reported it immediately! I'd hazard a guess they had no right to threaten you like that and even if it was an air-soft gun or whatever - report it. Sorry but I think you did it wrong and you should have been stronger. I had a driver deliberately try knock me off my bike - I didn't go home and post on a forum asking for advice - I remembered his number, called the Police and he's been charged - end of. I'm smiling he isn't.
"Fell fell from moving tractor - possibly trying to urinate through door. crushed by harrow"
10 billion ways to die, chose one, and **** me that's a original way to die.
i as a child almost drowned in used engine oil
Wynne YGM
I've also had some extremely poor responses from the police when reporting cycling related incidents
You'll likely find you get a far better response reporting a gun related incident!
dont act like lower class peopleTo be fair, you don't often hear 'GET ORF MOI LAND' shouted in council estates though, do you? It's often the 'landed' amongst us that have the biggest issue with public access.
It's the middle classes who tend not to get involved. Both the upper and lower classes spend most of their time wandering around huge estates with guns....
Nobodys done this yet 😆
I'm still traumatised 😯