You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
I feel a bit awkward saying this but...
Our revenue from advertising is shrinking as it is for every other media brand - even though we get over 1.5 million people here every month. With numbers like that you'd think the money would pour in but it's actually getting harder to find. Journalism like Hannah's piece here is very expensive to produce. Hannah has been working for two months on this and has clocked up time we can measure in weeks to produce it.
Work like this is now increasingly reliant on direct reader revenues through our memberships. So I appeal to you that if you think work like this is worthwhile then consider backing us up and signing up. £1.99 for a month is all it takes. Or buy one of our t-shirts - or do both. We promise to deliver your t-shirt promptly, our customer service is excellent and nothing we sell is on a slow boat from Peru.
Support us if you can afford it. If you can't that's cool. As you were.
Anyway, back to the matter at hand.
Work like this is now increasingly reliant on direct reader revenues through our memberships. So I appeal to you that if you think work like this is worthwhile then consider backing us up and signing up. £1.99 for a month is all it takes. Or buy one of our t-shirts – or do both. We promise to deliver your t-shirt promptly, our customer service is excellent and nothing we sell is on a slow boat from Peru.
couldn't work out if the link to the STW hoodie and Tees under the article was meant to be a joke or not... 🙂
Hannah and STW team thanks for the article, you have restored my faith In STW! FWIW I’m glad sick didn’t respond and embrace their right to reply. I think that would’ve ruined the article as it would’ve been soured with lies and bullshit. The PB article proves this.
Fair play Mark. This place deserves to keep going. I’m piss poor and still manage to find money for a sub. It’s worth it just to support the forum. The actual content is just a nice bonus 😉
Cough up ya tight bastards 😀
Thanks Mark, that's an excellent point. Journalism like that doesn't come free and people deserve to be paid for their work. At only £20 for a year, this is well worth it. I've just subscribed. I feel a bit guilty that I hadn't done it sooner.
(I was a paper mag subscriber yonks ago for a few years but realised I was being drawn towards the dark side... I'm now riding muddy stuff for fun again!)
Mark, I’m happy to support STW further. But like I said a million times before I would need some commitment to the forum and the website from you guys. I value this website and it’s content but with things like the attitude towards the change in classifieds I’m not sure why I should. I already subscribe after all. But would happily pay a more for a usable website and classifieds back to how it was!
Anyway back to sick...
This deserves more attention. Bravo honourablegeorge
Indeed, well done honourablegeorge (and the other 2)!
Well they seem to have no issue speaking to people who won't give them shit....
Customer service makes or breaks a brand.
Ask Apple... average products superb service
Chipps / Hannah / Mark
Do you think this might subtly change the way you report press releases from other start-ups?
Don't get me wrong - I love reading about new and weird bike stuff (please don't stop reporting it) but a bit more background and balance would be great so we can judge for ourselves if they're really bringing something new or just enthusiastic and inexperienced with a couple of prototypes being tested on the buying public.
It would also be fairer on the likes of Stanton / Curtis / Shand / Cotic etc who are all trying to do it for real with actual UK content. BTW, good job in recent coverage of those folks.
When those of you who placed an order eventually get your refund then just order direct from alibaba (link on last page)
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
And is that the same Pierre that had the duct tape and rattle can death trap singlespeed from mid 2000s SSUK at Mach?....
So I thankfully didn't order a sick bike when it came out.
but based on that article I have just subscribed to the mag as a group that will write something that balanced does deserve support.
cheers stw
And is that the same Pierre that had the duct tape and rattle can death trap singlespeed from mid 2000s SSUK at Mach?….
Yes - hi! That death trap is no longer, I've got a couple of nicer bikes now. 😉
Hands up if you believe they went to Asia!
Anyone?
Anyone?
Could it be a typo and they actually went to Asda?
From funkrodent’s comment on the article:
Interesting, been following from afar. My two penn’orth is that they went into this all brazen and big b*ll*cks, with no real clue regarding the multiple complexities of running a manufacturing/sales/fulfilment business of this type (as alluded to by Hannah). And now they are way out of their depth.
As to why they’re still taking orders? Cashflow. They need money coming in to deal with the backlog of shite that they have. Robbing Peter to pay Paul and hoping to god that they can get it sorted before the whole house comes crashing down. Not exactly a Ponzi, but not too far removed..
This is pretty much what my take on this sorry episode is.
Add into the mix a bunch of millennials who had started to believe their own bullshit whilst in actual fact not knowing their arse from their elbow and you get this. ‘Likes’ on the internet do not equate to cash in the bank.
Doubling down on the ‘attitude’ when it all starts to unravel just means more aggro for them.
However, after the initial “Oh shit, dude, we’ve like actually got to pay for the stock now” moment should have come a “We’re in big-ish trouble here, but we could make this a whole lot worse if we carry on regardless, so let’s grow up a bit and hold our hands up” moment.
Carrying on taking orders on new stuff to have the cash to satisfy the existing orders or refunds is wrongful trading and company directors (I know, soooooo uncool to have them) can end up in prison for that ‘one last sale and we’ll be able to pay the rent and have another three months to turn this around’ temptation.
In summary. Bunch of muppets got out of their depth. Kept doubling down but losing. Could have been a few hundred quid out of pocket, most likely will end up in quite a bit of trouble. I’d recommend ‘Rogue Trader’ (the Nick Leeson story) as a bit of required viewing for the Sick Lads. His basic mistake was to be a strutting wise boy who couldn’t admit to a relatively small mistake and kept rolling the dice in the hope of salvaging the situation.
bunch of millennials
Are they? Everything I've ever read from them screams mid forties man child.
Frames ready 2 months ago, awaiting payment to ship to the UK.
Might be waiting a while.
Frames were ready 2 months ago. I am waiting for payment to send them to the UK
So, not even in transit yet.
just leaving this here:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Custom-titanium-full-suspension-bicycle-frame_60750072359.html
I wonder if it'd be quicker to order from alibaba
would it be unethical to buy a load and start trading as SICK bicycles, what with the lack of protection on the name...
People should get their CC refunds, and then get in touch with the frame builder to buy a single frame.
Cuts out the useless middlemen.
That or buy it from alibaba, but I feel sorry for the guys in, was it Peru? Who've got a whole bunch of frames they've spent the manhours building, but haven't been paid for.
Carrying on taking orders on new stuff to have the cash to satisfy the existing orders or refunds is wrongful trading and company directors (I know, soooooo uncool to have them) can end up in prison for that ‘one last sale and we’ll be able to pay the rent and have another three months to turn this around’ temptation.
I imagine their image would go down well amongst the other prisoners, if it came to that.
Take payment for goods. Don't pay supplier. Don't deliver goods. ****s the money gone?
I read the PB article and my thoughts after 4 lines were - deceitful man children who need to grow the **** up; that didn't change the further I got.
Frames ready 2 months ago, awaiting payment to ship to the UK.
Suggests much larger problems than logistics. If these are preorder, they're already paid for, but Sick can't/ won't pay the supplier to ship them to the UK.
So, again - where did the money go? And are the payments for new orders being used to cover delivery of previous orders (which is the very definition of a Ponzi scheme)?
Ponzi scheme
I've said it before and I'll say it again after reading this...
Frames ready 2 months ago, awaiting payment to ship to the UK.
The plot sickens.
And are the payments for new orders being used to cover delivery of previous orders (which is the very definition of a Ponzi scheme)?
I would say that was extremely likely.
The other problem with being a ‘bit of a Jack the Lad, might play a bit fast and loose with other people’s money, but has a heart of gold’ thing is that eventually they end up defrauding someone who has the experience, means and motivation to sort out their own debt collection arrangements.
Two wrongs don’t make a right, but that’s the risk you run....
Can't we buy those frames direct from manufacturer? 😂
Another sick on alibaba
Ponzi scheme
This is Sick we’re talking about, they’re super cool.
It’s obviously a Fonzi scheme.
It's inconceivable that no-one has gone to Trading Standards about these chancers. Surely they've met the fraud threshold by now?
Do you have to have skin in the game to go to TS? Or can anyone do it?
I can see those Marino frames being in an on one price blow out at some point In the not too distant future.
BTW not saying that would be a bad thing.
I think anyone can report suspected fraud.
skin in the game
Delete your account.
Premier Icon
tomhowardSubscriber
Do you have to have skin in the game to go to TS? Or can anyone do it?
Anyone can do it, same as if you walked into a shop that you believed was dodgy
Looks like it's more than one batch
https://m.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=213188&pagenum=1#commentid6730182
I’m going to buy all those frames and rebrand them as the feeling better now bike company. So customers have no frames and the builders have no money. It’s amazing how two people can screw over so many and still not simply hold their hands up and just apologise properly. Marino have just proven that Sick have been lying regarding status of frames.
Just a technicality, but I think the Sick Bikes fiasco is more akin to a pyramid selling scheme than a Ponzi.
IIRC one of the main hooks of a true Ponzi is the promise of massive returns on an initially small investment, the massive returns of the first few ‘investors’ being paid for by the small initial payments of a growing number of people who have heard about an ‘amazing opportunity’. It all goes tickety boo, of course, until no more investors can be found quick enough and someone doesn’t get paid. Then it collapses just as quickly as it grew.
From the small amount of case law I studied (and I may well be wrong here), but wasn’t one of the attempted defence arguments at one of the first trials to do with this sort of thing a ‘plausibility’ one? I.e. the returns were so apparently ridiculous that, actually, investors must have known it was in some way crooked and so were also culpable(?)
The Sick Bikes thing is more like an accidentally constructed pyramid selling scheme. I say ‘accidentally’ because I doubt that was the initial aim, but a combination of testosterone and childishness meant that the moment to hold their hands up went by and they kept taking more pre-orders to be able to buy the frames for the earlier ones. “Just one more and we’ll be fine, you’ve just got to hold your nerve”....
I love that from Marino, Jordan and James (the pointless customer service chap) told me the frames were in customs, bloody odd way to spell Peru that.
Well this is all the most marvellous entertainment, absolutely splendid, but I really must be off to my bed.
If they're not allowed to be called Sick any more, and assuming they survive more than the next week or so, How about Spanner Patch Bikes?
I think if I was the Sick guys reading this & PB tonight i'd be thinking "that's it - it's over" there is no way any company could ever return from such negativity to ever salvage any shred of respect or decency.
Trouble is a lot of people ARE going to lose money though - it's been spent on fancy ti cranks and crap 3 spoke wheels.
Rusty, you're assuming that they actually paid their bills with Spengle and Cane Creek...
call me stupid but where can i see that Marino FB post in its orignal form? I'll be buggered if I can see it anywhere
Haven't seen Spengle post anything for about 10 pages...
Is he liking the coverage I wonder...?
Ive just had an email back from Marino, Tim and Jordan told him they havent paid because they are having problems with Paypal. Shysters, conmen, liars call em what you like. How they will be able to show their faces on a trail anywhere baffles me
Weren’t they due to be at the Malverns later in the year?
From the small amount of case law I studied (and I may well be wrong here), but wasn’t one of the attempted defence arguments at one of the first trials to do with this sort of thing a ‘plausibility’ one? I.e. the returns were so apparently ridiculous that, actually, investors must have known it was in some way crooked and so were also culpable(?)
The Sick Bikes thing is more like an accidentally constructed pyramid selling scheme. I say ‘accidentally’ because I doubt that was the initial aim, but a combination of testosterone and childishness meant that the moment to hold their hands up went by and they kept taking more pre-orders to be able to buy the frames for the earlier ones. “Just one more and we’ll be fine, you’ve just got to hold your nerve”….
Some of the Madoff investors said exatly that - it was obvious Bernie was stealing from somebody, we just didn't think it was us.
You see thievery like this Sick bikes fiasco and it seems incomprehensible on the face of it, like what type of dead-eyed sociopath would construct such a ruse? But reality is like you say - just normal people getting out of their depth and things fall apart, the centre cannot hold.
I feel sorry for Marino, they’ve really pulled the wool over his eyes.
Indeed, like so many others it sounds like they have been fleeced
As another Worthing local I keep half expecting to see them at the Steyning trails or somewhere else around here. That is assuming they actually ride bikes of course. If I do what should I ask?
I think Marino will be okay - at least he still has the frames, peel the Shick decals off and sell them on Ebay/Stw classified. It's the end customer that is going to be shafted big style.
Do keep up, Rusty. I'm going to go out on a lamb and guess you've missed the low quality punnage.
the whole situation seemed like a matrix management nightmare.
How can you implement matrix management when you only have two employees? Do they change hats and talk in different voices so they can pretend to have inter-departmental discussions?
There’s 4 directors, plus folk helping out, like James in ‘customer service’...
It's good to see you shoulder the blame Davosaurusrex.
Do keep up, Rusty. I’m going to go out on a lamb and guess you’ve missed the low quality punnage.
Sick definitely need to build a more close knit relationship with their customer base. Communication to date has been woolly at best. The Ramifications for them are going to be harsh.
I can’t believe the shear effrontery of them, someone needs to put pen to paper
Those Marino frames will be pretty good, no doubt. Worth keeping an eye out for when they pop up being sold direct.
As another Worthing local I keep half expecting to see them at the Steyning trails or somewhere else around here. That is assuming they actually ride bikes of course. If I do what should I ask?
After gathering some details on here in advance and letting it be known that they are there I would suggest:
“Is the engine running in that van/car?”
those XACD frames on alibaba actually look alright ...... unlike the mock ups on sicks website which looked pretty horrific
Spengle is a they not a him, there are 47 of us, with a 60%/40% female/male split in the business.
We've met and spoken with Jordan over the last few months - we were also a year late delivery our first wheels and it was less than fun for everyone involved - we know their pain as a business, and can empathise with their customers.
would we still work with them, yes absolutely no doubt. running a business is hard, growing a business I really hard - and self financing is an absolute killer.
They had, nay have, responsibilities to each other, to suppliers, and most importantly to customers - and they screwed up how they dealt with their growth - but they won't be the firsts and wont be the last.
How they move forward will be of interest, we hope it's with caution, and humility - an with someone more customer-focussed taking control of their customer relations.
Iv'e already contacted Marino and offered to purchase the two frames I ordered direct from him if (or when) Sick don't pay him.
Jordan told me on the 15th of May he was " fighting to shore and dispatch the frames" this was from the order that Marino had built, the one he still has pending payment.
Liars and shysters
Some clarification re James.
May I ask you please stop saying I work for Sick Bikes. Or ‘help out’
The relationship I have with Sick Bikes is they are a client of mine:
One of the businesses I own is a remote inbox triage service. A bit like a virtual assistant
Sick have used my company for a while.
I do not work for them.
I've just been catching up on events and it makes for pretty brutal reading!
Did they honestly think that PB interview was going to be their big comeback? How many times have they been given the chance to publicly 'set the record straight'? I initially thought that article was a big cop-out on Pinkbike's part but as it turns out, they didn't have to add anything. The absolute avalanche of bollards that comes straight from the horses mouth is damning enough.
Their fanboys are nowhere to be seen in the comment section. It's a massacre.
I can't even imagine, in my wildest dreams, how they could salvage anything from this. Surely they're dead and buried now?
And before anyone accuses me of being a 'hater' who wants to see a small company fail, when I bought a Spooky, a Brooklyn, an S&M, a Charge, a Cotic, a Geometron etc.. etc.. they all took my money and provided a quality product in return. You know, the fundamental stuff.
EDIT:
How they move forward will be of interest, we hope it’s with caution, and humility
A bit of humility would have went a long way over a year ago. Way too late for that now.
an another note does anybody know the surname of the csutomer services guy? I know hes James, but I find it odd that they mention customer services and how jordan shouldnt do it in the PB article but they never mention James. Am I being a tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist by saying the article was written by JAMES Smurthwaite ?
Anyway I've sent the PB article writer this
"Hi James
In light of the recent article/advertorial/poor excuses with Sick Bicycles and their version of events (lies in anybody elses language) would you consider sending out a list of questions about our experiences dealing with them? Just to give some sort of balance to the lies and mis-information that they have provided you with in the article?
I only ask as I ordered my frames 16th Jan 2019, was told delivery circa 1st March,then 15th March told they were in customs and Jordan was "fighting to shore and dispatch the frames" oddly enough I found out yesterday that the builder of those frames still has them because Sick hasnt paid him.
Maybe you should ask Marino Bikes as well, because Sick have also lied to him and left him out of pocket. I have a list of emails since 16th Jan with a set of replies that would make you question everything they have said to you in that "article"
I'm more than happy to compile them into a timeline for you to enjoy. I'll be honest some of the emails make me look like a whiney **** but I have been constantly lied to by Sick Bicycles so I'm not ashamed to put it out there.
Hopefully you'll follow up on the article with the voices of the customers
Cheers
Chris "
would we still work with them, yes absolutely no doubt
Nice to hear you got paid
Great article Hannah.
I can't believe any reputable business would want to work with these man children again after all this.
I've got a funny brain and will be instantly put off by a product if they are associated with something or someone I don't like. It's a shame as I'm drawn to weird and different products and I do like my carbon wheels. I get called stubborn quite a lot at work 🙂
First comment I've made on this shower of shite, but I can't help feeling that I'm not the only one that does this.
I skimmed through the PB "article" as I got bored of the guff that was being spouted. I doubt we'll ever find out where the money went, all people can do is have an educated guess.
You lot do know the the sheep breed is Merino don’t you? 🤔
Spengle is a they not a him, there are 47 of us, with a 60%/40% female/male split in the business.
Sorry folks. No intention to be rude [/dannybaker]. I thought it was a single person not a company responding. My bad.
It's probably already been noted but their "we're back.." Instagram post has comments disabled. Presumably a mistake there...
Another +1 For great article by Hannah and a fair point by Mark, too. I need a few t-shirts come to think of it
As another Worthing local I keep half expecting to see them at the Steyning trails or somewhere else around here. That is assuming they actually ride bikes of course. If I do what should I ask?
I pretty much cycle past their tattoo place daily...
I'll let you all know when a big shipping container turns up...!
DrP
Don't think it's the same james, james smurthwaite is (was?) editor at Dirt, which seems a bit of a fall from grace to be penning such a tug job of a piece like that.
Also, when the pinkbike advertorial went live i'm sure it was titled something like "a lot of people wanted to see us fail" but now it's just about responding to angry folk. Did PB realise they went a bit far?
Spengle, thanks for joining in here. It's brave for a brand to dive in to the bear pit that bike fora can be!
I like your stuff, even though it's not really for me. It's quirky, niche, different. All good things. Yes, people think your wheels are odd, some don't like the looks, but no one thinks you're a bad bunch of people.
From a business reputation point of view, a read of this, and the assorted PB commentary on the topic should surely give you cause for concern.
Jesus christ and i thought i had problems. I feel sorry for all involved.
just normal people getting out of their depth and things fall apart, the centre cannot hold.
Next thing you know you're arranging to have your wife kidnapped and someone winds up getting fed in to a woodchipper.
That pb article is just a rehash of what they (sick) were telling people 6 weeks ago wasn't it?. Pb need to have a good look at themselves for publishing that crap.
Could be worse, it could be 48 articles a day on the EWS.
May I ask you please stop saying I work for Sick Bikes. Or ‘help out’
The relationship I have with Sick Bikes is they are a client of mine:
One of the businesses I own is a remote inbox triage service. A bit like a virtual assistant
Sick have used my company for a while.
I do not work for them.
While I can understand him trying to separate himself from this shitshow. He is/was the point of contact, came on here in his own time to defend them, and signed his emails to their customers James, Customer Service, Sick.
He even gets mentioned in mailouts as part of the team.
It’s important for us to communicate to you, we’re not going away anytime soon.
We never take your support for granted.
Jordan, Tim, Zam, Lee & James.
At this point the precise mechanics over how he gets paid (and I'm glad someone is) is pretty moot.
Don’t think it’s the same james
It's not. Though it would have been one way of explaining that fine piece of investigative journalism.